Lol DW I wasnt
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UU Victim of the Week! (Week Twenty-Seven: Contrary Serperior)
- Thread starter CoolStoryBrobat
- Start date
- Status
PHYSICALLY DEFENSIVE SABLEYE!!!!11111
Sableye @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Taunt
- Foul Play
Let the calcs explain:
Lum:
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Haxorus Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 45-54 (14.8 - 17.7%) -- possible 6HKO
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Haxorus Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 136-162 (44.7 - 53.2%) -- 31.3% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Mold Breaker burned Haxorus Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 68-81 (22.3 - 26.6%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker burned Haxorus Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 102-120 (33.5 - 39.4%) -- 19.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Mold Breaker burned Haxorus Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 135-160 (44.4 - 52.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Sableye can only check Adamant Lum Haxorus, it can only switch on Poison Jab, burn up Lum and eat up Dragon Claw, then next burn and eat up burned Dragon Claw, then recover, and when opponent DDs/SD:
+1 (Hax) 0- Atk Sableye Foul Play vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Haxorus: 306-361 (104 - 122.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Life Orb:
252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Haxorus Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 147-174 (48.3 - 57.2%) -- 43.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker burned Haxorus Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 88-105 (28.9 - 34.5%) -- 99.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker burned Haxorus Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 133-156 (43.7 - 51.3%) -- 8.6% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker burned Haxorus Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 175-208 (57.5 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Even if rocks are up, factoring leftovers, you can survive the combo of EQ + Burned D-Claw. However Sableye clearly can't come in on Dragon Claw
Tl;dr Sableye counters any Jolly set, but for the Adamant sets, it can only check them, for Lum it can only switch on Poison Jab, for Life Orb it can switch on anything but Dragon Claw. It can OHKO Haxorus at +1 or more, and it 2HKOs with no boosts.
So Sableye is a counter for jolly sets and a check for adamant. Leave it to you csb to decide
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Where was Dragon Claw listed on the Haxorus set I posted?can't believe nobody did this but
PHYSICALLY DEFENSIVE SABLEYE!!!!11111
Sableye @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Taunt
- Foul Play
Let the calcs explain:
Lum:
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Haxorus Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 45-54 (14.8 - 17.7%) -- possible 6HKO
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Haxorus Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 136-162 (44.7 - 53.2%) -- 31.3% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Mold Breaker burned Haxorus Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 68-81 (22.3 - 26.6%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker burned Haxorus Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 102-120 (33.5 - 39.4%) -- 19.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Mold Breaker burned Haxorus Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 135-160 (44.4 - 52.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Sableye can only check Adamant Lum Haxorus, it can only switch on Poison Jab, burn up Lum and eat up Dragon Claw, then next burn and eat up burned Dragon Claw, then recover, and when opponent DDs/SD:
+1 (Hax) 0- Atk Sableye Foul Play vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Haxorus: 306-361 (104 - 122.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Life Orb:
252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Haxorus Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 147-174 (48.3 - 57.2%) -- 43.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker burned Haxorus Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 88-105 (28.9 - 34.5%) -- 99.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker burned Haxorus Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 133-156 (43.7 - 51.3%) -- 8.6% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker burned Haxorus Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 175-208 (57.5 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Even if rocks are up, factoring leftovers, you can survive the combo of EQ + Burned D-Claw. However Sableye clearly can't come in on Dragon Claw
Tl;dr Sableye counters any Jolly set, but for the Adamant sets, it can only check them, for Lum it can only switch on Poison Jab, for Life Orb it can switch on anything but Dragon Claw. It can OHKO Haxorus at +1 or more, and it 2HKOs with no boosts.
So Sableye is a counter for jolly sets and a check for adamant. Leave it to you csb to decide
Fuck I really thought Dragon Claw, Outrage, EQ and Poison Jab is almost impossible to counter
I'll edit something in this post later >.>
EDIT: Ok I got something
ALL HAIL BASED TOGETIC
Togetic @ Kebia Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
- Dazzling Gleam / Defog / Baton Pass
- Counter
- Roost
- Thunder wave / Defog
This is like the best check to Poison Jab variants. (Btw counters non-poison jab sd variants)
Comes in on anything but Poison Jab, even DD
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Haxorus Poison Jab vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Kebia Berry Togetic: 126-149 (40.2 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Not entirely sure but think Counter OHKOs back
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Haxorus Poison Jab vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Kebia Berry Togetic: 164-194 (52.3 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Definitely sure counter OHKOs back
Togetic also has some viable uses, spreading paralysis and defogging hazard, or slow baton pass, it also has decent power with Dazzling Gleam, it also check a LOT of mons in UU, almost all physical fighting types, dragons, almost all ground types, etc. etc.
I'll edit something in this post later >.>
EDIT: Ok I got something
ALL HAIL BASED TOGETIC
Togetic @ Kebia Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
- Dazzling Gleam / Defog / Baton Pass
- Counter
- Roost
- Thunder wave / Defog
This is like the best check to Poison Jab variants. (Btw counters non-poison jab sd variants)
Comes in on anything but Poison Jab, even DD
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Haxorus Poison Jab vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Kebia Berry Togetic: 126-149 (40.2 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Not entirely sure but think Counter OHKOs back
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Haxorus Poison Jab vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Kebia Berry Togetic: 164-194 (52.3 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Definitely sure counter OHKOs back
Togetic also has some viable uses, spreading paralysis and defogging hazard, or slow baton pass, it also has decent power with Dazzling Gleam, it also check a LOT of mons in UU, almost all physical fighting types, dragons, almost all ground types, etc. etc.
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Alright, top 3 checks and counters for Dragon Dance Haxorus have been chosen (in no specific order):
Top 3 counters:
/---/
Forretress - Bluwing
Carbink - hilarious
Top 3 checks:
Hydreigon - Calloflochie
Hippowdon - Kitten Milk
Granbull - Swamp Link
My apologies Swamp Link because you did list this as a counter, and I was about to plug it in initially as a Counter but the point about being 2HKOed by the rare Adamant LO Poison Jab after Rocks on the switch-in still kinda applies, however specific it may be. Sorry brah. I saw a few other posts listed describing Counters, but I kinda...don't really want to put Kebia Berry Togetic up here. No offense Professional2341 :[
Moving onto next week's Victim, a good old pal who's been around since last gen and hasn't gained a whole ton this gen, but still has one or two more tricks to work with up its sleeve this meta:
Set name: Life Orb Shaymin
name: Life Orb
move 1: Seed Flare
move 2: Earth Power
move 3: Psychic / Dazzling Gleam / Hidden Power Fire
move 4: Synthesis / Rest
ability: Natural Cure
item: Life Orb
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Timid / Modest
OP will be updated, knock yourselves out in the meantime
Top 3 counters:
/---/
Forretress - Bluwing
Carbink - hilarious
Top 3 checks:
Hydreigon - Calloflochie
Hippowdon - Kitten Milk
Granbull - Swamp Link
My apologies Swamp Link because you did list this as a counter, and I was about to plug it in initially as a Counter but the point about being 2HKOed by the rare Adamant LO Poison Jab after Rocks on the switch-in still kinda applies, however specific it may be. Sorry brah. I saw a few other posts listed describing Counters, but I kinda...don't really want to put Kebia Berry Togetic up here. No offense Professional2341 :[
Moving onto next week's Victim, a good old pal who's been around since last gen and hasn't gained a whole ton this gen, but still has one or two more tricks to work with up its sleeve this meta:
Set name: Life Orb Shaymin
name: Life Orb
move 1: Seed Flare
move 2: Earth Power
move 3: Psychic / Dazzling Gleam / Hidden Power Fire
move 4: Synthesis / Rest
ability: Natural Cure
item: Life Orb
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Timid / Modest
OP will be updated, knock yourselves out in the meantime
Gimme that SpDef Registeel, shouting it back to my ol' fren ScarfedGaryBusey Rip in peas fren
Registeel @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Toxic
- Seismic Toss
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Clear Body means Seed Flare can't cause a drop so yeah basically the best counter you're gonna get since Blissey can actually get smashed by Seed Flare drops and everything else gets stomped by coverage. Plenty of checks like Mega Aero, but that's gay and I want to have the only counter to Shaymin hehe bwoi. Oh so you just Toxic Stall it since it can't 3HKO you so Rest talking is infinite vs Shaymin until it crits you but if it crits you Shaymin's only counter is that big forfeit button bop.
Registeel @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Toxic
- Seismic Toss
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Clear Body means Seed Flare can't cause a drop so yeah basically the best counter you're gonna get since Blissey can actually get smashed by Seed Flare drops and everything else gets stomped by coverage. Plenty of checks like Mega Aero, but that's gay and I want to have the only counter to Shaymin hehe bwoi. Oh so you just Toxic Stall it since it can't 3HKO you so Rest talking is infinite vs Shaymin until it crits you but if it crits you Shaymin's only counter is that big forfeit button bop.
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Registeel: 117-138 (32.1 - 37.9%) -- 0.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Seed Flare vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Registeel: 57-68 (15.6 - 18.6%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Seed Flare vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Registeel: 57-68 (15.6 - 18.6%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery
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Nominating Togetic as a counter
Togetic @ Eviolite
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 200 Def / 60 SpD
Calm Nature
- Defog
- Fire Blast
- Nasty Plot / Baton Pass / Dazzling Gleam
- Roost
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Seed Flare vs. 252 HP / 60+ SpD Eviolite Togetic: 58-70 (18.4 - 22.2%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Psychic vs. 252 HP / 60+ SpD Eviolite Togetic: 58-70 (18.4 - 22.2%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
Hax:
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Seed Flare vs. -2 252 HP / 60+ SpD Eviolite Togetic: 117-138 (37.2 - 43.9%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Togetic:
0 SpA Togetic Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Shaymin: 132-156 (38.7 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
So, not as good as Registeel, but a reliable counter. Since you are slow you have slow roosts which means you still resist Seed Flare.
So Togetic is god, immune to Earthpower, resistant to Seed Flare, can 2HKO counting LO damage, Roost on it's FACE, while Psychic and Air Slash basically do poop damage. Oh and you might as well defog vs. shaymin LOL
Roost, Defog, and Fire Blast are mandatory, while the last move can be either a slow Baton Pass (nice momentum for team), NP for power, or even Dazzling Gleam to screw up dark types.
Enjoy :]
Togetic @ Eviolite
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 200 Def / 60 SpD
Calm Nature
- Defog
- Fire Blast
- Nasty Plot / Baton Pass / Dazzling Gleam
- Roost
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Seed Flare vs. 252 HP / 60+ SpD Eviolite Togetic: 58-70 (18.4 - 22.2%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Psychic vs. 252 HP / 60+ SpD Eviolite Togetic: 58-70 (18.4 - 22.2%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
Hax:
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Seed Flare vs. -2 252 HP / 60+ SpD Eviolite Togetic: 117-138 (37.2 - 43.9%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Togetic:
0 SpA Togetic Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Shaymin: 132-156 (38.7 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
So, not as good as Registeel, but a reliable counter. Since you are slow you have slow roosts which means you still resist Seed Flare.
So Togetic is god, immune to Earthpower, resistant to Seed Flare, can 2HKO counting LO damage, Roost on it's FACE, while Psychic and Air Slash basically do poop damage. Oh and you might as well defog vs. shaymin LOL
Roost, Defog, and Fire Blast are mandatory, while the last move can be either a slow Baton Pass (nice momentum for team), NP for power, or even Dazzling Gleam to screw up dark types.
Enjoy :]
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It's cool, bro.
Crobat @ Black Sludge
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Defog
- Roost
This is a check.
Some people like to run more HP with less Attack, but I prefer my bats to not hit like complete wimps, so it uses max Attack. 176 Speed Jolly outruns Alakazam, the rest goes in HP. Moves are simple enough, Brave Bird is reasonably strong STAB, U-turn keeps up the momentum, Defog is hazard control since Crobat is a good Pokemon to fit it on, although you can run Taunt there quite well if you already have hazard removal. And, of course, Roost keeps it healthy. Kind of overshadowed by Mega Aero lately, but Crobat's much better to check the Fighting-types and Grass-types in the tier.
252 Atk Crobat Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Shaymin: 306-362 (89.4 - 105.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Psychic vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Crobat: 257-304 (77.6 - 91.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
So, Crobat is basically guaranteed to KO Shaymin after Stealth Rock or a round of LO, and it can switch into any attack from Shaymin at least once, although it is KOed by Psychic on the switch if Stealth Rock is up. Still, it can switch into the main attack, Seed Flare, outspeed, and KO, a great check.
Crobat @ Black Sludge
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Defog
- Roost
This is a check.
Some people like to run more HP with less Attack, but I prefer my bats to not hit like complete wimps, so it uses max Attack. 176 Speed Jolly outruns Alakazam, the rest goes in HP. Moves are simple enough, Brave Bird is reasonably strong STAB, U-turn keeps up the momentum, Defog is hazard control since Crobat is a good Pokemon to fit it on, although you can run Taunt there quite well if you already have hazard removal. And, of course, Roost keeps it healthy. Kind of overshadowed by Mega Aero lately, but Crobat's much better to check the Fighting-types and Grass-types in the tier.
252 Atk Crobat Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Shaymin: 306-362 (89.4 - 105.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Psychic vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Crobat: 257-304 (77.6 - 91.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
So, Crobat is basically guaranteed to KO Shaymin after Stealth Rock or a round of LO, and it can switch into any attack from Shaymin at least once, although it is KOed by Psychic on the switch if Stealth Rock is up. Still, it can switch into the main attack, Seed Flare, outspeed, and KO, a great check.
So I'm just going to choose the obvious check here, Assault Vest Escavalier.
Escavalier @ Assault Vest
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Megahorn
- Drill Run
- Knock Off
Escavalier can switch into all of Shaymins attacks with ease besides HP Fire, (which I am assuming is the third slash for a reason). It is one of the few bulky Pokemon that can outlast Shaymin's attacks even after a Seed Flare SpD drop, again assuming Shaymin does not carry HP Fire. If this Shaymin does carry HP Fire, Escavalier can just barely (if Timid) tank a HP Fire coupled Stealth Rocks and switching into an Earth Power. If Seed Flare gets a SpD drop or it switches into the HP Fire it is obviously dead.
For other uses, while I haven't used it myself, on paper it seems to have quite a bit of fun with most defensive teams, countering Blissey, Slowbro, and Aromatisse. It can catch fire types on the switch and can tank special attacks nicely. Don't laugh at me for suggesting an Assault Vest as if I recall correctly, that is its standard set in RU.
Here are some juicy calcs:
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 182-218 (52.9 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 69-82 (20 - 23.8%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Earth Power vs. -2 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 136-161 (39.5 - 46.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Escavalier @ Assault Vest
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Megahorn
- Drill Run
- Knock Off
Escavalier can switch into all of Shaymins attacks with ease besides HP Fire, (which I am assuming is the third slash for a reason). It is one of the few bulky Pokemon that can outlast Shaymin's attacks even after a Seed Flare SpD drop, again assuming Shaymin does not carry HP Fire. If this Shaymin does carry HP Fire, Escavalier can just barely (if Timid) tank a HP Fire coupled Stealth Rocks and switching into an Earth Power. If Seed Flare gets a SpD drop or it switches into the HP Fire it is obviously dead.
For other uses, while I haven't used it myself, on paper it seems to have quite a bit of fun with most defensive teams, countering Blissey, Slowbro, and Aromatisse. It can catch fire types on the switch and can tank special attacks nicely. Don't laugh at me for suggesting an Assault Vest as if I recall correctly, that is its standard set in RU.
Here are some juicy calcs:
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 182-218 (52.9 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 69-82 (20 - 23.8%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Earth Power vs. -2 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 136-161 (39.5 - 46.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
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Goodra as Counter
Goodra @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sap Sipper
252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Dragon Tail
Goodra avoids the possible Hax from Seed Flare due to Sap Sipper. Draco Meteor for STAB, it out damages Dragon Pulse over 2 turns. Fire blast hits Steels and stuff like Shaymin a/o SpA drop, thunderbolt hits Empoleon, and is 100% accurate when you need it, Dragon Tail phases and is useful vs stuff like Volcarona, who has been unleashed upon UU. I'll let the calcs speak for themselves on this one.
252+ SpA Life Orb Shaymin Dazzljng Gleam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 73-88 (19 - 22.9%) -- possible 5HKO
LEL nice coverage Shaymin
252 SpA+ Goodra Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Shaymin: 236-278 (69 - 81.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Also remember as for Lochie's Registeel the SpD drops will not occur for Goodra. GL to all other Victim of the Week competitors.
Goodra @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sap Sipper
252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Dragon Tail
Goodra avoids the possible Hax from Seed Flare due to Sap Sipper. Draco Meteor for STAB, it out damages Dragon Pulse over 2 turns. Fire blast hits Steels and stuff like Shaymin a/o SpA drop, thunderbolt hits Empoleon, and is 100% accurate when you need it, Dragon Tail phases and is useful vs stuff like Volcarona, who has been unleashed upon UU. I'll let the calcs speak for themselves on this one.
252+ SpA Life Orb Shaymin Dazzljng Gleam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 73-88 (19 - 22.9%) -- possible 5HKO
LEL nice coverage Shaymin
252 SpA+ Goodra Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Shaymin: 236-278 (69 - 81.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Also remember as for Lochie's Registeel the SpD drops will not occur for Goodra. GL to all other Victim of the Week competitors.
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Amoongus as check
Amoongus @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpDef
Calm Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Giga Drain
- Spore
- Foul Play / Hidden Power Fire / Synthesis
252+ SpA Life Orb Shaymin Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Amoonguss: 195-231 (45.1 - 53.4%) -- 91% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
4 SpA Amoonguss Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Shaymin: 170-204 (49.8 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Has regen can check multiple times if you switch in Psychic/SpDef drops, is all.
Amoongus @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpDef
Calm Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Giga Drain
- Spore
- Foul Play / Hidden Power Fire / Synthesis
252+ SpA Life Orb Shaymin Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Amoonguss: 195-231 (45.1 - 53.4%) -- 91% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
4 SpA Amoonguss Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Shaymin: 170-204 (49.8 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Has regen can check multiple times if you switch in Psychic/SpDef drops, is all.
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Scarftom-H as a check
Rotom-Heat @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
252 Spa / 252 Spe / 4 SpDef
Timid/Modest Nature
- Overheat
- Volt Switch
- Trick
- Will-O-Wisp
While this thing technically fits the definition of a counter in the OP (Can switch in on anything and kill it before it dies) if this is the only way your team has to deal with Shaymin you are in a bit of a pickle when they switch out then kill you when you next switch in.
Overheat OHKOs, scarf lets you outspeed, and can switch into any move and live.
252+ SpA Life Orb Shaymin Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Rotom-H: 110-130 (45.6 - 53.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Rotom-H is also a good pokemon with nice resistances for offensive teams with the ability to disrupt defensive teams with trick and wow.
Also for those playing along at home tornadus is a pretty neat check to shaymin idk if you guys wanted to use that one.
Rotom-Heat @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
252 Spa / 252 Spe / 4 SpDef
Timid/Modest Nature
- Overheat
- Volt Switch
- Trick
- Will-O-Wisp
While this thing technically fits the definition of a counter in the OP (Can switch in on anything and kill it before it dies) if this is the only way your team has to deal with Shaymin you are in a bit of a pickle when they switch out then kill you when you next switch in.
Overheat OHKOs, scarf lets you outspeed, and can switch into any move and live.
252+ SpA Life Orb Shaymin Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Rotom-H: 110-130 (45.6 - 53.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Rotom-H is also a good pokemon with nice resistances for offensive teams with the ability to disrupt defensive teams with trick and wow.
Also for those playing along at home tornadus is a pretty neat check to shaymin idk if you guys wanted to use that one.
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Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
Evs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
- Softboiled
- Stealth Rock / Wish
So Blissey is the most sturdy and the most reliable specially defensive pokemon in uu at the moment just because off it's ridicoulus hp. Blissey is a counter to Shaymin because it can pp stall it even after two drops, it can toxic stall it and hit it with seismic toss, it can also tank hits proceed to wish and pass it to something else that can tank a hit, but will be at full health again because off Blisseys insane hp stat. Blissey can also provide your team with stealth rock and therefore makes it an excellent supporting pokemon in the uu metagame.
Some calcs:
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Seed Flare vs. 0 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 125-148 (19.2 - 22.7%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Seed Flare vs. -2 0 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 250-294 (38.4 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Seed Flare vs. -4 0 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 372-438 (57.1 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
that's at -4 sdef.. to beat Blissey you have to be extremely lucky by hitting every seed flare as well as getting drops very regularly to even have a chance of beating Blissey, if Shaymin is toxiced by this point it won't win.
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Scarftini as an offensive Check
Victini @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk, 4 SpD, 252 Spe
Jolly/Adamant Nature
-V Create
-Bolt Strike
-U turn
-Trick
Although Victini cannot take more than one Earth Power, it can take on pretty much every other move Shaymin throws at it (although not repeatedly), and in return, it can blow Shaymin into pieces with V-Create, if the opponent does not switch it out ofc, or it can nuke the switchin.
Jolly is the preferred nature as it outspeeds slower scarfers and Haxorus at +1, but adamant is for a little more nuking power if you really don't care about opposing scarfers as much.
Calcs on mah phone, again .-.
Shaymin's Earth Power does 62.4 - 73.9% while its Seed Flare does 30.7% - 36.6%. The rest of its moves do complete ass damage.
Victini's V-create is a solid OHKO; that should be a no-brainer. U-turn does 37.5 - 44.5%. All calcs are from Jolly nature
Victini @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk, 4 SpD, 252 Spe
Jolly/Adamant Nature
-V Create
-Bolt Strike
-U turn
-Trick
Although Victini cannot take more than one Earth Power, it can take on pretty much every other move Shaymin throws at it (although not repeatedly), and in return, it can blow Shaymin into pieces with V-Create, if the opponent does not switch it out ofc, or it can nuke the switchin.
Jolly is the preferred nature as it outspeeds slower scarfers and Haxorus at +1, but adamant is for a little more nuking power if you really don't care about opposing scarfers as much.
Calcs on mah phone, again .-.
Shaymin's Earth Power does 62.4 - 73.9% while its Seed Flare does 30.7% - 36.6%. The rest of its moves do complete ass damage.
Victini's V-create is a solid OHKO; that should be a no-brainer. U-turn does 37.5 - 44.5%. All calcs are from Jolly nature
Batdragon as a check
Noivern @ Choice Specs
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest / Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Air Slash / Hurricane
- Flamethrower
- Boomburst / Switcheroo
252+ SpA Life Orb Shaymin Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Noivern: 250-294 (80.3 - 94.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Noivern: 226-268 (72.6 - 86.1%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Noivern Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Shaymin: 330-390 (96.7 - 114.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Noivern Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Shaymin: 300-354 (87.9 - 103.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Noivern Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Shaymin: 440-518 (129 - 151.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
LO recoil is op, rocks are op
Try not to get gleamed on the switch.
Frisk is to item scout (always useful especially with mons like Shaymin that could be holding a variety of items), Infiltrator is to rek subs/screens.
Modest over Timid because there's not much Timid is outspeeding other than Zam and Raikou and Noivern kinda likes the power but Timid is always there as an option.
Hurricane over Air Slash if you like power, Switcheroo over Boomburst if you like crippling walls/clerics/Crocunes/Curselaxes etc.
Noivern @ Choice Specs
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest / Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Air Slash / Hurricane
- Flamethrower
- Boomburst / Switcheroo
252+ SpA Life Orb Shaymin Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Noivern: 250-294 (80.3 - 94.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Noivern: 226-268 (72.6 - 86.1%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Noivern Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Shaymin: 330-390 (96.7 - 114.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Noivern Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Shaymin: 300-354 (87.9 - 103.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Noivern Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Shaymin: 440-518 (129 - 151.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
LO recoil is op, rocks are op
Try not to get gleamed on the switch.
Frisk is to item scout (always useful especially with mons like Shaymin that could be holding a variety of items), Infiltrator is to rek subs/screens.
Modest over Timid because there's not much Timid is outspeeding other than Zam and Raikou and Noivern kinda likes the power but Timid is always there as an option.
Hurricane over Air Slash if you like power, Switcheroo over Boomburst if you like crippling walls/clerics/Crocunes/Curselaxes etc.
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Did you just change your reservation?
Changed it back :] didn't know that was against the rules (or maybe I forgot to read)
Hopping on the Regi HypeTrain. Regice for counter.
Regice @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 148 SpA / 160 SpD
Modest Nature
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast
- Substitute
Essentially the same argument that Lochie put forward. Clear Drop prevents stat body, so that helps him deal with Shaymin. Some fun calculations.
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Seed Flare vs. 252 HP / 160 SpD Regice: 107-126 (29.3 - 34.6%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 160 SpD Regice: 73-86 (20 - 23.6%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
148+ SpA Regice Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Shaymin: 246-290 (72.1 - 85%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
It's a solid counter to Shaymin. Metagame-wise, it has a humongous Special Defense, which allows it to switch in on most moves bar Fire-type ones.
Regice @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 148 SpA / 160 SpD
Modest Nature
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast
- Substitute
Essentially the same argument that Lochie put forward. Clear Drop prevents stat body, so that helps him deal with Shaymin. Some fun calculations.
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Seed Flare vs. 252 HP / 160 SpD Regice: 107-126 (29.3 - 34.6%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 160 SpD Regice: 73-86 (20 - 23.6%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
148+ SpA Regice Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Shaymin: 246-290 (72.1 - 85%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
It's a solid counter to Shaymin. Metagame-wise, it has a humongous Special Defense, which allows it to switch in on most moves bar Fire-type ones.
Bouffalant as Counter
Bouffalant @ Leftovers
Ability: Sap Sipper
Happiness: 0
Careful Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 164 SpD / 92 Spe
- Swords Dance
- Frustration
- Substitute
- Earthquake
SHaymin can't use its strongest attack against this thing. It's forced to use coverage and with the invested bulk, Bouffalant takes those attacks very well. With Timid nature you have a really good shot at substitutes eating up Earth Powers. Against Modest Shaymin there's still a chance of the substitutes surviving, but it's not as high. Frustration is a 3hko, while Earth power is not a 3hko. Frustration can turn into a 2hko with life orb recoil and rolls.
It's capable of setting up substitutes against a lot of defensive pokemon like forretress, alomomala, aromatisse, amoongus (without foul play), slowbro (without cm), porygon and a few other mons.
I Like Hydreigon as an offensive check to Life orb shaymin.
Hydreigon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast
- U-turn
*This is by NO means a counter at all!
Anyway Hydreigon nicely resists/ is immune to all of shaymin's coverage moves bar Dazzling Gleam thanks to his awesome resistances, and can 2hko with the scarf set. If they do not carry the dazzling gleam as coverage congratulations you hard wall it! I would suggest scouting first however you can before blindly switching it in because that is foolish. Other then that Its a pretty simple entry, nothing really too in depth or complicated about it at all. BTW heres why you want to be careful with its coverage.
And here is the hydreigon Calcs
Hydreigon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast
- U-turn
*This is by NO means a counter at all!
Anyway Hydreigon nicely resists/ is immune to all of shaymin's coverage moves bar Dazzling Gleam thanks to his awesome resistances, and can 2hko with the scarf set. If they do not carry the dazzling gleam as coverage congratulations you hard wall it! I would suggest scouting first however you can before blindly switching it in because that is foolish. Other then that Its a pretty simple entry, nothing really too in depth or complicated about it at all. BTW heres why you want to be careful with its coverage.
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 411-489 (126.4 - 150.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Seed Flare vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 116-136 (35.6 - 41.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Seed Flare vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 116-136 (35.6 - 41.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
And here is the hydreigon Calcs
252 SpA Hydreigon Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Shaymin: 234-276 (68.6 - 80.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Shaymin: 205-243 (60.1 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Shaymin: 205-243 (60.1 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I should have updated this yesterday but I folded, lol. Thanks for all your contributions this week, I liked the effort made this time around, actually made it a lot more challenging than usual deciding winners. Anyway, winners for this week! (In no specific order):
Top 3 counters:
Registeel - Calloflochie
Blissey - Bluwing
Goodra - Sage of the 6
Top 3 checks:
Escavalier - mezomi
Rotom-Heat - Billtodamax
Crobat - Swamp Link
OP and scoreboard will be updated accordingly. In the meantime while we're talking about the 600 BST legends, what would you use to deal with this?!:
Set name: Mixed Victini
name: Mixed
move 1: V-create
move 2: Bolt Strike
move 3: Grass Knot
move 4: Psychic / Dazzling Gleam
ability: Victory Star
item: Expert Belt / Life Orb
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Naive / Hasty
It was a pain to refrain from slashing Choice Band and Trick in there on top of the given options, and an even bigger pain to not put in U-turn, but I don't want the idea of something being impractically "uncounterable" in a vaccuum to overrun peoples' posts, so I'll take the low road and keep it simple.
Top 3 counters:
Registeel - Calloflochie
Blissey - Bluwing
Goodra - Sage of the 6
Top 3 checks:
Escavalier - mezomi
Rotom-Heat - Billtodamax
Crobat - Swamp Link
OP and scoreboard will be updated accordingly. In the meantime while we're talking about the 600 BST legends, what would you use to deal with this?!:
Set name: Mixed Victini
name: Mixed
move 1: V-create
move 2: Bolt Strike
move 3: Grass Knot
move 4: Psychic / Dazzling Gleam
ability: Victory Star
item: Expert Belt / Life Orb
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Naive / Hasty
It was a pain to refrain from slashing Choice Band and Trick in there on top of the given options, and an even bigger pain to not put in U-turn, but I don't want the idea of something being impractically "uncounterable" in a vaccuum to overrun peoples' posts, so I'll take the low road and keep it simple.
@CSB: This may be cocky, but if Togetic doesn't deserve Counter (which imo it does) then it at least deserves check. Much better than Crobat or Esca, even Rotom-H.
Well w/e just for next time, you don't have to change anyone.
Anyways reserving Arcanine
Well w/e just for next time, you don't have to change anyone.
Anyways reserving Arcanine
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- Status