Venusaur [4F]*

franky

aka pimpdaddyfranky, aka frankydelaghetto, aka F, aka ef
is a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Status: Done (Deleted first write-up and wrote a new full revamp to reflect hg/ss, venusaur is huge)

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/venusaur

__________________________________________________________

[SET]
name: Life Orb Physical
move 1: Swords Dance / Synthesis
move 2: Sleep Powder
move 3: Power Whip
move 4: Return / Earthquake
item: Life Orb
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Venusaur is one of the most effective Swords Dance users in UU because it has access to Sleep Powder, which allows Venusaur to use Sword Dance after incapacitating a foe. In addition to this, many physical walls in the UU tier are weak to Grass-type moves; therefore, Venusaur can catch several walls off guard after a single boost. After one use, Venusaur’s mediocre Attack reaches 526, which is enough to hurt plenty of things in UU.</p>

<p>The easiest way to slip in Swords Dance is to force prominent Water-types such as Milotic, Slowbro, and Azumarill to switch out. On the predicted switch out, Venusaur can either use Sleep Powder to place a counter to sleep or use Swords Dance to scout out the opponent’s next switch-in. Synthesis could be used over Swords Dance, as Venusaur can act as a defensive backbone on many teams while providing good solid damage with a Life Orb boost. If Venusaur plans to stick around to cushion Electric-, Water-, and Fighting-type hits, Synthesis is a definitely good alternative over Swords Dance.</p>

<p>Venusaur's STAB move is Power Whip, and after a single boost, it hits anything that doesn’t resist it incredibly hard. The final two slots depend on what Venusaur needs to hit. Return is the best way to deal damage to the Flying-types that plague UU, as they resist Venusaur's primary STAB move. However, if Steel-types are more important to hit, Earthquake would be the better option as Venusaur usually 2HKOs both Registeel and Steelix (who normally invest their EVs into Special Defense).</p>

<p>Life Orb allows Venusaur to strike as hard as possible. Venusaur could settle for Leftovers over Life Orb in order to gain some health while dishing out damage.</p>

<p>Defensively, Venusaur works great with a sturdy Rock-type like Regirock to combat with faster Flying-types such as Moltres and Swellow. Furthermore, Regirock provides Stealth Rock, which helps Venusaur sweep in the long run of the match.</p>

<p>Venusaur functions well on offensive teams which involves both Stealth Rock and Spikes. Omastar is a great partner, as it can provide both Stealth Rock and Spikes for Venusaur. A more offensive partner for Venusaur is Kabutops because it can take on faster Flying-types such as Moltres and Swellow pretty well. If Venusaur sticks to Return over Earthquake, Steel-types will be problematic. Hitmonlee is an excellent partner because it has the ability Limber to come in safely on Registeel’s Thunder Wave and deliver the OHKO with Close Combat.</p>

[SET]
name: Support
move 1: Sleep Powder
move 2: Leech Seed / Synthesis
move 3: Energy Ball
move 4: Sludge Bomb
item: Leftovers
nature: Calm / Bold
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Venusaur is pretty difficult to take down because it has Synthesis or Leech Seed to constantly heal off hits, as well as access to Sleep Powder to place a counter to sleep. Combine this with its nifty resistances to Electric-, Water-, and, Fighting-type moves, and Venusaur makes a very durable wall.</p>

<p>Venusaur has several support moves to help any team out. Sleep Powder is an excellent support move to place an opponent to sleep. This allows Venusaur to subsequently use Leech Seed to annoy the opponent or use a free turn to switch in something appropriate. Synthesis can be used over Leech Seed to heal off damage consistently. The final two moves provide the best damage Venusaur can give thanks to STAB. Energy Ball hits Water-types for super effective damage, while Sludge Bomb hits Grass-types who attempt to block Leech Seed.</p>

<p>A Bold nature with the EVs shifted from Special Defense to Defense could be an alternate option if Venusaur wants to focus on taking physical Fighting-type attacks.</p>

<p>This set will normally fit under a balanced style of play, as opposed to an offensive style of play; therefore, pairing Venusaur with Milotic can help it survive the entire match. Milotic is an excellent partner with Venusaur, as Milotic can take most Fire-type threats who threaten Venusaur. Because Moltres might be a bit difficult to take down because it might score a couple of flinches with Air Slash, Chansey is an alternate option to take on Moltres. At times Milotic is overwhelmed by Nasty Plot Houndoom and Swords Dance Blaziken. Equipping Milotic with Choice Scarf is an excellent way to catch these threats off guard, as they are normally tough to counter.</p>

<p>Since this set will irritate the opponent, it will eventually force them to switch out, and entry hazards are a great way to take advantage of this. Omastar is an excellent partner because it can provide both Spikes and Stealth Rock on the same moveset. As an added bonus, Omastar also takes Ice- and Fire-type hits directed at Venusaur. They complement each other as Omastar hates Toxic Spikes on the field, and Venusaur can absorb Toxic Spikes thanks to its Poison-typing.</p>

[SET]
name: Life Orb Special
move 1: Sludge Bomb
move 2: Leaf Storm
move 3: Hidden Power Ground / Synthesis
move 4: Sleep Powder
item: Life Orb
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set could be considered a surprise on Venusaur’s part as the most common switch-ins to Venusaur are usually physical walls. Venusaur boasts a good Special Attack stat with Life Orb equipped; coupled with its good bulk from both ends, it can be a versatile sweeper without any set-up.</p>

<p>Venusaur really has poor type coverage; as such, it can only space in three attacks to provide the best possible coverage, leaving the last slot to Sleep Powder to manage special walls. Sludge Bomb and Leaf Storm are Venusaur’s primary STAB moves, while Hidden Power Ground is essential in order to hit Registeel – a common special wall in the UU tier. However, if Chansey poses a huge problem for the team, Venusaur can run Synthesis over Hidden Power Ground to improve the chances of beating Chansey. Sleep Powder helps place counters in deep slumbers, allowing Venusaur to hit them while they are asleep.</p>

<p>Omastar is an excellent partner with Venusaur because it has both Stealth Rock and Spikes in its arsenal to help Venusaur sweep. Stealth Rock and Spikes work great for Life Orb Venusaur, as they can help beat Chansey – its primary counter. Venusaur’s Leaf Storm deals 26.83% - 31.83% to standard Chansey, while Sludge Bomb deals 18.41% - 21.68%. This means if three layers of Spikes and Stealth Rock are down on the field, Venusaur can place Chansey to sleep while using Sludge Bomb once or twice, and then it can deliver the finishing blow with Leaf Storm. All in all, Stealth Rock and Spikes will help increase the chance of defeating Chansey.</p>

<p>Since this set is specially inclined, Chansey and Registeel can handle this set especially if Sleep Clause is already in effect. Hitmonlee can fend off Chansey and Registeel for the most part, as it can come in on Thunder Wave thanks to Limber and scare it off with Close Combat.</p>

[SET]
name: Mix Choice Scarf
move 1: Sludge Bomb
move 2: Leaf Storm
move 3: Earthquake / Power Whip
move 4: Sleep Powder
item: Choice Scarf
nature: Modest
evs: 56 HP / 72 Atk / 164 SpA / 216 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set aims to increase Venusaur's above-average Speed with a Choice Scarf boost. Choice Scarf Venusaur sits firmly at 380 Speed, allowing it to outpace beneficial base 120 Speed Pokemon, most importantly, Alakazam. Venusaur has enough time to come in on many attacks thanks to its excellent typing, making it a reliable Choice Scarf user on any team.</p>

<p>Much like the previous set, Venusaur can only space in three attacks, leaving the final slot for Sleep Powder. Sludge Bomb and Leaf Storm are Venusaur’s obligatory STAB moves. The third slot is purely physically based, as it prevents special walls like Registeel and Chansey from getting an easy switch-in. Earthquake acts as a safety blanket check to Calm Mind Raikou, as well as Registeel who attempt to come in on both Sludge Bomb and Leaf Storm. However, if Chansey is more important to hit, Power Whip is an alternate option in order to grab the 2HKO (with Stealth Rock down). Sleep Powder may stick out like a sore thumb on a Choice Scarf set, but it’s always a nice way to place the opponent to sleep if Venusaur is in a sticky situation.</p>

<p>From a defensive standpoint, Omastar works great with Venusaur as it provides Stealth Rock in order to grab the 2HKO on Chansey. However, from an offensive standpoint, Choice Band Dugtrio will help remove Chansey and Registeel early in the match. Most Chansey or Registeel will lean towards using Thunder Wave on Venusaur to render its Choice Scarf useless; as such, this allows Dugtrio to come in easier to deliver the OHKO with Earthquake.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Leaf Storm
move 2: Sludge Bomb
move 3: Hidden Power Ground
move 4: Sleep Powder
item: Choice Specs
nature: Modest / Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Venusaur is a natural candidate for Choice Specs due to its high Special Attack stat. With a Choice Specs equipped, Venusaur’s Special Attack will exponentially increase to 492 or 448, depending on the nature of choice. Venusaur’s true niche lies within the ability to cushion hits from the foe, as well as maintaining an offensive threat on many unprepared teams, making it a solid choice on any team.</p>

<p>A boosted STAB Leaf Storm is absolutely powerful, and not many can switch in to it. Sludge Bomb rounds off the set, as it helps deal with opposing Venusaur attempting to come in on Leaf Storm. It also deals with Moltres and special defensive Altaria trying to resist Leaf Storm. Hidden Power Ground allows Venusaur to hit Registeel, who otherwise walls Venusaur's STAB moves, for super effective damage. Sleep Powder sets Venusaur apart from its fellow Choice Specs user Sceptile, as it helps place a potential counter to sleep.</p>

<p>To illustrate the power of a Modest nature boosted Leaf Storm, here are some calculations:</p>

<ul class= “damage_calculation”>
<li>+1 Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Chansey - 34.17% - 40.25%</li>
<li>+1 Leaf Storm vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Swellow - 100%</li>
<li>+1 Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Weezing - 62.87% - 73.95%</li>
</ul>

<p>According to the damage calculations, Stealth Rock is absolutely required to grab certain OHKOs on Pokemon. Venusaur also appreciates paralysis support, so it can use Modest nature over Timid nature to provide as much damage as possible. Registeel fits in with this particular set because it can provide paralysis support with Thunder Wave and set up Stealth Rock as well. However, if the large Fire-type weakness is making you nervous, Chansey is a good alternative for setting up Stealth Rock and proving paralysis support.</p>

[SET]
name: Mixed Attacker
move 1: Sludge Bomb
move 2: Power Whip
move 3: Sleep Powder
move 4: Synthesis / Leech Seed
item: Life Orb
nature: Mild
evs: 64 HP / 164 Atk / 96 SpA /184 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Venusaur adopts a tried and true method of sweeping with this set: cripple the foe with status and attack while it's immobilized. Sludge Bomb and Power Whip are your two STAB attacking options. Sleep Powder provides Venusaur with the safety net it and its teammates enjoy. Synthesis keeps Venusaur healthy from Life Orb recoil while also refreshing it after weathering a few blows. Leech Seed is another recovery option available to Venusaur that becomes extremely effective with this set; this Venusaur can 2HKO Clefable and deal huge blows to opposing Grass-types, the most common counters to Leech Seed.</p>

<p>The EV spread is designed to milk as much out of Venusaur as possible. The Attack EVs guarentee 2HKOs on Slowbro and Chansey with Power Whip, while the Special Attack EVs grant Venusaur a clean OHKO on Sceptile and other Grass-types who may try to wall this set. Alternatively, this set can sacrifice the HP and four Attack EVs and maximize Speed, keeping the likes of Feraligatr, Blaziken, and other Venusaur from outpacing Venusaur.</p>

<p>Unlike many other sets, this Venusaur will have troubles against Substitute + Calm Mind Raikou. Therefore, it is recommended that you either pair Venusaur up with a Pokemon who is able to do this job or substitute Power Whip for Earthquake. Pokemon that would satisfy the first option include threats such as Encore Clefable or Donphan. Clefable can come in on the turn Raikou starts setting up and Encore it to lock it into a useless Calm Mind or HP draining Substitute, while Donphan can choose to either threaten with Earthquake or phaze with Roar.</p>

<p>Although Sleep Powder does give it problems, Cresselia walls this set effectively, thanks to its huge defenses. Calm Mind makes Power Whip Venusaur's only effective attack to combat Cresselia with, although boosted STAB Psychics will be ending Venusaur in short order. Therefore, most people pair Venusaur up with Dark-types who are capable of overtaking Cresselia. Absol sees the most use as a Cresselia counter, and its immunity to Psychic attacks makes it an even better choice to pair up with Venusaur. Swords Dance and Night Slash or Sucker Punch easily puts huge dents in the new UU addition, mitigating its effectiveness for the rest of the battle.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, both Venusaur and Absol hate status, meaning Aromatherapy support is very much enjoyed. Clefable, Miltank, and Altaria are all capable of providing this service to your team, but for type synergy with both Absol and Venusaur, Altaria is probably your best choice. Altaria resists Fighting- and Fire-type attacks, although it does share a common Ice-type weakness with Venusaur. As always, entry hazards are also appreciated.</p>

[Team Options]

<p>On most sets, Venusaur has a tough time with faster Flying-types such as Moltres and Swellow. Defensively, Regirock makes an excellent partner as it can take on these Flying-type threats while setting up Stealth Rock as an added bonus to help Venusaur sweep. Another notable Rock-type that meshes well with Venusaur is Omastar because it provides both Spikes and Stealth Rock to help Venusaur sweep.</p>

<p>For the specially-based sets, Venusaur will attract Chansey and Registeel; as such, Hitmonlee makes a great offensive partner alongside Venusaur. Hitmonlee can make a safe switch in for the most part thanks to its ability Limber to avoid paralysis. Choice Band Dugtrio also works in a similar fashion in terms of avoiding paralysis, thanks to its Ground-typing, allowing it to make a safe switch in on Registeel and Chansey to deliver the OHKO with Earthquake.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>There are several options that weren’t included in the main analysis. Firstly, Venusaur can run a set with Substitute / Swords Dance / Power Whip / Return or Earthquake to bring its HP down to activate Overgrow. Venusaur can also run a SubSeed set, but its average Speed makes it completely outclassed by Sceptile. Venusaur could also run Roar on the support set to prevent Pokemon like Leafeon from having an easy Baton Pass.</p>

[EVs]

<p>The EV spreads are listed with each set. Choices regarding EV spreads are entirely dependent on the role you want it to play (defensive annoyer, fast sleeper, special tank, etc.) and whether it needs to sponge physical or special attacks.</p>

[Opinion]

<p>The amount of sets Venusaur has definitely speaks volume of its versatility. It can often play multiple roles, allowing Venusaur to become unpredictable once it's brought out in the match. As an added bonus, Venusaur's part Poison-typing allows it to absorb Toxic Spikes from the opponent, making it an excellent team player. All in all, Venusaur is a valuable addition on any team.</p>

[Counters]

<p>For the most part, Venusaur’s counters depend on what set it is running. The physically inclined set counters depend on what Venusaur is using to complement Power Whip. If Venusaur lacks Earthquake, Registeel can counter Venusaur pretty well, especially if Sleep Clause is in effect. However if Venusaur lacks Return, a defensive Moltres is the safest switch in to Venusaur. For the specially inclined sets, Chansey and Registeel are the best checks to Venusaur.</p>
 

supermarth64

Here I stand in the light of day
is a Contributor Alumnus
You have font tags in the Overgrow set, and also you have HP Rock twice in the attacks. Also, it should be 30 HP, not just 30.
 
Has the Growth + Overgrow set been tested? Grass is a piss-poor sweeping type, because it is resisted by everything. There are so many more counters to the set than Moltres and Registeel - consider the common Yanmega, Chansey, Altaria, and Roserade. Unlike SubPetaya Empoleon, which this set seems to be based off of, Venusaur doesn't have 2 or 3 solid counters that, when removed, will allow it to sweep effortlessly late game. Everything that isn't super frail or Grass weak is a check to this Venusaur. Things like Nidoqueen, Hitmontop, and Miltank, which run no SpD EVs, are not OHKO'd by +1 Overgrow Energy Ball - of course there's no hope of ever taking out Clefable, Uxie, or Umbreon.
 

franky

aka pimpdaddyfranky, aka frankydelaghetto, aka F, aka ef
is a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Has the Growth + Overgrow set been tested? Grass is a piss-poor sweeping type, because it is resisted by everything. There are so many more counters to the set than Moltres and Registeel - consider the common Yanmega, Chansey, Altaria, and Roserade. Unlike SubPetaya Empoleon, which this set seems to be based off of, Venusaur doesn't have 2 or 3 solid counters that, when removed, will allow it to sweep effortlessly late game. Everything that isn't super frail or Grass weak is a check to this Venusaur. Things like Nidoqueen, Hitmontop, and Miltank, which run no SpD EVs, are not OHKO'd by +1 Overgrow Energy Ball - of course there's no hope of ever taking out Clefable, Uxie, or Umbreon.
In all honesty, tested it 2-3 times. Worked once. I just considered Moltres and Registeel being the biggest counters because it has more firepower to hurt it rather than check it. I should add Altaria and Chansey though, and your right Energy Ball only gather up 26.68% - 31.51% on 0 HP / 252 SpD Chansey. (This is with +1 Growth and Overgrow) I might expand removing these counters before sweeping. But then again, I need to test out these "partners" of his for this set to work out great. I'll edit it later, thanks for pointing those out.
 
http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/venusaur

  • Revamped the Entire Thing
  • Moved Choice Scarf to Other Options (wow can't believed it was a set before)Choice Scarf is pretty viable, you need more reasons to remove it.
  • Did Team Options
  • Kept the OU bits in Counter section but revamped the UU comments
  • Added Hidden Power Ground as an option
  • I think that's all
________________________________________________________________
[SET]
name: Support
move 1: Sleep Powder
move 2: Leech Seed
move 3: Grass Knot / Energy Ball
move 4: Sludge Bomb
item: Leftovers
nature: Calm / Bold
evs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Venusaur is a tough adversary to go up against with because it possesses moves that could bother your foes. Its nifty resistances to the common offensive type moves (Electric, Water and Fighting) gives Venusaur an easier time to switch in. The set is difficult to counter because Venusaur has access to Sleep Powder which can be used to put it's counters to sleep. A common tactic for Venusaur is to use Leech Seed while the opponet is asleep or after forcing a switch and begin to drain the opponents HP away. Leech Seed combined with Leftovers means Venusaur is very durable.</p>

<p>The selection between Grass Knot and Energy Ball depends on what your team needs to hit harder. Grass Knot has a 100 base damage on Pokemon like Milotic and Claydol, and base 120 damage on Regirock which helps it defeat it. Grass Knot can deal 45.69% - 53.81% on a max HP Milotic who doesn't invest in Special Defense, which has a 35.50% chance of 2HKOing it, which turns into a sure 2HKO with Steath Rock support or one layer of Spikes. Energy Ball can only return 36.55% - 43.15% on the same Milotic, which is a clean 3HKO. Energy Ball still has it's merits though. Energy Ball allows you to hit Azumarill and Lanturn respectively for 80 base damage while Grass Knot only hits Azumarill with a base 60 base damage and Lanturn with 40 base damage. Your last attacking move is Sludge Bomb which is crucial to hit opposing Grass-types who block your Leech Seed.</p>

<p>You have two choices, if you feel the need to take advantage of your resistance to Fighting-type attacks (which is usually exploited from the physical side). You can change the 252 EVs in your Special Defense and invested it into your Defense and change the nature to Bold.</p>

<p>This set is limited to two attacking moves, therefore Steel-types like Registeel can wall Venusaur. Registeel only fears Sleep Powder, (you could mention Leech Seed too) and in return it can use hit Venusaur[/B/] with Earthquake, start boosting up with Curse, or set up Steath Rock. Just pack a strong Fighting pokemon like Hariyama or Blaziken who can force Registeel to switch out. Registeel almost always carries either Thunder Wave or Toxic, and Hariyama can use either to activate it's ability Guts. Although Venusaur’s versatility means it's hard to counter completely, a strong attacker can usually muscle it's way through Venusaur. One example is Roserade, who is immune to Leech Seed, can take sleep with Natural Cure, or carry sleep of it's own in Sleep Powder. These are handy traits to beat Venusaur and a Choice Specs set can deal with Venusaur most of the time. A Choice Spec Sludge Bomb can deal 61.81% - 72.80% to Venusaur and in return Venusaur can only deal 37.79% - 44.66% to a 4 HP / 0 SpD Roserade. Either Clefable and Chansey that invest in Special Defense make an exceptional partner alongside Venusaur. Chansey can take the majority of Roserade sets, and Seismic Toss it to death. Strong Fire-Type attacker such as Moltes and Blaziken pose an immediate threat to Venusaur. If Sleep Powder misses on a switch, these attackers will gain a free turn. Packing a solid counter to these pokemon is crucial, and Slowking is a great choice due to it's ability to take all Blaziken attacks, and succesfully remove Moltres with the help of Stealth Rock, which take off 50% of Moltres' heath everytime it switches in. Another option is to partner Venusaur up with Azumarril, who with a STAB super effective attack coming off of a 654 Attack stat with a Choice Band, helps reduce these threats greatly.</p>



Not trying to be rude, but that's only the first set and it took me and hour. You need to go back and change the ridiculous amount of hype, and all the words such as nifty, bad boy, jack up, incredible, etc. You also had a great deal of incomplete sentences, and run ons. But as far as the content goes, good write up.
 

franky

aka pimpdaddyfranky, aka frankydelaghetto, aka F, aka ef
is a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Thanks for finding some nitpicks but I really don't think some wordings need to be changed. I'll list a few:

A common tactic for Venusaur is to use Leech Seed while the opponet is asleep or after forcing a switch and begin to drain the opponents HP away.
A common tactic for Venusaur is to unleash Leech Seed while they are asleep or on a switch and begin to extract their HP to replenish yours. Leech Seed with Leftovers means this Pokemon is not going down soon.</p>
unleash and extract, don't need to be changed imo. You get the drift, it's just spicing up the words.

Also I also found the parts you bolded are exactly similar to one I posted, but I did edit some that stood out the most. Other than that I'm not going to edit much. Feel free to find anything wrong again, after I edit it right now.

Strong Fire-Type attacker such as Moltes and Blaziken pose an immediate threat to Venusaur. If Sleep Powder misses on a switch, these attackers will gain a free turn. Packing a solid counter to these pokemon is crucial, and Slowking is a great choice due to it's ability to take all Blaziken attacks, and succesfully remove Moltres with the help of Stealth Rock, which take off 50% of Moltres' heath everytime it switches in. Another option is to partner Venusaur up with Azumarril, who with a STAB super effective attack coming off of a 654 Attack stat with a Choice Band, helps reduce these threats greatly.
Powerhouse Fire-types like Blaziken and Moltres can give Venusaur a rough time. If Sleep Powder fails to put them to sleep on a switch, having Milotic can handle most Blaziken sets. Moltres is extra difficult to beat because it can usually beat its counters. Unleashing Stealth Rock early in the game means it will drastically restrict its opportunities to switch-in and having Azumarill on your team can be good service to force it to switch out with Aqua Jet.
I don't understand why you reworded the entire thing here. Its very redundant.

and succesfully remove Moltres with the help of Stealth Rock, which take off 50% of Moltres' heath everytime it switches in.
Unleashing Stealth Rock early in the game means it will drastically restrict its opportunities to switch-in
These are basically similar in wording, why does it need changing?

and succesfully remove Moltres with the help of Stealth Rock,
This is not true, but its my mistake for not specifying it. A SubRoost Moltres can beat its counters. Slowking suffers Toxic behind a Substitute from Moltres and can begin to Toxic Stall it. Azumarill would probably be the more reliable counter to it because it has Aqua Jet to prevent it from using Substitute.
 

franky

aka pimpdaddyfranky, aka frankydelaghetto, aka F, aka ef
is a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Major edits:

Added Altaria in almost every set for counters thanks to Steinhauser.
Expanded some parts.

If anyone spots anything feel free to post on the thread.
 
It's because your using words such as unleash, this pokemon is not going down soon, drastically, etc. It's not good to spice up things, it's misleading to say with Leftovers and Leech Seed this pokemon is not going down soon, because honestly, that's a lie.

I switched Milotic in the teammate section to Slowking because it's one of the few pokemon that switch into Blaziken, I.E. Blaziken switching in to Venusaur, you switch out, and need something to switch in. Milotic is 2HKO'd, Slowking is not. And with Stealth Rocks, Moltres can't beat a Slowking switch-in, 4 SpA Slowking does

237 Atk vs 206 Def & 383 HP (95 Base Power): 236 - 278 (61.62% - 72.58%)

to STALL Moltres. If it sets up a sub on the switch, Slowking breaks it, then out damages the Roosts, while Slack Off the damage away. Plus I said that Azumarril was the best at forcing it out already.

I mainly added some things that you left out, like Steath Rock taking 50% away from Moltres, instead of just saying it hinders it. And saying Sleep Powder fails < missing, due to it not failing, just missing. I just re-wrote those parts due to the flow being messed if i just subbed in missing for fails.

The parts where you say Blaziken and Moltres give Venusaur a hard time, that's misleading, Venusaur has no shot in hell at taking them on, so I said immediate threat. These things may seem small and insignificant, but they make the analysis more factual and less like an infomercial. You don't have to listen, these are all just suggestions.
 

franky

aka pimpdaddyfranky, aka frankydelaghetto, aka F, aka ef
is a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
You don't have to listen, these are all just suggestions.
I actually just wanted the reasons behind those things you said, and thanks for the reply, i like suggestions and I take them. Making quick edits.
 
In all honesty, tested it 2-3 times. Worked once. I just considered Moltres and Registeel being the biggest counters because it has more firepower to hurt it rather than check it. I should add Altaria and Chansey though, and your right Energy Ball only gather up 26.68% - 31.51% on 0 HP / 252 SpD Chansey. (This is with +1 Growth and Overgrow) I might expand removing these counters before sweeping. But then again, I need to test out these "partners" of his for this set to work out great. I'll edit it later, thanks for pointing those out.
I'm actually saying it is a terrible set. If you want to abuse a starter's pinch ability, use Feraligatr or maybe Charizard. Grass-type attacks cannot pull off an end-game sweep. +1 Overgrow Energy Ball isn't going to kill anything. If you really had your heart set on such a moveset, Sceptile brutally outclasses Venusaur.
 
I'm actually saying it is a terrible set. If you want to abuse a starter's pinch ability, use Feraligatr or maybe Charizard. Grass-type attacks cannot pull off an end-game sweep. +1 Overgrow Energy Ball isn't going to kill anything. If you really had your heart set on such a moveset, Sceptile brutally outclasses Venusaur.
I have to agree with this. Even with Growth, Sceptile still has higher Sp. Atk, higher Speed, Endeavor, Leaf Storm, and Quick Attack to make it a much better user of abusing Overgrow. Maybe give it a fleeting mention it in OO, it really doesn't deserve its own set - even on Sceptile, I relegated the set to OO in my revamp.
 

franky

aka pimpdaddyfranky, aka frankydelaghetto, aka F, aka ef
is a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
I tested the set its iffy I have to admit. with someone with extra, I mean a lot of experience with venusaur confirm that the set is poor? Unless you guys have great experience with this set.
 
Experience with the set is only necessary to prove it is effective. All sets are ineffective by default until proven otherwise - that's why no one is out there proving CB Focus Punch Chansey ineffective. Unless someone (or ideally more than one person) who has used the set with consistent success comes forward to vouch for the set's viability, it's not a good set.

Due to Grass' poor neutral coverage, a Sub/Overgrow strategy is almost always a terrible idea. However, if you need to use it:

Sceptile @ Petaya
- Sub
- Agility
- Energy Ball
- HP Rock

Ends up with +1 SpA, +2 Spe (most scarfers will outspeed +1 Spe Venusaur), and overall higher sweeping stats than Venusaur.
 
[SET]
name: Overgrow
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Growth
move 3: Energy Ball
move 4: Hidden Power Rock / Hidden Power Ground
item: Salac Berry
ability: Overgrow
nature: Timid
ivs: 30 HP
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set takes advantage of Overgrow, which can boost your Grass-type moves by 50% when your HP is rather reduced. The tactic is very simple to use, force a switch-out and when you predict right, you can use Substitute on a switch-out. The 30 Speed (should be HP) IVs means you can unleash Substitute 3 times and after the third time, it will allow you to activate Salac Berry which can increase its rather pathetic speed and allow you to be at "Overgrow Range". Once you got your tools activated you are ready to sweep. Energy Ball is your essential STAB move and it is preferred over Grass Knot to ensure 80 base power at all times. The final slot totally relies on what your team desires to strike. If Registeel is important to hit, Hidden Power Ground is your option, but you leave Moltres wide open to wall this set. If you crave to hit Moltres, Hidden Power Rock is probably your best option, but you leave Registeel wide open to wall this set. The downfall of Hidden Power Ground is that you cannot hit Grass-types where Hidden Power Rock hits them neutrally.</p>
 
Experience with the set is only necessary to prove it is effective. All sets are ineffective by default until proven otherwise - that's why no one is out there proving CB Focus Punch Chansey ineffective. Unless someone (or ideally more than one person) who has used the set with consistent success comes forward to vouch for the set's viability, it's not a good set.

Due to Grass' poor neutral coverage, a Sub/Overgrow strategy is almost always a terrible idea. However, if you need to use it:

Sceptile @ Petaya
- Sub
- Agility
- Energy Ball
- HP Rock

Ends up with +1 SpA, +2 Spe (most scarfers will outspeed +1 Spe Venusaur), and overall higher sweeping stats than Venusaur.
People don't need to prove Focus Punch Chansey is "ineffective" because everybody with a bit of common sense and Pokémon knowledge knows it is a poor set. What's the point in spending time thoroughly testing something that is obviously not going to work? Also, if nobody has tested it, it might still be a good set, it just isn't worthy of a spot on the analysis. It doesn't suddenly "change" to a good set when somebody tests it, it just means somebody can say "this set deserves a spot on the analysis" instead of "I don't know".

A help might be this thread: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45647

I'll try and get hold of Caelum or Gay Dolphin later so they can show their input, as I have personally not tested the set. I know in the previous write up Caelum wrote about Venusaur's bulk - Venusaur has 30% higher Defensive ability and 22% higher Special Defensive ability than Sceptile which is obviously a huge selling point.
 

franky

aka pimpdaddyfranky, aka frankydelaghetto, aka F, aka ef
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After much testing, I find Overgrow to be really weak. Although .. i only performaed it once out of 12-15 battles, once is not good enough. Its sad because 4 games of testing and working once made me write the entire set. If GayDolphin or Caelum (people with experience on Overgrow set) confirm that this is actually a good set?
 

franky

aka pimpdaddyfranky, aka frankydelaghetto, aka F, aka ef
is a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Choice Scarf can be performed better by Roserade. The trade for more power for bulk is much needed. I think its Other Option materials. It was actually one of the only set I had interest with when I used Venusaur back then. It didn't perform that well.
 
The only reason I'd debate re-adding the Choice Scarf set is because of Overgrow, but considering Energy Ball's lower base power, I still don't think it's worth it.
 
If I may, I'd like to make a suggestion. It works only when Secret Power can Paralyze

Moves:
Leech Seed
Secret Power
Attract
Sludge Bomb

I have used this many times and it usually works for me as long as the target's the opposite sex of Venusaur
 
Sub/SD/Salac Venusaur has been used to great effect in recent times, you may wish to include such a set in the analysis.
 

franky

aka pimpdaddyfranky, aka frankydelaghetto, aka F, aka ef
is a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
There's no reference to Crobat except in the OU counters section.
 

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