I seldom see a Substitute Volcarona, if any. In my opinion, Substitute could work great on Volcarona as a buffer against pokemon trying to kill it, and also gives him the ability to quiver dance. However, Sub Volcarona does face many problems, being walled by Heatran, Dragonite, Salamence and friends completely. Despite this, I think with the right amount of support, Sub-Volcarona can still find its place to shine.
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Volcarona
- Thread starter Rising_Dusk
- Start date
Sub Volcarona really appreciates Sun and SR support. Without Sun, its Fire STAB does not hit hard enough and it would sorely miss some coverage granted by Hidden Power. With these 2 factors involved, though, Volcarona has a much easier time taking out Dragonite and Gyarados with +1 Fire Blast. Oh yea, it would also want Dugtrio to remove Heatran.
It works rather similarly to SubDD Gyarados - Substitute protects Volcarona from revenge killers and status, buying Volcarona a few additional turns to dish hard hits or set up more QDs. The protection that this set offers from the likes of Scarf Terrakion & Scarf Landorus really sets it apart from the ChestoRest set. SubQD is more effective than SubDD in a sense, since a few Quiver Dance results in an indestructible Substitute (from the special side), allowing Volcarona to nab even more QD boosts behind the Sub.
It works rather similarly to SubDD Gyarados - Substitute protects Volcarona from revenge killers and status, buying Volcarona a few additional turns to dish hard hits or set up more QDs. The protection that this set offers from the likes of Scarf Terrakion & Scarf Landorus really sets it apart from the ChestoRest set. SubQD is more effective than SubDD in a sense, since a few Quiver Dance results in an indestructible Substitute (from the special side), allowing Volcarona to nab even more QD boosts behind the Sub.
alphatron
Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!
I've actually been using subQD recently and I like it a lot. It does everything you've described. I'm just not sure if I should use fire blast or fiery dance. Both have their upsides. Fire blast would be the obvious choice if I was still running a bulky set.
The only possible coverage move that would benefit Volcarona in the Sun is HP Ground to remove Heatran and Chandelure, but Dugtrio is doing that for Volca anyways. With an offensive spread and a Sun boost, Volcarona (and many other Fire-types) plow through Fire-resists, particularly after a QD or 2.
+1 FB Volca to Dragonite (Multiscale broken): 69-82%
+1 FB Volca to Gyarados: 68-80%
+1 FB Volca to Terrakion: 76-89%
+1 FB Volca to Jellicent: 53-63%
+1 FB Volca to Tentacruel: 52-62%
You get the picture :p
+1 FB Volca to Dragonite (Multiscale broken): 69-82%
+1 FB Volca to Gyarados: 68-80%
+1 FB Volca to Terrakion: 76-89%
+1 FB Volca to Jellicent: 53-63%
+1 FB Volca to Tentacruel: 52-62%
You get the picture :p
Under the sun, pair Volcarona with a powerful physical Attacker such as Darmanitan, as wel as a Chlorophyll sweeper such as Venusaur, and there really isn't anything that can stop your onslaught. Sun teams play similarly to heavy offense, except there's Ninetales instead of a Dual Screener (although many Sun teams carry Espeon). Often times, Volcarona doesn't even need to pull off a sweep, it just needs to weaken the opposing team enough so that someone else can break through.
Oh, and just for lols, a resisted Fire Blast in the Sun has essentially 135 base power, approximately the same as a super effective Hidden Power. That is why Hidden Power Rock honestly isn't useful at all, the imperfect Speed IVs just adds another negative to the pile. Hidden Power Water is potentially useful in the Rain, as it'll have more power than Fire Blast. However, Rain abuser Volcarona's best trait is perhaps its ability to take out Sun teams, so Fire Blast is usually a better option.
Oh, and just for lols, a resisted Fire Blast in the Sun has essentially 135 base power, approximately the same as a super effective Hidden Power. That is why Hidden Power Rock honestly isn't useful at all, the imperfect Speed IVs just adds another negative to the pile. Hidden Power Water is potentially useful in the Rain, as it'll have more power than Fire Blast. However, Rain abuser Volcarona's best trait is perhaps its ability to take out Sun teams, so Fire Blast is usually a better option.
I personally use Fiery Dance over Fire blast for two main reasons; 1) Fiery Dance has much better accuracy (100 to 85"ish" Fiery Dance to Fire Blast respectively). 2) it has about what seems to me at least an 80% chance (I must be very lucky as the actual percentage is 50%) to boost your special attack by one stage. But that's my personal preference, yours may be different.
Fire Blast's effective BP = 120*85/100 = 102 BP
Fiery Dance's BP = 80(IIRC)
Fire Blast does more damage on "average", so Fiery Dance is only useful for trying to gain a boost.
Fiery Dance's BP = 80(IIRC)
Fire Blast does more damage on "average", so Fiery Dance is only useful for trying to gain a boost.
Very true, but that's the my preference, it may not be yours. Like I said, I use Fiery Dance because of a better accuracy and the boost which fire blast only wishes it could do (for both aspects).
You take into account the accuracy of fire blast for its base power but not the doubling affect of Fiery Dance (which happens 50% of the time)?
edit: not doubling a 50% boost :S
alphatron
Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!
I'll have to test giga drain but I doubt it replacing bug buzz completely. Giga drain makes handling water types easier (this was already easy outside of tentacruel and bulky gyarados) and removes terrakion off the list of counters.
It also allows me to get away with running a full on LO offensive set. Holy crap, did volcorona die fast when I used that.
It also allows me to get away with running a full on LO offensive set. Holy crap, did volcorona die fast when I used that.
It's not a doubling effect, it's a SpA boost. But since it happens after the attack, it's only useful for building momentum whereas Fire Blast gets more early KOs.
Volcarona already has Psychic for Terrakion and that isn't even mentioned in the analysis, Giga Drain probably won't see much use unless you really have trouble with bulky waters.
Giga Drain is much more useful than that. Its utility is mostly limited to Life Orb Volcarona, but it is definitely worth the third slot there. It gives Volcarona a relaible way to damage Jellicent, Keldeo, and Gastrodon, and additionally OHKOes Terrakion with +1 SpA Modest and Life Orb, just like Hidden Power Ground. Fire Blast / Bug Buzz / Giga Drain / Quiver Dance Volcarona has near-perfect coverage, missing out on Heatran, Dragon/Flying-types, and Tentacruel, and supporting Volcarona with Dugtrio is of course nothing new. The recovery is also extremely beneficial, considering that Volcarona already has longevity issues as is. The reason Psychic isn't mentioned is that it is very narrow in its uses; it's limited to Terrakion, Tentacruel, and now Keldeo, while other coverage options have more utility.
I was referring mostly to the "removes terrakion off the list of counters" part, pointing out that it already has an option for dealing with Terrakion and doesn't use it, unless I misunderstood what the poster was trying to say there.
sure the combination is resisted by Dragon/Flying types and Fire types but resistances aren't everything - the only Pokemon in OU that, assuming the standard spreads, avoid an OHKO after SR from the Modest +1 Life Orb combination of Fire Blast / Bug Buzz / Giga Drain are:
Heatran, Tentacruel, Blissey, Chansey
4/0 Dragonite takes up to 78% from Fire Blast, Gyarados takes a similar amount. Even 252/252+ Ninetales is OHKO'd by Fire Blast after Stealth Rock so obviously Infernape has no chance. 252/0 Politoed, 252/0 Jellicent and 252/0 Vaporeon are OHKO'd by Giga Drain after SR.
and ice + dragon is totally redundant lol, that's why we have a 660BST Ice/Dragon type languishing in BL.
Heatran, Tentacruel, Blissey, Chansey
4/0 Dragonite takes up to 78% from Fire Blast, Gyarados takes a similar amount. Even 252/252+ Ninetales is OHKO'd by Fire Blast after Stealth Rock so obviously Infernape has no chance. 252/0 Politoed, 252/0 Jellicent and 252/0 Vaporeon are OHKO'd by Giga Drain after SR.
and ice + dragon is totally redundant lol, that's why we have a 660BST Ice/Dragon type languishing in BL.
Been using this;
Volcarona @ Leftovers
Modest Nature
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 108 HP/144 DEF/96 SpA/160 Spe
Bug Buzz
Flamethrower
Quiver Dance
Roost
Volcarona @ Leftovers
Modest Nature
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 108 HP/144 DEF/96 SpA/160 Spe
Bug Buzz
Flamethrower
Quiver Dance
Roost
Can't say I've thought things completely through, but what about dropping Bug Buzz for Giga Drain and keeping HP Rock?
Something like:
Quiver Dance
Fiery Dance/Fire Blast (Fiery Dance turns me on)
Giga Drain
HP Rock
Something like:
Quiver Dance
Fiery Dance/Fire Blast (Fiery Dance turns me on)
Giga Drain
HP Rock
I would never forgo Bug Buzz on Volc simply because its so useful as a reliable STAB, and has good neutral coverage. I love Giga Drain but I would only use it on offensive sets to keep momentum while recovering. In regular BW I used HP Electric with a lot of success. There were too many ground immunities flying around for HP Ground and I hated HP Rock's imperfect speed IV.
I'd much rather be able to OHKO Dragonite (with HP Ice) or beat Tran and Terrakion (and Tenta, for that matter, with HP Ground) than be able to beat the bulky waters I was already 2HKOing in the sun. The only thing really "walling" Volcarona is Chansey.
I think you guys are overhyping Giga Drain. I would use Giga Drain over Roost, though. The only thing really "walling" Volcarona is Chansey.
I think you guys are overhyping Giga Drain. I would use Giga Drain over Roost, though. The only thing really "walling" Volcarona is Chansey.
Been using this;
Volcarona @ Leftovers
Bold Nature
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 240 HP / 216 Def / 52 Spe
Giga Drain
Fiery Dance
Quiver Dance
Roost
With great succes, the only bad thing is the lose of another powerful STAB with great coverage, also Giga Drain is a good move for these reasons:
It gives Volcarona a relaible way to cure itself(very nice with the bulk of this set) and damage Jellicent, Keldeo, and Gastrodon,Tyranitar and additionally Terrakion.
Volcarona @ Leftovers
Bold Nature
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 240 HP / 216 Def / 52 Spe
Giga Drain
Fiery Dance
Quiver Dance
Roost
With great succes, the only bad thing is the lose of another powerful STAB with great coverage, also Giga Drain is a good move for these reasons:
It gives Volcarona a relaible way to cure itself(very nice with the bulk of this set) and damage Jellicent, Keldeo, and Gastrodon,Tyranitar and additionally Terrakion.