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Voodoom (OU Analysis - Pre-Playtesting)

Discussion in 'Create-A-Pokémon Project' started by Rising_Dusk, Aug 24, 2010.

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  1. Rising_Dusk

    Rising_Dusk
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    Name: Voodoom
    Typing: Fighting / Dark
    Stat Spread: 90/85/80/105/80/110
    Ability: Volt Absorb / Lightningrod
    Moves:
    Show Hide
    Code:
    [B]Total Moves:[/B] 74
    [B]Total VGM:[/B] 35
    
    [B]Level Up[/B]
    H Wrap
    H Revenge
    H Night Slash*
    --- Astonish
    --- Copycat
    --- Pain Split*
    --- Spite
    7 Pain Split* (repeat)
    11 Spite (repeat)
    15 Grudge
    19 Charge
    20 Follow Me
    25 Pin Missile
    30 Faint Attack
    35 Close Combat*
    40 Acupressure
    45 Aura Sphere*
    50 Substitute*
    55 Beat Up
    
    [B]Egg Moves:[/B]
    (Egg Groups: Humanshape / Ground)
    Perish Song*
    Smellingsalt
    Screech 
    Pursuit* 
    Memento* 
    Imprison 
    Mach Punch* 
    Baton Pass* 
    
    [B]TMs/HMs[/B]
    TM 01 – Focus Punch*
    TM 06 – Toxic*
    TM 08 – Bulk Up*
    TM 10 – Hidden Power*
    TM 11 – Sunny Day
    TM 12 – Taunt*
    TM 15 – Hyper Beam* (ugh)
    TM 17 – Protect*
    TM 21 – Frustration* 
    TM 27 – Return* (repeat)
    TM 26 - Earthquake
    TM 29 – Psychic*
    TM 31 – Brick Break*
    TM 34 – Shock Wave
    TM 41 - Torment
    TM 42 – Façade*
    TM 43 – Secret Power
    TM 44 – Rest*
    TM 45 – Attract 
    TM 46 – Thief
    TM 49 – Snatch
    TM 52 – Focus Blast*
    TM 56 – Fling
    TM 58 – Endure
    TM 60 – Drain Punch
    TM 66 – Payback*
    TM 68 – Giga Impact
    TM 73 – Thunder Wave*
    TM 75 - Stone Edge*
    TM 78 – Captivate
    TM 79 – Dark Pulse*
    TM 80 – Rock Slide*
    TM 82 – Sleep Talk*
    TM 83 – Natural Gift
    TM 85 – Dream Eater
    TM 87 – Swagger
    TM 90 – Substitute* (repeat)
    HM 04 – Strength
    HM 06 – Rock Smash
    
    [B]Move Tutor:[/B]
    Ice Punch*
    Counter*
    Metronome
    Mud Slap
    Mimic
    Uproar
    Snore
    Vacuum Wave*
    Pain Split* 
    Spite
    Nightmare
    Magic Coat*
    Low Kick*
    Knock Off*


    As usual, we need to get a pre-analysis up in tandem with the playtest period for Voodoom. I have volunteered for this, so that means you guys have to put up with me a little while longer for CAP11. All comments are welcome, although I am almost entirely certain that the sets listed below will not be changing massively, nor will new sets be listed except in extreme cases.
    _____________________________________________

    <h2>Disclaimer</h2>

    <p><b>This analysis is theorymon only and intended to be a valuable reference for all players during Voodoom's playtesting period. Sets in this analysis have not been tested in battle and should not be considered final.</b></p>

    <h2>Overview</h2>

    <p>Voodoom, the progeny of black magic and dollhouse playfriends, can come in on many of the common Pokemon in DPP OU and make them regret giving him that opportunity. With nearly perfect type coverage in his STAB attacking types, resisted only by Toxicroak and Heracross, Voodoom can be annoyingly difficult to break without sacrificing a Pokemon or repeatedly predicting perfectly. Defensively, Voodoom is very difficult to OHKO between his few weaknesses and respectable bulk. All of these features combine with Voodoom's mixed attacking stats to make him a powerful offensive threat to all teams.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Mixed Attacker
    move 1: Aura Sphere
    move 2: Dark Pulse
    move 3: Close Combat
    move 4: Taunt / Hidden Power Ice / Baton Pass
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Volt Absorb
    nature: Hasty / Naive
    evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • Powerful mixed attacking stallbreaker that can switch into Pokemon like Rotom-A and Zapdos, depending on coverage move, and beat them down.
    • Runs Close Combat almost exclusively to beat Blissey and Snorlax, who would otherwise be problematic for a purely special set.
    • Taunt is useful for breaking down stall and keeping Pokemon like Skarmory or Forretress from setting up on Voodoom.
    • Hidden Power Ice is particularly useful for OHKOing all variants of Dragonite after Stealth Rock and beating physically defensive Zapdos.
    • Baton Pass is a useful scouting move that can let you see what your opponent's response to Voodoom is and subsequently sending out your response to that.
    • Hasty / Naive to preserve both attacking stats and reduce the defensive stat of choice while still having enough Speed to tie with opposing Gengar and Voodoom with 252 EVs.
    • 252 Special Attack EVs to hit as hard on that front as possible with 4 Attack EVs to hit Blissey a bit harder.
    • An alternate EV spread of 152 Atk / 104 SpA / 252 Spe is possible to do a minimum of 88% damage to 252/252+ Blissey, but substantially reduces the damage of Voodoom's special attacks.
    [SET]
    name: Bulk Up
    move 1: Bulk Up
    move 2: Low Kick
    move 3: Night Slash
    move 4: Stone Edge / Baton Pass
    item: Leftovers / Life Orb
    ability: Volt Absorb
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • Bulk Up Voodoom can become very threatening over time thanks to Bulk Up, even though his Special Attack stat is substantially higher than his Attack.
    • Low Kick hits most of the tier hard because of their heaviness. Barely hits Pokemon like Jirachi and Vaporeon for anything, but Night Slash can cover those Pokemon just as well.
    • Stone Edge is the primary option in the last slot to really nail Zapdos, Gyarados, and Dragonite after a boost.
    • Baton Pass is functional in the last slot to pass the Bulk Up boosts along once a Pokemon comes in that you cannot best.
    • Jolly nature for tying with Gengar and outspeeding base 100 Speed Pokemon.
    • Simple EV spread to maximize physical damage output with maximum Speed.
    [SET]
    name: SubSplit
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Pain Split
    move 3: Aura Sphere
    move 4: Dark Pulse
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Volt Absorb
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • Takes advantage of Voodoom's excellent type coverage and accurate STAB attacks to abuse a SubSplit strategy.
    • Substitute on the many switches that Voodoom will force, attack appropriately with the safety net of a Substitute, and then Pain Split when necessary to bring Voodoom's life back up.
    • Because of Pain Split in tandem with Substitute, this set can punch through Blissey even without a physical attack.
    • Timid and 252 Speed EVs allow you to at worst tie with opposing Voodoom and Gengar. 252 Special Attack EVs allow you to hit as hard as possible too.
    • Partners very well with Gengar, who can also run a SubSplit set for massive annoyance and for beating and switching into different things.
    <h2>Team Options</h2>

    • Togekiss, Zapdos, Rotom-A
    • Excellent partner with things that lure Electric-, Dark-, or Rock-type attacks for getting in at relatively little cost.
    <h2>Optional Changes</h2>

    • Acupressure and Baton Pass together.
    • Vacuum Wave.
    • Thunder Wave.
    • Psychic for Heracross and Toxicroak.
    • Substitute and Focus Punch together.
    <h2>Counters</h2>

    • Heracross.
    • Choice Scarf Tyranitar can check him with higher Speed and Superpower.
    • Life Orb Starmie's Hydro Pump hurts a lot, but will still at best 2HKO.
    • Spikes and Toxic Spikes.
  2. CobraJSF

    CobraJSF

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    Just making sure, pursuit and mach punch are legal together right? If so then:

    [SET]
    Name: SpeedDoom
    move 1: Mach Punch
    move 2: Pursuit
    move 3: Close Combat
    move 4: Baton Pass/Taunt
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Volt Absorb
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 6 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe

    This could be like Hitmontop, but more powerful. Thoughts?
  3. Jibaku

    Jibaku Not taking FS requests atm.
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    Yes, because one of Voodoom's egg groups is Ground.
  4. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight Photorealistic Seagull (PSG)
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    Hmmm, I'm not sure if this will work since it's more support oriented, but I'll post it anyway.

    [SET]
    name: Pure Support
    move 1: Dark Pulse
    move 2: Bulk Up / Acupressure
    move 3: Baton Pass
    move 4: Thunder Wave
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Volt Absorb
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Spe / 4 SpA

    • Great synergy with PlotKiss, which can pass back and forth and give Voodoom a +2 SpA boost.
    • 2HKO's Rotom-A and OHKO's Gengar after Stealth Rock.
    • Provides paralysis support for Togekiss Air Slashes, crippling Zapdos that have not used Substitute.
    • Breaks the Sub of every Zapdos set except Specially Defensive with Dark Pulse.
    • Can Pass Bulk Up to aid Togekiss' defense, allowing it to switch into weaker Close Combats. (or try gimmick Acupressure...)
  5. Rising_Dusk

    Rising_Dusk
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    Except it has 10 less base Attack than Hitmontop and lacks the most important thing about it, Technician. That set is very, very weak offensively.
    It is a Baton Pass set with Thunder Wave. I don't want to purport the feasibility of a pure support set without playtesting to support its effectiveness. For the record, it is very wasteful to run Bulk Up with Baton Pass without the ability to abuse it before passing. Night Slash and a Jolly nature would function much better. The more I review your set, the more I'd rather run my BU set in the OP with Baton Pass over Stone Edge. I'd also just mention a bulkier EV spread in AC for the BU set if you were worried about that.
  6. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight Photorealistic Seagull (PSG)
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    The idea would be to fake the Bulk Up set as a physical wall comes in (ideally Bulky Rotom-A), and then proceed to put it in 2HKO range with Dark Pulse as it attempts to burn Voodoom. Afterwards you have another chance to Bulk Up or to Baton Pass away in anticipation of a switch. In the end you still threaten Togekiss' counters and you can stat up largely with impunity to pass it it or another Pokemon (if for example Blissey comes in afterward, after concluding you don't possess a physical attack of some sort.)

    So again this will need playtesting to verify, and will largely depend on the success of a physical Bulk Up set to cause that fear, but hand-waving "a set with Baton Pass and Thunder Wave" when it would be the only legitimate BU passer in OU (Floatzel lol) shouldn't be done immediately.

    So basically I'll be playtesting this and seeing if it works, pretty much like CounterCoat during Krillowatt.
  7. doominic77

    doominic77

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    Ok I got an idea.

    [SET]
    name: Togekiss Partner Sweeper.
    move 1: Dark Pulse
    move 2: Close Combat
    move 3: Thunder Wave/Bulk Up/Toxic
    move 4: Baton Pass/Aura Sphere
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Volt Absorb
    nature: Rash
    evs: 148 Atk / 108 SpA / 252 Spd


    • Best partner for Togekiss.
    • Can sweep and support.
    • 148 Atk EVs are exactly enough to KO WishBliss after SR.
    • If you prefer Aura Sphere can be used over Baton Pass for a secondary stab.

    If you use this set that the set Togekiss should have is

    [SET]
    name: Voodoom Partner Supporter
    move 1: Nasty Plot
    move 2: Wish
    move 3: Baton Pass
    move 4: Air Slash
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Serene Grace/Natural Cure
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spd
  8. familyguyman

    familyguyman

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    Kiss of Doom

    Voodoom @ Life Orb
    Volt Absorb

    Aura Sphere
    Dark Pulse
    Thunder Wave/Psychic
    Close Combat

    Naive/Rash
    Evs: 4 Atk/252 SpAtk/252 Spe


    The goal here is to receive a Plot-pass from Togekiss, Thunder Wave the switch in and proceed to sweep with what should be the primary counter paralyzed. The dual coverage goes without saying and Close Combat is for Blissey. Psychic can be used over Thunder Wave to perfect the coverage. NP Aura Spheres and Dark Pulses should nail all kinds of bulky Fighting types and Zapdos. Rash can be used over Naive and the Speed EVs thrown into attack if you are using a paralysis heavy team as the extra punch will be most welcome.
  9. eXeggutoraped

    eXeggutoraped

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    name: Anti-lead
    move 1: Dark Pulse
    move 2: Aura Sphere
    move 3: Taunt
    move 4: Vacuum wave
    item: Focus sash / Life Orb
    ability: Volt Absorb
    nature: +speed, -att
    evs: 252 spa / 252 Spd / 4 def

    Stop those stealth rocks for togekiss!

    Taunt slow stuff, attack faster stuff then use vacuum wave.
  10. X-Act

    X-Act np: Biffy Clyro - Shock Shock
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    I know that it is not frequently used, but Toxicroak is a counter to most, if not all, Voodoom sets, especially the ones that carry only STAB moves.

    EDIT: Because of this, I'd actually prefer Psychic as the third move... or, at least, that it is mentioned. It works well against Heracross too. After all, the only two Pokemon that are not hit by at least neutral damage by Dark / Fighting are Heracross and Toxicroak.
  11. Ditto

    Ditto /me huggles
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    Why use a Hasty nature when you aren't a Mixed User or a Counter set? Switch to a Timid nature if you want the speed.
  12. Zystral

    Zystral めんどくさい、な~
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    Where's the Substitute/Focus Punch set?
    Something like Substitute/Bulk Up/Focus Punch, even.
  13. Rising_Dusk

    Rising_Dusk
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    As novel as this might be, it won't actually happen. Voodoom always has numerous better options than Psychic, and if you're really worried about Toxicroak, you can have any of the countless OU Pokemon that would love beating up on him as teammates. Heracross is arguably a better case for Psychic with better defensive and offensive stats, but even he is not enough to actually slash Psychic on a main set. (Just use Rotom-A/Zapdos/Gyarados/etc. as a teammate)

    It is good OC material, though, so it will be mentioned there.
    I actually doubt this set's effectiveness. Sure, STAB Focus Punch is cool, but just use Aura Sphere or Close Combat after you use Substitute and you net the same OHKOs. We have to remember that Voodoom doesn't have the base Attack of Breloom or even Arghonaut, so it's too tough to say that it'll be good right now. I think we should wait until post-playtesting to consider a SubPunch set in the analysis.
    Voodoom loses to half the leads in the metagame by typing, and loses to the rest by inability to KO. He'd happily beat the suicide leads, and might beat Metagross as well as Heatran with Life Orb, but Machamp and Infernape eat him alive and without the ability to run Lum Berry like Machamp, Smeargle/Roserade beat you too. Sure, Rotom-A won't actually beat you, but Machamp basically outclasses it everywhere across the board. (I think Voodoom probably has better mid-game utility, but who knows) If this is effective, we'll have to play it first before it goes into the analysis.
  14. Gasoline

    Gasoline

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    I'm kinda surprised im not seein any sets with like Earthquake, Aura Sphere/Close Combat, and Hidden Power Fire.... could get some good coverage really...
    Like something like this:
    name: MixedDoom
    move 1: Dark Pulse
    move 2: Aura Sphere/Close Combat
    move 3: Hidden Power Fire
    move 4: Earthquake
    item: Life Orb/Expert Belt
    ability: Volt Absorb
    nature: Naive/Hasty
    evs: 76Atk/180SpA/252Spe
    And you dont have to worry about toxicroak or heracross to a certain point.
  15. firecape

    firecape This is the end...
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    Earthquake has really redundant coverage with Fighting.
  16. Gasoline

    Gasoline

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    hmm thats is true, but i just dont see why we haven't mentioned hidden power fire or grass here for swampert or scizor coverage, i mean isn't togekiss scared to take scizor's bullet punch?
  17. tennisace

    tennisace
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    RE: HP Fire--

    252 Hasty Life Orb Voodoom Aura Sphere
    vs. 248/0 Adamant Choice Band Scizor : 57.7% - 68.2%

    Hasty Life Orb Voodoom
    vs. 252 Adamant Choice Band Scizor Bullet Punch : 67.6% - 79.8%

    2hko's if it switches in, pursuit is useless since Voodoom 4x resists, and it can take a hit from Bullet Punch at full health. Although, I don't recommend switching into Scizor on fear of U-turn, which does 78.5% - 92.8%.

    RE: HP Grass--

    252 Hasty Life Orb Pokemon Aura Sphere
    vs. 240/52 Relaxed Leftovers Swampert : 42.6% - 50.4%

    Hasty Life Orb Pokemon
    vs. Relaxed Leftovers Swampert Earthquake : 48.9% - 57.9%

    Stalemate. (although we didn't want Voodoom to have a Grass move so it could beat Swampert!) Essentially Swampert switches in on whatever and takes a large hit, Voodoom switches out to Grass-type/Flying-type.
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