Who's the better Tracer? P2 or Gardevoir?

[Tricky]

Trace... On!

Which one do you think makes the most use of Trace?
I just trained up a Trace Porygon2, and been having good success and fun with it. Mostly because Trace is a fun ability and P2 has the stats to back up its potential. However, I wonder about the other Tracer, Gardevoir.

It seems to be P2's Trace is like his symbol icon, while Gardevoir's Trace is more of an add-on.

Gardevoir #282
Stats

HP: 68
Atk: 65
Def: 65
Sp.Atk: 125
Sp.Def: 115
Spd: 80

Porygon2 #233

HP: 85
Atk: 80
Def: 90
Sp.Atk: 105
Sp.Def: 95
Spd: 60

In comparison on which has the smoother and sexier curves, I say both are tied.

On a second glance, Garvedoir has better sp.atk/speed compared to P2's better HP.
Gardevoirs defenses average at 90, while P2's defenses average at 92.5.
Pretty tied, however P2's defenses are more balanced between eachother with Gard more tilted towards Sp.Def.

P2 also has high HP, combined with balancced defenses is able to switch in and trace and take the atk more easily than Gardevoir. Especially considering P2 is only weak to fighting, while Gardevoir needs to watch out for Bug, Ghost, and Dark attacks.

G has more sp.atk and speed for attacking. However Gard's speed isn't particularly faster than P2 either, I don't think this puts it much higher than P2, since most of the pokemon worth tracing are going to be faster than either of them anyway.

In terms of Trace what/who does Gardevoir pull off better than P2 that P2 can't and vice versa?

Any other Trace-Users fans care to share some experiences?

 

[Lou Cypher]

The best thing Gardevoir can trace is Ninjask's speed boost. After all, Ninjask tends to pass on to slow pokes such as Marowak, Tyranitar, Metagross etc etc. Gardevoir can outspeed those pokes. Porygon2 will struggle with several of them despite the speed boosts.

Otherwise tho, not THAT much is great to trace. Both take immense use from Levitate coming from a quaker (Y HLO THAR FLYGON), but one of the more interesting ones is Flash Fire. Most pokes packing that are Special based so Gardevoir might be better in handling follow-up assaults. Motor Drive, same thing as P2 wont like Cross Chop (Vire DOES carry that usually, right?). So I'd go for Gardevoir.

Then again I AM a Gardevoir fanboy.

 

[Carl]

Porygon2 is a great Trace pokemon because of the way Trace changed in DP. The usefulness here comes in defensive abilities not offensive. You now get that Intimidate help and because of that you can EV Porygon in a way that it becomes a great counter to Gyarados and physical Salamence which alone is enough reason to use it. Why it's a great counter is not only due to Trace but also because it can use both Thunderbolt and Ice Beam to immediately threaten both those pokemon PLUS use Recover to heal off the damage immediately from switching in. Gardevoir can only threaten Thunderbolt since Ice Punch is now physical. Gardevoir does not have as good of stats on the defensive end and Gardevoir has no means of recovering that damage outside of Rest which is extremely risky on almost all pokemon in DP.

 

[Lou Cypher]

I might feel the need that Gardevoir can recover damage by a simple move called Wish.

 

[Tricky]

Wish means that Gardevoir has to take at least 2 hits(assuming that he didn't Wish on a switch). Its alot risker than Recover imo.
Recover helps to test out damage if your not sure if you should stay in or not immeditately. Barring hard hitting fighting moves, P2 easily withstands most single turn attacks when he's at comfortable health.

 

[Easton]

Porygon2 is 3HKO by most attacks, and at best with a little help of HP and Defense EVs he can take one STAB Fighting Attack at near full health. He is the more studier choice for a Tracer IMO, and with that he can also take advantage of it. Switch it on a Ninjask, and then whatever comes out you kill. With that, Porygon2 can effectively sweep until it is stopped by Magnezone

~Hidden Power [Fighting]
~Ice Beam
~Thunderbolt / Discharge
~Recover

Ideal moveset. Takes care of Tyrannitar and Magnezone who otherwise take few damage from BoltBeam

 

[Tricky]

I see the desires of HP Fighting, but I think Tri-Attack is more beneficial. And magnezone and t-tar are easily dealt with with the rest of your team.
The status effects Tri-Attack can give you is very valuable for a defensive type like P2.
Especially if your able to Trace Serene Grace.
I like the odds(w/ Serene Grace) of
20% chance of burn
20% chance of parazle
20% chance of frozen

EDIT: 100th post, weeee

 

[sanjay120]

Wonder Guard.

Good fucking game, ubers. Except now you're suspectable to Pressure-stalling.

 

[Edux]

Porygon2 is inmune to Ghost and weak to Fight.
Gardevoir is weak to Ghost and resistant to Fight.

So they switch into different things...

But Gardevoir isn't used because of Trace, as you said is like an add-on, when Porygon2 relies its bulkness on Trace...

I would rather use Porygon2, and I do, my avatar is the proof hehe

Another appealing' thing of Porygon2 is the ability to T.Wave a whole NON ELECTIVIRE team, and if they send a Ground Poke you have Ice Beam and 105 Base SpA to pwn them =P ^^

 

[Mario With Lasers]

Gardevoires are 3HKOed by Gyarados after Intimidating it.

But I can't say much, because I'm a Gardevoir fanboy too. Biased posts for the lose.

 

[garsh0p]

i definitely like gardevoir's ability to sweep better and its higher speed.

i like the fate/stay night reference xP

 

[Deck Knight]

LOL at higher speed. 80 is still pretty crappy. Any attacker of note outspeeds them both, the only credit Gardie gets is that she takes special hits marginally better. Whereas since P2's speed sucks, you can focus on its defenses for the most part.

Gardie isn't a certifiable better attacker anymore either. Its Tbolt is better, but HP Ice is pretty crappy compared to Ice Beam. Gardy can't OHKO a Gablias all the time unless it is Modest. P2's IBeam can (I assumed max SA for both).

In fact, P2's IBeam can OHKO no HP/SD Gablias with no EV's or nature about half the time (obviously you boost SA more in order to get a better chance.) Gardy's HP Ice? Yeah right.

P2 has a bad weakness in fighting, but Gardevoir is Tyranitar bait, especially now with Sandstream letting it walk all over special attackers without SE moves. Gardie also attracts Weavile fairly readily.

If you're looking for a good Tracer, go with the drinky bird. Gardie is much better off with Synchronize.

 

[Dragontamer]

Gardie isn't a certifiable better attacker anymore either. Its Tbolt is better, but HP Ice is pretty crappy compared to Ice Beam. Gardy can't OHKO a Gablias all the time unless it is Modest. P2's IBeam can (I assumed max SA for both).

What the heck is Gablias?

If you're going to speak some sort of shortcut, can you _please_ have more than 2 letters matchup with the real pokemon?

 

[Turismo2029]

I think it's Garchomp, not sure though.

Sucks when people use their japanese names. :/

 

[TSPhoenix]

IMO Porygon2's typing and all round better defenses lend itself much better to tracing. As mentioned its ability to counter intimidators is very handy. Recover falling to 10PP however greatly hindered its ability to wall unboosted attacks.

P2 has served me very well in the past, and Trace allows you to pull of some truly interesting switchins, but prevents others too.

Gardevoires are 3HKOed by Gyarados after Intimidating it.

Gyarados don't try to 3HKO anything with Thunderbolt.

The best thing Gardevoir can trace is Ninjask's speed boost.

With Ninjask having X-Scissor just as often as Aerial Ace these days that is probably not the best idea. Just a word of warning.

 

[Deck Knight]

I think it's Garchomp, not sure though.

Sucks when people use their japanese names. :/

Ah, my bad. Slipped back into my "Japanese names are way cooler than English names LOL Garchomp ftw" mode

 

[Bankai]

I currently vastly prefer Gardevoir, since every threat and their mother runs Close combat or Cross chop. Easy to switch her in. The only thing to safely switch Porygon2 into is a ghost attack, which isn't common.

 

[Deck Knight]

I currently vastly prefer Gardevoir, since every threat and their mother runs Close combat or Cross chop. Easy to switch her in. The only thing to safely switch Porygon2 into is a ghost attack, which isn't common.

Heracross Close Combat on No HP/Def Gardevoir: 43-63%.

That is without Choice Band.

Gardevoir cannot take ANY boosted physical attacks. Even CB Staraptor 2HKO's half the time with Close Combat(Jolly. Adamant always 2HKOs), nevermind anything with actual STAB. Gardevoir might have been better when the best fighting attack going for a lot of pokemon was Brick Break or Focus Punch, but now that Close Combat is everywhere, Gardevoir is either going to kill its "sweeping" ability by moving from Speed and SA to defenses.

As I said, Gardie is also Pursuit bait, especially from the likes of TTar and Weavile.

Gardevoir can take special attacks, but physical hits just aren't its forte.

 

[TSPhoenix]

If Gardevoir didn't have a speed of 80 switching in on a fighting move would be viable. However with Hercross being that bit faster in most cases and having a SE move accurate and powerful enough to make staying in against it foolish.

Gardy can't even realistically switch in on Machamp thanks to No Guard Dynamicpunch. Non-boosted Gardevoir Psychic only does 86% max should it stay in for some reason (confusehax?). Salac Machamp (however rare) will outrace you for a OHKO.

Gardy simply doesn't have the defenses to try and take on most physical poke, the faster ones kill it and the slower ones typically have Burn/Paralyse immunities.

 

[Bankai]

Heracross Close Combat on No HP/Def Gardevoir: 43-63%.

That is without Choice Band.

Gardevoir cannot take ANY boosted physical attacks. Even CB Staraptor 2HKO's half the time with Close Combat(Jolly. Adamant always 2HKOs), nevermind anything with actual STAB. Gardevoir might have been better when the best fighting attack going for a lot of pokemon was Brick Break or Focus Punch, but now that Close Combat is everywhere, Gardevoir is either going to kill its "sweeping" ability by moving from Speed and SA to defenses.

As I said, Gardie is also Pursuit bait, especially from the likes of TTar and Weavile.

Gardevoir can take special attacks, but physical hits just aren't its forte.

Fair enough.

However, it can switch in on Psychic. :D :D

 

[Lou Cypher]

If Gardevoir switches in on Special moves, any PHYSICAL one is gonna think twice about switching in due to the vast array of incapitating moves it might pack. Want to send in Garchomp? Yeah, Hypnosis and Will O Wisp hate you. Aerodactyl? T-Wave kills everything he has going for it. Tyranitar? All 3 options and be aware of HP Fighting (Which I think will be a standard on Gardevoir due to its x4 weak counters). Gardevoir forces tough decisions that way.

 

[Jibaku]

Heracross Close Combat on No HP/Def Gardevoir: 43-63%.
.

It's 54%-63%

 

[Forsety]

I'll simply say Porygon2 because its better rounded so it can take advantage of a multitude of various traits. Gardy although stronger in the special areas is far too specialist to take advantage of many traits outside of Z's Download/Adaptability, Intimidate, Levitate and Ninjasks Speed Boost.

 

[Bankai]

Then what abilities can Porygon2 take advantage of?

 

[Deck Knight]

If Gardevoir switches in on Special moves, any PHYSICAL one is gonna think twice about switching in due to the vast array of incapitating moves it might pack. Want to send in Garchomp? Yeah, Hypnosis and Will O Wisp hate you. Aerodactyl? T-Wave kills everything he has going for it. Tyranitar? All 3 options and be aware of HP Fighting (Which I think will be a standard on Gardevoir due to its x4 weak counters). Gardevoir forces tough decisions that way.

That's about right... and when people realize your Gardevoir is loaded up with support moves and not attacks, then what?