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XY OU Analysis Reservation Index - READ CAREFULLY (MAKING A NEW THREAD)
- Thread starter Jukain
- Start date
Yeah, we'll talk about Entei, you make some good points, but it does have some merit. Thanks for bringing it up.
I'd like to bring up the viability of Gourgeist. It is argubly inferior to Trevenant - who was rejected for an analysis - and, aside from Shadow Sneak and S' higher speed, what do they bring to the table that Trevanant doesn't? I don't think they deserve an analysis, but if one of them is deemed viable it should be Gourgeist S for the aformentioned higher speed as I don't see any reason to run Gourgeist XL over Trevenant who completely outclasses it tbh with access to Harvest and Horn Leech - two things that Gourgeist lacks.
Gourgeist-XL has already been rejected.
Gourgeist-XL was rejected.
And Gourgeist-S is, in a nutshell, actually fast enough to cripple and drain some threats like Mega Scizor while maintaining great defenses, something that a lot of defensive Ghost-types can't do. With its Speed, it tosses up at least a couple of important threats before dying and, well, it's it's behind a Substitute and you don't have recovery of your own, good luck. Admittedly, it's not something you'd think of first when putting together a team since it's stopped by more than a few threats, but suffers relatively less than Trevenant, who's slower and is less bulkier on both sides while having to coinflip on Harvest.
Ah. I didn't realise gourgeist XL had been rejected, and I did say that S did have a bit of a niche when I said "if one of them is deemed viable it should be Gourgeist S for the aformentioned higher speed". Carry on.
The Shellder Smuggler
Banned deucer.
Tesung is giving me Ampharos. Do I keep the skeleton he has and add to it or do I just make a new one?
Definitely just use the same skeleton and add to it.
Ah. Nobody responded to this yet.
Okay, so in a nutshell, despite the new Quality Control standards, we determined that Entei still deserves an analysis, and that people can actually justify using it over other Pokemon. Yes, it's not anything amazing, and it's not taking stuff by a storm, nor is it the biggest thing ever. However, Sacred Fire and Extremespeed are still valuable assets that can apply a large amount of pressure towards opposing teams (no stall team or offensive team really likes taking free damage from burn, no matter how bulky), and despite lacking stupendous coverage, Fire + Ground + ESpeed is really all it needs. It gets its jobs done, pulls its weight (meaning it's not 100% useless against any team), and is viable enough to keep its analysis.
(PS Choice Band is dumb)
They're not viable.
Asking whether something's viable isn't how you make a reservation post. It's pretty simple:
- If you know it's viable, state why. Thoroughly.
- If you know it's not viable, don't try to reserve it.
- If you don't know whether it's viable or not, find out for yourself.
Would someone please explain to me why Defog + Roost is "done better" by Latios enough such that it doesn't deserve a serious mention on Latias's analysis? Because to be honest, the few times I've wanted to use Defog + Roost on one of the Lati twins, I've used Latias. The whole point of Roost is to keep your Defogger alive longer, and I'd honestly rather use the twin with the greater bulk that can abuse that extra survivability to the fullest. Yeah, Latios has more power going for it, but you're still going to run into problems offensively when you're restricted to 2 move coverage. Meanwhile, Latias's extra bulk really does matter. For instance, Latias is only 2HKOed by Modest Charizard Y's Sun-boosted Fire Blast 38.7% of the time, which lets it stall out the Sun turns with Roost more easily, at which point Charizard Y will be doing piss damage. Latios takes considerably more damage, so Charizard Y actually has a shot at coming out on top if Latios switches into Stealth Rock and suffers a few high damage roles (unless Charizard Y has been weakened to ~80% so that Draco Meteor will be a guaranteed OHKO). Life Orb Keldeo has no chance at 2HKOing Latias with Icy Wind, while Latios is 2HKOed 89.5% of the time. Latias can switch into Breloom post-sleep a bit more easily since Adamant LO Bullet Seed (3 hits) followed by Mach Punch after Stealth Rock fails to KO Latias, while it has a decent shot at KOing Latios (there are other combinations to consider depending on the number of Bullet Seed hits and Breloom's nature/item, but I don't care to look up all of them). Latias survives Greninja's Life Orb-boosted Ice Beam 87.5% of the time from full health, which is useful if you're in a bind, while Latios is always OHKOed (or 92.8% of the time, if you're running 0/4 > 4/0). Latias can survive 4 Atk LO Landorus's Knock Off after Stealth Rock 50% of the time and all the time from full health, while Latios is guaranteed to die after Stealth Rock and still dies 31.3% of the time from full health. Latios is 2HKOed by Mega Manectric's HP Ice after Stealth Rock 75% of the time, while Latias is never 2HKOed under the same conditions. Latias can check Mega Pinsir in a pinch by surviving a +2 Quick Attack even after Stealth Rock and KOing back with Draco Meteor, even having a good chance to live on after the resulting Life Orb recoil. Latios has a 25% chance to die after Stealth Rock, and the Life Orb recoil is almost guaranteed to kill it afterwards. Latias is only OHKOed by Adamant CB Talonflame's Brave Bird 6.3% of the time from full health, which is a 62.5% chance for Latios. Latias can also switch into Terrakion more easily; LO Stone Edge fails to KO, and Latias will almost always survive the Life Orb recoil after KOing back with Psyshock. Latios has a small shot at being OHKOed on the switch-in, and it has a really good chance to die to Life Orb recoil the following turn.
I know this is kind of a random mishmash of various examples, but it's just a few specific scenarios to demonstrate where the extra bulk of Latias can matter. Even besides those specific examples, Latias's ~10% extra physical bulk and ~16% extra special bulk will come in handy every time it has to take a hit. Honestly, I could easily see where each Lati twin might have their advantages running such a set depending on the team. If you want to run Defog + Roost for a more reliable Defogger and you need the extra bulk to pivot in and out of various opponents or check/counter them more easily, you can go with Latias. If the bulk doesn't matter to your team, Latios is better due to its extra power. I can understand why you might prefer Latios the majority of the time since its greater offensive presence is very valuable, but I honestly don't see how Latios performs this particular set so much better than Latias that it isn't even worth giving a serious thought in Latias's analysis.
I know this is kind of a random mishmash of various examples, but it's just a few specific scenarios to demonstrate where the extra bulk of Latias can matter. Even besides those specific examples, Latias's ~10% extra physical bulk and ~16% extra special bulk will come in handy every time it has to take a hit. Honestly, I could easily see where each Lati twin might have their advantages running such a set depending on the team. If you want to run Defog + Roost for a more reliable Defogger and you need the extra bulk to pivot in and out of various opponents or check/counter them more easily, you can go with Latias. If the bulk doesn't matter to your team, Latios is better due to its extra power. I can understand why you might prefer Latios the majority of the time since its greater offensive presence is very valuable, but I honestly don't see how Latios performs this particular set so much better than Latias that it isn't even worth giving a serious thought in Latias's analysis.
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because it's terrible in this meta. There are better and more reliable rock setters, the steel nerf hurt steel / psychic the hardest as things like bisharp and aegislash are pretty much everywhere, trick room sucks right now, mold breaker excadrill is ever present. Just to name a few things off the top of my head.
I'd like to reserve Marowak. He's not on the 'don't mention me' list, and I didn't see anyone else reserve it.