I believe that a major purpose of this thread is to help newer players find out what is good and not good to use on a team without doing extensive research on each Pokemon (usage statistics which determine which Pokemon are OU do not help with that). Most of us more experienced players are well aware of each individual Pokemon's strengths and weaknesses which matter more to us than the letter grade. If a newer player sees Charizard, Pinsir, and Venusaur all in the S rank, it will probably take him a little while to figure out that he cannot use all three on the same team since they all need their mega forms. Yes, there are more Pokemon to rank, but ranking megas separately minimizes the confusion which would otherwise exist if we just lumped both (or all three in the case of Charizard) together.
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Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (B- and C+ Pokemon discussion)
- Thread starter ginganinja
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Garchomp is, without an incredible pokemon (in so many metagames).
However, S tier, imho, is an exclusive list of pokemons that impact the metagame with ease.
I still fail to see how garchomp is so much better than its other current A+ buddies.
Thanks for explaining. Seems legit, I appreciate it.
The power is immense. I should really get back into battling. Thanks for the info.
I am thinking if it makes even sense to seperate the 2 Megazards in Viability. When it comes to being unpredictable Charizard is one to look out for. When you see it on the team preview, you don't know which Mega it is (or even if it is a mega lol). The only indicator might be the other pokemon in your opponents team and even that doesn't help much.
Either being destroyed by a wallbreaker or an extremely dangerous sweeper makes them centainly difficult to predict and handle, not to mention that one is extreme on the special side and vice versa.
Either being destroyed by a wallbreaker or an extremely dangerous sweeper makes them centainly difficult to predict and handle, not to mention that one is extreme on the special side and vice versa.
I think some people may be over looking Rotom-W's support nature for S-Rank. With moves such as T-Wave, Will-o-Wisp, Trick and Pain Split I feel like Rotom-W could be S-Rank for it's added role of a supporter. By being able to Burn or Paralyze in-coming threats then Volt Switching to a counter. I do agree that the lack of a solid recovery hurts but it's support roles shouldn't be over looked.
Both Mega-Zards I believe should be S-Rank. A lot has been said on them but they're unpredictability helps.
Mega-Venu I think should move down to A+ Rank. Mostly from personal experience I couldn't have it justifying the Mega spot in my teams. I could've built a bad team but he always felt like a waste. On paper he does wall a lot of the metagame but I just feel like he isn't as good as he once was since the recent bans
Both Mega-Zards I believe should be S-Rank. A lot has been said on them but they're unpredictability helps.
Mega-Venu I think should move down to A+ Rank. Mostly from personal experience I couldn't have it justifying the Mega spot in my teams. I could've built a bad team but he always felt like a waste. On paper he does wall a lot of the metagame but I just feel like he isn't as good as he once was since the recent bans
I think it's been stated already that Char Y does not have coverage issues as someone said it best "it has three great moves it could end up running anything in its fourth slot, hell, even HP Electric if it damn wanted to."
Now I know you yourself have the Charizard OU thread here, but if you see it having 4MSS then id like to know why as with Fire Blast, SolarBeam, and FocusBlast/Earthquake it had all it needed to effectively destroy stuff.
Rotom-W is not S material. In every game it gets slapped by knock off, and then gradually worn down.
If a team doesn't have an answer to it, the opponent is retarded. Clefairy, umbreon, latias, goodra, chansey, celebi, shaymin, reuniclus, conk, you name it... every team can find something to deal with rotom.
If a team doesn't have an answer to it, the opponent is retarded. Clefairy, umbreon, latias, goodra, chansey, celebi, shaymin, reuniclus, conk, you name it... every team can find something to deal with rotom.
The annoying thing about charizard's different forms, is that one is physical attacker and one is a special attacker. Sure you can say that since they have 1 special attacker, 2 other physical attackers, a wall core and zard. But you can't say for sure that switching in blissey will be safe. Mega zard x can just annihilate it with a stab tough claws flare blitz.
(252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 462-544 (64.7 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery)
You have to scout by a protect of using a poke as death fodder. The latter basically sacrificing a poke.
And tankzard x seems more prominent and i have been seeing a lot of them recently. This provides another option for the versatile megazard.
My experience with Venu is the opposite. I tend to build bulky offense/semi-stall teams, which Venusaur fits well on, and he has always been an asset. As you said, you probably aren't putting Venu on team types that he performs well on. Also, your own personal experience is a bad argument to use for lowering ranks. What actual reasons do you suggest for him moving down, aside from "I never had trouble with him/I never used him well"?
If we're purely discussing the special sub set, let me point out that from experience, SpD Heatran's Lava Plume breaks Kyu-B's sub and there's no point in setting up on ChanBliss because you can't touch them and they beat you with multiple S-Tosses. You're never OHKOing Skarmory anyway so beating Sturdy is not noteworthy and you're not boosting so ignoring Unaware is not noteworthy either, especially since Clefable can set up on you. Kyu-B loses to a lot of stuff like blobs, Sylveon, Clefable, Conkeldurr, Mega Scizor, etc. Most teams nowadays have something for Kyu-B without preparing for it specially.
I felt like the only other things I could add to the discussion were personal experiences with other people better explaining why, IMO, he should be dropped. The new metagame shift where there is a more influx of Flying and Psychic moves to handle him. And if we can't use personal experience we must solely rely on theorymons which isn't always 100% accurate. It takes a lot to decide if a Pokemon should move up/down or stay the same and I was adding my own little contribution. I just feel from the battles I've had that Mega-Venu isn't an S-Rank threat. Solid A to A+Rank but for there isn't enough reason in my mind for it to still be S.
Honestly, the bans apply since monday i realy, realy doubt that the ladder experience one could make in less than 3!! days is even somewhere close to representativ to the meta. As i mentioned before, from my personal experience Pinsir was the most common Mega even before the bans but in fact its somewhere in the Top 40 or so. So i would be cautious with that.
That aside even if Pinsir takes Lucarios place how much does that change? Venu couldnt wall luke reliablely and now he wont be able to wall pinsir. Until now u needed another poke to stop luke now u will need something to stop pinsir. The fact remains that venu allone willl wall 4 to 5 pokemon on most teams. To me thats enough for S Rank. If the usage statistic at the end of the month shows a strong increase in Double Bird and Eon twin usage i agree with demoting venu, however doing it now based on 3 days of personal experience and theorymoning is far to early.
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Can you give an example of such a scenario, I'm not sure I'm understanding you correctly. Charizard is going to mega evolve first turn every time, unless your going into Char-X and against something you know is going to hit you with a dragon move, in this case it's usually better to DD first turn, then mega evolve to outspeed an kill.
Sure you can switch something in, but the only way you can threaten both is with something faster with access to Stone Edge such as scarf Terrakion (if it's not scarfed then Char-X DD's first turn an KO's with EQ)
Personally i prefer roost over coverage, as it is often the case that you might switch in due to rocks after predicting say a ferro switch. Roostin goff the damage is pretty important, and it is not hard to realise that opponents will be afraid of the incoming fire blast. However on , i do think that roost is slightly pointless (unless bulky zard), as it is not a wall breaker and doesn't need to come in, annihilate something then GTFO. Zard x is more set up sweep rather then a wall breaker, in my opinion.
No, Rotom-W is such an overrated little thing that does such basic things that aren't even special. The only reason its actually viable is because of its typing.
I think that CharizardX and Y should just be condensed into 1 Charizard
I think it should be done like this:
(with or without bold)
This would let us rank them together like how we should, and at the same time let the ranking help newer players that are reading this understand that ONLY the megas are viable.
but even if they are still ranked separately (They would be A+ without being from the same base IMO) they both should stay S
Also, can the conclusion reached pokemon (Rotom-W/M-venu) please stay as conclusion reached as Gene and Lucario leaving don't really feel like "Major" meta changes to me.
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Grouping Megazard X and Y into one slot is one of the stupidest things I've seen in this topic. Y is a wall-breaker and weather setter and X is a sweeper. They serve completely different roles and are about as comparable as Politoed and Poliwrath.
Charizard without a Mega Stone is garbage, just like Aegislash without a ghost STAB is garbage. They're still both S Rank. Condensing them does not imply Charizard is viable without its Mega Stone.
AT LEAST SOME PART of Charizard's viability comes from its ability to take on two roles, and that alone is enough reason to list them together. We don't rank any other Pokemon's sets separately so why should Charizard's be? They're still the same Pokemon.
AT LEAST SOME PART of Charizard's viability comes from its ability to take on two roles, and that alone is enough reason to list them together. We don't rank any other Pokemon's sets separately so why should Charizard's be? They're still the same Pokemon.
Many Pokemon are capable of running substantially different sets even without a Mega Stone involved.
"AT LEAST SOME PART" is the reason they are S. Individually they are pretty much A+
And using my suggestion
Shows the megas together, as they should be because they both come from the same charizard, and it also shows for the newer players that only the megas are viable.
Thorhammer
No other pokemon has their stats change with their role in such drastic ways.
If we're ranking the Genies and their Incarnate and Therian formes separately, then X/Y Megas should receive the same treatment.
Except the genies do not start in their base form
When I see a Therian forme in the team preview, I know exactly what form is coming my way, that it is clear and distinct from its counterpart, and what to use to check/counter it with.
When I see Charizard in the team preview, outside of potential hints given from my opponent's team composition (If they've done a good job, it should be as ambiguous as possible), what evolution Charizard will be running should be ambiguous, and I don't know what I should be using to check/counter it with.
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