I think it was even more noticeable in previous generations (since it's balanced out a bit better this time). All the best Dragon and Steel types would end up in OU, leaving not many good ones to choose from in the lower tiers, whilst some of the other types (especially Ice) had some of their best representatives remaining, so were able to stand out more
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XY UU Beta Discussion (Read post #32)
- Thread starter Ace Emerald
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I think it was even more noticeable in previous generations (since it's balanced out a bit better this time). All the best Dragon and Steel types would end up in OU, leaving not many good ones to choose from in the lower tiers, whilst some of the other types (especially Ice) had some of their best representatives remaining, so were able to stand out more
On paper slowking sounds perfect, but bisharps knock off is a guaranteed ohko which doesnt help. Amoongus can cripple bisharp with spore.
Also i dropped lax and found magnezone to be a good check to mega gard lacking focus miss and not behind a sub which is very good.
Ok so I've played extensively with Deoxys-D and I've come to the conclusion that it's pretty broken in UU. I've tried multiple sets; SR Toxic Taunt Recover and Thunderwave SR Spikes Nightshade as of now. I've tried it on stall and I've tried it on offense. It is ridiculous.
I guess I'll talk about stall deoxys first. This thing never dies. If you run s.def like I did, mega blastoise can't even spin on you as you can just toxic and recover all day. If you don't have STAB super effective moves, it is extremely difficult to break deoxys. It walls a pretty ridiculous portion of the metagame and with taunt / toxic you can't even defog or spin away its hazards. Yes it's a bit of bisharp/crawdaunt bait but you can just pair it with something to deal with them or drop toxic for night shade which also works.
HO deoxys is just as good. I've been running twave SR spikes nightshade @ mental herb (definitely thought about dropping night shade for taunt or superpower). It usually doesnt have too much trouble getting up 2 layers, again defogging its very difficult due to twave (unless your name is zapdos). Usually I can apply enough momentum for the other team to not get time to defog, but even if they do it's a huge liability to do so with bisharp around.
My HO deoxys team is 22-3 and my stall deoxys team is 38-4 as of now (I'm not saying this to brag but I think this should give an idea of how easy it is to win with deoxys and should show that I'm not just talking theorymon).
Stall deoxys never dies.
HO deoxys is pretty reliable at getting up at least 2 layers.
This thing really needs to go...
I guess I'll talk about stall deoxys first. This thing never dies. If you run s.def like I did, mega blastoise can't even spin on you as you can just toxic and recover all day. If you don't have STAB super effective moves, it is extremely difficult to break deoxys. It walls a pretty ridiculous portion of the metagame and with taunt / toxic you can't even defog or spin away its hazards. Yes it's a bit of bisharp/crawdaunt bait but you can just pair it with something to deal with them or drop toxic for night shade which also works.
HO deoxys is just as good. I've been running twave SR spikes nightshade @ mental herb (definitely thought about dropping night shade for taunt or superpower). It usually doesnt have too much trouble getting up 2 layers, again defogging its very difficult due to twave (unless your name is zapdos). Usually I can apply enough momentum for the other team to not get time to defog, but even if they do it's a huge liability to do so with bisharp around.
My HO deoxys team is 22-3 and my stall deoxys team is 38-4 as of now (I'm not saying this to brag but I think this should give an idea of how easy it is to win with deoxys and should show that I'm not just talking theorymon).
Stall deoxys never dies.
HO deoxys is pretty reliable at getting up at least 2 layers.
This thing really needs to go...
I don't get how Thundurus-T was banned and not Deoxys-D lol.
So t-t was banned because it was overshadowing Zapdos?
No. Zapdos and T-t fulfill completely different roles
While Zapdos is mostly seen as bulky attacker or wall, Thunderus-t is rather an all-out attacker with Expert Belt or Life org, and in rare occasions Specs. Also, Thunderus-t has the option to go mixed and has access to Knock Off. To top it off, Thunderus has that sky-high 145 Base Special Attack stat. So no, Zapdos isn't overshadowed by Thunderus-t, since they do not fulfill (almost) the same role, while most off the time, the Deoxys-formes could be seeen running Spikes, SR, Taunt, Magic Coat or a combination of those. While it is true Deo-D is able to wall, Deo-S has some more offensive presense(or however you spell it n.n) and is faster ofcourse, they both fulfilled basically the same role: Set up hazards and/or screens
Not to mention Zapdos is commonly seen running Defog, Roost, or even both on defensive sets. Thundurus-T doesn't have the defenses to do what Zapdos can on the supportive/defensive end of the spectrum while Thundy-T's sky high Special Attack made it hit much harder than Zapdos ever could. Thundy-T was more straightforward while Zapdos is more versatile due to its more balanced stat distribution.
As for Deoxys-D, I can't say I've used it yet. However, as someone who doesn't run a Dark-, Bug-, or Ghost-type on their main team, this thing is stupid hard to kill off. The bulky set is just insane. It's like Mega Aggron on steroids. You can invest in either defense stat and whichever stat you invest in will make it to where only STAB super effective moves from that end of the spectrum even have a chance of breaking through you. The HO set is a little bit more manageable with stuff like Zapdos, Rotom-H, and Mega Manectric being decent leads to avoid Thunder Wave with, but that still won't stop it from getting 2-3 layers of hazards up and then you have to find time for your Defog / Rapid Spin user to get in. Most HO Deo-D teams run Bisharp and/or a Ghost-type, so trying to get rid of the hazards may very well end the game for you as long as your opponent keeps that Ghost-type and/or Bisharp alive. Also, Taunt is definitely worth the spot over Night Shade. Just set hazards with that thing and being able to get a guaranteed Taunt on faster Taunt users is just really damn good for something like Deoxys-D.
As for Deoxys-D, I can't say I've used it yet. However, as someone who doesn't run a Dark-, Bug-, or Ghost-type on their main team, this thing is stupid hard to kill off. The bulky set is just insane. It's like Mega Aggron on steroids. You can invest in either defense stat and whichever stat you invest in will make it to where only STAB super effective moves from that end of the spectrum even have a chance of breaking through you. The HO set is a little bit more manageable with stuff like Zapdos, Rotom-H, and Mega Manectric being decent leads to avoid Thunder Wave with, but that still won't stop it from getting 2-3 layers of hazards up and then you have to find time for your Defog / Rapid Spin user to get in. Most HO Deo-D teams run Bisharp and/or a Ghost-type, so trying to get rid of the hazards may very well end the game for you as long as your opponent keeps that Ghost-type and/or Bisharp alive. Also, Taunt is definitely worth the spot over Night Shade. Just set hazards with that thing and being able to get a guaranteed Taunt on faster Taunt users is just really damn good for something like Deoxys-D.
I think you may have misinterpretted what Kokoloko is saying; Deoxys-D was not banned because it was overshadowed by Deoxys-S, not the other way round. Thundurus-T, afaik, was banned because there is basically nothing in the game that can switch in without worrying it's about to be fucked over. Between Knock Off, HP Ice, Grass Knot, Thunderbolt, Superpower and U-turn it will have a move to deal with basically anything - the only question is whether it carries the right one for your check.
Thats completely false, by this logic hydreigon would had been banned a long time ago. Fyi thundurus-t was also impossible to switch in last gen ou and still is in this gen ou yet no one is asking for ban. If anything, it was banned here because of the double dance set, though i still dont agree on a quickban for it.
Yeah, Thundurus-T had a huge case of 4MSS. If it didn't run HP Ice, Roserade and Latias would wall it, and if it didn't run Knock Off, AV Metagross could deal with it. It also had trouble running Choiced sets, since it didn't like being locked into any of its moves; Thunderbolt/Volt Switch is a liability with Ground-types around, Focus Blast/Grass Knot is horribly unreliable, and HP Ice is pathetically weak. Boosting sets faced even more 4MSS, despite being harder to switch into. I'm not a part of the council, so I'm probably missing something important, but in my opinion, Thundurus-T isn't really ban-worthy, despite being extremely powerful and fairly fast.
On another note, here is a core that I have been loving:
Vaporeon and Escavalier both compliment each other very well. They both have impeccable mixed bulk while still boasting a good offensive presence. They cover each other's weaknesses fairly well, with Escavalier having no trouble with Grass-types like Roserade and Amoonguss, while Vaporeon dealing with Fire-types like Arcanine and Darmanitan with amazing ease. Furthermore, Vaporeon provides Wish support since AV Escavalier gets worn down fairly fast. The only thing that troubles this core that I have run into on the ladder (have played around 40 games with this core so far), is Mega Manectric. Mega Manectric can 2HKO both Vaporeon and Escavalier with Thunderbolt and Flamethrower, respectively, while both fail to OHKO back. This is why I use Mega Ampharos, as it easily deals with Mega Manectric while also providing Heal Bell support to top off Vaporeon's Wish support. There isn't much else to say really, these two when used alongside proper partners are excellent in dealing with a slew of common threats in today's metagame.
On another note, here is a core that I have been loving:
Vaporeon and Escavalier both compliment each other very well. They both have impeccable mixed bulk while still boasting a good offensive presence. They cover each other's weaknesses fairly well, with Escavalier having no trouble with Grass-types like Roserade and Amoonguss, while Vaporeon dealing with Fire-types like Arcanine and Darmanitan with amazing ease. Furthermore, Vaporeon provides Wish support since AV Escavalier gets worn down fairly fast. The only thing that troubles this core that I have run into on the ladder (have played around 40 games with this core so far), is Mega Manectric. Mega Manectric can 2HKO both Vaporeon and Escavalier with Thunderbolt and Flamethrower, respectively, while both fail to OHKO back. This is why I use Mega Ampharos, as it easily deals with Mega Manectric while also providing Heal Bell support to top off Vaporeon's Wish support. There isn't much else to say really, these two when used alongside proper partners are excellent in dealing with a slew of common threats in today's metagame.
False, Specially defensive Lanturn doesnt give a single shit about any of his moves aside from Knock Off. Speaking about Lanturn, I've been using it lately and works surprisingly well. Scald/Heal Bell/Toxic or Thunderwave, depending on your team/Volt Switch works amazingly well as a bulky pivot and it's slow Volt Switch almost guarantees a safe switch-in for a frail sweeper. The only problem is that it lacks recovery outside of lefties and Water/Volt absorb (I recommend Volt Absorb since it removes a neutrality and there's a ton if electric moves), but the fact that there is such a ridiculous amount of good wish passers like Umbreon, Chansey, Latias, Florges and maybe even Alomomola, who is a water type, but her defensive bulk is simply amazing. Just get yourself a decent defensive flying or Latias to cath those Ground and electric moves.
Latias works wonders with Lanturn, given her ability to comfortably switch in Earthquakes and Grass Moves, as well as passing wishes and using Defog. This core has some problems with set-up sweepers though ._.
With Drizzle banned, manual rain must be used for rain teams. One cool rain setting core I've developed is
These three Pokemon provide a defensive backbone for Rain teams with great defensive synergy. General roles I've assigned:
Cofagrigus: status spreader/T-Spikes setter (yes this is Cofagrigus's new toy)
Aggron-M: takes repeated physical blows, phases
Umbreon: cleric, wishpasser
All three have Rain Dance, and Cofagrigus and Umbreon hold Damp Rocks. Cofagrigus relies on healing from Umbreon because Pain Split + Toxic Spikes is illegal. Aggron has Rest but not Sleep Talk, so Umbreon is relied upon to remove sleep. This core is difficult to break with proper prediction on my part, and it supports deadly rain sweepers (Kingdra, Tornadus-T, Toxicroak, Omastar, etc.).
Sets:
Cofagrigus (M) @ Damp Rock
Trait: Mummy
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SpA
Bold nature
-Will-o-Wisp
-Toxic Spikes
-Rain Dance
-Shadow Ball
Aggron (M) @ Aggronite
Trait: Sturdy--->Filter
EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 Def
Impish nature
-Rain Dance
-Rest
-Heavy Slam
-Dragon Tail
Umbreon (M) @ Damp Rock
Trait: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP/4 SpA/252 SpD
Nature: Calm
-Wish
-Heal Bell
-Rain Dance
-Snarl
These three Pokemon provide a defensive backbone for Rain teams with great defensive synergy. General roles I've assigned:
Cofagrigus: status spreader/T-Spikes setter (yes this is Cofagrigus's new toy)
Aggron-M: takes repeated physical blows, phases
Umbreon: cleric, wishpasser
All three have Rain Dance, and Cofagrigus and Umbreon hold Damp Rocks. Cofagrigus relies on healing from Umbreon because Pain Split + Toxic Spikes is illegal. Aggron has Rest but not Sleep Talk, so Umbreon is relied upon to remove sleep. This core is difficult to break with proper prediction on my part, and it supports deadly rain sweepers (Kingdra, Tornadus-T, Toxicroak, Omastar, etc.).
Sets:
Cofagrigus (M) @ Damp Rock
Trait: Mummy
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SpA
Bold nature
-Will-o-Wisp
-Toxic Spikes
-Rain Dance
-Shadow Ball
Aggron (M) @ Aggronite
Trait: Sturdy--->Filter
EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 Def
Impish nature
-Rain Dance
-Rest
-Heavy Slam
-Dragon Tail
Umbreon (M) @ Damp Rock
Trait: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP/4 SpA/252 SpD
Nature: Calm
-Wish
-Heal Bell
-Rain Dance
-Snarl
I'd like to bring this bad boy up to discussion
Mega Houndoom is an absolute BEAST when it's given the chance. It has one of the most powerful attacks in Fire Blast under sun that ever was and it has Nasty Plot to pile on top of that. I've been using it lately (not only bc doom is my favorite poke of all time) and it crushes the opponent. The only things it really fears are priority from strong fighting types but it is just so powerful and fast someone use it so I can share my excitement for this thing.
I use it with Whimsicott to set up sun. Here is my Houndoom set (pretty basic)
Houndoom (M) @ Houndoominite
Ability: Flash Fire -> Solar Power
252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
-Nasty Plot
-Fire Blast
-Dark Pulse
-Solarbeam
I know it has other cool options like setting up its own sun or Destiny Bond, but I went for set up and sweep with no other inhibitions and it has gotten me through late game sweeps incredibly (even without priority). Snorlax (and some bulky waters if you don't run Solarbeam) can screw you over, but Doom is so great rn tbh
Just thought I'd throw something in there.
Mega Houndoom is an absolute BEAST when it's given the chance. It has one of the most powerful attacks in Fire Blast under sun that ever was and it has Nasty Plot to pile on top of that. I've been using it lately (not only bc doom is my favorite poke of all time) and it crushes the opponent. The only things it really fears are priority from strong fighting types but it is just so powerful and fast someone use it so I can share my excitement for this thing.
I use it with Whimsicott to set up sun. Here is my Houndoom set (pretty basic)
Houndoom (M) @ Houndoominite
Ability: Flash Fire -> Solar Power
252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
-Nasty Plot
-Fire Blast
-Dark Pulse
-Solarbeam
I know it has other cool options like setting up its own sun or Destiny Bond, but I went for set up and sweep with no other inhibitions and it has gotten me through late game sweeps incredibly (even without priority). Snorlax (and some bulky waters if you don't run Solarbeam) can screw you over, but Doom is so great rn tbh
Just thought I'd throw something in there.
I'd like to bring this bad boy up to discussion
Mega Houndoom is an absolute BEAST when it's given the chance. It has one of the most powerful attacks in Fire Blast under sun that ever was and it has Nasty Plot to pile on top of that. I've been using it lately (not only bc doom is my favorite poke of all time) and it crushes the opponent. The only things it really fears are priority from strong fighting types but it is just so powerful and fast someone use it so I can share my excitement for this thing.
I use it with Whimsicott to set up sun. Here is my Houndoom set (pretty basic)
Houndoom (M) @ Houndoominite
Ability: Flash Fire -> Solar Power
252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
-Nasty Plot
-Fire Blast
-Dark Pulse
-Solarbeam
I know it has other cool options like setting up its own sun or Destiny Bond, but I went for set up and sweep with no other inhibitions and it has gotten me through late game sweeps incredibly (even without priority). Snorlax (and some bulky waters if you don't run Solarbeam) can screw you over, but Doom is so great rn tbh
Just thought I'd throw something in there.
I built a UU sun team a few weeks ago and it did very great for a few battles, but then Drought got banned and I had to retire the team. Houndoom-M was one of my sun sweepers, alongside Victreebel (goodbye Fairies!). Here, though, you use manual sun. I wanted to applaud you for your combination. Whimsicott, being a sun-setting Grass-type, will bait Fire-type moves. The turn after Sunny Day is used, Houndoom can switch in, grab a Flash Fire boost, THEN Mega Evolve and get a 371.25 BP move factoring in STAB, Sun, Solar Power, AND the Flash Fire boost. And this is coming off a Base 145 SpA! Just add a SR-setter and a revenge-killer and you'll be steamrolling the opposition!
Cool set and concept sickweare! However, the only thing I would change is Nasty Plot. Mega Houndoom neither has the time or need to use it, since it would be much better off utilizing the sun turns to fire off powerful Fire Blasts, and it already hits ridiculously hard (especially if you get that Flash Fire boost !_!), which makes Nasty Plot redundant imo. I would probably replace Nasty Plot with something like Destiny Bond, so you can take something down with you if you feel Houndoom has done its job and is faster than the opposing Pokemon.I'd like to bring this bad boy up to discussion
Mega Houndoom is an absolute BEAST when it's given the chance. It has one of the most powerful attacks in Fire Blast under sun that ever was and it has Nasty Plot to pile on top of that. I've been using it lately (not only bc doom is my favorite poke of all time) and it crushes the opponent. The only things it really fears are priority from strong fighting types but it is just so powerful and fast someone use it so I can share my excitement for this thing.
I use it with Whimsicott to set up sun. Here is my Houndoom set (pretty basic)
Houndoom (M) @ Houndoominite
Ability: Flash Fire -> Solar Power
252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
-Nasty Plot
-Fire Blast
-Dark Pulse
-Solarbeam
I know it has other cool options like setting up its own sun or Destiny Bond, but I went for set up and sweep with no other inhibitions and it has gotten me through late game sweeps incredibly (even without priority). Snorlax (and some bulky waters if you don't run Solarbeam) can screw you over, but Doom is so great rn tbh
Just thought I'd throw something in there.
Mega Houndoom was amazing when Drought was legal, Solar Power boosted attacks were really strong. Anyways, I still think it's effective.
On another note, use this guys:
Kyurem @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Ice Beam / Blizzard
- Earth Power
- Dragon Pulse
Of course Staraptor is getting lots of hype now that it's back in UU, and it's definitely amazing. However, the other original Uber of BW UU, Kyurem, is nothing to be trifled with either. Specs Draco Meteor is still a literal nuke button, and although Draco Meteor got nerfed a little due to its BP being lowered and Fairies being introduced, from Kyurem it can really sting. Ice Beam is there for some nice reliable STAB move that can hurt as well, and also wrecks Dragons like Latias that try to come in. Blizzard could be useful if you're planning on running Abomasnow in conjunction with Kyurem, though since I've been hard pressed to make a good hail team so I don't really recommend that. Earth Power is a really neat move, and is useful to smack around Metagross and Bisharp, both pretty good Pokemon in this metagame. Dragon Pulse is just there for filler since Kyurem's movepool is so small, but could be useful in some cases. Kyurem's Speed, although not amazing, is still passable, and with its power and somewhat usable bulk this thing can be a real powerhouse. Anyways, definitely try this thing; you won't be disappointed.
On another note, use this guys:
Kyurem @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Ice Beam / Blizzard
- Earth Power
- Dragon Pulse
Of course Staraptor is getting lots of hype now that it's back in UU, and it's definitely amazing. However, the other original Uber of BW UU, Kyurem, is nothing to be trifled with either. Specs Draco Meteor is still a literal nuke button, and although Draco Meteor got nerfed a little due to its BP being lowered and Fairies being introduced, from Kyurem it can really sting. Ice Beam is there for some nice reliable STAB move that can hurt as well, and also wrecks Dragons like Latias that try to come in. Blizzard could be useful if you're planning on running Abomasnow in conjunction with Kyurem, though since I've been hard pressed to make a good hail team so I don't really recommend that. Earth Power is a really neat move, and is useful to smack around Metagross and Bisharp, both pretty good Pokemon in this metagame. Dragon Pulse is just there for filler since Kyurem's movepool is so small, but could be useful in some cases. Kyurem's Speed, although not amazing, is still passable, and with its power and somewhat usable bulk this thing can be a real powerhouse. Anyways, definitely try this thing; you won't be disappointed.
Eh, kyurem is certainly great, but as a choice user i think you should stick to hydreigon. Immunity to spikes, toxic spikes, sticky web and neutrality to stealth rock means it doesnt require defog support to switch around. Dark is a much more spammable stab than ice because almost nothing resists it. Hydreigon also has u-turn so to gain momentum against chansey and florges. Lets not forget that hydreigon can outspeed base 95s like kyurem itself and darmanitan and can also outspeed the rare haxorus. Kyurem also lacks the ability to revenge kill a boosted bisharp, who is easily the most threatening pokemon in the tier. Really, i have nothing against kyurem but i dont exactly understand what it has over hydreigon as a choice user, specially when hail has been nerfed.
I had some success with this Kyurem set. I didn't make it myself- I just copied/pasted from Smogon's Gen V guides, but still, here it is:
Kyurem @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 52 HP / 220 SAtk / 236 Spd
Modest Nature
- Substitute
- Roost
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
The speed is just enough to get past positive natured base 80s. This set takes advantage of some of Kyurem's strong points over other dragons, mainly focusing on his Ice stab. Ground hits fire and steel, and non-keldeo water types can't really do shit to Kyurem anyways since they ALWAYS run scald and occasionally ice beam. Also, sub/roost allows you to stall out the opponent, draining its pp with pressure, which is great against defensive 'mons like Florges.
Kyurem @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 52 HP / 220 SAtk / 236 Spd
Modest Nature
- Substitute
- Roost
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
The speed is just enough to get past positive natured base 80s. This set takes advantage of some of Kyurem's strong points over other dragons, mainly focusing on his Ice stab. Ground hits fire and steel, and non-keldeo water types can't really do shit to Kyurem anyways since they ALWAYS run scald and occasionally ice beam. Also, sub/roost allows you to stall out the opponent, draining its pp with pressure, which is great against defensive 'mons like Florges.
Here's one of my personal favorite sets this gen:
Cofagrigus @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Mummy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
Quiet Nature
IVs: 30 Def / 30 SAtk / 30 SDef / 2 Spd
- Trick Room
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Destiny Bond
I actually quite like OTR Cofa in this meta and it's probably the best candidate for a spinblocker and Ghost-type on bulky offense teams. Its excellent bulk and typing gives it tons of opportunities to switch in and set up, and from there it can dish out a surprising amount of pain with Spooky Plate Shadow Ball especially with the Ghost buff. Something gimmicky I like to throw in there is Destiny Bond which actually works surprisingly well with Trick Room and is fantastic at luring out general checks / counters to Cofa like Porygon2, Mega Blastoise, Hydreigon, etc. and is just a cool move for nabbing kills against troublesome Pokémon that I can't kill on the spot. It's a nice alternative to NP simply because a lot of teams just won't give Cofa enough breathing room to be set up both Trick Room and Nasty Plot, and Shadow Ball can still do quite respectable damage to most offensive threats even when unboosted. Can't punch as much holes in bulkier teams without NP though Destiny Bond helps to make up for that.
Another option for an item is Colbur Berry which gives it additional setup opportunities against Dark-type moves or allows it to take a Sucker Punch after setup. Nasty Plot can also work slightly better on Colbur variants because of the increased setup opportunities.
Cofagrigus @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Mummy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
Quiet Nature
IVs: 30 Def / 30 SAtk / 30 SDef / 2 Spd
- Trick Room
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Destiny Bond
I actually quite like OTR Cofa in this meta and it's probably the best candidate for a spinblocker and Ghost-type on bulky offense teams. Its excellent bulk and typing gives it tons of opportunities to switch in and set up, and from there it can dish out a surprising amount of pain with Spooky Plate Shadow Ball especially with the Ghost buff. Something gimmicky I like to throw in there is Destiny Bond which actually works surprisingly well with Trick Room and is fantastic at luring out general checks / counters to Cofa like Porygon2, Mega Blastoise, Hydreigon, etc. and is just a cool move for nabbing kills against troublesome Pokémon that I can't kill on the spot. It's a nice alternative to NP simply because a lot of teams just won't give Cofa enough breathing room to be set up both Trick Room and Nasty Plot, and Shadow Ball can still do quite respectable damage to most offensive threats even when unboosted. Can't punch as much holes in bulkier teams without NP though Destiny Bond helps to make up for that.
Another option for an item is Colbur Berry which gives it additional setup opportunities against Dark-type moves or allows it to take a Sucker Punch after setup. Nasty Plot can also work slightly better on Colbur variants because of the increased setup opportunities.
I'm not so sure about Cofagrigus. The buff to Knock Off and Bisharp practically everywhere makes Cof hard to use imo. Without NP, it has a base 95 S.Atk, which is ok at best. It's niche last gen of needing minimal set up made it a very potent threat with just a few safe switch ins (Togekiss, Meloetta, Honchkrow, etc..)
Hmm, okay I'll have to try that out! I liked using Nasty Plot because a lot of people are scared of facing M-Doom under sun so they switch to the best thing that can tank a hit, but end up being squashed by an extremely powerful attack with the boost. That makes a lot of sense though and it has good synergy when I work it with Whimsicott, so I'll try taking on Destiny Bond in its place! Thanks for the advice
Keldeo @ Leftovers
120 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 132 Spe
Modest Nature
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Secret Sword
I haven't build anything I'd consider a good team yet but of the sets I've used this is probably my favourite. Keldeo has good natural bulk that works great with a sturdier SubCM set and sweeps like you wouldn't believe against slower/more defensive teams. It's bulky enough to set up on almost any special attacker - in some cases even those with super-effective STAB, but unlike a lot of SubCM mons the combination of 129 base Special Attack and a Modest nature mean you can hit hard without needing a boost. I'm running enough speed to beat max +ve base 80s at the moment so I can get a good hit in on Gardevoir before it Mega Evolves if I already have a CM or two but I've been tempted to go up to 192 spe for max neutral base 100s, I'd just rather not lose the bulk or power. I'm running a team with a decent amount of burn support, which means my subsitutes are almost untouchable after a couple of Calm Minds.
I also like Analytic Tank Magnezone and CB Entei quite a lot, the former is obscenely strong and the latter has access to what is basically the best move in the game, though it misses far more often than I'd like.
120 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 132 Spe
Modest Nature
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Secret Sword
I haven't build anything I'd consider a good team yet but of the sets I've used this is probably my favourite. Keldeo has good natural bulk that works great with a sturdier SubCM set and sweeps like you wouldn't believe against slower/more defensive teams. It's bulky enough to set up on almost any special attacker - in some cases even those with super-effective STAB, but unlike a lot of SubCM mons the combination of 129 base Special Attack and a Modest nature mean you can hit hard without needing a boost. I'm running enough speed to beat max +ve base 80s at the moment so I can get a good hit in on Gardevoir before it Mega Evolves if I already have a CM or two but I've been tempted to go up to 192 spe for max neutral base 100s, I'd just rather not lose the bulk or power. I'm running a team with a decent amount of burn support, which means my subsitutes are almost untouchable after a couple of Calm Minds.
I also like Analytic Tank Magnezone and CB Entei quite a lot, the former is obscenely strong and the latter has access to what is basically the best move in the game, though it misses far more often than I'd like.
this is probably a hilarious and stupid one but here's a replay of bisharp turning a 6-0 against the opponent
seriously though sticky web + bisharp is a joke, even defogging isn't safe due to defiant. and he turns sticky web against the opponent too!
yeaaaaa i think bisharp needs to get the hell out, if it's not moving out to OU by next week.
at adamant 252 ev in speed, bisharp hits 239 speed, so you need a grounded pokemon with 360 speed to revenge bisharp (or a 240 speed flyer/levitator). except it's not even a good 'revenge' because sucker punch LOL. and most stuff with 360 speed aren't strong enough to tank +2 dread plate sucker punch.
seriously though sticky web + bisharp is a joke, even defogging isn't safe due to defiant. and he turns sticky web against the opponent too!
yeaaaaa i think bisharp needs to get the hell out, if it's not moving out to OU by next week.
at adamant 252 ev in speed, bisharp hits 239 speed, so you need a grounded pokemon with 360 speed to revenge bisharp (or a 240 speed flyer/levitator). except it's not even a good 'revenge' because sucker punch LOL. and most stuff with 360 speed aren't strong enough to tank +2 dread plate sucker punch.
My thoughts on Bisharp were essentially "extremely dangerous, strong priority, can spam one of the best moves in Pokemon very easily, but fragility and prediction reliance hold it back" but then I just played a game and this happened:
Bisharp used Stealth Rock!
Pointed stones float in the air around the opposing team!
The opposing Slowbro used Fire Blast!
It's super effective! Bisharp lost 90.7% of its health!
I lived with about 2%, killed Slowbro and Sucker Punched his Staraptor to death. If not for being able to set SR on that Fire Blast I would have lost the game for sure because Sucker Punch doesn't OHKO Staraptor. This has dispelled, for me, the illusion that Bisharp is a fragile Pokemon - not super bulky, certainly, but pretty clearly capable of taking a beating. There is almost nothing that takes Knock Off comfortably with Heracross-M gone and Bisharp is possibly the perfect SR setter - Defog gives it a free SD and it has massive offensive potential to discourage spinning. It's just too good at turning a game around, at putting your opponent in a no-win situation. I've faced 4 sticky web teams so far and +2 Bisharp has cleaned up all of them even when I thought there was no hope of me winning because it's just so threatening and so difficult to check at +2, you absolutely must resist Sucker Punch or be crazy bulky. Sucker Punch makes anything with 4 attacking moves a liability against it and I've been running CB Gourgeist-S with it, anything I frisk a Choice item or Assault Vest on is easy Sucker Punch bait.
IMHO the combination of a very strong sucker punch and knock off, modest bulk and speed, and a reasonable range of fourth moves combned with great typing and a surprisingly relevant ability make Bisharp easily strong enough to warrant a place on the initial banlist.
Bisharp used Stealth Rock!
Pointed stones float in the air around the opposing team!
The opposing Slowbro used Fire Blast!
It's super effective! Bisharp lost 90.7% of its health!
I lived with about 2%, killed Slowbro and Sucker Punched his Staraptor to death. If not for being able to set SR on that Fire Blast I would have lost the game for sure because Sucker Punch doesn't OHKO Staraptor. This has dispelled, for me, the illusion that Bisharp is a fragile Pokemon - not super bulky, certainly, but pretty clearly capable of taking a beating. There is almost nothing that takes Knock Off comfortably with Heracross-M gone and Bisharp is possibly the perfect SR setter - Defog gives it a free SD and it has massive offensive potential to discourage spinning. It's just too good at turning a game around, at putting your opponent in a no-win situation. I've faced 4 sticky web teams so far and +2 Bisharp has cleaned up all of them even when I thought there was no hope of me winning because it's just so threatening and so difficult to check at +2, you absolutely must resist Sucker Punch or be crazy bulky. Sucker Punch makes anything with 4 attacking moves a liability against it and I've been running CB Gourgeist-S with it, anything I frisk a Choice item or Assault Vest on is easy Sucker Punch bait.
IMHO the combination of a very strong sucker punch and knock off, modest bulk and speed, and a reasonable range of fourth moves combned with great typing and a surprisingly relevant ability make Bisharp easily strong enough to warrant a place on the initial banlist.
- Status