XY UU Viability Ranking Thread

[WebBowser]

It also lacks physical bulk if not invested. Here is the link to the vaporeon discussion.

first off, ty for the link, but I didn't see any arguments for any particular ranking. Was enlightening anyway (I might post my own vap set on that thread in a bit).

Second off, saying it lacks phys bulk if uninvested can apply to a decent variety of pokemon who are fine on the phys side. Florges and chansey (yes I know chansey is OU) also lack physical bulk if they don't invest in it, and yet they both have plenty of phys bulk. Vaporeon has decent enough special bulk that even uninvested, it can still tank what it needs to. Also, many viable special attackers are either mixed or pseudo mixed (psyshock or secret sword) like almost all psychic types, Tornadus, and a few others, making that mixed bulk all the more desirable. Especially with chansey out of the picture, I think vap makes a perfectly viable mixed wall.

That being said, I think it's prolly fine in B+ due to Jellicent being in the same tier. Jellecent and vaporeon have a lot of similar strengths and weaknesses. Jellecent has the advantage of WoW, better typing, and reliable recovery. While Vap has the advantage of phazing and fat wish passing. While I am still scratching my head as to why they are both below tentacruel, I do not see any differences in relative strengths to justify putting vaporeon above or below jellicent.

 

[Yellow Cheese]

first off, ty for the link, but I didn't see any arguments for any particular ranking. Was enlightening anyway (I might post my own vap set on that thread in a bit).

Second off, saying it lacks phys bulk if uninvested can apply to a decent variety of pokemon who are fine on the phys side. Florges and chansey (yes I know chansey is OU) also lack physical bulk if they don't invest in it, and yet they both have plenty of phys bulk. Vaporeon has decent enough special bulk that even uninvested, it can still tank what it needs to. Also, many viable special attackers are either mixed or pseudo mixed (psyshock or secret sword) like almost all psychic types, Tornadus, and a few others, making that mixed bulk all the more desirable. Especially with chansey out of the picture, I think vap makes a perfectly viable mixed wall.

That being said, I think it's prolly fine in B+ due to Jellicent being in the same tier. Jellecent and vaporeon have a lot of similar strengths and weaknesses. Jellecent has the advantage of WoW, better typing, and reliable recovery. While Vap has the advantage of phazing and fat wish passing. While I am still scratching my head as to why they are both below tentacruel, I do not see any differences in relative strengths to justify putting vaporeon above or below jellicent.

Well, Tentacrual has a great defensive typing, immunity to toxic, Rapid spin, Great speed, knock off (like everything) and Toxic spikes. I agree on Jellicent and Vaporeon are about equal, But Tentacruel has the atributes above to make it a better Special wall and teamsupporter (to some degree) (Why do people use this thing as a mixed wall? EQ from everything still 2HKOs)

I just gave you the Discussion thread, sorry. The UU counsil desides the ranking of different pokemon (we as players make our suggestions and they deside from them combined with personal experience). If you want reason, Asking one of them is a good idea.

Also: Florges has meh physical bulk without investment, Its main atribute on the phyical side is resisting fighting, Dark and Bug types, and only being weak to uncommon attacking types.

 

[WebBowser]

Well, Tentacrual has a great defensive typing, immunity to toxic, Rapid spin, Great speed, knock off (like everything) and Toxic spikes. I agree on Jellicent and Vaporeon are about equal, But Tentacruel has the atributes above to make it a better Special wall and teamsupporter (to some degree) (Why do people use this thing as a mixed wall? EQ from everything still 2HKOs)

I just gave you the Discussion thread, sorry. The UU counsil desides the ranking of different pokemon (we as players make our suggestions and they deside from them combined with personal experience). If you want reason, Asking one of them is a good idea.

Also: Florges has meh physical bulk without investment, Its main atribute on the phyical side is resisting fighting, Dark and Bug types, and only being weak to uncommon attacking types.

scald and stuff like this...

252 Atk Krookodile Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 150-177 (32.3 - 38.1%) -- 0.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

are the reason why vaporeon is a decent mixed wall.

If it can survive invested, base 117 STAB EQ, then it can take a few other EQs as well. It may not be walling the top tier phys monsters, but it's far, far from unviable and it can take most neutral hits just fine, thank you very much.

The main reason to run sp defensive vap is to wall megastoise harder, but barring some serious flinch hax, phys defensive vap walls him just fine.

As for tenta, ty for the info. I haven't used it much myself and it has always come across as meh, but those are valid points.

*edit*

misunderstandings ftl! Sorry bout that, didn't realize you were still talking about tenta :(

 

[TheTraininator]

Say, how come regular Houndoom isn't ranked? Obviously its Mega has much more of a niche over it, but it has a lot of advantages too, like being able to hold boosting items, (and thus have a stronger Pursuit/Sucker Punch,) not taking up your Mega evolution, and being able to keep Flash Fire forever. I know it suffers a lot of competition from the many, many powerful UU Fire types, but I think it does have a niche and deserves to be ranked, though in which tier I could not tell you.

 

[Yellow Cheese]

scald and stuff like this...

252 Atk Krookodile Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 150-177 (32.3 - 38.1%) -- 0.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

are the reason why vaporeon is a decent mixed wall.

If it can survive invested, base 117 STAB EQ, then it can take a few other EQs as well. It may not be walling the top tier phys monsters, but it's far, far from unviable and it can take most neutral hits just fine, thank you very much.

The main reason to run sp defensive vap is to wall megastoise harder, but barring some serious flinch hax, phys defensive vap walls him just fine.

As for tenta, ty for the info. I haven't used it much myself and it has always come across as meh, but those are valid points.

I was talking about about tentacruel....

And you're welcome.

 

[eggman62]

I was just wondering whether anyone was considering moving Hariyama to A- like I suggested.

I've been experimenting with various different EV spreads and its shear versatility is just incredible, for example running an Impish nature with 252def, 252atk, 4spdef and assault vest gives it as much physical bulk as Gastrodon while thanks to its assault vest it possess as much special defence as Vaporeon. While its attack may initially seem low close combat still does a lot of damage furthermore thanks to guts Hariyama is a brilliant status absorber making it a reliable counter against pokemon like Jellicent who really on moves like will o wisp to cripple attackers.

Seriously Hariyama is a pokemon that has tremendous potential and In my opinion is quite possibly one of the best and unpredictable fighting types in the tier.

 

[dumbguyfin]

I was just wondering whether anyone was considering moving Hariyama to A- like I suggested.

I've been experimenting with various different EV spreads and its shear versatility is just incredible, for example running an Impish nature with 252def, 252atk, 4spdef and assault vest gives it as much physical bulk as Gastrodon while thanks to its assault vest it possess as much special defence as Vaporeon. While its attack may initially seem low close combat still does a lot of damage furthermore thanks to guts Hariyama is a brilliant status absorber making it a reliable counter against pokemon like Jellicent who really on moves like will o wisp to cripple attackers.

Seriously Hariyama is a pokemon that has tremendous potential and In my opinion is quite possibly one of the best and unpredictable fighting types in the tier.

I think that somewhere around B would be good for it. It can actually run a lot of sets, like assault vest (a la conkeldurr) or toxic orb powerhouse with double priority.

 

[eggman62]

I think that somewhere around B would be good for it. It can actually run a lot of sets, like assault vest (a la conkeldurr) or toxic orb powerhouse with double priority.

I am glad someone else realises Hariyamas potential but I really think it should be ranked A-. Anyone of Hariyama's assault vest sets outclass Machamp's, plus the shear unpredictability of Hariyama is definitely another factor it has going for it. Lets be honest a lot of pokemon in the current metagame are confined to running one set, this as we all know is a major disadvantage as it eradicates the element of surprise in battles. As such having the option to utilise a variety of different yet effective sets is Hariyama's main niche in the metagame, an ability that is sorely lacking and has resulted in a very one dimensional metagame.

 

[Yellow Cheese]

I am glad someone else realises Hariyamas potential but I really think it should be ranked A-. Anyone of Hariyama's assault vest sets outclass Machamp's, plus the shear unpredictability of Hariyama is definitely another factor it has going for it. Lets be honest a lot of pokemon in the current metagame are confined to running one set, this as we all know is a major disadvantage as it eradicates the element of surprise in battles. As such having the option to utilise a variety of different yet effective sets is Hariyama's main niche in the metagame, an ability that is sorely lacking and has resulted in a very one dimensional metagame.

I do like to use unpredictability as a factor when ranking mons, but by using that logic Mega-abomasnow should also be A/A+ rank, which it is not (B+ pls). If you're really into it, you should make a thread instead.

 

[EonX]

eggman62 , I wouldn't say that only being able to run a single set is always a disadvantage. Arguably the best offensive Mega Evolution in the tier (Mega Manectric) only has one viable set, but that doesn't hold it back from accomplishing different things depending on the situation. Florges, Umbreon, Hippowdon, and Cloyster only have slight variations on their movesets (Florges and Umbreon MIGHT carry Toxic. Hippo MAY carry Ice Fang. Cloyster either runs H-Pump or Ice Shard in its 4th slot) but they're still very effective. Also, I really wouldn't want to use Close Combat on a defensive Pokemon when Close Combat lowers your defenses upon use. Kinda defeats the purpose imo. I think one of the B ranks would be better for it. It can utilize Assault Vest nicely and Guts allows it to abuse Toxic Orb. But there are plenty of great AV users in the tier (Escavalier, Metagross, Entei) and as a Guts abuser, it suffers from direct competition with Heracross, a fellow Fighting-type.

 

[DiscoDucky]

Nidoking to A+

• Hands down best wallbreaker in the game.
• Focus Blast / Earth Power / Sludge Wave / Ice Beam has no counters
• Sits at a respectable Speed tier
• Fits on almost any offensive team composition in UU right now

 

[WebBowser]

EonX- Actually megaman has a couple of options (not sure whether or not you want to call them separate sets). He has to choose between overheat or flamethrower, flamethrower lets him keep any lightningrod boosts he might get, stay in longer, more accurate, but much less power on a mon who really needs power. Overheat has more power, but forces a volt switch almost immediately after, making him kinda predictable for that turn. He also faces a choice between timit and modest. Timid gives his base form more speed, but is mostly irrelevant for his mega form (only really relevant for +natured meloetta-P and +natured jolteon, and maybe a scarfer or two). Modest gives his megaform a fair bit more power at little cost, but his base form is much slower. There is also HP grass vs HP ice, ice is mostly for flygon and Salamence if he ever comes back, as well as giving him an option to nail other dragons on switch besides unmega amphy. Grass lets him own Quag, swampert, and gastro, and can nail hippo, krookadile and donphan on switch, but leaves him walled by any and all dragons.

 

[eggman62]

eggman62 , I wouldn't say that only being able to run a single set is always a disadvantage. Arguably the best offensive Mega Evolution in the tier (Mega Manectric) only has one viable set, but that doesn't hold it back from accomplishing different things depending on the situation. Florges, Umbreon, Hippowdon, and Cloyster only have slight variations on their movesets (Florges and Umbreon MIGHT carry Toxic. Hippo MAY carry Ice Fang. Cloyster either runs H-Pump or Ice Shard in its 4th slot) but they're still very effective. Also, I really wouldn't want to use Close Combat on a defensive Pokemon when Close Combat lowers your defenses upon use. Kinda defeats the purpose imo. I think one of the B ranks would be better for it. It can utilize Assault Vest nicely and Guts allows it to abuse Toxic Orb. But there are plenty of great AV users in the tier (Escavalier, Metagross, Entei) and as a Guts abuser, it suffers from direct competition with Heracross, a fellow Fighting-type.

While I completely agree with your point about Mega manetric I think there is a big difference between changing particular moves on a set to being able to run completely different sets. For example while you have a choice to run flamethrower or overheat on Mega manetric your opponent will always know it has a fire type move and as such they will be able to send in a reliable counter. This also applies to Florges and Umbreon as while they might carry toxic choosing to do so, in some ways has a detrimental effect as they are focered to forgo another move that is in many ways critical to their success.

Hariyiama on the other hand is privileged to be able to run multiple sets which as I have mentioned before are completely viable and lead to you having the element of surprise in battles. While running close combat on a defensive pokemon is often considered counter productive - due to the defence drops - Hariyama's low speed access to fake out, bullet punch and guts are majors tools in its arsenal as it allows it KO opposing pokemon before they can retaliate.
statistical speaking, Hariyama running assault vest is a lot bulker than Machamp, its stab is stronger and it has priority to mitigate the defence drops of it stab also guts allows it to double a status absorber. Put bluntly Hariyama clearly outclasses Machamp so I am just struggling to understand why it is such a big issue to put it in A-

 

[jbtc10]

Nidoking to A+

• Hands down best wallbreaker in the game.
• Focus Blast / Earth Power / Sludge Wave / Ice Beam has no counters
• Sits at a respectable Speed tier
• Fits on almost any offensive team composition in UU right now

Bronzong is probably the closest thing to a straight counter. Can't be 3hko'd by Focus Miss Blast after Lefties and 2hko's with Psychic or EQ. Outside of him, yeh, he's pretty scary. Thankfully, the nature of his STAB's means that it's at least possible to pivot into a check, although it's not always reliable because it comes down to prediction. I do agree he has potential to be A+, because of being a key weapon against Stall oriented teams and a pretty big threat in his own right against offense as well.

There are also other options for dealing with him such as Assault Vest users like Slowbro/Slowking, who can avoid the 2HKO from any of King's moves, then KO back with Psychic or Surf with a bit of investment. They also have the benefit of Regenerator, which helps them be able to check/counter him better than others can over the course of the game.

 

[WebBowser]

jbtc10 Doesn't Nidoking get fire blast? That might screw with zong a bit.

eggman62 Machamp gets bullet punch too. STAB 40 BP priority move isn't doing either of them that many favors though tbqh, even when you factor in fake out damage. If you aren't at least close to OHKOing with CC after that fake out, you're kinda screwed. Also, Machamp gets guts and even elemental punches for accurate coverage moves, so it's not like machamp can't run guts, it's that everyone seems to love d-punch for whatever reason.

*edit*

ginormous move lists op

 

[eggman62]

jbtc10 Doesn't Nidoking get fire blast? That might screw with zong a bit.

eggman62 Machamp gets bullet punch too. STAB 40 BP priority move isn't doing either of them that many favors though tbqh, even when you factor in fake out damage. If you aren't at least close to OHKOing with CC after that fake out, you're kinda screwed. Also, Machamp gets guts and even elemental punches for accurate coverage moves, so it's not like machamp can't run guts, it's that everyone seems to love d-punch for whatever reason.

WebBowser Running a combination of close combat, fake out and bullet punch does a minimum of 96% damage to Mega blastoise, now based on the fact that it is highly unlikely that all three moves will do the absolute minimum amount of damage, it is safe to assume that Hariyama can KO blastiose before it can retaliate against -Hariyama's- weakened defence. Furthermore while Machamp does get the elemental punches Hariyama is arguably better at utilising them as it gets sheer force giving and it can use a recoil free life orb to make its coverage even stronger.

 

[EonX]

I still just dislike the idea of running Close Combat on a defensive Pokemon. It reminds me of Gallade from BW RU (a Pokemon I'm incredibly familiar with) in that about the only way its bulkier sets worked so well was due to its access to Drain Punch for a safer STAB move. (I'm talking Bulky SD, BU, and SpDef) Granted, Hariyama doesn't have access to Drain Punch, but even still, I don't really like lowering defenses on a defensive Pokemon. Besides, I really don't think that the opponent is going to bring in Mega Blastoise on a strong neutral attack like Close Combat if he can help it. Surely he's got something like Florges, Crobat, Slowbro, or Mew to take the hit instead of Mega Blastoise, in which case Hariyama is easily forced out (except for maybe Florges)

 

[WebBowser]

Hariyama only has thunder punch, machamp gets fire punch and more importantly ice punch. Hariyama does get sheer force, I will grant you that. Sadly, I cannot think of a sheer force boosted fighting type move or I would seriously consider sheer force Hariyama to be a thing.

So a few things.

1. As eon has stated, CC's defense reduction makes hariyama very easy to force out after the first CC, being easily forced out is generally not a good thing for bulky mons.

2. the Fake out - CC combo can only be used on the first turn of the swap in, making it even harder to leave hariyama in

3. I'm guessing his fourth move is knock off or ice punch? If so, he is completely and utterly walled by florges, esp if florges swaps into CC.

252+ Atk Hariyama Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Florges: 140-165 (38.8 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Hariyama Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Florges: 124-148 (34.4 - 41.1%) -- 65% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Florges Moonblast vs. -1 252 HP / 4 SpD Hariyama: 512-606 (104 - 123.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Ok, so walled is a bad term. Threatened is prolly better.

Also, I misread hari's moveset and missed ice punch lol. Mb, there really isn't much reason to run gutschamp over hariyama. They have startlingly similar movepools.

 

[CoolStoryBrobat]

Sadly, I cannot think of a sheer force boosted fighting type move or I would seriously consider sheer force Hariyama to be a thing.

There's Force Palm, if anything. Factoring in STAB and Sheer Force, it effectively has a nice 120 BP, compared to Close Combat's 180 BP after STAB. Of course it's significantly weaker than Close Combat but still a viable alternative since you don't get any drops from it. And has at least a respectable amount of PP.

Also not that I deem it much of a relevant move, but I do know Hariyama gets Heavy Slam. I think someone somewhere in this subforum posted a set with Heavy Slam on it specifically to nail Florges, since he EV'd his Hariyama to speed creep it.

252+ Atk Hariyama Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Florges: 374-440 (103.8 - 122.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Hariyama Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Florges: 248-294 (68.8 - 81.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Sadly though that's kind of all you would want to run Heavy Slam for, since Bullet Punch at least compensates by also being priority that might save you somewhere...

 

[radianthero156]

AV hariyama should use cc, knock off, heavy slam then a filler like ice punch, fake out, stone edge or whatever. i am yet to test it with guts, but, with thick fat, it is a great utility pokemon that counters bizarre threats like mega houndoom and kyurem, as well as being a strong offensive presence that can spam powerful close combats, while luring mons like florges (heavy slam does 72% minimum to 252 hp/def bold florges, while OHKOing spdef ones)

 

[eggman62]

I still just dislike the idea of running Close Combat on a defensive Pokemon. It reminds me of Gallade from BW RU (a Pokemon I'm incredibly familiar with) in that about the only way its bulkier sets worked so well was due to its access to Drain Punch for a safer STAB move. (I'm talking Bulky SD, BU, and SpDef) Granted, Hariyama doesn't have access to Drain Punch, but even still, I don't really like lowering defenses on a defensive Pokemon. Besides, I really don't think that the opponent is going to bring in Mega Blastoise on a strong neutral attack like Close Combat if he can help it. Surely he's got something like Florges, Crobat, Slowbro, or Mew to take the hit instead of Mega Blastoise, in which case Hariyama is easily forced out (except for maybe Florges)

lool while Hariyama can run a fully defensive set the assault vest set, which is the set I am trying to prove is an A- mon is not a defensive set. Hariyama as we all know has an incredible HP stat so incredible that uninvested it is still higher than Gastrodons, as such this allows you to invest in either its special defence or defence. Investing in the former while running an assault vest gives Hari enough bulk to survive 2 choiced speced thunderbolts from jolteon in which case close combat - even without a guts boost - will OHKO anyway. On the other hand investing in the latter gives Hari very similar physical bulk to gastrodon while the assault vest in turn gives it practically identical special bulk as physically defensive vaporean. Hariyamas balanced bulk and access to two forms of priority is exactly why running close combat is not as detrimental to it as opposed to other pokemon like Gallade or Machamp.

Furthermore while yes the opponent could just switch out because of Hariyama's unpredictability if I predict his switch he could just end up loosing a pokemon as all the pokemon you listed if Hari is carrying the right move can be Koed before they can realiate. Florges switching into a close combat even without rocks on the field takes a minimum of 58 - 68.3% worth of damage in which case it can just be KOed the next turn with bullet punch. If I am running thunderpunch and predict a switch into crobat it takes a minimum of 81.8 - 96.7% if rocks are up it is a guaranteed OHKO and regardless if they are not I can ko it next turn with bullet punch.
In a similar light the opponent has to be weary about switching in slowbro as if I predict and I am running thunderpunch it does a minimum of 43.6 - 51.7% which after stealth rocks and the fact Hari is faster there is a 64.5% chance to 2HKO it plus there is also the possibility I could be running knock off. The combination of stealth rocks a guts boosted fake out, stab guts boosted close combat and guts boosted bullet punch is very hard for most pokemon to shrug of and exactly why using close combat is not a problem :)

There's Force Palm, if anything. Factoring in STAB and Sheer Force, it effectively has a nice 120 BP, compared to Close Combat's 180 BP after STAB. Of course it's significantly weaker than Close Combat but still a viable alternative since you don't get any drops from it. And has at least a respectable amount of PP.

Also not that I deem it much of a relevant move, but I do know Hariyama gets Heavy Slam. I think someone somewhere in this subforum posted a set with Heavy Slam on it specifically to nail Florges, since he EV'd his Hariyama to speed creep it.

252+ Atk Hariyama Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Florges: 374-440 (103.8 - 122.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Hariyama Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Florges: 248-294 (68.8 - 81.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Sadly though that's kind of all you would want to run Heavy Slam for, since Bullet Punch at least compensates by also being priority that might save you somewhere...

I've been testing force palm and I think it works really well on a more defensively orientated Hariyma, as even without a guts, sheer force or life orb boost it is only slightly weaker than snorlax's body slam.

 

[newfren]

Nidoking to A+

• Hands down best wallbreaker in the game.
• Focus Blast / Earth Power / Sludge Wave / Ice Beam has no counters
• Sits at a respectable Speed tier
• Fits on almost any offensive team composition in UU right now

I agree with the ranking - nidoking is a machine in uu right now - but I'd like to point out that Specially Defensive Mew can come in on any move it wants and do a huge chunk of damage to it with psychic - if it switches into stealth rock twice you get something like a 60% chance to KO. With 152 EVs in Spa you get the OHKO after 1 switch into stealth rock, and you still live 2 sludge waves with 252/100+ spdef investment. Specially Offensive Mew can come in on any move it likes and outspeed and KO if it's running Psychic over Psyshock.

More offensive AV Slowbro can come in on any move it likes, avoid the 2HKO, and kill 94% of the time with a scald. Then it regenerates its health back. Although if Nidoking is running Thunderbolt then Slowbro doesn't want to come in on it.

 

[Jvasss]

while not particularly relevant, assault vest snorlax can also take on nidoking to a certain extent
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Focus Blast vs. 16 HP / 236 SpD Assault Vest Snorlax: 166-198 (35.6 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
and if nidoking doesn't have focus blast
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Sludge Wave vs. 16 HP / 236 SpD Assault Vest Snorlax: 99-118 (21.2 - 25.3%) -- 99.6% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
while
252+ Atk Snorlax Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Nidoking: 264-312 (86.8 - 102.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
not sure how relevant these calcs are, cos i am not to sure how much snorlax is actually being used, and i dont think that many assualt vests are beign run either

 

[Schpoonman]

Assault Vest Snorlax is a poor answer to Nidoking on his own, he'll get worn down by repeated hits, Nidoking's teammates, and entry hazards because he can't recover any HP. With Wish support he'd be more of a stop, but it'd still be just as easy for them to predict the switch to Snorlax and go to their own Heracross.

 

[EonX]

Billtodamax , your description with AV Slowbro is the precise reason that Nidoking should be A+ or even S rank. You have no clue what coverage it could be running. STAB moves are a given, no doubt. Then what? Probably Focus Blast since it beats up Umbreon and P2, but what if Nidoking's team doesn't struggle with those things? Well, there's Fire Blast, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, and even Shadow Ball. If it packs the right move, anything other than SpDef Mew is 2HKOed at worst. Fact is, even when you're bringing in your primary answer to it, you can't be really sure that it's safe until Nidoking reveals its coverage moves (or switches out of what you brought in) unless that answer is SpDef Mew. Nidoking quite literally has one safe switch-in that can sustain throughout the entire match. AV Snorlax will not sustain. All it takes is 2 rounds of Stealth Rock and 2 switch-ins to Sludge Wave to drop it into KO range of Focus Blast. So, basically, AV Snorlax forces King out once, but not twice. Here's what Nidoking's coverage beats:

Focus Blast: Umbreon, Porygon2, non-AV Snorlax
Fire Blast: Bronzong, AV Escavalier, SpDef Roserade, Trevenant
Thunderbolt: AV Slowbro, Vaporeon, Jellicent, Crobat, Mega Blastoise
Ice Beam: SpDef Roserade, Trevenant, Crobat, Zygarde
Shadow Ball: Trevenant, Jellicent, AV Slowbro, Bronzong
and Nidoking is guaranteed to have any two of these moves alongside its STAB moves. You tell me how you're going to respond to it safely outside of SpDef Mew.