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You bad? (Peak #5)

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by Banedon, Nov 1, 2011.

?

How did I get so high on the ladder with such a bad team?

  1. You are too good at the game

    2 vote(s)
    8.3%
  2. Your opponents are too bad at the game

    8 vote(s)
    33.3%
  3. You wear too many good luck charms

    5 vote(s)
    20.8%
  4. Your team isn't as bad as you think it is

    9 vote(s)
    37.5%
  1. Banedon

    Banedon

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2009
    Messages:
    903
    This team is one of the most unconventional I've ever seen. It breaks a lot of common teambuilding rules. It catches people off-guard. It looks absurd. It works. I got to #5 on the ladder with a rating of around 1420 on my alt HailPressure, and have played and won against several of the top teams on the ladder (albeit my game vs. DetroitLolCat was unrated). In a ladder much more competitive than during my other team's tenure at the top and with a team as superficially terrible as this one, I'm quite proud of this achievement. While the team wins, it is also not one of my more stable teams, and a wrong move can easily cost the game.

    This team began as an attempt to use hail not to abuse Snow Cloak or spam Blizzards, but to exploit that extra 6% damage a turn to add extra power to my attacks. That's the origin of the name "HailPressure" - hail is there as extra "pressure" on my opponent's team. If the concept sounds silly, that's because it is. My team of Abomasnow, a few Ice-type sweepers and as many Magic Guard users I could lay my hands on just didn't work. I lost my first few games horribly and weaknesses were everywhere. I had to fall back to something more conventional.

    I twisted and turned and eventually settled on Blizzspam. That's about as far as convention goes, though. Just read on :)

    [​IMG]
    Abomasnow (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SDef
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Wood Hammer
    - Ice Shard
    - Protect
    - Leech Seed

    Naturally every hail team must have an Abomasnow. The Abomasnow set I tried changed repeatedly, but as the team evolved it became obvious I have trouble with Flygon. The first solution that popped into my head was killing it with Ice Shard, and so here we have Abmoasnow's set. The Attack EVs are necessary to kill Flygon, while Leech Seed helps a lot with keeping Abomasnow alive. In a weather war vs. Hippowdon, that healing matters all the more.

    [​IMG]
    Glaceon (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Ice Body
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Blizzard
    - Shadow Ball
    - Hidden Power [Ground]
    - Ice Beam

    I admit, Glaceon first forced itself into reckoning when I remembered WhiteQueen's DPP UU team. It is the single most powerful Blizzard spammer in the tier. What more can I say? Blizzard is obvious, and really the remaining moves are mostly filler. Shadow Ball hasn't been very useful, but it does hit Slowbro (and Froslass and Victini and Chandelure I know, but those aren't as significant as Blizzard dents them all). I have HP Ground over HP Electric simply because I started with it and barely changed since. I've used it to kill Cobalion, Arcanine, Chandelure etc though. Arcanine and Chandelure are 2HKOed by Blizzard if they switch into Glaceon with Stealth Rock down, but then again having HP Ground allows me to revenge them. Empoleon and other bulky waters I have Abomasnow and Rotom-F to deal with. Finally, Ice Beam is there simply to have a powerful STAB attack I can use outside of hail. It also allows Glaceon to act as a lead against sand teams. Unfortunately Hippowdon often isn't OHKOed by Ice Beam, but if it stays in to tank the damage I've won the weather war.

    [​IMG]
    Nidoqueen (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Poison Point
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Blizzard
    - Stealth Rock
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Roar

    My one and only Rock resist. Nidoqueen serves a very important defensive role, doing things like taking Scarf Flygon's Stone Edges and absorbing Toxic Spikes. The moveset is pretty standard. Stealth Rock is necessary even though I have Xatu because my opponent will probably not set it up for me, while Toxic Spikes is the best entry hazard in the game if the other team has no absorbers. Blizzard is simply because I have other Blizzard spammers in the team. It's not that strong, but I attack so rarely with Nidoqueen it's not had much of a difference.

    Back in the day I did try to use Froslass in this slot, reasoning that it's too strong to give up, but running with a heart-stopping six (!!!) Rock-weak Pokemon simply doesn't work. Big surprise, lol.

    [​IMG]
    Rotom-F @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Trick
    - Volt Switch
    - Thunderbolt
    - Blizzard

    Yes, a second Choice Scarfed Pokemon. Don't ask. It caught many players by surprise too - some have switched Zapdos into Rotom-F for a free Heat Wave, only to die again. I try to explain it by saying that Rotom-F and Glaceon aren't revenge killers, but sweepers, and hence they don't serve duplicate functions on the team.

    Rotom-F is one of the most powerful sweepers on a hail team with STAB BoltBeam, and it fully deserves the spot on my team. Trick and the second Electric STAB also helps with breaking down defensive teams, threatening bulky waters when Abomasnow can't help. The difference in Blizzard power between Glaceon and Rotom-F is small but noticeable, and I choose which sweeper to use accordingly (that, and the fact that Glaceon gets Ice Body, making it less vulnerable to Stealth Rock).

    [​IMG]
    Xatu (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Night Shade
    - Reflect
    - Roost
    - U-turn

    I've got so many Rock-weak Pokemon on my team that it became clear I can't afford to spin Stealth Rock - I have to stop them going up in the first place. Hence I have Xatu. This set is stolen from ToF's U-turn team in the OU RMTs, but with a specially defensive spread because I need to survive Roserade's uninvested Sludge Bomb. I'm not sure the moves are optimal, but they work and I use all of them, so I haven't changed anything.

    Xatu is uncommon for a reason. It can't stop Froslass from putting down Spikes (although Froslass Spiking vs. Xatu is also a dangerous prediction), Roserade seriously restricts Xatu if it gets a Sludge Bomb poison, etc. But I need Xatu. I don't have a choice.

    [​IMG]
    Chandelure (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 248 HP / 180 Def / 80 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Pain Split
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Taunt
    - Shadow Ball

    Here's another funky Pokemon on a funky team. I originally chose Chandelure because I needed its resists - immunity to Fighting and Fire is very important indeed. After that I needed a defensive Pokemon; offensive Chandelure kills itself with hail in effect. It just so happened that at the time PK Gaming was pushing a defensive Chandelure set through QC, and I simply took it and started using it.

    Taunt has been helpful in stopping walls from recovering and wearing stuff like Chansey down, not to mention stopping Suicune and co from using Sleep Talk. Pain Split and Will-O-Wisp are necessary on defensive Chandelure, while I chose Shadow Ball as the attacking move just so there is no type conflict (WoW + Flamethrower is completely walled by other Chandelure, for instance). Sure, Chandelure can't hit Snorlax at all now, but a burned Snorlax is going to kill Chandelure veeeeery slooooowly, allowing plenty of time to go to another Pokemon on a predicted attack.

    Eventually FlareBlitz suggested 80 speed EVs to outrun Suicune, which on hindsight looks like a very good suggestion, and so here we are. I chose not to follow his advice on SpA EVs, though. Chandelure isn't going to sweep much, if at all, so might as well sink all EVs into defensive sets.

    Threat list

    This team has so many weaknesses it would be futile to list them all. It has FIVE Rock weaknesses, for Arceus's sake. It's still better than when I tried six Rock weaknesses, but still ... if Stealth Rock ever goes up, I have trouble. In the end it means I often stay in with Xatu vs. my opponent's Stealth Rocker (or attempt to switch out to Glaceon / Rotom-F to kill it before he can put up SR).

    There are plenty of Pokemon that will kill something each time they switch in. For example, if Chandelure comes in unscathed something is (usually) going to die. So be it. I choose one poor Pokemon to sacrifice, and then bring in Glaceon / Rotom-F to revenge. I do have two Scarfed Pokemon and one Ice Shard, so I am usually be able to revenge. In between trading kills left right and centre, I wear down my opponent's Ice resists, and then push for the sweep with Scarf Blizzard. Other such Pokemon include Flygon (I typically pray that it is Scarfed and switch to resists, keeping Abomasnow alive if it kills something), Kingdra with Rain Dance (ew), and Alakazam (this bugger survives Glaceon's Blizzard at full health, wtf).

    In the face of all these weaknesses, how was the team so successful as to reach #5 on the ladder? I honestly am not sure. You vote and tell me :)
  2. Yeah Galo Sengan

    Yeah Galo Sengan

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2007
    Messages:
    494
    Yeah I've faced this a few times and always lost. The key seems to be you pummeling things with so many stab scarfed blizzards that they can't keep up a defense.

    Have you considered replacing Xatu with a dedicated spinner? It may be more useful to you than trying to predict a sr and eating a super effective hit, something like foresight Blastoise/Hitmontop? Hitmontop would work especially, as it alleviates the rock weakness that plagues your team, and could also serve as a last ditch defense against those damn Alakazams running amok in uu.
  3. shnen

    shnen שוני
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2011
    Messages:
    873
    This looks like a good hail team, the weather which is often forgotten now that sands dominance of uu is in full swing. I am seconding gungnirs mention of hitmontop, but you might want to keep xatu for whatever reason(and there are many, being the best status taker in the game, and reflecting hazards instead of just removing them.) However, reflect doesn't seem to be doing too much, especially without light clay, so if you feel like it is necessary, you could run the required speed to outrun min rade, and run psyshock over reflect, but then I am not sure whether he can take uninvested sludge bombs... Idk. Anyway, this is a very interesting team from a great uu player, and good luck!
  4. -Manu-

    -Manu-

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2010
    Messages:
    636
    Hum I think Darminatan and more exactly U-Turn teams are big threat for your team . I think Blastoise can help with darminatan and Spin . Machamp , Alakazam , Tornadus , Rotom-H are big threat for you . And KingdraSpec rape you with DM . You don't have any special staller .

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