-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Zoroark
- Thread starter jumpluff
- Start date
Tentacruel removes Toxic Spikes, the suggestion to have a non-shadow tag gocherizeru would mean it has frisk, which gives off a message, and Gengar has levitate and has similar counters besides those who try to exploit their typing. There are some extra combos that could be used with type resistance berries, so even though those give out an activation message, you still get a turn.
Edit:Use Night Burst with Gengar, as your disguise would be revealed if you are using dark moves.
Edit:Use Night Burst with Gengar, as your disguise would be revealed if you are using dark moves.
In case this wasn't beaten enough, I don't think he was kidding. If Zoroark is common enough, nearly any time people see a Dark Pulse thrown out, they'll assume it's Zoroark in a disguise, and switch into their "Zoroark" counter. Heatran 4x resists Bug moves like U-Turn or Bug Buzz that you would hit Zoroark with, and can really mess with people in that regard. Then you bring in your real Zoroark later disguised as something else, and then your opponent is really confused as to what's what - They'll think the Species Clause broke or something if they see two "Zoroark". I hope that made sense...
The only issues I see are that both are weak to Fighting, which is a really dominant type this generation more than ever, and that Heatran's immune to Toxic Spikes. While I've only seen TSpikes once so far, if they're up there goes your surprise. Also, Zoroark isn't quite common enough in my opinion for this to be as effective. If some other Dark Pulse user could pull this off as well, it could be a rather epic way to make you opponent's mind jelly. Lots of things learn Dark Pulse as a TM in Generation IV you could transfer over (even Gyarados and Aggron... weird...).
Actually, this idea just occured to me but you know the best Illusion Partners to Zoroark are? Mew (while it is legal OU but I bet once people realize how ridiculous it is, it will be moved back to Uber) and Kyurem. Yes, that's right, Kyurem (without Stealth Rock up since Stealth Rock kind of ruins the idea). But as long as you pull it off, it no longer matters if they know.
What are Kyurem's main counters? Steel types. Who roasts them with utter ease? Zoroark. Scissor, Jirachi, Metagross will all die. The only other problem is Breloom due to Mach Punch and potentially Roopushin because of Zoroark's dark typing.
But still, Zoroark as Kyurem and Mew are SCARY since Zoroark is such a good lure to their switchins and kills them with EASE. Allowing Kyurem/Mew to beat the crap out of your opponent's team...
What are Kyurem's main counters? Steel types. Who roasts them with utter ease? Zoroark. Scissor, Jirachi, Metagross will all die. The only other problem is Breloom due to Mach Punch and potentially Roopushin because of Zoroark's dark typing.
But still, Zoroark as Kyurem and Mew are SCARY since Zoroark is such a good lure to their switchins and kills them with EASE. Allowing Kyurem/Mew to beat the crap out of your opponent's team...
Kyurem is a no go idea since it has pressure. The very second a kyurem is sent out and pressure isn't exerted it people will get suspicious :x
Mew's at least a possibility but...you can't really control what they're going to switch into when facing a mew since they won't know what to expect (unlimited options after all). It'd probably be safe to use a substitute as your first move though. That way you can maintain the illusion and keep the unpredictablilty factor.
I have an idea on agility set
Zoroark@Life Orb/Focus Sash
Modest, 252 HP, 252 SpA, 4 Def
-Dark Pulse/Night Burst
-Flamethrower
-Focus Blast
-Agility
After +2 speed he is run out every unboost spe pokemon with not need investment any EV on speed that we can spread on HP to make it little bulk, it can spread more EV to speed to run out some scarf too.
@Zuburaika fixed it, First I run on mix set with sucker punch but I realize that you run out every thing why you need sucker punch? I forgot to change nature when change it.
Zoroark@Life Orb/Focus Sash
Modest, 252 HP, 252 SpA, 4 Def
-Dark Pulse/Night Burst
-Flamethrower
-Focus Blast
-Agility
After +2 speed he is run out every unboost spe pokemon with not need investment any EV on speed that we can spread on HP to make it little bulk, it can spread more EV to speed to run out some scarf too.
@Zuburaika fixed it, First I run on mix set with sucker punch but I realize that you run out every thing why you need sucker punch? I forgot to change nature when change it.
Gengar cn actually pull off a fake Zoroark quite nicely with Dark Pulse and Focus Blast if need be. Use Dark Pulse to kill something and they'll think you're a Zoroark as Zoroark often is disguised as Gengar. Then whether they use a Bug or Fighting move they are hose as Gengar is resistant to one and immune to the other. Free kill for you. Then of course there is whoever your real Zoroark is disguised as!
Also, Night Burst vs. Dark pulse
Which one is better? I prefer DP due it is no miss.
Which one is better? I prefer DP due it is no miss.
If you actually want to disguise as a pokemon that can use Dark Pulse to keep the masquerade going longer than use it because Night Burst is a dead give away. Also I think the flinch side effect is better than the accuracy drop since Zoroark is decently fast and the power difference is pretty small.
Night Bursts Accuracy Down might be helpful, especially when facing things with Fire Blast, Hypnosis, etc. Dark Pulse does hide you better, because the only common Pokemon to really use night burst is Zoroark.(AKA, as soon as you use Night Burst they know your Zoroark) I'd say it's more on preference really.
If you don't care about disguising it, then it depends on whether Night Burst gets any relevant KOs that Dark Pulse doesn't. Someone who knows the metagame better than me could probably answer that, but if it does help it beat any significant threats, then it will probably help you more on average than the miss chance will hurt. Flinch versus accuracy drop isn't a big deal, the former since most of the big threats are faster than it and/or priority users, and the latter because it's more unreliable.
If you do want to keep the disguise while attacking with the move of choice, then obviously Dark Pulse is better, since nothing else has Night Burst (unless you're disguised as Smeargle for trolling purposes or something).
The issue here is that neither Gengar or Zoroark are bulky enough to require super-effective attacks to take down. One solid neutral hit will drop Gengar just fine, and even resisted attacks will hit Zoroark pretty hard. I wouldn't give up Gengar's STAB, either - it's frail enough that it's in trouble if it doesn't OHKO.
You miss the point though. If you're pulling a reversal to make people think you are Zoroark than they are going to switch in most likely a pokemon with a fighting move to take it out, which there are plenty of, and Gengar just happens to be immune to. So they go oh snap while you get free damage and KOs.
Why would they switch to something with a fighting move? Zoroark's pathetic 60/60/60 defenses are such that it can't even take a decent neutral hit - why bother switching (and giving that monster 120 SpAtk a free hit) when any STABed attack will do just fine? Just whack it with Surf or something, as long as you can get the attack off it'll likely drop dead on the spot. Since Gengar's stats are basically the same, it doesn't really matter whether you deceive your foe or not, because the same problem applies: you don't need SE attacks to OHKO them.
Any sane player on seeing ANY Pokemon use Dark Pulse will check out the attack listing fr the move, and hit the mon with a mvoe taht will sting it regardless of it is Zoroark. Zoroark's real utility is to fire a predicted attack on a switch in and kill it.
Yes, but if Gengar KOs something with Dark Pulse (which is highly likely), and you believe it's a Zoroark, then why would you not switch in a fighting counter? Fighting types happen to resist Dark attacks, which would be useful on the chance that the opponent is scarfed. Is this kind of thinking really that unfeasible?
You're referring to what happens in the current metagame, which isn't false.
I'm referring to what SHOULD happen, because Gengar + Zoroark is fairly popular, players ought to be prepared for bluffs and double bluffs.
I'm referring to what SHOULD happen, because Gengar + Zoroark is fairly popular, players ought to be prepared for bluffs and double bluffs.
Fake-Out leads like Kojondo and Infernape got popular because of this pokemon. Ditto lead vs. lead Zoroark puts ditto in an odd position but tells you it is a Zoroark lead, because if ditto comes in on a Zoroark disguised as another pokemon, Ditto can't transform with its ability Eccentric
Can someone please give me a list of common pokemon that use Dark Pulse because i cant think of one...Oh wait Sazandora...well one -___-
I had mine posing as burengeru and it worked quite well. It's not gengar so no one is suspicious (which occured when I did use Gengar for my illusion) and most peeps come in setup so I just KO before that, Nats set up on buru as well and Flamethrower torches them. Run Shadow ball for concealement purposes.