Many such cases! Worse still, this has been the case since the beginning of DLC1 yet nothing has been done, DLC1 even prioritized pointless bans like roaring moon and ones that actively made the game worse like Gliscor over dealing with the waterpon problem and that's part of why it was the very worst iteration of SV - waterpon has been a blight on this tier for nearly 6 months now. Those of you going "why are they coming so hard after waterpon," this is why, because it has been a problem for 6 months now and we finally have a chance to do something about it
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4
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Many such cases! Worse still, this has been the case since the beginning of DLC1 yet nothing has been done, DLC1 even prioritized pointless bans like roaring moon and ones that actively made the game worse like Gliscor over dealing with the waterpon problem and that's part of why it was the very worst iteration of SV - waterpon has been a blight on this tier for nearly 6 months now. Those of you going "why are they coming so hard after waterpon," this is why, because it has been a problem for 6 months now and we finally have a chance to do something about it
Please elaborate on this, in great detail
I did think it was worse before. But the additional strength of dlc additions made it barable. Arch gone, it's stronger and will get better with each ban. Its matchup vs stall may get it prioritized sooner though idk
Eventual tiering action in some form on Gouging Fire seems likely.
What do you mean? Are you saying people's opinions that 'this is fine', even if not the best judgement, should be ignored? That's not how democracy works.
No. What if you want tera to be kicked first before anything else? Then, you'd think Tera was the root cause of everything and you would look at the other things with a 'if tera was gone' worldview. How is that 'to fit your needs, not a competitive one'?
Also, WHAT DO YOU MEAN with that? If it doesn't fit your vision of 'competitive' it should be banned? Should we just ignore all the tera ban advocate votes due to your own personal bias? Is it illegal to have fun on a game?
Just going to state I don't believe in this, but... yeah. Could happen. Pretty sure, though not 100% certain, that RaikouLover said something like this (Can I have some clarification if this was what you meant before?).
I don't even play SV OU that much anymore and I saw this coming.
What are some examples of votes that have been cast that you think should be thrown out
Damn bro lives rent free in your head for being one of the only brave enough to criticize Tera, despite him being perfectly respectful to those he disagrees with and recognizing everyone is entitled to their own opinions
naw, I meant that he had the same argument that tera should have been kicked, not that he is rude (except the, you know, self proclaimed salt posts after each survey)
case closed.
(no, but I personally believe these things should be banned:
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normal gem is DEMOLISHING the OU meta rn, must've been a write in for many people. Can't believe the ou council didn't give a survey slot for something that enables many speedy threats such as espeed dnite, unburden hawlucha, and acrobatics moon(no, but I personally believe these things should be banned:
jokes aside: gouging qb, ghold or bolt suspect, could take or leave the rest
Not sure I understand the context so I will reiterate my position.
I think Tera is the biggest problem in Gen 9. I want it banned. Most of the problems in my opinion start there. However, I am NOT “Tera Ban or bust.” I am open to all of the following:
-Full Tera Ban
-Any and all Tera restrictions short of the full ban
-Banning Pokémon that are unhealthy due to Tera
-Banning Pokémon that are unhealthy irrespective of Tera
Hope that clarifies!
volcarona commonly invests in physical bulk and has flame body to punish physical attackers and morning sun for reliable recovery. back in pre-HOME it even ran mono-attacking sets w/ will-o-wisp to set up on dragonite n the like. same can't really be said for roaring moon
yet another dub for the ogerpon nation. we stay winning girlies
People comparing the bulk of Moon versus Volc should include all the bulk stats, not just base defense of 71 to 65. Moon has higher HP (105 to 85) and 4 less special defense (101 to 105). Moon actually has pretty decent natural bulk. And for as much as Dark/Dragon has weaknesses, there are also a lot of handy resistances in that natural typing. It's not a glass cannon, particularly when you factor in the Tera wild card.
Volc has to boost to be better at special defense because of the HP difference. Quiver Dance doesn't boost power or speed faster than Dragon Dance does. From a setup standpoint, both snowball similarly. But Moon's turnaround is often faster. And Volc is just as vulnerable to physical attackers and therefore most of the priority in the tier, but without as many resistances to priority as Moon. Flame Body requires a lucky proc, and even at this point, it's basically trading the priority mon for the mon that would have swept their team. Unless Tera. But then both mons can do that.
Volc has to boost to be better at special defense because of the HP difference. Quiver Dance doesn't boost power or speed faster than Dragon Dance does. From a setup standpoint, both snowball similarly. But Moon's turnaround is often faster. And Volc is just as vulnerable to physical attackers and therefore most of the priority in the tier, but without as many resistances to priority as Moon. Flame Body requires a lucky proc, and even at this point, it's basically trading the priority mon for the mon that would have swept their team. Unless Tera. But then both mons can do that.
Neither are glass cannons but the fact remains Volcarona has more defensive utility and runs bulky sets often. Plus, it resists U-Turn and can cripple physical attackers with Flame Body.
Volcarona is not susceptible to our priority options at all:
Grassy Glide - 4X resist. Threatens Rilla back with death and burns
Extremespeed - threatens burn to Dragonite and doesn’t do much to bulky Volcs until Dragonite obtains boosts. Furthermore, Dragonite doesn’t want to Tera here as it loses its typing advantage.
Ice Shard - Resists and threatens burn. Bulky Volc is a soft Weavile check
Sucker Punch - Volc threatens burn or further set up and kills Kingambit unless it Teras
Thunderclap - set up fodder. Volc is at +2/+2/+2 and probably ran away with the game already
Bullet Punch - lol. Volc takes a dump on Scizor.
Aqua Jet - doesn’t really exist and users Sam-H / Azumarill / Crawdaunt / Barraskewda all lose to coverage and Tera options.
“This is what we’ve been doing the whole generation, except 1 and 2.”
Bruh
I agree that the restrictions aren’t great options. However, I am open to any and all action on Tera. I will take even a Tera Blast ban over nothing at all. I don’t buy that the only options shall be no action or outright ban as the only paths forward.
A Tera Blast ban is the only non-shitty Tera restriction. Tera Preview would lead to a lot of stomp matchups since you'd be telegraphing all your counterplay in the builder, which would reduce skill expression. I'm happy that the survey clarified action on Tera this time as implementing a restriction or a ban as I don't believe it did last time, so this is a positive step forward.
Sorry, but Iron Valiant is 100% fair and balanced. It will never be banned.
so does "eventual tiering action" mean "suspect in a week" or "take his ass behind the shed and put him down like old yeller"
Suspect seems most likely.
The issue is that things with Moon's power and speed tier are typically supposed to be balanced by low defenses. This isn't exactly the case, so I don't know why so many folks seem to think it is balanced.
Volcorona's base 100 speed tier is not fast enough in gen 9 for a +1 to be nearly as immediately threatening. It has some defensive utility, but it isn't exactly bulky without investment.
E-speed Dragonite is actually pretty good against Volc and can often use Volc as setup fodder itself. Sucker Punch also does a lot of damage except in the case of like Tera Fairy. You do play some Sucker Punch mind games, but Volc isn't exactly taking dark STAB from Gambit very easily.
Both Dragonite and Kingambit hate burn, but this is a roll, not a guarantee. Again, crippling one sweeper or revenge killer to avoid being swept seems reasonable. And the crippling is just a chance, far from a guarantee.
Aqua Jet primarily fell off due to the combination of Waterpon and all the Dragons in the tier. In prior iterations of the metagame, it was enough of a threat for Volc to often run Tera Grass. I could see Aqua Jet coming back if Waterpon gets banned.
Meanwhile, Roaring Moon's natural typing resists Grassy Glide, Aqua Jet, Sucker Punch, Thunderclap, and Shadow Sneak. Only Ice, Fighting, Normal priority are really reliable to hit Moon neutrally or super effectively. I guess Bullet Punch, but Scizor isn't exactly the best these days. Tera Flying counters Fighting and the very rare First Impression while providing strong offense. Other Tera options could cover other things. Steel used to be common for E-speed, Ice Shard, and Bullet Punch, for example, and could be used to hit fairies.
I do think both of these pokemon are problematic in a Tera metagame because they can use it to get an extra turn to setup and snowball. Priority that you might bring to check one or the other won't necesarrily be reliable. But if you are asking me which one is more resistant to being revenge killed after only 1 turn of setup, it's clearly Roaring Moon. It has better stats for bulk, a far superior speed tier, and a greater number of important natural priority resistances, unless you want to count like First Impression as important. You can also often use a Choice Scarf or Energy Boost speed mon to outspeed a +1 Volc. This doesn't happen much at Moon's speed tier. It's often priority for Moon or nothing, and it resists too much priority.
if it were a council vote (between ban and no ban), how one-sided do you think the vote would be?
I believe Volcarona is more broken than Moon for 3 main reasons:
1. QD boosting its special bulk and the option for bulky sets. The counterplay between the "offensive" and "bulky" sets varies somewhat. Defensive typing is very good.
2. Flame Body punishing... a lot.
3. Special walls tend to be a bit passive and exploitable by either Volc itself or a teammate. Non-Psyshock Glowking is almost setup fodder, for example.
3 again. Tera variety. With Moon, it's always Flying. With Volc, you need to consider Grass, Ground, Dragon, Fairy, Water, and other niche options like Poison and Steel.
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1. QD boosting its special bulk and the option for bulky sets. The counterplay between the "offensive" and "bulky" sets varies somewhat. Defensive typing is very good.
2. Flame Body punishing... a lot.
3. Special walls tend to be a bit passive and exploitable by either Volc itself or a teammate. Non-Psyshock Glowking is almost setup fodder, for example.
3 again. Tera variety. With Moon, it's always Flying. With Volc, you need to consider Grass, Ground, Dragon, Fairy, Water, and other niche options like Poison and Steel.
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If I see one more post with the Reply, Edit, Delete, Report, etc. hyperlinked into the post itself, then I am going to start abusing my power and thread banning people
My funny Volc check: Tera Water Conkeldurr.
Think about it for a moment, I won't explain.
Think about it for a moment, I won't explain.
Thank you. I had no idea how to do it anyway