For me when I try to not double post by replying to multiple people at a time, I just click reply for two people and it only shows the last one. I know I’m doing something wrong, but I don’t know what. Can someone help me?
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
You know how you can copy and paste someone's text by highlighting it with your mouse? you can do that for multiple posts, a little "reply!" balloon will appear, and let you quote that exact bit you highlighted. It'll let you reply to multiple posts in one go.
You mean 4. The common duration of a gen is 3 years
They did acknowledge the negative feedback of SV and did take it to consideration for future games
Hello everyone just dropping by to give my opinions on the recent survey, specifically gouging fire, but lets start with the others:
Roaring moon: i voted a 2, it has way too many checks rn mimikyu stardust posted a list of counterplay, and it needs lots of conditions met to sweep any team thats not BO, and even BO can beat it, if its taunt its walled by gambit, if its eq its walled by balloon gambit, if not taunt pdef scor beats it and so does ting lu, weav shard + pivot corv , dozo loses boots but still beats it, raging bolt recenges if it teras , any tera on tusk can revenge it, dnite espeed aswell, just overall okay mon.
Raging Bolt: i voted a 1, idk why its here, mid speed tier, is beneficial to the tier providing a good pivot and electric priority for utility on BO, balance, and HO with booster, great sun abuser, lots of versatility =/= broken, otherwise we would have banned lele or lando t last gen, or garg/ghold this gen if we're being realistic, overall great healthy pokemon shouldnt go anywhere anytime soon, its a joke that its on here, lando , clod, ting lu, gking with toxic, any tera ground ever, so much counterplay, it reminds me of rotom wash last gen, awesome pivot and can serve as offensive.
Wellspring: i voted 3, i think its powerful it would be very stupid to ignore its presence, but i dont think it has enough to warrant a ban, limited to 1 tera , u basically know its movepool, sd encore trailblaze play rough cudgel, its easy to scout and hella easy to revenge with thunderclap , sucker, any tera grass ever , dnite espeed, moon threatens, cant sd on moon, cind threatens, some of these cant switch in but wellspring doesnt come in often either in this meta, but i will speak on this more in depth if it does get suspected, as to why i would vote dnb.
Tera: is this a joke, not only would it cause a meta reset because defensive tera checks ALOT rn, but offensive tera makes up like 90% of the meta, its do we want a stale never progressing meta, or a forever evolving one with versatility and actual skill ceiling, this mechanic really exposed whos good and whos not, the people messing around in swsh in 2000s with surskit , can now stay in 1400s, forcing u to experience the sv meta is healthy overall because now u cant just come in after a 10 year break , grab a sample and win ur way to the top with minimal effort, no u work ur way like a skilled player, play and learn the meta, stay up to date, incredibly healthy mechanic, small vocal minority who only talk on the forums want this mechanic acted upon, cause there are tens of thousands of players on discord servers and youtube community who play showdown, aka the vast majority, they love the mechanic, and only a small select few want it gone on smogon, this is a discussion i dont plan on entertaining as i will remain pro no action, and from what was mentioned, the council is in no rush to act on tera rn, because its ridiculous.
Gholdengo: eh, hate that it limits defoggers but, thats all it does, hazards , wellspring is also mad weak to hazards in a hazard dominated meta, back to gholdenJOE, pretty mid rn, isnt explosive, only thing you do banning this is open up a few foggers that are still gonna lose to the setters like garg anyway lmao.
Kingambit: voted a 3, its really good obviously, its ability was designed to reverse sweep, but there are legitimate fighting types in ou alongside wispers, and encore users, zama, tusk, valiant, encore dnite, wisp volcarona, and u need a specific tera to check these , and its hard to guess that tera on both ends.
Volcarona: yeah okay LOL, this needs no explanation as to why i voted a 1, i would have voted 0 if i could, this mon needs so many conditions to sweep a good team its crazy, its actually so bad i usually swap it out for moth and moth always does more even without quiver.
Okay now that i have covered the rest of the survey, its time for me to touch on gouging fire, i voted a 5 on this thing, this pokemon is so ridiculously broken and can be compared to chi yu and terapagos.
Here are my reasons as to why i want gouging fire extinguished from this tier:
The band speed set in sun, with raging fury, not only do u get a speed boost, but u still hit like a free train with tera fire:
168 Atk Choice Band Tera Fire Gouging Fire Raging Fury vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Roaring Moon in Sun: 334-394 (95.1 - 112.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
-1 168 Atk Choice Band Tera Fire Gouging Fire Raging Fury vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Landorus-Therian in Sun: 266-314 (69.6 - 82.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
168 Atk Choice Band Tera Fire Gouging Fire Raging Fury vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Skeledirge in Sun: 199-235 (48.4 - 57.1%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO
168 Atk Choice Band Tera Fire Gouging Fire Raging Fury vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Protosynthesis Great Tusk in Sun: 238-282 (54.8 - 64.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
168 Atk Choice Band Tera Fire Gouging Fire Raging Fury vs. 244 HP / 248+ Def Gliscor in Sun: 312-368 (88.6 - 104.5%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
If these calcs arent proof enough, keep in mind that this is not even max attack jolly, its 168 attack without the proto boost, which is not okay.
Let me provide more calcs but this time lets use the breaking swipe set:
-1 252 Atk Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 104+ Def Gouging Fire: 186-222 (44.9 - 53.6%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Keep in mind tusk is doing this type of damage after a breaking swipe, so it will 1v1 tusk, also, this set 1v1s dondozo, with tera and pp stall, which is ridiculous, dondozo is so stupid vs all physical attackers, invalidates most, but cant stop gouging fire, thats a strong red flag, get this mon out.
252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Ivy Cudgel vs. 252 HP / 104+ Def Gouging Fire: 132-156 (31.8 - 37.6%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
This is supposed to be a mon people consider banworthy, 31? Really?, After a breaking swipe its doing 22, this is another reason to ban gouging fire.
But let me get to the last few calcs which i have a comparison so ridiculous that ill accept nothing but a fat quickban:
252 Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Tera Fire Gouging Fire Raging Fury vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo in Sun: 230-271 (45.6 - 53.7%) -- 42.2% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Tera Fire Gouging Fire Raging Fury vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo in Sun: 252-297 (50 - 58.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So lets make a comparison now, but before we do, its safe to say that dondozo is as bulky physically as blissey is bulky specially, the two are close in bulk on their respective strong stat.
so if those 2 dondozo calcs above were not resisted, dondozo would have dropped:
252 Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Tera Fire Gouging Fire Raging Fury vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Dark Dondozo in Sun: 460-542 (91.2 - 107.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Tera Fire Gouging Fire Raging Fury vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Dark Dondozo in Sun: 504-594 (100 - 117.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
So if this serves right, lets look at a familiar calc:
252 SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Tera Fire Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey in Sun: 510-600 (78.2 - 92%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Tera Fire Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey in Sun: 560-660 (85.8 - 101.2%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
Surprising me AS IM WRITING THIS, it actually does MORE to dondozo than chi yu does to blissey, and dozo was max hp max defense, blissey wasnt even max hp , just max spdef.
When a pokemon is being compared to chi yu like this and out shining chi yu in damage, while having sets and stats bulkier than or almost as bulky as the walls in the tier like garganacl, its time for it to go, like seriously, what a ridiculous pokemon, get it out immediately, needs a big fat quickban with cause, after gouging steps out, this meta will be balanced once again.
My conclusion: Yall lets just quickban this absolute MONSTER called GOUGING FIRE and we can go from there.
Roaring moon: i voted a 2, it has way too many checks rn mimikyu stardust posted a list of counterplay, and it needs lots of conditions met to sweep any team thats not BO, and even BO can beat it, if its taunt its walled by gambit, if its eq its walled by balloon gambit, if not taunt pdef scor beats it and so does ting lu, weav shard + pivot corv , dozo loses boots but still beats it, raging bolt recenges if it teras , any tera on tusk can revenge it, dnite espeed aswell, just overall okay mon.
Raging Bolt: i voted a 1, idk why its here, mid speed tier, is beneficial to the tier providing a good pivot and electric priority for utility on BO, balance, and HO with booster, great sun abuser, lots of versatility =/= broken, otherwise we would have banned lele or lando t last gen, or garg/ghold this gen if we're being realistic, overall great healthy pokemon shouldnt go anywhere anytime soon, its a joke that its on here, lando , clod, ting lu, gking with toxic, any tera ground ever, so much counterplay, it reminds me of rotom wash last gen, awesome pivot and can serve as offensive.
Wellspring: i voted 3, i think its powerful it would be very stupid to ignore its presence, but i dont think it has enough to warrant a ban, limited to 1 tera , u basically know its movepool, sd encore trailblaze play rough cudgel, its easy to scout and hella easy to revenge with thunderclap , sucker, any tera grass ever , dnite espeed, moon threatens, cant sd on moon, cind threatens, some of these cant switch in but wellspring doesnt come in often either in this meta, but i will speak on this more in depth if it does get suspected, as to why i would vote dnb.
Tera: is this a joke, not only would it cause a meta reset because defensive tera checks ALOT rn, but offensive tera makes up like 90% of the meta, its do we want a stale never progressing meta, or a forever evolving one with versatility and actual skill ceiling, this mechanic really exposed whos good and whos not, the people messing around in swsh in 2000s with surskit , can now stay in 1400s, forcing u to experience the sv meta is healthy overall because now u cant just come in after a 10 year break , grab a sample and win ur way to the top with minimal effort, no u work ur way like a skilled player, play and learn the meta, stay up to date, incredibly healthy mechanic, small vocal minority who only talk on the forums want this mechanic acted upon, cause there are tens of thousands of players on discord servers and youtube community who play showdown, aka the vast majority, they love the mechanic, and only a small select few want it gone on smogon, this is a discussion i dont plan on entertaining as i will remain pro no action, and from what was mentioned, the council is in no rush to act on tera rn, because its ridiculous.
Gholdengo: eh, hate that it limits defoggers but, thats all it does, hazards , wellspring is also mad weak to hazards in a hazard dominated meta, back to gholdenJOE, pretty mid rn, isnt explosive, only thing you do banning this is open up a few foggers that are still gonna lose to the setters like garg anyway lmao.
Kingambit: voted a 3, its really good obviously, its ability was designed to reverse sweep, but there are legitimate fighting types in ou alongside wispers, and encore users, zama, tusk, valiant, encore dnite, wisp volcarona, and u need a specific tera to check these , and its hard to guess that tera on both ends.
Volcarona: yeah okay LOL, this needs no explanation as to why i voted a 1, i would have voted 0 if i could, this mon needs so many conditions to sweep a good team its crazy, its actually so bad i usually swap it out for moth and moth always does more even without quiver.
Okay now that i have covered the rest of the survey, its time for me to touch on gouging fire, i voted a 5 on this thing, this pokemon is so ridiculously broken and can be compared to chi yu and terapagos.
Here are my reasons as to why i want gouging fire extinguished from this tier:
The band speed set in sun, with raging fury, not only do u get a speed boost, but u still hit like a free train with tera fire:
168 Atk Choice Band Tera Fire Gouging Fire Raging Fury vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Roaring Moon in Sun: 334-394 (95.1 - 112.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
-1 168 Atk Choice Band Tera Fire Gouging Fire Raging Fury vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Landorus-Therian in Sun: 266-314 (69.6 - 82.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
168 Atk Choice Band Tera Fire Gouging Fire Raging Fury vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Skeledirge in Sun: 199-235 (48.4 - 57.1%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO
168 Atk Choice Band Tera Fire Gouging Fire Raging Fury vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Protosynthesis Great Tusk in Sun: 238-282 (54.8 - 64.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
168 Atk Choice Band Tera Fire Gouging Fire Raging Fury vs. 244 HP / 248+ Def Gliscor in Sun: 312-368 (88.6 - 104.5%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
If these calcs arent proof enough, keep in mind that this is not even max attack jolly, its 168 attack without the proto boost, which is not okay.
Let me provide more calcs but this time lets use the breaking swipe set:
-1 252 Atk Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 104+ Def Gouging Fire: 186-222 (44.9 - 53.6%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Keep in mind tusk is doing this type of damage after a breaking swipe, so it will 1v1 tusk, also, this set 1v1s dondozo, with tera and pp stall, which is ridiculous, dondozo is so stupid vs all physical attackers, invalidates most, but cant stop gouging fire, thats a strong red flag, get this mon out.
252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Ivy Cudgel vs. 252 HP / 104+ Def Gouging Fire: 132-156 (31.8 - 37.6%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
This is supposed to be a mon people consider banworthy, 31? Really?, After a breaking swipe its doing 22, this is another reason to ban gouging fire.
But let me get to the last few calcs which i have a comparison so ridiculous that ill accept nothing but a fat quickban:
252 Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Tera Fire Gouging Fire Raging Fury vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo in Sun: 230-271 (45.6 - 53.7%) -- 42.2% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Tera Fire Gouging Fire Raging Fury vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo in Sun: 252-297 (50 - 58.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So lets make a comparison now, but before we do, its safe to say that dondozo is as bulky physically as blissey is bulky specially, the two are close in bulk on their respective strong stat.
so if those 2 dondozo calcs above were not resisted, dondozo would have dropped:
252 Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Tera Fire Gouging Fire Raging Fury vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Dark Dondozo in Sun: 460-542 (91.2 - 107.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Tera Fire Gouging Fire Raging Fury vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Dark Dondozo in Sun: 504-594 (100 - 117.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
So if this serves right, lets look at a familiar calc:
252 SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Tera Fire Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey in Sun: 510-600 (78.2 - 92%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Tera Fire Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey in Sun: 560-660 (85.8 - 101.2%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
Surprising me AS IM WRITING THIS, it actually does MORE to dondozo than chi yu does to blissey, and dozo was max hp max defense, blissey wasnt even max hp , just max spdef.
When a pokemon is being compared to chi yu like this and out shining chi yu in damage, while having sets and stats bulkier than or almost as bulky as the walls in the tier like garganacl, its time for it to go, like seriously, what a ridiculous pokemon, get it out immediately, needs a big fat quickban with cause, after gouging steps out, this meta will be balanced once again.
My conclusion: Yall lets just quickban this absolute MONSTER called GOUGING FIRE and we can go from there.
The survey results on Tera are so beyond disappointing I’m not sure what to even say.
I guess it’s just clear that the player base cares more about keeping a core gimmick than actual metagame balance…
…and I guess that’s okay. Whatever everybody enjoys is best, at the end of the day.
But just don’t lie and say it’s balanced or competitive.
I guess it’s just clear that the player base cares more about keeping a core gimmick than actual metagame balance…
…and I guess that’s okay. Whatever everybody enjoys is best, at the end of the day.
But just don’t lie and say it’s balanced or competitive.
(with tera)
(if it doesnt run its best 4th)
(walls a mon that isn't hard to switch into, only good because the move puts up spikes)
(with tera)
(with tera)
(RU mon or is it NU this month)
(specific coverage + not OU by usage)
truly, the heat squad has figured it out. Immunity + Terastilize and wall one Pokemon which is there to put up Spikes (which this does not stop), and then you get to do a worse version of its job!
It's easy to make bad stall teams but creating something that works consistently requires a lot of time and testing, because it isn't just those Pokémon it's their movesets and teras too, stall is by far the hardest to build because good stall teams have to have an answer for almost anything in the tier
Thank you Stormzone. Glad to see a good player not wanting to ban everything.
Gambit and Dengo are the face of the tier, I think they are the necessary evil mons. They are not uncompetitive or unhealthy imo. Voted 2
Raging Bolt, well that thing is scary but at least manageable. Like Roaring Moon and Ogerpon, they dont deserve a ban. I mean, if yes, you could ban half of the tier... I voted 2.
Volcarona is Volcarona, the matchup broken mon. It can 6-0 or do nothing during a game, but I agree it may be unhealthy this gen, especially with tera. I voted 3. On the radar but not banworthy right now.
Gouging... now we speak. Banworthy especially in sun. We banned Archa, Gouging needs also to go.
I ask for a suspect, rather than a quickban so I voted 4.
Tera is fine. At first I hate it, but I ended up being accustomed to it, Stormzone well summed up the arguments in favor of it.
Nevertheless, I still don't know if tera preview would be a good idea to limit the surprise factor and its supposed uncompetitiveness, or if we should keep it as it is.
I can't agree with the argument about tera going limiting meta progression, because if it were to go the meta would be more stable and progress differently. I actually think tera limits variety personally since it's always the same tera abusers. I think tera mostly limits innovation personally, and the gen 8 meta while not the fastest paced meta, every team style is viable and is still evolving quite a bit. I do understand your perspective though, but I actually think tera being banned might breathe new life into the meta since more pokemon would be viable in OU if defensive and offensive tera didn't limit what you could run. As someone who really enjoyed gen 8 and enjoys gen 3 OU I enjoy being able to construct fun off meta teams with suboptimal mons sometimes and finding success. You just cannot really do that to the same degree in SV, and I think tera is gonna be what makes the meta stale since tera just limits what you can run honestly, and it's a shame you really cannot run off meta teams without really putting yourself in a huge disadvantage. However, I think now is not the time to test tera, I think that is better saved for when Gambit, Volc, and Bolt are all problematic tera abusers
Your response is well constructed storm zone, but I respectfully disagree with your response on tera. I do agree that defensive tera checks a lot, but I don't find it healthy
Today I wanna highlight a cool set I’ve been running on Ursaluna that actually has been putting some legit work.
(friend shaped)
Ursaluna @ Leftovers
Ability: Guts
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 100 Atk / 44 Def / 112 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Body Slam
- Earthquake
- Rest/Protect
- Sleep Talk/Roar
Credits go to coral fan for the idea. They posted a team using bulky Luna on the Baazar if you wanna check it out.
Ursaluna often presumes the role of an explosive wallbreaker, but this set turns Luna into a defensive tank. Its 130/105/80 bulk is fantastic even in SV OU’s metagame and has the 2nd highest Atk stat of any OU Ground type.
Before I go over what this set does, I wanna talk a bit about the spread. With an Adamant nature and 100 EVs into Atk, Luna OHKOs
after a layer of spikes. 44 Def lets Luna take physical hits better, and lives +1
Tera Flying Acro after a layer if spikes.
The rest is dumped into special bulk and HP.
While Ursaluna doesn’t have the sheer utility of any of the other bulky grounds, Luna has a couple of roles I found it to be good at.
-Luna is a status absorber. It hard punishes Hex
with Guts while being able to switch into Darts repeatedly. It also punishes
and
for clicking Toxic, with Resttalk healing off the damage from poison.
-Luna can spread its own status with STAB Body Slam that hits hard and punishes checks like
with paralysis. Pairs nicely with Hex
or
which also punish
.
-As mentioned earlier, Luna hits much harder than other bulky grounds like
and
while having better mixed bulk than
. This thing is Melmetal reincarnated as a bear. It serves as a check to
With its bulk + offenses + some help from Tera. It can outright trade damage with almost anything in 1v1 scenarios.
Without Tera
With Tera Fairy
This ain’t an OU calibur mon or anything, but it does put in work vs offense and defense.
Ursaluna @ Leftovers
Ability: Guts
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 100 Atk / 44 Def / 112 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Body Slam
- Earthquake
- Rest/Protect
- Sleep Talk/Roar
Credits go to coral fan for the idea. They posted a team using bulky Luna on the Baazar if you wanna check it out.
Ursaluna often presumes the role of an explosive wallbreaker, but this set turns Luna into a defensive tank. Its 130/105/80 bulk is fantastic even in SV OU’s metagame and has the 2nd highest Atk stat of any OU Ground type.
Before I go over what this set does, I wanna talk a bit about the spread. With an Adamant nature and 100 EVs into Atk, Luna OHKOs
The rest is dumped into special bulk and HP.
While Ursaluna doesn’t have the sheer utility of any of the other bulky grounds, Luna has a couple of roles I found it to be good at.
-Luna is a status absorber. It hard punishes Hex
-Luna can spread its own status with STAB Body Slam that hits hard and punishes checks like
-As mentioned earlier, Luna hits much harder than other bulky grounds like
With its bulk + offenses + some help from Tera. It can outright trade damage with almost anything in 1v1 scenarios.
Without Tera
With Tera Fairy
100+ Atk Guts Ursaluna Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 324-382 (102.2 - 120.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
100+ Atk Ursaluna Earthquake vs. 64 HP / 28 Def Raging Bolt: 360-426 (88.4 - 104.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
100+ Atk Ursaluna Earthquake vs. 212 HP / 0 Def Kingambit: 294-348 (74.6 - 88.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
100+ Atk Ursaluna Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 104 Def Volcarona: 211-249 (56.4 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
100+ Atk Ursaluna Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 204+ Def Hatterene: 133-157 (41.8 - 49.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
100+ Atk Ursaluna Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Weavile: 243-286 (86.4 - 101.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
100+ Atk Ursaluna Earthquake vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Valiant: 280-330 (96.8 - 114.1%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO (after Valiant clicks CC)
100+ Atk Ursaluna Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 52 Def Garganacl: 260-308 (64.3 - 76.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
100+ Atk Ursaluna Body Slam vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ogerpon-Wellspring: 169-199 (56.1 - 66.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
100+ Atk Ursaluna Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 356-422 (113 - 133.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
100+ Atk Ursaluna Earthquake vs. 64 HP / 28 Def Raging Bolt: 360-426 (88.4 - 104.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
100+ Atk Ursaluna Earthquake vs. 212 HP / 0 Def Kingambit: 294-348 (74.6 - 88.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
100+ Atk Ursaluna Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 104 Def Volcarona: 211-249 (56.4 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
100+ Atk Ursaluna Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 204+ Def Hatterene: 133-157 (41.8 - 49.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
100+ Atk Ursaluna Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Weavile: 243-286 (86.4 - 101.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
100+ Atk Ursaluna Earthquake vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Valiant: 280-330 (96.8 - 114.1%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO (after Valiant clicks CC)
100+ Atk Ursaluna Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 52 Def Garganacl: 260-308 (64.3 - 76.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
100+ Atk Ursaluna Body Slam vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ogerpon-Wellspring: 169-199 (56.1 - 66.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
100+ Atk Ursaluna Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 356-422 (113 - 133.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
76 Atk Dragapult Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 44 Def Ursaluna: 126-150 (27.1 - 32.3%) -- approx. 46.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Ursaluna: 327-385 (70.4 - 82.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Protosynthesis Tera Flying Roaring Moon Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 44 Def Ursaluna: 339-399 (73 - 85.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and Leftovers recovery
+1 0 SpA Volcarona Fiery Dance vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Ursaluna: 177-208 (38.1 - 44.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 0 SpA Volcarona Fiery Dance vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Ursaluna: 235-277 (50.6 - 59.6%) -- 84% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Protosynthesis Gouging Fire Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 44 Def Ursaluna: 352-415 (75.8 - 89.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 72 Atk Gouging Fire Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 44 Def Ursaluna: 214-253 (46.1 - 54.5%) -- 7.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 3 allies fainted Kingambit Kowtow Cleave vs. 252 HP / 44 Def Ursaluna: 375-442 (80.8 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 132 SpA Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Ursaluna: 201-237 (43.3 - 51%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Iron Valiant Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 44 Def Ursaluna: 360-426 (77.5 - 91.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Weavile Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 44 Def Ursaluna: 346-414 (74.5 - 89.2%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 0 SpA Hatterene Draining Kiss vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Ursaluna: 111-132 (23.9 - 28.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 0 SpA Hatterene Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 44 Def Ursaluna: 154-183 (33.1 - 39.4%) -- 13.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Tera Normal Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 44 Def Ursaluna: 202-238 (43.5 - 51.2%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Tera Normal Dragonite Ice Spinner vs. 252 HP / 44 Def Ursaluna: 270-318 (58.1 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Ursaluna: 327-385 (70.4 - 82.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Protosynthesis Tera Flying Roaring Moon Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 44 Def Ursaluna: 339-399 (73 - 85.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and Leftovers recovery
+1 0 SpA Volcarona Fiery Dance vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Ursaluna: 177-208 (38.1 - 44.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 0 SpA Volcarona Fiery Dance vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Ursaluna: 235-277 (50.6 - 59.6%) -- 84% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Protosynthesis Gouging Fire Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 44 Def Ursaluna: 352-415 (75.8 - 89.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 72 Atk Gouging Fire Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 44 Def Ursaluna: 214-253 (46.1 - 54.5%) -- 7.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 3 allies fainted Kingambit Kowtow Cleave vs. 252 HP / 44 Def Ursaluna: 375-442 (80.8 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 132 SpA Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Ursaluna: 201-237 (43.3 - 51%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Iron Valiant Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 44 Def Ursaluna: 360-426 (77.5 - 91.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Weavile Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 44 Def Ursaluna: 346-414 (74.5 - 89.2%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 0 SpA Hatterene Draining Kiss vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Ursaluna: 111-132 (23.9 - 28.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 0 SpA Hatterene Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 44 Def Ursaluna: 154-183 (33.1 - 39.4%) -- 13.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Tera Normal Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 44 Def Ursaluna: 202-238 (43.5 - 51.2%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Tera Normal Dragonite Ice Spinner vs. 252 HP / 44 Def Ursaluna: 270-318 (58.1 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Weavile Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 44 Def Tera Fairy Ursaluna: 173-207 (37.2 - 44.6%) -- approx. 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Ivy Cudgel vs. 252 HP / 44 Def Tera Fairy Ursaluna: 169-201 (36.4 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Ivy Cudgel vs. 252 HP / 44 Def Tera Fairy Ursaluna: 339-400 (73 - 86.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Primarina Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Tera Fairy Ursaluna: 177-208 (38.1 - 44.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Tera Fairy Ursaluna in Sun: 301-355 (64.8 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 44 Def Tera Fairy Ursaluna: 181-214 (39 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Ivy Cudgel vs. 252 HP / 44 Def Tera Fairy Ursaluna: 169-201 (36.4 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Ivy Cudgel vs. 252 HP / 44 Def Tera Fairy Ursaluna: 339-400 (73 - 86.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Primarina Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Tera Fairy Ursaluna: 177-208 (38.1 - 44.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Tera Fairy Ursaluna in Sun: 301-355 (64.8 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 44 Def Tera Fairy Ursaluna: 181-214 (39 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
This ain’t an OU calibur mon or anything, but it does put in work vs offense and defense.
I see that in the honorable mentions someone mentioned solgaleo.
do you people think that this pokemon would be balanced in OU?
its ability is just clear body with a fancier name.
the stats look good, but not broken.
I don't see how its movepool could break the game.
(for better or worse it does not have a reliable recovery).
it does not look much worse than zamazenta.
it may even end up in UUBL.
do you people think that this pokemon would be balanced in OU?
its ability is just clear body with a fancier name.
the stats look good, but not broken.
I don't see how its movepool could break the game.
(for better or worse it does not have a reliable recovery).
it does not look much worse than zamazenta.
it may even end up in UUBL.
As somebody who spent three pages argueing against someone who thought it would be alright in OU, trust me, they believe that to the ends of the earth.
not only would it not add anything of note to the current meta but i also genuinely don't think solgaleo has a single counter in OU besides dondozo. so dropping it would be a complete waste of time, especially now that a new suspect test is imminent
It does have morning sun, so that shit would stay around for a long time. It also has a decently wide movepool to abuse, with only its stabs, flare blitz and e-quake hitting the entire metagame for neutral damage. Could even drop e-quake to run morning sun if you are alright with hamurott resisting your moves.
Solgaleo gets Teleport and Morning Sun. So it could run as a strong defensive pivot on top of everything else. It also get Trick Room, which could be interesting. I do think it would be too much, but it is kind of interesting to consider what it could do for putting a defensive backbone or some niche sets on the team.
This is pretty much why I feel like it could useful. Imagine magearna without the ability to spiral out of control and a far more exploitable typing but gains a better pivoting move + reliable recovery. Offensive sets are also not super stand out raw damage wise but I'm sure access to knock may be what keeps it locked away. Still, if we ever get to a point where the meta is OK enough to test drops, this would be my #1.
If you want Solgaleo at home, just use Iron Crown, which is pretty solid in its own right without as much potential BS. Can even do the Future Sight + Volt Switch combo, as well as run similarly potent CM sets without recovery or a billion coverage moves. Gking also provides similarish utility.
Morning Sun + Teleport Solgaleo is totally healthy in OU and by itself would be good for the meta... the problem is the offensive Solgaleo sets aren,t healthy at all, this lion has way too high offensive movepool and can kill in miriad ways, even with Special sets (gets CM + Stored Power + Morning Sun or Specs + Steel Beam or Agility + Meteor Beam). Under screens, its also one of the best Weakness Policy users to ever exist.
Nope, Solgaleo doesn,t belong to OU. Out of current Ubers, only Zamazenta Crowned and Giratina-A have a (very minor) case for being OU, but currently the moment hasn,t arrived for them to be tested.
Nope, Solgaleo doesn,t belong to OU. Out of current Ubers, only Zamazenta Crowned and Giratina-A have a (very minor) case for being OU, but currently the moment hasn,t arrived for them to be tested.
I think your characterization of Raging Bolt is off; it virtually only appears as a booster CM mon, or occasionally as lefties. It doesn't really function as a pivot or glue mon at all, even though you can technically use it that way, for the most part you're probably not going to.
It doesn't have stored power which is pretty big but it can certainly leverage its bulk for some interesting sets.
Are you saying stall is harder to build than offense? With stall you need to answer things defensively with specific mons and their attributes. With offense you need to answer mons with mostly positioning as well which is arguably more difficult to take into account.
sorry i was late with this one, i had a busy day yesterday
Eh. I have tested both an Assault Vest slow pivot set with Volt Switch and a Grassy Seed Body Press set. Both seem to work fine. There is certainly room for Bolt to function as a pivot or a glue mon.
I don't agree with many of Storm Zone's takes lately, and a 1 seems a bit low even to me, but I do at least agree with them that Raging Bolt isn't a problem and can be a glue mon. Even the main set fits on a lot of different teams with only minor tweaks like Tera type or Weather Ball being included or not.
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