Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4

East Coast Elite said:
Finchinator I really have to say, I have 0 belief the meta won’t stop rapidly adapting with all the threats left here. Sure Gouging Fire shouldn’t have been banned, but there’s such intense threat saturation that a team that does well one week is bad a few days later.

Quite often I’ll find that a 1800s 10 days ago struggles in mid ladder now. Besides an Archaludon situation, I have trouble seeing anything else getting banned especially because top players love Raging Bolt and Waterpon. This gen has been defined by offense/HO with so many tools, it’s super difficult to keep up with in the builder and with no bans on the horizon (or suspects likely to pass for that matter) I don’t see any evidence of it slowing down.
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I think this problem happens if u try to build teams a little too cheesy I haven't tried making any balance or stall teams but for ho or bo, I am no giga brain with team building but this is what I do know:
1.Ghost aka dragapult and ghold atk check slowing g check usually just kingambit lol
2.Setup breaker taunt or encore (there's only few good 1s figure it out urself)
3.Id zamazenta check be it tera ghost or actual counter ghost type or encore or ep landot
4.Need hazard gone? Great tusk boots version most consistent for spinning away cheese like webs or treads. Got owned by roaring moon? Tera steel on tusk
5. Offensive synergy between ur members they shld wear the same things down usually they are always physical so pack smth special to force out skarm and corv,
6. Make sure ur team not too slow
All I can think off str8 off my head there's prob more but I have been doing fine. Won't deny there's smth wrong with this meta though
 
in your guys opinion, whats the most overused mon(and by extension duo/core) right now? i personally think it's glowking and then kyurem by extension i feel like rarely see a non-HO team run kyurem with no glowking(and then they usually slap on a skarm or corv as their physical wall)
 
littensalt said:
in your guys opinion, whats the most overused mon(and by extension duo/core) right now? i personally think it's glowking and then kyurem by extension i feel like rarely see a non-HO team run kyurem with no glowking(and then they usually slap on a skarm or corv as their physical wall)
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While I do see that core a lot (except when I prepare specifically for it, then it's non-existent), dragapult + volcarona is one I have seen a lot of, both Pokemon separately and together. So much so, I've been running rock slide on tusk more often to destroy volc + flying types.
 
I hope April fools is a few of d tier ubers being allowed for a day, it would be funny to see something like Reshiram, Zama-C and Lugia in OU all at once causing chaos during the April fools metagame for OU. I remember something similar happening in SS which was fun and had a fun turn of events with a Zama-C suspect following because it was less broken than people thought. (Wouldn't mind if Zama-C was suspected again in SS OU, Mon wasn't even that broken in gen 8 and honestly disagree with the fact people found it broken even if it encouraged wish and future sight strats, and is way weaker than it's gen 9 counterpart for context.)

Point being, am April Fools event like that would be super fun.
 
BolTingBlazie said:
I hope April fools is a few of d tier ubers being allowed for a day, it would be funny to see something like Reshiram, Zama-C and Lugia in OU all at once causing chaos during the April fools metagame for OU. I remember something similar happening in SS which was fun and had a fun turn of events with a Zama-C suspect following because it was less broken than people thought. (Wouldn't mind if Zama-C was suspected again in SS OU, Mon wasn't even that broken in gen 8 and honestly disagree with the fact people found it broken even if it encouraged wish and future sight strats, and is way weaker than it's gen 9 counterpart for context.)

Point being, am April Fools event like that would be super fun.
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No, what we do is unban all the mons we banned from OU for the day to show the casual scrubs what the metagame would look like if we didn't ban things.
Or conversely, we ban every mon except ghold and gambit to fulfill what they think the metagame will eventually look like.
Tldr, these are both the same thing which is just to screw with the casual playerbase, which I think would be very funny.
 
BolTingBlazie said:
(Wouldn't mind if Zama-C was suspected again in SS OU, Mon wasn't even that broken in gen 8 and honestly disagree with the fact people found it broken even if it encouraged wish and future sight strats, and is way weaker than it's gen 9 counterpart for context.)
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First can people stop with unbanning bad ubers? Seriously? It has nothing to do with metagame as is, and we've got better things to be focusing on. Even as a joke. Also no, ZamaC was a very annoying pokemon when it was tested and encouraged heavy rocky helm and fat spam because it destroyed offense way too hard. It's "weaker" as it lacks body press but has a greater instant power with unnerfed dauntless shield and attack. Let's just not.
 
Moyashi said:
First can people stop with unbanning bad ubers? Seriously? It has nothing to do with metagame as is, and we've got better things to be focusing on. Even as a joke. Also no, ZamaC was a very annoying pokemon when it was tested and encouraged heavy rocky helm and fat spam because it destroyed offense way too hard. It's "weaker" as it lacks body press but has a greater instant power with unnerfed dauntless shield and attack. Let's just not.
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I’m pretty sure Zamazenta-C can learn all the moves Zamazenta can, with Iron Head just being replaced with Behemoth Bash.
 
DaddyBuzzwole said:
they're all overused
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Barraskweda in the corner be like:
1710903831495.png
 
weirdo faye said:
But tusk is also on many teams same with landot how many counters u need
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Many, we need many. Especially offensive teams, which can run tusk and valiant, but zama is better against gambit even if it tera's since it can id up alongside the sd boosts. So yeah, it's probably the best gambit counter in the game rn. Tera'ing gambit otherwise is extremely difficult for offensive teams to beat, with tusk taking massive damage from it.
+2 252+ Atk Black Glasses Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Tera Dark Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Great Tusk: 244-288 (65.7 - 77.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Conversly, with zamazenta:
+2 252+ Atk Black Glasses Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Tera Dark Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. +1 252 HP / 88 Def Zamazenta: 170-200 (43.8 - 51.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
So yeah, I do think zama is needed.
 
I got the joke.... and valiant 4x resist sucker its super common on teams too its not even worth preserving gambit to last if ur opp has valiant and/or tusk in 1 team better to just use it to wallbreak. I've been spamming gambit since I started playing gen9 ou maybe it's just me being bad but I didn't think it was that amazing if enemy has multiple checks to it that u need to get rid of for gambit to sweep. & no1 runs adamant on tera dark gambit on offensive teams ...
 
weirdo faye said:
I got the joke.... and valiant 4x resist sucker its super common on teams too its not even worth preserving gambit to last if ur opp has valiant and/or tusk in 1 team better to just use it to wallbreak. I've been spamming gambit since I started playing gen9 ou maybe it's just me being bad but I didn't think it was that amazing if enemy has multiple checks to it that u need to get rid of for gambit to sweep. & no1 runs adamant on tera dark gambit on offensive teams ...
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I mean, that shows how broken gambit is if you have to run multiple checks to it. Also, while valiant 4x resists sucker punch, it also is weak to iron head, so if the gambit user can not use their tera until then, then they can tera out of their type and take the hit then precede to ko your valiant and sweep the rest of your team.
+2 252+ Atk Black Glasses Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Tera Dark Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Valiant: 169-199 (58.4 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Quad resisting it, while great, doesn't mean it is scot free either, if it dips below 50%, then thats gg. I think if they have multiple checks to gambit, then sure, it is more difficult, but by getting hazards up and chipping everything to 50% or below, and you have set up a gambit sweep.
Zama is unique in the fact that not only can it boost alongside gambit, but it also is good against it even if it tera's out of its weaknesses, it can hit both flying and fairy types for great damage with bp.
 
Heatranator said:
I mean, that shows how broken gambit is if you have to run multiple checks to it. Also, while valiant 4x resists sucker punch, it also is weak to iron head, so if the gambit user can not use their tera until then, then they can tera out of their type and take the hit then precede to ko your valiant and sweep the rest of your team.
+2 252+ Atk Black Glasses Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Tera Dark Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Valiant: 169-199 (58.4 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Quad resisting it, while great, doesn't mean it is scot free either, if it dips below 50%, then thats gg. I think if they have multiple checks to gambit, then sure, it is more difficult, but by getting hazards up and chipping everything to 50% or below, and you have set up a gambit sweep.
Zama is unique in the fact that not only can it boost alongside gambit, but it also is good against it even if it tera's out of its weaknesses, it can hit both flying and fairy types for great damage with bp.
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I mean you also have counters like Zamazenta, or Bulk Up Great Tusk which hard counter any and all Gambit sets. You also straight up cannot sweep if they keep an Ogerpon in the back and you're 5 fainted, or any Encore mon in general (which includes Val).
 
Ull never have the chance to get more than 1 spike or Sr vs another very offensive team both is already a blessing unless it's a deo s team but no1 uses that now. The games go by so fast with that kind of playstyle usually the Mon is 100% or it's fainted. U just told me I can tera out of body press like a tera fairy to dodge fighting asks from valiant and zama so why are u showing me the calcs for tera dark :bloblul: BTW I've been in the situation of tera fairy gambit as zamazenta u don't actually beat it unless u have multipleid boost BP does 50 to 60 at +5def iirc. And like i told u most offensive teams wont run adamant on gambit if its tera dark not outspeeding corv or skarm is illegal so that calc is invalid.So no actually I think zamazenta is just cancerous u don't need it around to check gambit tusk and valiant and lando t with enuf offensive pressure does fine
 
With the state of the tier, I'm almost thinking we just do a Booster Energy suspect and maybe Volc. I don't necesarrily think Booster Energy breaks many if any mons or vice versa. So then you ask, "Why not just ban the few if any mons that Booster Energy contributes to breaking?"

Well first of all, we can't. We can't seem to agree on banning anything. So just take a bit off the top from some of these borderline cases and then ban anything if it is still a problem. And even if we still cannot agree, this would nerf most of the current borderline threats besides Waterpon and Volc.

But there is probably a general discussion to be had about the general effects on the tier. The speed tiers are crazy and immediate power levels are way higher on certain set up pokemon than they normally would be. Before, you would need to have extra turns of setup or run a choice item to get that immediate speed or power buff. A locked in Mon is much easier to play around than something that gets essentially the same boost with all its moves free to click, even if that is only once per game or in Sun. This would make revenge killing certain +1 speed pokemon harder, but many of those pokemon could currently be booster speed anyways.

About Waterpon and Volc. I am on record saying I don't particularly care if either are banned. But I do believe that Waterpon is entirely more predictable in what it does with its Tera being locked and the lack of an item. Whether you personally think it is a pressing issue or not, the truth is the player base seems unlikely to come to a consensus on this.

With Volcarona, there is an argument that is isn't really healthy in a Tera metagame. There is way more uncertainty when it comes to Tera type. It's also one of the few mons that Tera blast seems possibly problematic on as well. They call it Matchup Moth for a reason. In a tier where folks complain about matchup fishing, this might be the target. And unlike Zama, which is seen as a very necessary mon for the tier by many, Volc stands out to me as something that is maybe more expendable and probably harder to play around. You simply don't know the matchup until it Teras.

I want to be clear that this doesn't reflect my own personal views on what I believe is most broken. It's not at all what I would have done before the Gouging Fire suspect. But thinking about the tier and what most people seem to want to keep in it, this is the direction that currently stands out to me after some days of reflection on the situation. I'm trying to be as neutral as possible here. Trim the edge off the paradox mons and take away one of the biggest matchup fishers seems like a logical direction at the moment.
 
FayaWizard said:
I mean you also have counters like Zamazenta, or Bulk Up Great Tusk which hard counter any and all Gambit sets. You also straight up cannot sweep if they keep an Ogerpon in the back and you're 5 fainted, or any Encore mon in general (which includes Val).
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Bulk up tusk definitely is good against gambit, though it doesn't boost as much as gambit much, which is why I listed Zama as a unique counter. Encore mons definitely do screw it over a lot, but struggle does a lot funnily enough.
+2 252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Kingambit Struggle vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Iron Valiant: 202-238 (69.6 - 82%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
Probably not going to happen, but it is funny.

Also, not a response to you, but to another post, but adamant gambit is absolutely something you need to account for, there is a reason why it is one of the two gambit sets used. You may be outsped by corv/skarm, but in return you have so much power and bulk.
 
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