Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4

[Magcargo]

What is your Top 5?

Who's the most overrated mon in OU?
This mon feels too fishy. Covert Cloak Bulky Tera Fairy is still solid, as are other sets running Tera Blast or NP + 3 Attacks. Its still pretty solid against your standard balance teams or stall teams with tactics like Trick Scarf. However, in other match-ups, this mon feels like its mostly deadweight. Its not uncommon to run into teams consisting of 5-6 mons Dengo has a negative trending MU against. Of course, Dengo certainly has the tech to somewhat bypass these MUs, but another issue is that Dengo rarely feels like the best mon for the job. Mons like GKing, Dragapult, and Kingambit feel like they offer more in a general context, while mons like Corv still possess invaluable long-term utility over Dengo with an innate Spikes immunity, U-turn, Pressure, and the ability to check Kingambit. I will say that with Zama's rise as of late, it being one of the more reliable checks to it is nice to have on offenseive structs, esp if paired with Lando-T.

This mon is ok, but depending on who I ask, they say it either invalidates balance or is very mid lol. I mostly play balance and bulky offense and while Kyurem can be annoying, I'd rather face 100 Kyurem's than a single Wellspring or Manaphy lmao. Other mons like Garganacl arguably feel more restricting against balance.

Who’s the most underrated mon in OU?
People like to hate on this mon a lot this gen in discussions, but I'm ngl, I've found it to be more useful this gen than last gen. ID + BP serves as a stop gap to some of the more threatening physical attackers like Gambit and Zama, Pressure is still a grade A ability against fat structures, this mon has top tier synergy with other mons like Kyurem, Gking, Dragapult, Garg, etc., does pretty well against the key Spikers like Gliscor, is one of the few mons that can reliably absorb Knock Off, and all around provides great utility with its Rocky Helmet chip. Been spamming this mon on most of my teams and its mostly gotten the job done.

These mons aren't exactly what I'd call "good" but they plug up a ton of holes when teambuilding, which I appreciate

Who do you think will rise/drop?
Rise:
Drop:
What’s your favorite anti-stall core/set/mon?
+ Trick+ +
Against the players I face on the ladder at least, this core has done a good job of winning the long game.

 

[viivian]

What is your top 5?

> > > ≥

Most overrated mon in OU ?
or or because yes its in my top 5 but people act like its uber level lol

but is certainly up there as well

Most underrated mon in OU ?
or (rain in general)

and methinks

What's your favorite anti stall ?
Psyshock + NP or SD if you really have a vengeance against stall.

choice specs my dearly beloved

will not elaborate on any of these :3

 

[YubelVT]

(this is based on the entire gen not just DLC 2)
What is your Top 5?


Most overrated mon in OU?


Most underrated mon in OU?
tera fairying on a dragapult that just whiffed a shadow ball was good memories. Also all relevant great tusk sets died to +0 grass knot after one layer of spikes

What's your favorite anti stall?

 

[Ctann]

Roaring moon is balanced because we have balloon steels, landorus, long necks and metal birds has “baxcalibur is balanced because we have air balloon steels” kinda energy.

just because moon is forcing these excellent checks to take 40% plus, then faints, only for its physical partner to then seal the deal, it don’t make it not broken.

but this whole meta is weird, with the few threats excessively better than everything else. There really are some S tier progress makers / utility threats much better than the next best things.

somehow it works together harmoniously. And there’s a stalemate of what should go to Ubers and what shouldn’t .. since they kinda cancel each other out if you have at least 3 of these S tiers on your team, you’ll do fine.

for those of us who don’t like stacking 2-3 or more of the S tiers Du jour on every team.. it’s a little more annoying

by S tiers I don’t mean the traditional viability rankings, I mean Pokémon’s that are specifically excellent at their purpose

OU is Ubers light, there’s a small pool of extremely high viability Pokémon’s you kinda need to have a few of in your team. Otherwise you don’t do well.

why is this Ubers lite?

think running an Ubers team without some kinda combo of the top tier threats..

how did this become Ubers lite?

Game freak unleashed incredible power creep very quickly, threw in the Tera mechanic, and there’s no consensus or aligned direction about where to strike next in a way that actually makes ban progress, since people get up in arms about the new Ubers candidate du jour. the lack of ban progress combined with this weird meta dynamic means we have to start looking at OU differently now..

 

[Heatranator]

Roaring moon is balanced because we have balloon steels, landorus, long necks and metal birds has “baxcalibur is balanced because we have air balloon steels” kinda energy.

just because moon is forcing these excellent checks to take 40% plus, then faints, only for its physical partner to then seal the deal, it don’t make it not broken.

but this whole meta is weird, with the few threats excessively better than everything else. There really are some S tier progress makers / utility threats much better than the next best things.

somehow it works together harmoniously. And there’s a stalemate of what should go to Ubers and what shouldn’t .. since they kinda cancel each other out if you have at least 3 of these S tiers on your team, you’ll do fine.

for those of us who don’t like stacking 2-3 or more of the S tiers Du jour on every team.. it’s a little more annoying

Whenever somebody says "but balloon gambit checks it" I always cringe (I know your not saying that, just a good starting point for discussion). My guy, moon has other moves. It can always click knock off and then destroy them afterwards. Stuff like corv and skarm can't even ko it if they decide to bp, and they always are going to be going out of the exchange losing their items.
I feel like people also are not very creative with moon sets. Some people have said "but maybe when the rarer sets get optimized" and I think that's just wrong. If it can run a set viably, that should be accounted for. I've used grassy seed, roost tera fairy moon. I even suggested a bulkier moon set that could live many hits it shouldn't.
Another thing is that once moon switches out, it's not dead weight, its still very much threatening. Knock always gives it utility, so it always has something to contribute. You don't need to keep moon in the first time it comes out, its alright if you have to switch it out. Every time people have showed me a replay and said "but moon didn't do much, it didn't sweep", I look through those replays and while they may not have swept, they still contributed a lot in the match. And that's in their weakened state. It's kinda like gambit, while one part of their kit insentivises something (gambit to keep it in the back and not switch it in), going against that will give you a lot more reward.
Idk man, I'm just tired of people arguing moon is balanced. People just aren't exploring its potential. You know it has more than dd, acro, e-quake, knock off and taunt in its movepool?

But the rest of the post is wrong, I'm using meloetta for pete's sake, you can use lower tier mons/lower rank mons, you just have to be creative in teambuilding. The ubers statement is also wrong, people commonly run weird strategies and not all top rank mons.

 

[Ctann]

But the rest of the post is wrong, I'm using meloetta for pete's sake, you can use lower tier mons/lower rank mons, you just have to be creative in teambuilding. The ubers statement is also wrong, people commonly run weird strategies and not all top rank mons.

can you show me a melotta team that doesn’t have 2 or more of the “S tiers”, - defining s tier as those really effective Pokémon’s like waterpon, roaring moon, long neck, Kyurem, gambit etc - and winning 10+ games in the 1900+ ELO range, random matchups and no identical?

I’d be very curious to see it.

haven’t been able to pull this kind of thing off all gen, the power level at the top is significantly more divergent from the mean compared to all other previous gens.

as late as last gen I was running an all-UU team in top ladder, 1900+ ELO . I can’t do it now.

You could use alternative stuff like rotom-heat to deal with clefable/double iron bash, and supplement it with the support to cover its problems like overheat being the only fire stab and giving free setup, weakness to dragons, etc. you can’t really find equivalents for this now. There is no creative way to deal with gambit for example, you need multiple ways and 1 of them has to be a top-tier pokemon.

the gambit example:

1. you get a cool non-meta pokemon you wanna make work
2, but gambit sets up on it
3. all good, you add 3 gambit checks to the team
4. In addition to restricting how you could build with the rest of the team since you needed 3 gambit checks, gambit has approx a 40% games rate where it bypasses your other checks due to game flow weakening the most critical check to its specific set and/or Tera type. This actually happens in the most competitive parts of ladder, because these players know how to force it. Else they sack or trade the gambit if they can’t see a game win with its specific set matchup.
5. So your win rate against non-gambit teams is not too great, due to over preparing for gambit, but your win rate against gambit isn’t that great either. 40% bypass rate when gambit has 40% usage is a big impact
6. End result, try as you might, you only fluke your way up to the 1900s at times but cannot keep a 5+ games in a row record in the 1900s

gambit is the easiest one to look at, because it’s so clear as mud. There’s even legitimate strategy behind the 5 shitmons + gambit technique. Although you get better ELO mileage if it’s 5 okay mons + gambit and make the decision on whether your gambit set is the one that can end the game against the specific matchup, or if you’re gonna trade/sack it and win with another technique.

just insight from someone who doesn’t like running top teams, just fun stuff for a challenge.

 

[Heatranator]

can you show me a melotta team that doesn’t have at least 2 of the “S tiers”, - defining s tier as those really effective Pokémon’s like waterpon, roaring moon, long neck, Kyurem, gambit etc - and winning 10+ games in the 1900+ ELO range, random matchups and no identical?

I’d be very curious to see it.

haven’t been able to pull this kind of thing off all gen, the power level at the top is significantly more divergent from the mean compared to all other previous gens.

as late as last gen I was running an all-UU team in top ladder, 1900+ ELO . I can’t do it now.

You could use alternative stuff like rotom-heat to deal with clefable/double iron bash, and supplement it with the support to cover its problems like overheat being the only fire stab and giving free setup, weakness to dragons, etc. you can’t really find equivalents for this now. There is no creative way to deal with gambit for example, you need multiple ways and 1 of them has to be a top-tier pokemon.

just insight from someone who doesn’t like running top teams, just fun stuff for a challenge.

I would be suprised if any tier you could not use "S tier" mons as you put it. S tier is mons that are either broken or centralising to the point they neccessitate their use i.e. not using them would be severly hampering your team. I don't think that's the case for any mons in OU. Even something like tusk or gambit can be replaced on a team with something else, who are the actual two S rank in the vr. Everything else is A rank, which means they are good, but not neccesitated.
Let's look at gambit, sure, it nothing can truly replicate its role, but only three of the 8 sample teams have gambit on it, though I would say 7 because one is stall which can't fit gambit normally. Only one of those teams has a tusk on it, which is not showing its neccesitated on teams. The zamazenta stack team stack team and weavile + volcarona balance doesn't have the s tier mons you described. Sure, it has really great mons on it, but that's simply just a good team.
I'm impressed that last gen you ran an all UU team in top ladder. A creative way to deal with gambit is tera fighting avalugg. That basically hard counters gambit as it has recovery, iron defense and can tera fighting to destroy gambit. It even spins for the team.
+2 252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Tera Dark Kingambit Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Fighting Avalugg: 204-241 (51.7 - 61.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
It has to use its strongest move, tera and get to +2 in order to get this calc, I'd say that's a creative way.
Another example is cobalion, Welcome to mars has posted a lot about cobalion, and it's pretty great, it outspeeds gambit easily, resists both moves and can id+bp up. It's not the most surefire answer, but it's stil pretty good.
I'm was able to get to 1500s with the meloetta team, sure, that's not 1900s, but that's the highest I've gotten, so someone much better than me could probably do it. I'm sure you could find a way to do another UU only team in SV, but calling that the tier UU lite because of that seems not very fair, your still able to run UU mons such as Keldeo and Excadrill in OU to good effect.

 

[Time Waster]

can you show me a melotta team that doesn’t have 2 or more of the “S tiers”, - defining s tier as those really effective Pokémon’s like waterpon, roaring moon, long neck, Kyurem, gambit etc - and winning 10+ games in the 1900+ ELO range, random matchups and no identical?

I’d be very curious to see it.

haven’t been able to pull this kind of thing off all gen, the power level at the top is significantly more divergent from the mean compared to all other previous gens.

as late as last gen I was running an all-UU team in top ladder, 1900+ ELO . I can’t do it now.

You could use alternative stuff like rotom-heat to deal with clefable/double iron bash, and supplement it with the support to cover its problems like overheat being the only fire stab and giving free setup, weakness to dragons, etc. you can’t really find equivalents for this now. There is no creative way to deal with gambit for example, you need multiple ways and 1 of them has to be a top-tier pokemon.

the gambit example:

1. you get a cool non-meta pokemon you wanna make work
2, but gambit sets up on it
3. all good, you add 3 gambit checks to the team
4. In addition to restricting how you could build with the rest of the team since you needed 3 gambit checks, gambit has approx a 40% games rate where it bypasses your other checks due to game flow weakening the most critical check to its specific set and/or Tera type.

just insight from someone who doesn’t like running top teams, just fun stuff for a challenge.

Full UU team in the 1900's. No Meloetta but that is a total shitmon lol. I've played this guy a couple times and it's pretty solid. I think a lot of the top UU mons can have a solid niche.

 

[BolTingBlazie]

a lot of very unsavory characters got very mad at me over ctc getting banned because they somehow got it in their heads that it's my fault. i've had plenty of threats sent my way—never on the forums but plenty on reddit

Holy shit man that's rough. I'm sorry you have to put up with unsavory characters like that, you always have been pretty chill, and clearly people shouldn't have blamed you for CTC being banned since it was his own fault for getting a little too heated in his arguments. Dealing with that type of stuff truly sucks.

 

[Heatranator]

Full UU team in the 1900's. No Meloetta but that is a total shitmon lol. I've played this guy a couple times and it's pretty solid. I think a lot of the top UU mons can have a solid niche.

Meloetta isn't bad, it can destroy some teams that try to pivot around resists or stall teams due to it constantly switching forms and threatening on both sides of the spectrum. Plus, relic song is busted on it, 20% sleep chance is proccing at least once per game.
Though thank you for showing the UU only team, that's quite a cool team.

 

[Ctann]

Full UU team in the 1900's. No Meloetta but that is a total shitmon lol. I've played this guy a couple times and it's pretty solid. I think a lot of the top UU mons can have a solid niche.

it’s possible to fluke into the 1900s with teams , the challenge is staying there with the same team.

once other players know your [less than 2 Pokémon’s are in the highest value core of OU] team and have played it before, they don’t let you win again.

the key word “let you win”.

This is because good players can force outcomes once the teams are known and the structure can be punished in a MU.

 

[658Greninja]

can you show me a melotta team that doesn’t have at least 2 of the “S tiers”, - defining s tier as those really effective Pokémon’s like waterpon, roaring moon, long neck, Kyurem, gambit etc - and winning 10+ games in the 1900+ ELO range, random matchups and no identical?

I’d be very curious to see it.

haven’t been able to pull this kind of thing off all gen, the power level at the top is significantly more divergent from the mean compared to all other previous gens.

as late as last gen I was running an all-UU team in top ladder, 1900+ ELO . I can’t do it now.

You could use alternative stuff like rotom-heat to deal with clefable/double iron bash, and supplement it with the support to cover its problems like overheat being the only fire stab and giving free setup, weakness to dragons, etc. you can’t really find equivalents for this now. There is no creative way to deal with gambit for example, you need multiple ways and 1 of them has to be a top-tier pokemon.

just insight from someone who doesn’t like running top teams, just fun stuff for a challenge.

Just cause you don’t see teams running 6 UU mons doesn’t make the tier devoid of creativity. Having 2 S rank mons and a fringe pick on the same team does not invalidate that fringe pick. The other day I beat someone at the 2000 ELO with a Krookodile team. In general it matched up decently into a couple meta threats thanks to Intimidate + STAB Knock + the Dark Typing. The S rank mons patch up many teambuilding holes, which allows you to slot those niche picks in the first place. There are off-meta picks that can check those threats, so I have to disagree with your notion of no creative ways to dealing with top mons.

For example, Empoleon matches up really nicely into Kyurem. Only 2HKOd by the Specs EP variant or Tera Ground Boots which Empo can respond with using Tera Fairy. Empo sports nice utility with Knock, Roar, Haze, and Rocks. Besides Kyu, Empo matches up well into Prim, Volc, Clef, Pult, etc.

Thundy-I has been putting work in almost every game thanks to Prankster T-Wave, Knock, and Boltbeam coverage with Tera Ice. It provides worthwhile speed control vs stuff like Val, Zama, and Pult. Even in games where I faced the opponent twice (some of these are from high level games) Thundy still does its job off the mere threat of T-Wave and Tera Ice.

 

[Ctann]

Just cause you don’t see teams running 6 UU mons doesn’t make the tier devoid of creativity. Having 2 S rank mons and a fringe pick on the same team does not invalidate that fringe pick. The other day I beat someone at the 2000 ELO with a Krookodile team. In general it matched up decently into a couple meta threats thanks to Intimidate + STAB Knock + the Dark Typing. The S rank mons patch up many teambuilding holes, which allows you to slot those niche picks in the first place. There are off-meta picks that can check those threats, so I have to disagree with your notion of no creative ways to dealing with top mons.

For example, Empoleon matches up really nicely into Kyurem. Only 2HKOd by the Specs EP variant or Tera Ground Boots which Empo can respond with using Tera Fairy. Empo sports nice utility with Knock, Roar, Haze, and Rocks. Besides Kyu, Empo matches up well into Prim, Volc, Clef, Pult, etc.

Thundy-I has been putting work in almost every game thanks to Prankster T-Wave, Knock, and Boltbeam coverage with Tera Ice. It provides worthwhile speed control vs stuff like Val, Zama, and Pult. Even in games where I faced the opponent twice (some of these are from high level games) Thundy still does its job off the mere threat of T-Wave and Tera Ice.

I had a feeling mentioning the example of UU mons would mean people specifically focus on that.

im saying run a team without 2 or more of the elite Pokémon’s in OU. It can be all OU, doesn’t need to be UU.

show me a team that meets that condition, ignore the UU details.

and the key here is consistency. Multiple games in the highest ELO get to 10+ wins and total win rate at least 33% of them for all games played 1900+

 

[Heatranator]

it’s possible to fluke into the 1900s with teams , the challenge is staying there with the same team.

once other players know your team and have played it before, they don’t let you win again.

the key word “let you win”.

This is because good players can force outcomes once the teams are known and inferior

Bruh, he literally showed a team that got to 1900s, which is what you wanted to see. If you are facing the same team constantly, of course you will be able to do much better against it, that's called matchup experience.
Just because a team is known, doesn't mean it is inferior, it can still do well. It seems like your complaining because you personally haven't been able to use 6 UU mons, and that's fine. In most gens, you won't be able to use 6 UU mons on a team, there is a reason why they are UU.

 

[Ctann]

Bruh, he literally showed a team that got to 1900s, which is what you wanted to see. If you are facing the same team constantly, of course you will be able to do much better against it, that's called matchup experience.
Just because a team is known, doesn't mean it is inferior, it can still do well. It seems like your complaining because you personally haven't been able to use 6 UU mons, and that's fine. In most gens, you won't be able to use 6 UU mons on a team, there is a reason why they are UU.

understood the “peak elo reaching 1900s” example, thanks.

it’s not consistency to just peak.

consistency is the recent teams that won tournaments for example getting copy pasted, and many people run them at high ladder.

that’s consistency.

can anyone build a [non-stall] team without at least 2 of the elite members of OU. Objective: play up to 30 games, win 10+ games with total win rate of 33% or better for games all over 1900 ELO. Specifically for the games played in 1900+. Both players need to be 1900 ELO or better at the start of the game.

it’s not easy..

 

[Heatranator]

understood the “peak elo reaching 1900s” example, thanks.

it’s not consistency to just peak.

consistency is the recent teams that won tournaments for example getting copy pasted, and many people run them at high ladder.

that’s consistency.

can anyone build a team with win rate of 33% or better for games all over 1900 ELO, goal is to reach 10 wins whilst staying above 33% win rate specifically for the games played in 1900+. Both players need to be 1900 ELO or better at the start of the game.

it’s not easy..

Of course it's not easy, if it was easy to stay 1900+ using any team, I'd be concerned.
https://pokepast.es/4884e69ff7b66a10
I literally created this team in 2 minutes, it uses mons below A- rank in the viability rankings. Two of them are even UUBL/UU mons.
I don't know how this team would actually work, but it has decent shot. It has hazards from hamurott, defensive core of Garg, Corv and Dirge and two fast attackers in dragonite and Iron valiant.
Also, 1900s is insanely high on ladder, the highest elo on ladder is 2071, the first 1900s player is rank 44.

 

[Ctann]

Of course it's not easy, if it was easy to stay 1900+ using any team, I'd be concerned.
https://pokepast.es/4884e69ff7b66a10
I literally created this team in 2 minutes, it uses mons below A- rank in the viability rankings. Two of them are even UUBL/UU mons.
I don't know how this team would actually work, but it has decent shot. It has hazards from hamurott, defensive core of Garg, Corv and Dirge and two fast attackers in dragonite and Iron valiant.

I’ll try it thanks.

unfortunately it doesn’t have anything fun or outside the box, but I guess that wasn’t a condition of the request haha.

 

[Time Waster]

it’s possible to fluke into the 1900s with teams , the challenge is staying there with the same team.

once other players know your [less than 2 Pokémon’s are in the highest value core of OU] team and have played it before, they don’t let you win again.

the key word “let you win”.

This is because good players can force outcomes once the teams are known and the structure can be punished in a MU.

I don't remember how long he stayed in 1900s but I remember seeing that team the last month or two pretty high up. It popped into my head reading your comment because it was pretty distinct. Anyway, I agree. It's hard to make non meta picks work when you can use pult, gambit, bolt, zama, volc, lando, val, dengo, etc. instead.

Meloetta isn't bad, it can destroy some teams that try to pivot around resists or stall teams due to it constantly switching forms and threatening on both sides of the spectrum. Plus, relic song is busted on it, 20% sleep chance is proccing at least once per game.
Though thank you for showing the UU only team, that's quite a cool team.

I'll have to disagree with you there lol, maybe if it could start off in Pirouette form.

 

[YubelVT]

Meloetta isn't bad, it can destroy some teams that try to pivot around resists or stall teams due to it constantly switching forms and threatening on both sides of the spectrum. Plus, relic song is busted on it, 20% sleep chance is proccing at least once per game.
Though thank you for showing the UU only team, that's quite a cool team.

Speaking of meloetta I'm always gonna be sad that Game Freak didn't give her an item that lets her start in Pirouette forme. Meloetta-P is a blessed pokemon other than the fact that you have to spend a turn transforming.

 

[Heatranator]

Speaking of meloetta I'm always gonna be sad that Game Freak didn't give her an item that lets her start in Pirouette forme. Meloetta-P is a blessed pokemon other than the fact that you have to spend a turn transforming.

It's actually not as difficult as you would think to transform, meloetta can threaten something out with a psychic most of the time, which allows you to click relic song easily and transform. They don't even want to stay in that often to predict the relic song since it can potentially sleep them, so its much freer than you think.
The main issue with meloetta is getting it into battle, but with careful positioning, it can be done. Something like glowking is good entry, since knock off threatens it a lot.

 

[Bold School]

I am going to amend my former ban Booster Energy and Volcorona thought. Maybe change that to Booster Energy and Tera Blast? I was against banning Tera Blast before because A. I don't think it is problematic (though maybe neither is BE) on most mons and B. it isn't really going to fix the issues Tera creates. But I began to change my mind when it was brought up that Regieleki could maybe be dropped awhile back. There are still problems with this, but the amount of viable Ground, Dragon, and Grass types in the tier arguably make any electric type with no coverage much less threatening.

Anyways, I had honed in on Volcorona because it was one of the only two borderline mons that doesn't abuse BE and wasn't recently suspected like Kyurem. The other being Waterpon. But Wellspring doesn't snowball the same way (Quiver Dance goes brrrr) and it has a locked Tera type.

Volcorona is one of the biggest abusers of Tera. This is why it is known as matchup moth. It is also one of the only mons that tends to rely on Tera Blast for coverage. Getting rid of Tera Blast maybe take the edge off that thing. You still have defensive Tera + Quiver Dance. But it is more manageable when you aren't worried about specific coverages. Like Dragons could be used to check Volc more easily if they don't also have to worry about Dragon Tera Blast coming their way. You'd just be worried about having to defend more conventional coverage options like Giga Drain or Psychic.

Going after Tera Blast is a red herring, but maybe one with some positive effects.

Long story short:

Take the edge off of Paradox mons with Booster Energy and take the edge off of Volc with Tera Blast. IF it turns out we can't ban any more mons, we could target BE or both BE and TB to take some pressure off the team builder that way. Maybe Tera Blast ban would have other decent secondary effects.

Anyways, this is just my latest iteration of that former thought. Finch already said things would need to change for a BE ban to be seriously considered. For the record, the options brought up here are also not my first or second choice for action.

 

[GummyRowlets]

What is your Top 5?
, , , ,
: I don't really have to explain. Continues to be the only good hazard removal while having next to impossible switch in headlongs. And using ice spinner, hits all the other answers that they're safe against headlong such as dnite or Gliscor. Skamory and corviknights are the only 100% true counter to the headlong/ ice spinner combo. Knock or rocks are always great utility moves as well. Without tusk, many balance and even HO teams would be far worst.
: This mon is truly the most spammed special wall. Regenerator is needed in such an offensive tier and having the tools of Thunder Wave and Chilly for pivoting and halting sweepers is really needed. Just like tusk, it's literally holding a lot of balance teams, and without it, so many mons such as raging bolt, Kyurem, special val, wake, and serperior would be so much more busted. The amount of defense it brings is unparalleled and is the most consistent special wall from my personal experience
: I'm not explaining this a lot. It has the strongest priority of the game and fits on many playstyles from balance to HO with even rare sightings on stall teams. It does the same thing every game but it's dam consistent just like a good cold water at 3:00 AM.
: I have it up here mainly for hazards and toxic. Unlike Skarmory which can be passive into many counters such as Pult, raging bolt, gholdengo, or anything that can interfere with iron defense, body press like encore ogerpon or taunt roaring moon, Gliscor always does something. It doesn't just set hazards but can knock forcing progress into many teams, and in a generation where everything lost toxic, Gliscor is one the few that has it and annoys the hell out of everything with it. The utility it brings and its consistency as a physical wall make me put it up here.
: May be controversial, but this mon is a nightmare. Ogerpon with ivy, sd, play rough, and grass stab has no counter on the defensive side, and this heavily limits team building. Even the dragon which should be consistent checks to pon typically only do so in the short term. And although not as crazy speed tier, it's efficient enoguh to break most team defensive cores. It just puts a whole strain as a whole and honestly should be suspected. Not nearly as spam able as the pervious four but still busted in it's own right

Who’s the most overrated mon in OU?
: Honestly, Gholdengo is good but isn't the craziest in this metagame. I don't see it being used on cores with Gliscor or Skamor for hazard stack anymore, and it's typing has become more of a liability when their are dark types everywhere in the tier. Still good overall but def not the best. I expect it's usage to even drop off the top ten in my opinion.

Who’s the most underrated mon in OU?
This mon, although not nearly as bad, can break defensive cores just as ogerpon can, although with some more luck needed. With nasty plot, dark pulse, focus blast, and ice beam/ sludge bomb it has no counters against it and even outspeeds most threats in the tier. The only true defensive counter would be prim and ting-lu. I do think it's being slept on as of now and may even rise in the future. I know I've heard recent discussion on this pokemon earlier.

Who do you think will rise/drop?
and
: Honestly, I thought this mon was overhyped with triple axle and I was right. It feels inconsistent in testing. It does have good stall breaking potential with flower trick, axle, knock, and move of your choice, but besides that, it nothing special and will prob drop
: One problem and one problem only. Its mono attacking type sucks and, especially with all the dragons about, it can't OHKO anything. Even dpulse doesn't help with it not getting the knock out unless you tera. +2 252 SpA Serperior Dragon Pulse (85 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Roaring Moon: 256-302 (72.9 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

What’s your favorite anti-stall core/set/mon?
, , and big bad choice or stall breaker
Nothing too serious but spamming this regen cores allows you to pivot around a lot to bring in breakers on your team. With regen you take minimal damage from various moves and hazard chips. Not crazy like I said but i like it.

 

[TheDuckChris]

What is your Top 5?


Who’s the most overrated mon in OU?
It's a great Mon but the vulnerability to spikes really does do some damage and most teams now are pretty prepared for it with fast U-turn or sturdy water resists.

Who’s the most underrated mon in OU?
I definitely expect this to be higher than B+ on the next VR, court change is as good as ever but also nothing besides really fat teams likes switching into pyro ball and even then the burn chance is really scary.

Who do you think will rise/drop?
sorry fella it's your time to go

What’s your favorite anti-stall core/set/mon?
with knock off and nasty plot + layers. A nightmare for anything to switch into not named Muk

 

[GummyRowlets]

Does anyone know any good defensive cores in the current meta game? I've just been using with or to back me up, and its the main core I've been using. I just want something to not make my team stale.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

Excellent post as always.

What is your Top 5?


Who's the most overrated mon in OU?


Who's the most underrated mon in OU?


Who do you think will rise/drop?

(other mons should drop or rise but ladder is bad)

What's your favorite anti-stall core/set/mon?
Ada Taunt + Tera Dark Glasses

my top 5

i still think gambit is broken. not the most broken thing in the tier anymore, but still broken. yes, i think it's the best mon in the tier but not the most broken one. it blanket-checks most things simply by existing at the right time. it's a living, breathing get-out-of-jail-free card and i hate it hate it hate it

tusk is this generation's buzzwole, but specifically optimized for the hazard meta. the usefulness of this mon cannot be overstated, especially in a meta this hazard-heavy with gholdengo and kingambit in it. it can wallbreak, set up, tank stuff, clean in the late game, set hazards, remove hazards, knock off, absorb knock off, remove terrain, wash your dishes, mow your lawn, repair that hole in your roof, get rid of ant infestations, cure headaches, protect your passwords from cybercriminals, and it even works underwater! order great tusk today for only $29.95 plus shipping and handling and we'll throw in a galarian slowking at no extra charge!

remember back at the beginning of the gen when everyone was scared of physical ghost tera blast ddance on this thing? hah, good times. instead all we have to be afraid of is specs and band and wisp and twave and sub and quick attack for some fucking reason and sash and oh yeah it also runs physical ghost tera blast sometimes. is it a problem? jury's still out on that, but public opinion seems to be increasingly trending towards "maybe" rather than the firm "no" it had earlier in the gen

dumb 50/50 machine like gambit, but at least it doesn't have a stupid comeback mechanic to go with it and things are actually immune to its dumb 50/50 move. i think it's broken, but so's everything these days and i don't really have the energy to care at this point

heavily underrated in my opinion. not broken, but one of the best mons in the meta. sets spikes like nobody's business, nothing can set up on it with confidence because it can phaze and isn't passive, and it just does. not. die. it's an a- mon in ubers, which not only has an insanely higher power level but is also full of mons that body it (koraidon, zac-c, kyogre, ho-oh, arc-fairy, pao, gliscor, caly-ice, etc). that doesn't necessarily translate one-to-one to equal viability in ou, but it just goes to show you how insane ting-lu's stat spread and utility are that it can not just hold its own but thrive in that environment. use ting-lu, guys, it's great

most overrated mon
, specifically with earth power
i was gonna say iron boulder but everyone already knows that mon is doomed to uubl so it's technically no longer overrated. earth power lando-t, on the other hand, does not deserve the hype it's been getting. people have just forgotten what special ground-type offensive pivots are supposed to be like and are shoving mons like lando-t and treads into the role instead of just using sandy shocks like god intended. it's like clobbering someone over the head with a shotgun, or serving salsa out of a gravy boat—sure, it technically works and there are scenarios where it might be optimal, but there's just a way better and more obvious method of getting where you want to go. i've seen plenty of established and talented people endorse earth power lando-t and make well-founded, legitimate arguments for its use. to these arguments i say, respectfully, "nuh uh". i simply do not believe it and i'll wear this tinfoil hat all day long if i have to

most underrated mon

this thing is a monster. dozo-level bulk with a massive attack stat to back it up, insanely good offensive coverage, swords dance, pivoting ability. the only things holding it back are the lack of a real eterrain setter and the fact that good physical electric moves don't actually exist, and even then it can still wreck shit with thunder punch (or, if you're a true maniac, supercell slam). iron hands is also one of the only mons that can feasibly run the based and chadlike item punching glove—clicking drain punch, thunder punch, and ice punch is a lot more comfortable when you don't have to worry about rocky helmet or flame body, and that 1.1x boost can end up making a difference at +2. maybe at some point in the future (heh, future) someone will find a way to viably set up eterrain and iron hands will become the big guy he was always destined to be

what will rise

in addition to these, i expect one surprise mon that no one has on their "moving up to ou" radar, but i don't know who

what will drop


favorite anti-stall thing
it's the fucking sun band gouging fire set. as much as i hate the fact that it's still here, i can't deny that it makes me feel like a god to punch holes that big through opposing stall teams without them being able to do literally anything about it. the only way—the only way—for stall to not instalose to this set is to sack something, bring in dozo, and start cursing, which just gives you an easy switch to a dozo answer (like, say, raging bolt) if you play it right and don't lock yourself into raging fury too early. or they could run some unviable shit like dachsbun or physdef scream tail, but c'mon

also page 369 haha nice