Unpopular opinions

[ant4456]

Frames per second. Basically it's how smoothly the game can render individual frames. Personally I don't really care for them that much, but there's people who apparently take them pretty seriously

Honestly I'm more on the sensitive side. A few stutters and I feel a need to change settings on PC, or just don't like it.

I've also noticed that I just notice them more than other people. Like, in my opinion Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Rescue Team DX does not run well at all. I've noticed stuttering even in in-engine scripted scenes, and there is even input lag I notice. But I haven't seen anyone else find it. Even when I show people a video, they usually have to slow down the video to see it.

I'm not sure why I am this way. I didn't even grow up with snobby stuff or whatever, I grew up on Nintendo systems. Getting into PC gaming (for the record I have a low end one, can barely play new gen games) certainly did play a part, but also the eyes can definitely adapt.

For certain genres I think it 100% matters though. Hardcore platformers, rhythm games, fighting games, etc. IMO need 60fps minimum, because the lower FPS also makes it harder to get out inputs as soon as possible. I will never play Super Mario 3D World Bowser's Fury in handheld mode because it cuts the framerate in half, and it just feels less responsive and IMO looks kinda bad.

 

[Sonikku A]

DP isn't slow cuz lower FPS. It's slow cuz it's slow
We can literally see Plat, running at the same fps, be slightly faster in surfing and battle anim delay

There are plenty of 30fps rpgs that have snappy battle sequences. Pokemon being slow is...well, it's own design intended issue. Seriously, just seen in Gen 3's decomp there are a lot of forced delays for actions hardcoded cuz GF felt like it. Gen 1/2 saving is actually quick, but they force a delay to make it slow cuz...I dunno

Similarly, BW is fast cuz for once HP is scaled to percentage. It being 60fps doesn't mean shit cuz Gen 3 also was 60fps, yet slower

The argument falls flat again given later games barely are 30-60fps, but still are way faster than Gen 2-4 for menuing and battle sequence.

 

[ant4456]

DP isn't slow cuz lower FPS. It's slow cuz it's slow
We can literally see Plat, running at the same fps, be slightly faster in surfing and battle anim delay

There are plenty of 30fps rpgs that have snappy battle sequences. Pokemon being slow is...well, it's own design intended issue. Seriously, just seen in Gen 3's decomp there are a lot of forced delays for actions hardcoded cuz GF felt like it. Gen 1/2 saving is actually quick, but they force a delay to make it slow cuz...I dunno

Similarly, BW is fast cuz for once HP is scaled to percentage. It being 60fps doesn't mean shit cuz Gen 3 also was 60fps, yet slower

The argument falls flat again given later games barely are 30-60fps, but still are way faster than Gen 2-4 for menuing and battle sequence.

While there is merit to this argument, higher FPS absolutely does add to turn based games feeling better and being more snappy.

Persona 5 feels better in 60fps than in 30fps. Modding Brilliant Diamond to be 60fps feels better, etc. Yeah, the coding is primarily to blame, but that doesn't mean that a higher framerate is not a part of the battling feeling better. Diamond and Pearl being 30fps to me particularly feels worse because in my opinion the battles are not only ugly, but they are also doing very little visually. Pokemon Emerald may also be not as fast as Gen 5, but at least it is 60fps for the visual quality we are getting.

To me, the point of contention with framerate versus visual fidelity/where it matters is about balance, not just pure ideas like "everything should be 60fps", because of course not. Diamond and Pearl being 30fps is pathetic to me because it's doing so little visually that I feel that it is not justifying its 30fps cap. Is it the main reason it feels slow? No, but I think it is not good in of itself. Turn-based JRPGs are absolutely one of the lowest priorities for framerates in terms of genres, but it is a nice thing to have, and a lot of JRPGs make up for it with scope and fidelity. I do not feel that Pokemon DP do either, personally, though I do get why others don't agree.

 

[Sonikku A]

Oh no I agree for DP it's a "you look shit. Why?" Kinda thing
Though sadly I have to blame that more on DS's quirk of halving framerate to have 3D on screen. Though GF could've avoided that if they were purely 2D, so...

Seriously, this area is so shit

It's only cool in fanart that makes the scale of the waterfall and castle be way bigger, and roof spires not ass. Otherwise it's boxier and more generic than Evergrande City

 

[ant4456]

I

Oh no I agree for DP it's a "you look shit. Why?" Kinda thing
Though sadly I have to blame that more on DS's quirk of halving framerate to have 3D on screen. Though GF could've avoided that if they were purely 2D, so...

Seriously, this area is so shit View attachment 630786

It's only cool in fanart that makes the scale of the waterfall and castle be way bigger, and roof spires not ass. Otherwise it's boxier and more generic than Evergrande City

I was gonna say that like, tbh if they did this anyways it might have been better to just go fully sprite based for DP. I get why they didn't but it might have made for a nice send off to the fully-2D style before Gen 5 would go more hard on it ^^.

Not like anyone is complaining about Explorers of Sky, The World Ends With You, or some other games as well being fully 2D.

I will say I think HGSS does it so much better though. HGSS can look really good and I think its color composition is generally just cleaner. DP still has a lot of classic Pokemon grass + boulder style tiling while HGSS reimagines a lot of the areas.

Ecruteak City is the one I think of a lot, it's so colorful from a town that was more generic in the original.

Honestly I hope that when we get a Pokemon XY remake it's really good. HGSS and ORAS show that when Game Freak wants, they can really evolve areas and styles visually. Kalos has a lot of towns that are very close to being breathtaking but are limited by the hardware IMO, or the fact that the player is there for so little time because the game can be blitzed through so fast. The artstyle also can feel a bit faded at times.

Like Ambrette Town could go so fucking hard with some reworks and upgrades. The idea of a town overlooking the new region of Kalos is so cool, but we kinda just blitz through it and the splitting of the dex doesn't feel very impactful. With how the series seems to be heading in the direction of more split level design with completionism in each, I could imagine this being transitioned into smoothly.

 

[VividBunnie]

Frames per second. Basically it's how smoothly the game can render individual frames. Personally I don't really care for them that much, but there's people who apparently take them pretty seriously

It the case for Pokémon, its mostly important for the game's RNG functions. But yeah, personally as long as the game isn't running like a turtle through molasses it isn't going to be a dealbreaker issue otherwise.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

The sheer difference in vibrancy between DP Sinnoh and Platinum Sinnoh is really palpable. Diamond and Pearl's Sinnoh looks pretty dull and bland when you look at everything.

But Platinum's Sinnoh just pops a lot more and looks a lot more vibrant and diverse to the point where you really remember it. The colors pop a lot more, the environments look a lot more distinctive and immersive, and in general it just looks so much better.

HGSS Johto looks really good too, on par with Platinum's Sinnoh, and Platinum and HGSS manage to look really good with vibrant color schemes of the environment.

But Diamond and Pearl on the other hand? Yeah that's some boring stuff in just about every aspect.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

FPS is overrated :)

(both acronyms)

FPS absolutely matters, if anything "graphics" are overrated.

If a game has good models and all that, but lacks good framerate, it instantly looks like trash to me. On the other hand, I don't really mind weaker graphics if the game is as smooth as my brain because it runs at 60fps.

Oh no I agree for DP it's a "you look shit. Why?" Kinda thing
Though sadly I have to blame that more on DS's quirk of halving framerate to have 3D on screen. Though GF could've avoided that if they were purely 2D, so...

Seriously, this area is so shit View attachment 630786

It's only cool in fanart that makes the scale of the waterfall and castle be way bigger, and roof spires not ass. Otherwise it's boxier and more generic than Evergrande City

Sinnoh's grass tile colors have always irked me. Ol radioactive green ahh colors

 

[Wukong]

The sheer difference in vibrancy between DP Sinnoh and Platinum Sinnoh is really palpable. Diamond and Pearl's Sinnoh looks pretty dull and bland when you look at everything.

But Platinum's Sinnoh just pops a lot more and looks a lot more vibrant and diverse to the point where you really remember it. The colors pop a lot more, the environments look a lot more distinctive and immersive, and in general it just looks so much better.

HGSS Johto looks really good too, on par with Platinum's Sinnoh, and Platinum and HGSS manage to look really good with vibrant color schemes of the environment.

But Diamond and Pearl on the other hand? Yeah that's some boring stuff in just about every aspect.

Couldn't agree more. I think the difference is most palpable in the Battle Zone (one of my favorite areas in all of Pokemon). In DP, it's just a generic collection of routes and towns. In Platinum, it turns into such an interesting, never before seen medley of colors and tropical ecosystems.

Seriously if not for Platinum, Sinnoh would have been such an incredibly poorly represented region, frankly.

 

[nitchenkightmares]

My unpopular pokemon opinion? I'd say difficulty options.
They should not be a thing, in ANY official main series pokemon game.
Yes, BW2 did them and they failed miserably. Such awful design. So much subterfuge in trading "keys" only to learn the enemy pokemon's stats do not even change.

A pokemon game with a higher difficulty would have better pokemon and movesets as a given while banning items, but what the player can do to thwart the opponents pokemon is also a factor in difficulty? The player can use setup; use disruptors like encore and protect; use shedinja; etc.. Of course, you can ban all of those, but removing entire moves from the player for difficulty is tacky.

 

[Coronis]

It the case for Pokémon, its mostly important for the game's RNG functions. But yeah, personally as long as the game isn't running like a turtle through molasses it isn't going to be a dealbreaker issue otherwise.

Which, for the vast majority of players is a non-issue fortunately.

FPS absolutely matters, if anything "graphics" are overrated.

If a game has good models and all that, but lacks good framerate, it instantly looks like trash to me. On the other hand, I don't really mind weaker graphics if the game is as smooth as my brain because it runs at 60fps.

Tbh neither are really big deals for me, unless say the lag gets to a ridiculous level. Even with launch SV I didn’t really have many issues at all, probably noticed something going a bit slow once or twice.

And yeah graphics are like, cool and all. Like, I love the graphics in the Switch Zelda games but I literally couldn’t give a crap that Pokemon’s aren’t at that level, I’m not playing games for graphics (obviously its a cool bonus but meh).

 

[DrrT]

FPS absolutely matters, if anything "graphics" are overrated.

If a game has good models and all that, but lacks good framerate, it instantly looks like trash to me. On the other hand, I don't really mind weaker graphics if the game is as smooth as my brain because it runs at 60fps.

There is a very obvious example in SV themselves in fact. The models are pretty good and a lot of the mons have improvements over the old ones used since XY to SWSH (the Kanto starters are some of the most obvious ones) and the textures are now a lot more "realistic" and less plain- trough that being a good thing or not is mire objective, same with the colors- so you could argue it has good graphics in theory, but that hardly matters when things start to move and the FPS inmediatly flop hard.

I don't usually care that much about FPS myself, but it's definetly noticeable. I can understand how after getting used to better frame rates people can have a hard time playing games without them. Of course, each game is different (as much as I love the core gameplay, the graphics of the last DQM are atrocious and not justified on Switch at all) but you get the idea.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

A pokemon game with a higher difficulty would have better pokemon and movesets as a given while banning items

Huh? That's... Not a thing at all.

My unpopular pokemon opinion? I'd say difficulty options.
They should not be a thing, in ANY official main series pokemon game.
Yes, BW2 did them and they failed miserably. Such awful design. So much subterfuge in trading "keys" only to learn the enemy pokemon's stats do not even change.

That says more about the implementation of an otherwise good feature than the core idea behind it. (The morons locked Easy Mode behind clearing the game on Normal ffs)

Pokémon has too broad of an audience to not have difficulty settings. It can't be *that* hard to implement them since only a handful of trainers don't use their level-up movesets in the games.

 

[ant4456]

My unpopular opinion is that BW having only original Pokemon was a bad idea, and that the negative reception was honestly a bit deserved. I think it's something that people appreciate in retrospect, but at the time it was unpopular because... It's just not practical.

A lot of the Pokemon in Unova's large dex are basically filler Pokemon designed to fit the molds of "Pokemon you need to have in every Region", and even then there is a lack in teambuilding. While nowadays people say "It's cool that you are forced to use the new dex", that is just not a good idea for the series imo, especially when it doesn't commit to it- you can still get them all, and that shapes the Competitive scene and post-game, and it's not a real reboot.

I think B2W2 being received much better at the time was completely warranted with going from pretty bad main series teambuilding to one of the best in the series, with little cut content and almost all additives. The idea of BW is more appealing than the actual thing in practice. I want to play with a new Dex, but I want to have the choice of that, and I want enough Pokemon to have what I want. At least a lot of the BW Pokemon are good to compensate, but that also is sad for the Pokemon that still aren't.

It doesn't make the game bad of course, but yeah I just don't think it was necessary, and I think it backfiring at the time made sense.

 

[pika pal]

Also didn't Hard Mode in B2W2 actually change certain Pokemon's movesets or add held items beyond just altering levels? That's the kind of thing Difficulty Options ought to do with an RPG like this instead of jacking numbers. The fact is Number pumping only works in extremes because GF games don't know how to do AI behavior that makes symmetrical battles difficult, so the player can break their AI to the extent that their stat advantage doesn't matter even before items come into the equation.

My unpopular opinion is that BW having only original Pokemon was a bad idea, and that the negative reception was honestly a bit deserved. I think it's something that people appreciate in retrospect, but at the time it was unpopular because... It's just not practical.

A lot of the Pokemon in Unova's large dex are basically filler Pokemon designed to fit the molds of "Pokemon you need to have in every Region", and even then there is a lack in teambuilding. While nowadays people say "It's cool that you are forced to use the new dex", that is just not a good idea for the series imo, especially when it doesn't commit to it- you can still get them all, and that shapes the Competitive scene and post-game, and it's not a real reboot.

I think B2W2 being received much better at the time was completely warranted with going from pretty bad main series teambuilding to one of the best in the series, with little cut content and almost all additives. The idea of BW is more appealing than the actual thing in practice. I want to play with a new Dex, but I want to have the choice of that, and I want enough Pokemon to have what I want. At least a lot of the BW Pokemon are good to compensate, but that also is sad for the Pokemon that still aren't.

It doesn't make the game bad of course, but yeah I just don't think it was necessary, and I think it backfiring at the time made sense.

I think Orre was a better approach to this, in that the limited dex forced experimentation but they still had to pick mons to fill certain niches. They just used to narrow roster to pick choices that existed but usually weren't picked due to appearance time or being outclassed in other games (see Houndour being available BEFORE post-game in GSC/Emerald)

 

[ant4456]

I think Orre was a better approach to this, in that the limited dex forced experimentation but they still had to pick mons to fill certain niches. They just used to narrow roster to pick choices that existed but usually weren't picked due to appearance time or being outclassed in other games (see Houndour being available BEFORE post-game in GSC/Emerald)

I actually am not a fan of how Orre did it, personally I believe that if a Pokemon is in the game, you should be able to use it (unless it's like. Eternamax)

I know part of this is because they're technically also follow ups to Stadium, but as far as I know your catches in Orre do not allow you to just. Not have to import mons to do simulation battles. As far as I know? Correct me if not.

Tbh when it comes to Pokemon and catching I've always had weird opinions ever since I was a kid. When I was a kid I thought Ranger was lame because you were meant to use and then stop using a Pokemon. I wanted to use my favorite Pokemon permanently. I thought Pokemon Rumble's power system was lame because I'd get attached to a figure, it'd become outclassed and I'd have to give it up. Stuff like that kinda. I think it's part of why Pokemon Mystery Dungeon is by far my favorite spinoff series but I'm also a furry sooo.

Wonder if anyone else has ever had thoughts like that?

 

[pika pal]

I actually am not a fan of how Orre did it, personally I believe that if a Pokemon is in the game, you should be able to use it (unless it's like. Eternamax)

I know part of this is because they're technically also follow ups to Stadium, but as far as I know your catches in Orre do not allow you to just. Not have to import mons to do simulation battles. As far as I know? Correct me if not.

What do you mean on the second part? To my knowledge you can use Pokemon from Story Mode for the Battle Mode versions of the various Colosseums and Mt. Battle (and I remember the Game guide for Colosseum saying you had to use stuff from your Save File to run it for Ho-oh, such that you had to import them to the Save via Trading rather than just plugging in the Handheld to use them directly)

 

[Heatranator]

Also didn't Hard Mode in B2W2 actually change certain Pokemon's movesets or add held items beyond just altering levels? That's the kind of thing Difficulty Options ought to do with an RPG like this instead of jacking numbers. The fact is Number pumping only works in extremes because GF games don't know how to do AI behavior that makes symmetrical battles difficult, so the player can break their AI to the extent that their stat advantage doesn't matter even before items come into the equation.

The stats didn't change at all so a level 59 druddigon that would normally be level 57, would have level 57 stats, meaning if you were doing level caps, the battles could actually be easier. GF just implemented the difficulty options poorly.

My unpopular opinion is that BW having only original Pokemon was a bad idea, and that the negative reception was honestly a bit deserved. I think it's something that people appreciate in retrospect, but at the time it was unpopular because... It's just not practical.

A lot of the Pokemon in Unova's large dex are basically filler Pokemon designed to fit the molds of "Pokemon you need to have in every Region", and even then there is a lack in teambuilding. While nowadays people say "It's cool that you are forced to use the new dex", that is just not a good idea for the series imo, especially when it doesn't commit to it- you can still get them all, and that shapes the Competitive scene and post-game, and it's not a real reboot.

I think B2W2 being received much better at the time was completely warranted with going from pretty bad main series teambuilding to one of the best in the series, with little cut content and almost all additives. The idea of BW is more appealing than the actual thing in practice. I want to play with a new Dex, but I want to have the choice of that, and I want enough Pokemon to have what I want. At least a lot of the BW Pokemon are good to compensate, but that also is sad for the Pokemon that still aren't.

It doesn't make the game bad of course, but yeah I just don't think it was necessary, and I think it backfiring at the time made sense.

I think a better aproach would have been you have only new mons for half the game, then it opens up to old mons around some pivotal game event. The only new mons shtick over the whole course of the game is tiring, but its a breath of fresh air at first.

 

[pika pal]

The stats didn't change at all so a level 59 druddigon that would normally be level 57, would have level 57 stats, meaning if you were doing level caps, the battles could actually be easier. GF just implemented the difficulty options poorly.

I think a better aproach would have been you have only new mons for half the game, then it opens up to old mons around some pivotal game event. The only new mons shtick over the whole course of the game is tiring, but its a breath of fresh air at first.

This is why I cited the addition of items and some moveset changes being more relevant than level ups regardless.

On the second part, that sounds like what the Gen 6 games did with the Mascot battle causing the new Mega Stones to pop up and in ORAS I believe causing Nat Dex/Spawns for it to become available, with the issue in those cases being they're a bit too late game to bother swapping things in or adding to an incomplete team.

 

[Sonikku A]

I feel having a dex be 65-75% new mons (that aren't cross evos) and 25% old mons with at least 100-120 new mons is healthy. I like Gen 3's amount of new and old stuff

Gen 6 and on have just...aggressively brought back so many old mons the new mons rep is piss

 

[Coronis]

My unpopular opinion is that BW having only original Pokemon was a bad idea, and that the negative reception was honestly a bit deserved. I think it's something that people appreciate in retrospect, but at the time it was unpopular because... It's just not practical.

I don’t think this is an unpopular opinion, I mean you even mention the negative reception.

 

[ant4456]

I don’t think this is an unpopular opinion, I mean you even mention the negative reception.

I think the perspective changed over time, I mean. At the time it was really negative, but nowadays I almost always hear praise for it, especially as it was a bold decision.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

I think the perspective changed over time, I mean. At the time it was really negative, but nowadays I almost always hear praise for it, especially as it was a bold decision.

Every Pokemon game sucks up until the point where the people who grew up with it become old enough to enter the discourse, when suddenly it's always been amazing.

Even gen 1. "It's just a passing fad."

 

[ant4456]

Even gen 1. "It's just a passing fad."

I mean I agree with this, I've even said something similar in the past. It's just also something I account for because well, it does matter to public reception.

My experience with Pokemon/nostalgia is that I grew up on Gen 5 and then played 4 a bit after, and in general I did enjoy them at the time. But I remember being upset that I couldn't catch Pikachu even when I think some ad shows the player having Pikachu around Castelia City or something. I love B2W2 but find BW to be not the best in the series, if I'm honest. But I've always been aggressively against riding my own nostalgia in ways that some would find to be bad (I literally will not allow myself to value something higher because I played it as a kid).

Personally I read these cycles for around 10 years. The kids when Gen 1 came out were young adults when Gen 5 came out. The kids when Gen 5 came out are young adults now. It's something I don't really like because it means that everything seems to be in flux, but consistency is just never gonna happen I suppose, and maybe that's a good thing.

 

[Samtendo09]

Having nostalgia to something mid by itself isn’t a bad thing, and more power to those who genuinely enjoys the game, comic, movie or what else they grew up with. It’s only when they started to defend both the good and bad thing about the stuff they grow up with that it becomes a severe issue as it comes off as insecure and disingenuous, and it can turn into a vicious cycle within a fandom with a vicious debate of which generation is the best one, to the point some fans called the current the worst one yet only to swiftly change their mind, and vice versa.

I have yet to see a fandom that were a bigger culprit than Pokémon, even beyond the game side of the community. I do not think not even the Sonic fandom, Dragon Ball fandom, FNAF fandom or other noteworthy fandoms were even close about it. While Kanto is pretty much “patient zero” regarding several Kanto fans, it is safe to say that many Gen 2-7 fans are also victim to their own fallacies even before the whole Dexit situation, and something tells me it might also happen to many Gen 8 + 9 fans as well.