it seems good
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
poor scizor
I love how you named him robert. Thanks! I wanted to give this a run.
Could I put tera steel?
Yeah. Just be mindful because Kyurem runs Ground coverage, and you get easily revenge killed by basically any physical attacker. Ideally though you don't want to Tera too often because Water is a fine defensive typing as long as you have a secondary check to Kyurem like Iron Crown/Scizor, and an Electric immunity as most teams should anyways.
It used to be so much better pre-DLC but Kyurem is a bitch. I guess the same could be said about most sp. defensive mons.
And yeah, robert is a great name. I set gender to random so every few matches people get confused because robert is sometimes a gal and for whatever reason some players' brains melt over it lol
thanks
hopefully either kyurem or darkrai (or both) are the next on the chopping block. both are stupid
My guess is either Kyurem or Waterpon, like I said I know darkrai has support but I don't think it has enough
Kyurem and Waterpon have been contentious for longer, we are at the point where waterpon definitely has to go
I dont think they are that bad. If tera didnt exist both would be even more manageable.
currently Im having the most issues playing around Gholdengo. It feels impossible to play a balance team without like 2-3 checks for it. Then you need the same amount of answers for Kingambit and the threat overload really begins to show itself. Then stuff that should stop it cold, doesnt because it can tera into whatever it wants. Cant status it, skirts around on balloon. Just a very frustrating pokemon to deal with. Not even getting into the spinnlocking utility
Darkrai definitely would be more managable, but Kyurem without tera I feel as if it would actually would be more overbearing because you can't just defensively tera and hope it clicks the move you resist and can take, at least with darkrai it still has the same problem of being frail and needing to find openings to click nasty plot that aren't always given to it even in the tera meta which darkrai is frail enough to where doing so is easier said than done
Iron Valiant
Still waiting for Espeon to get aura sphere, I know it wouldn't even be ou with it but that would be massive for it in the lower tiers if it got fighting coverage of any form, especially aura sphere
sans Tera Slowking + EP switch in handles it and isnt a really crippling shell either.
the ability to Ice tera blows that up that though. Some are even using blizzard now too so yea not that many answers tbh.
Its too many threats to competently build unless you cheesing, but thats just me. Big reason why 90% is some rendition of HO
Both Kyurem and Wellspring are far worse for Balance to deal with. Gholdengo is annoying, but there are many viable Dark types for balance that can help check it. You don't need 2-3 checks for it. Its checks are far less specific than either of the former two.
what dark type is switching in on it, samurott isnt doing that more than once or twice, darkrai melts to steel move, and ting lu is just too passive atm.
then it can just tera fairy anyway which isnt some huge opportunity cost for most teams. Hell it can run focus blast if it wants anyway and fish for the switch in which once again isnt some huge issue with it considering how many free turns it gets against shit
Well, kingambit is a really, and I mean really, good switch in to ghold. And if ghold is running focus blast it means it has to drop one of recover (making it more suspectable to chip) or np, which means its damage is less powerful. Focus blast isn't even listed in the 1825 stats at all, so it isn't even common at all in high ladder. Samurott gets up a spike or a knock, so its doing something with it (and it can switch in more than once, it has a chance to live 2 make it rains), darkrai can even take one make it rain from full if needed and ting lu isn't really that passive if you invest in a bit more attack or use something like payback or stone edge. Even if you do decide to stick with the normal set, whirlwind+ruination doesn't make ting lu that passive.
Also, tera fairy is a big deal for ghold to be doing. Tera'ing is always a big deal for a mon and ghold doesn't bowl over teams instantely due to stuff that normally would run away in fear of it like glowking are now able to hit it for big damage. Also, if ghold is getting many free turns against things, that means your team may have issues with other mons. Slotting a ground or dark type is easy, due to how good they are in general (air balloon helps ghold but most ground types besides clod or only e-quake ting lu can hit it). Many other mons that don't have supereffective stabs against it like zama or deo-s can hit it for big damage.
Ghold is a great mon, but it isn't close to the power of waterpon or kyurem.
Ironically I almost never have a issue with Waterpon. I find it wayyyy easier to deal with regardless of whatever style Im playing into it.
Waterpon will be so much easier to deal with in future gens once we have either Ferrothorn or Tangrowth back.
One of the underrated problems that OU is dealing with is the lack of a physically defensive grass that splashes well onto balance teams. Brute Bonnet is so close, except Fighting type attacks are everywhere, which ruins otherwise excellent mixed bulk.
One of the underrated problems that OU is dealing with is the lack of a physically defensive grass that splashes well onto balance teams. Brute Bonnet is so close, except Fighting type attacks are everywhere, which ruins otherwise excellent mixed bulk.
wouldnt amoongus work in this situation?
sinistcha is a really solid mon, not the perfect waterpon answer (knock off) but ferrothorn wouldnt be either cause of superpower(max hp max defense impish ferro takes 100% minimum from +2 superpower) plus it just generally cant do too much back to oger besides a roll for pw to 2hko.
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Amoonguss is pretty passive, well know that it doesn't get spore at least. Amoonguss is one of the best waterpon counters and it can find success, but apart from that niche its an overall meh mon. It does wall some things but it can't do much in return besides maybe getting some chip with giga drain and statusing them with stun spore.
Even bulkless Sam is able to take MIR a couple times, and the ones running some bulk more. Plus that's only offensive Ghold. Defensive Ghold (more common nowadays) does even less to Sam. Assault Vest Samurott shrugs off its hits and spams hazards (which btw is the biggest benefit of this interaction). Darkrai can still pivot in once to MIR, and easily soaks Shadow Balls. Ting-Lu of course cares little for it period (and err... it's doing fine I don't know what you're talking about, it's as annoying as ever). Kingambit also lols on it without fighing coverage. Even past that, stuff like Moltres is able to take its hits well and chase it out, Alomomola can even pivot in and then slow pivot out to bring in an offensive check, easily eating shadow ball. Tera Water Garg dumpsters non cloak Gholdengo, Cinderace is a good offensive check, Heatran is more niche but gets the job done especially against Ghold.
I'll be honest I hate the whole "but it can just tera" argument when discussion mons like Ghold or Raging Bolt. These teras are NOT without sizable give and take. Ghold terastilizing means it no longer checks the fairies it gets put on a team to check, also becoming vulnerable to Glowking Sludge Bombs (and possible poison). Focus Blast Ghold can be run but it's much more inconsistent on average due to the poor accuracy and having to give up either stab (it wants NP+Recover to truly be so strong into Balance). It also doesn't get AS many free turns as it used to because there's a lot more in the tier that threatens it.
Ghold is a good pokemon, great even, but it's not even at the peak of its power like it was early in the gen where it was much tougher to handle.
And just what kind of mons are you running to deal with it? It's notorious for a reason.
Amoonguss is rather passive without Spore. Toxic and Stun Spore mean that it's not setup fodder by any means, but as much as Grass/Poison is outstanding defensively, it's also a terrible STAB combo, made worse by low attacking stats.
Amoonguss comes in to wall a threat, spreads status to the switch in, and switches out. That's a useful defensive pokemon, but it doesn't threaten much after the status move and lacks any way to make progress, so it's tricky to fit onto a balance team. Compare this to Ferrothorn, who has multiple entry hazards, Knock Off, and Leech Seed, along with being a stronger attacker, making it offer a lot more to a balance team.
Amoonguss is good, just annoying to slot onto a team. There is the issue of overlap with Gking + not providing nearly as much as gking in-terms of utility. Like many defensive poison typing this generation, losing to Gking is also a very bad quality since there is little stopping Gking from just switching in every time, clicking Chilly, and getting free momentum + health any time amoonguss switches in. Amoonguss does have stun spore I suppose, but it is still an annoying trait that you are effectively forced to double every time in order to not lose momentum. Its poor match-ups against Ghold and Gliscor also do it no favors though it can tangibly make progress against those in some cases with Stomping Tantrum against Ghold or Foul Play vs SD Gliscor. Amoonguss itself doesn't have alot of the utility tools that's you'd want like Knock Off, pivoting, Spikes, Wish, etc. That being said, the main flaw really is just losing to Gking. Toxapex is in a similar bind, suffering from Gking's immense success & being unable to make progress against it.
Fighting Tera Blast :p