OMs that only restrict teambuilding are not accepted on principle
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Project Metagame Workshop
- Thread starter KaenSoul
- Start date
Formats that are playable on cart fall under UM instead of OM, there is no clear way to get a new UM approved, but you should look at the section anyway: https://www.smogon.com/forums/forums/unofficial-metagames.851/
Try asking Isaiah what they think as they lead the section, but don't think they are actively looking for formats, the most recent one Ubers UU become a thing because it already had a community before being adopted by smogon.
Short answer is that it would need to have a decent following to be accepted as a UM--metagames aren't adopted from scratch.
Thank you, I understand. However, I find it a bit counterintuitive that a meta that requires less changes (or even none) has to go through a more strict process to even be considered. The first conclusion that comes to my mind now is that I should force a change in the mechanics that is not replicable in handheld so it can be proposed here and gets more visibility, even though that would ruin its simplicity.
I don't mean to come here to propose to rebuild a system that has worked fine for years, but it is very apparent that OMs get more attention than UMs, even things like double users in the chat lobbies, or the position in the meta selection being more visible for OMs. I believe these should be together and follow a similar process, to avoid people looking to overcomplicate their UM ideas so they enjoy the benefits of OMs
Well, that doesn't really have much to do with this thread, you can try to discuss it in private with the UM leaders to see what they think and what their plans are for the section. UM only recently become its own thing (it was its own thing before, but then it become a subsection of OM and now is on its own again) and the ps room is also just as recent.
Also, UM are much closer to becoming official formats compared to OMs, like Monotype, and all UM get permanent ladders (as long as they stay popular enough to not lose them), meanwhile over half of the OMs share the OM of the month ladder, where even the popular formats have to stay mostly ignored for most of the year. Is easier to approve OMs because they have less strict rules and more is expected from new UMs.
All-Weathermons (V2)All-Weathermons
(Other suggestions for the metaname are welcome)
(First of all, my apologies for my poor English)
Premise: Every match is played with a randomized and permanent weather, field and dimension.
Weather conditions: Rain, Sun, Sand and Snow
Terrain conditions: Grassy Terrain, Electric Terrain, Psychic Terrain and Misty Terrain
Dimension conditions: Trick Room, Wonder Room, Magic Room and Gravity
This makes for a total of 64 possible combinations of field conditions (from now on used as a collective term for weather, terrain and/or dimension).
The randomized field conditions will be shown before each player sends out their lead mon.
Example:
In most metagames, field conditions are a core component of team building. Some teams even revolve around one, and in rare cases more, field conditions. In Gen 9 OU, when building a team that doesn't need a field condition to function, one still might want to build their team so they are able to still win versus Rain, Sun, Grassy Terrain or Psychic Terrain. What if we were to take this to the extreme: a metagame where one is required to build a team able to handle all field conditions.
A few specific examples:
Walking Wake doesn't mind Snow and doesn't enjoy Sand, but oh boy does it love both Rain and Sun. This means that in close to half of all games, where either Rain of Sun is active, Walking Wake will have a good time blasting through the opposition.
Raging Bolt loves Grassy (recovery and EQ nerf) and Electric Terrain (nuke electric attacks) a lot as terrain. However, it hates Psychic Terrain completely nullifying its beloved priority Thunderclap, making one move slot effectively useless. And while Misty Terrain blocks status, it also cuts the power of Raging Bolt's Dragon-type moves in half, leaving it as a mostly mono Electric-type attacker.
I don't think I will have to elaborate much on the inevitable clashes between past and future paradox mons that await in this metagame with the possibility of unlimited Sun and Electric Terrain.
Ah yes, the good old Gen 2 walls. Without field conditions, they will still function fine. But what happens if the dimension Wonder Room is active? Suddenly Skarmory becomes the special wall, while Blissey becomes the physical wall. What happens if Trick Room is active? Now Skarmory and Blissey are more likely to outpace their opponents and take the initiative in battle. And what happens if Magic Room is active? Unfortunately, now Skarmory will have to miss out on its trusty Rocky Helmet or Leftovers, while Blissey will have to enter the field without its Heavy-Duty Boots. Finally some opportunities to use those close to unused 'Wonder Room', 'Magic Room' and 'Gravity' buttons in the Damage Calc.
Speaking of Magic Room making Heavy-Duty Boots obsolete: do you dare bring Volcarona on your team in the 1 in 4 chance it will have to face the pre-Gen 8 PTSD of no boots? And would you still blindly slap that Booster Energy on your Iron Moth and call it a day, ignoring the off chance where Magic Room prevents Booster Energy from activating?
One final example, which is one of my favorites since I'm a sucker for Trick Room. In the 1 in 4 chance that Trick Room will be active while you are using your bulky balance team, your opponent will be in for a baaad time. Not to mention if conditions like Sand, Grassy Terrain or Psychic Terrain are active. You just have to hope that Misty Terrain won't be active at the same time and thus blocking Ursaluna's Flame or Toxic Orb.
Even though these are just a few example, the implications of field conditions can have serious consequences for a mon's viability.
Bans:
Pokémon
At this point, I find it too hard to say what mons will be broken. Yes, Walking Wake will be very good in about half of the games where either Sun or Rain is active, just like Iron Bundle with Rain or Snow and/or Electric Terrain, but Trick Room and Magic Room can put a serious dent in those threats. To do a quick and easy calculation with Walking Wake: either Sun or Rain will be active 50% of the time. However, either Trick Room or Magic Room will also be active 50% of the time. This means that in 'only' 25% of the time Walking Wake has a clear opportunity to succeed in unlimited Sun and Rain. While Wake is undoubtedly strong is these instances, I do not think it is as big of a hitter in the other 50% where neither Sun/Rain nor Trick/Magic Room is active, and especially in the 25% where Sun/Rain are not active while Trick/Magic Room are active. This example goes for more big hitters, but I expect only time will tell.
Abilities
All weather-setting abilities: Drizzle, Drought, Sand Stream and Snow Warning
All terrain-setting abilities: Grassy Surge, Electric Surge, Psychic Surge and Misty Surge
(F for no dimension setting abilities lol)
If it is possible to modify these abilities to not affect the permanent field conditions, these bans would not be needed. In addition, a pop-up could be given if a player searches for a match with a team that has a mon with a weather-setting ability (same pop-up when using banned mons/moves).
Moves
All weather-setting moves: Rain Dance, Sunny Day, Sandstorm, Snowscape and Chilly Reception
All terrain-setting moves: Grassy Terrain, Electric Terrain, Psychic Terrain and Misty Terrain
All dimension-setting moves: Trick Room, Wonder Room, Magic Room and Gravity
If it is possible to modify these moves to not affect the permanent field conditions, these bans would not be needed. In addition, a pop-up could be given if a player searches for a match with a team that has a mon with a weather-setting ability (same pop-up when using banned mons/moves).
Steelroller - as it becomes a free 130 BP Steel-type move when any terrain is active.
Ice Spinner - as it clears the field of terrain. This is not needed if the secondary effect of Ice Spinner can be nullified with mods.
Other:
The field effects have to be active on turn 0. This is mostly important for Booster Energy users, as when Magic Room only becomes active after the lead mons are send out, Booster Energy can still activate and will not be nullified even after Magic Room goes up.
Final:
One variant I already came up with, is adding the possibility of having no weather, terrain and/or dimension. As weather, terrain and dimension then have 5 possible 'states' that can be chosen randomly, the total number of combinations increases to 125. This means that there is a 1 in 125 possibility that no field conditions will be active, and a 12 in 125 possibility that only one field condition is active.
Another variant is making it so only two of three field conditions will be chosen at random, while the third one will be ignored, reducing the randomness and thus less erratic. For example, having Rain and Trick Room active and therefore no terrain, or having Electric Terrain and Wonder Room active and therefore no weather.
I have always found field conditions a cool addition to Pokémon all the way back in Gen 3 with weather, and later terrain and dimension. However, even though Rain and Sun see a lot of use these days, I feel that other field conditions have been undervalued and underexplored. I have a soft spot for the dimensions Magic Room and Wonder Room as they effectively never see use in competitive play. I would love to make this metagame a reality to see what interesting teams every comes up with. Though I also very much want to stimulate people experimenting with the field conditions.
I am aware that this metagame does involve some RNG. However, I would say every team is still able to function regardless of the field conditions. If one decides to build a team fully are Rain: yes, they'll likely demolish a lot of non-rain teams, but on the other hand will get equally demolished in instances where rain isn't active. But who knows, maybe someone will be able to craft a team that will weather all...
I am very curious about your opinions on this OM. I am also very interested in hearing suggestions to improve, or even ideas you came up with to use in this metagame!
(Other suggestions for the metaname are welcome)
(First of all, my apologies for my poor English)
Intro: Two weeks ago I did a suggestion for a metagame After some brainstorming with some of you guys, including the idea of removing the RNG in the previously metagame as a key element, I decided to revisit the idea.
Premise: Every match is played with rotating weather, field and dimension ('room') conditions which are predetermined in their sequence and duration.
Explanation:
The weather conditions will rotate in the following order: Sand > Snow > Rain > Sun > Strong Winds.
The terrain conditions will rotate in the following order: Grassy Terrain > Psychic Terrain > Rainbow > Electric Terrain > Misty Terrain > Sea of Fire.
The dimension conditions will rotate in the following order: Wonder Room > Trick Room > Magic Room > Gravity.
Every condition with be active for 3 turns.
The weather conditions will start on turn 0 (and thus rotate at the end of turns 3, 6, 9, ... [0 + 3n]).
The field conditions will start at the end of turn 1 (and thus rotate at the end of turns 4, 7, 10, ... [1 + 3n]).
The dimension conditions will start at the end of turn 2 (and thus rotate at the end of turns 5, 8, 11, ... [2 + 3n]).
This means that on turn 3 the active conditions are Sand, Wonder Room and Grassy Terrain are active, while on turn 11 Sun, Magic Room and Electric Terrain are active.
This way every turn will have a unique combination of conditions that will only start repeating itself after 182 turns.
Example:
As the metaname suggests, this meta largely promotes the use of mons that are able to function well in a lot, if not all, of the field conditions. One could to this by making a balance for each mon on how they function in every field condition:
(+) Strong Winds, Rain
(-) Sand, Sun, Grassy Terrain, Electric Terrain, Psychic Terrain, Misty Terrain, Sea of Fire, Magic Room, Trick Room, Gravity
(+) Sun, Sand, Grassy Terrain, Sea of Fire, Trick Room, Gravity
(-) Rain, Magic Room
(+) Sand, Grassy Terrain, Psychic Terrain, Trick Room, Gravity, Wonder Room
(-) Rain, Misty Terrain, Sea of Fire, Magic Room
(+) Snow, Grassy Terrain, Psychic Terrain, Rainbow, Gravity
(-) Sand, Strong Winds, Sea of Fire, Misty Terrain, Magic Room, Trick Room
(+) Sun, Grassy Terrain, Psychic Terrain, Electric Terrain, Misty Terrain, Rainbow, Sea of Fire, Gravity
(-) Rain, Sand, Magic Room, Trick Room, Wonder Room
It is important to see all three field conditions as separate. For example, Heatran functions well during basically every field condition, so using one will rarely feel like a detriment. When we look at Iron Moth, it looks to be pretty balanced and slightly leans towards having more benefits from the field conditions since it loves six out of six terrain conditions. However, it's very important to note here that Iron Moth hates three out of four dimension conditions. Think makes for a interesting dynamic. Of course there are a lot more mons to explore, but I would love to see you guys come up with ideas for the best all-weathermons.
Questions:
Q1 - A variation to this idea, which I would seriously consider, would be to let all conditions start on turn 0, which means that Sand, Grassy Terrain and Wonder Room would be active from turns 1 to 3, followed by Snow, Psychic Terrain and Trick Room from turns 4 to 6. This does make the rotating conditions easier to manage, but (in my opinion) Which variation do you think is better and why?
Q2 - Ignoring the RNG aspect for a second: what if only the starting conditions were randomized, after which they would follow their pre-set sequence and duration. Do you think this adds to the metagame since it forces timing in making plays, or would you prefer everything to be pre-determined to encourage more pre-game strategizing, and why?
Q3a - Do you think that these pre-set sequences of every condition are logical and don't encourage any overpowered overseen strategies?
Q3b - Do you think that the pre-set duration of 3 turns for every condition are impactful enough while not overstaying their welcome?
Q4 - Primordial Sea, Desolate Land, Swamp and Tailwind (and technically Mud Sport and Water Sport) are the only field conditions that are not included in this metagame. What do you think about that?
Bans:
Pokémon
At this point, I find it too hard to say what mons will be broken.
Abilities
All weather-setting abilities: Drizzle, Drought, Sand Stream, Snow Warning and Deltra Stream
All terrain-setting abilities: Grassy Surge, Electric Surge, Psychic Surge and Misty Surge
(F for no dimension setting abilities lol)
If it is possible to modify these abilities to not affect the permanent field conditions, these bans would not be needed. In addition, a pop-up could be given if a player searches for a match with a team that has a mon with a weather-setting ability (same pop-up when using banned mons/moves).
Moves
All weather-setting moves: Rain Dance, Sunny Day, Sandstorm, Snowscape and Chilly Reception
All terrain-setting moves: Grassy Terrain, Electric Terrain, Psychic Terrain and Misty Terrain
All dimension-setting moves: Trick Room, Wonder Room, Magic Room and Gravity
If it is possible to modify these moves to not affect the permanent field conditions, these bans would not be needed. In addition, a pop-up could be given if a player searches for a match with a team that has a mon with a weather-setting ability (same pop-up when using banned mons/moves).
Steelroller - as it becomes a free 130 BP Steel-type move when any terrain is active.
Ice Spinner - as it clears the field of terrain. This is not needed if the secondary effect of Ice Spinner can be nullified with mods.
Other:
I am unaware whether some of these ideas would be impossible to implement in the simulator, so I would love to hear if there are such limitations.
Final:
As stated in my previous suggestion, I've always found field conditions an insanely unique mechanic added in mons. However, Rain and Sun have been the strongest conditions ever since their introduction. With this metagame, I hope to inspire people to make interesting teams that can function under the more obscure conditions of Magic Room, Wonder Room and Gravity, or even Misty Terrain and Rainbow.
I am once again very curious about your opinions on this OM. I am also very interested in hearing suggestions to improve, or even ideas you came up with to use in this metagame!
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Switchmons
Premise: Just like in the game, after a trainer loses a pokemon, the pokemon they plan to switch in will be alerted to their opponent, and their opponent will get a chance to switch in a different pokemon on the same turn.
Buffs: Bulky hazard setters, such as Landorus-T, will probably see a rise in usage, as switching becomes more common. Bulk in general will become more valuable, as a KO leads to a lot of lost momentum.
Nerfs:Revenge Killers, such as Dragapult, will be less useful, for obvious reasons.
Questions:Will Stall see a rise in usage? What about Trick Room?
Premise: Just like in the game, after a trainer loses a pokemon, the pokemon they plan to switch in will be alerted to their opponent, and their opponent will get a chance to switch in a different pokemon on the same turn.
Buffs: Bulky hazard setters, such as Landorus-T, will probably see a rise in usage, as switching becomes more common. Bulk in general will become more valuable, as a KO leads to a lot of lost momentum.
Nerfs:Revenge Killers, such as Dragapult, will be less useful, for obvious reasons.
Questions:Will Stall see a rise in usage? What about Trick Room?
Terastal-Boost or Tera-Boost (hadn't fully figured out what would be better)
premise: Your stats are multiplied/divided depending on your Tera type
Potential Bans:
basically every legendary
Questions:
Would it be better if your stats were multiplied by:
1. dividing your BST by the average BST of your tera type (or the other way around depending if one is larger than the other) then multiply that result to your stats
2. Dividing each one of your stats by each one of the average stat of your tera type then multiplied by that stat
3. another way that i'm not thinking of
premise: Your stats are multiplied/divided depending on your Tera type
Potential Bans:
basically every legendary
Questions:
Would it be better if your stats were multiplied by:
1. dividing your BST by the average BST of your tera type (or the other way around depending if one is larger than the other) then multiply that result to your stats
2. Dividing each one of your stats by each one of the average stat of your tera type then multiplied by that stat
3. another way that i'm not thinking of
Scaled Hackmons!
Metagame premise: This format would be using scalemons scaled stats along with hackmons unlimited possibilities, increasing the overall viability of every Pokémon.
Potential bans and threats: Sure-hit bans would be Wonder Guard, due to how it would turn the meta into type combination selection and ignoring abilities only. Neutralizing Gas, given how easily it would dominate with knock off (really big deal, considering how present eviolite would be on a lot of mons). Huge Power and Pure Power, there are mons with 200 base atk, clearly doubling their already overwhelming stat is not needed.
Common threats would be Pokémon with good stats distribution, such as Abra, Gastly, Darumaka, essentially any mon that reaches 150 speed and offensive stat while scaled, becomes an extremely scary sweeper. On the other hand, eviolite-mons would give these mons a big wall to stumble upon, the best example is probably Munchlax, starring huge hp and spd. (reminder that you can use the command /scale [mon] on showdown to see scaled stats)
Questions for the community: How should I address too good stat distributions? Would you limit their items and/or abilities? What about their moves? What about mons with middling distributions? How would you work on a mon with 100 in every stat? Let me know!
Metagame premise: This format would be using scalemons scaled stats along with hackmons unlimited possibilities, increasing the overall viability of every Pokémon.
Potential bans and threats: Sure-hit bans would be Wonder Guard, due to how it would turn the meta into type combination selection and ignoring abilities only. Neutralizing Gas, given how easily it would dominate with knock off (really big deal, considering how present eviolite would be on a lot of mons). Huge Power and Pure Power, there are mons with 200 base atk, clearly doubling their already overwhelming stat is not needed.
Common threats would be Pokémon with good stats distribution, such as Abra, Gastly, Darumaka, essentially any mon that reaches 150 speed and offensive stat while scaled, becomes an extremely scary sweeper. On the other hand, eviolite-mons would give these mons a big wall to stumble upon, the best example is probably Munchlax, starring huge hp and spd. (reminder that you can use the command /scale [mon] on showdown to see scaled stats)
Questions for the community: How should I address too good stat distributions? Would you limit their items and/or abilities? What about their moves? What about mons with middling distributions? How would you work on a mon with 100 in every stat? Let me know!
Would there be terastal clause? If so why wouldn't you just (example for each variant)...
Use Tera Bug since it has the lowest average BST of all pokemon, giving most pokemon a 1.5 to 1.8x boost to their stats. Who needs tera if you are playing with essentially Huge Power?
Use Tera Bug since is has the lowest average BST in basically every stat other than special defense, giving a pokemon a free band/scarf that doesn't restrict moves?
yeah idk man.
This is an OMM, go to the OMM thread.
I would appreciate if you could redirect me, I'm very new to forums in general, thank you in advance
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/om-mashup-megathread.3711916/page-7 this is the om mashup mega thread.
This metagame seems to be a petmod, since the specific weather, terrain, and dimension order seem to be set subjectively, rather than objectively. Furthermore, if old weather effects are allowed, why does this idea use Misty Terrain and not Fog, as well as Snow and not Hail?
Since the condition order is the same every single time, most team structures will be very similar to take advantage of the conditions, which is repetitive. Randomizing the condition order makes idea more luck-based, which is not fun.
I guess it sounds better now, but I would remove any non-standard terrain, as Rainbow and Sea of Fire are just not really the same category of move, they are closer to other one-off effects like Mud Sport, may also remove Strong Winds, so all 3 variables have 4 effects each. Mostly to keep things simple, there is already enough stuff to deal with.All-Weathermons (V2)
(Other suggestions for the metaname are welcome)
(First of all, my apologies for my poor English)
Intro: Two weeks ago I did a suggestion for a metagame After some brainstorming with some of you guys, including the idea of removing the RNG in the previously metagame as a key element, I decided to revisit the idea.
Premise: Every match is played with rotating weather, field and dimension ('room') conditions which are predetermined in their sequence and duration.
Explanation:
The weather conditions will rotate in the following order: Sand > Snow > Rain > Sun > Strong Winds.
The terrain conditions will rotate in the following order: Grassy Terrain > Psychic Terrain > Rainbow > Electric Terrain > Misty Terrain > Sea of Fire.
The dimension conditions will rotate in the following order: Wonder Room > Trick Room > Magic Room > Gravity.
Every condition with be active for 3 turns.
The weather conditions will start on turn 0 (and thus rotate at the end of turns 3, 6, 9, ... [0 + 3n]).
The field conditions will start at the end of turn 1 (and thus rotate at the end of turns 4, 7, 10, ... [1 + 3n]).
The dimension conditions will start at the end of turn 2 (and thus rotate at the end of turns 5, 8, 11, ... [2 + 3n]).
This means that on turn 3 the active conditions are Sand, Wonder Room and Grassy Terrain are active, while on turn 11 Sun, Magic Room and Electric Terrain are active.
This way every turn will have a unique combination of conditions that will only start repeating itself after 182 turns.
Example:
As the metaname suggests, this meta largely promotes the use of mons that are able to function well in a lot, if not all, of the field conditions. One could to this by making a balance for each mon on how they function in every field condition:
(+) Strong Winds, Rain
(-) Sand, Sun, Grassy Terrain, Electric Terrain, Psychic Terrain, Misty Terrain, Sea of Fire, Magic Room, Trick Room, Gravity
(+) Sun, Sand, Grassy Terrain, Sea of Fire, Trick Room, Gravity
(-) Rain, Magic Room
(+) Sand, Grassy Terrain, Psychic Terrain, Trick Room, Gravity, Wonder Room
(-) Rain, Misty Terrain, Sea of Fire, Magic Room
(+) Snow, Grassy Terrain, Psychic Terrain, Rainbow, Gravity
(-) Sand, Strong Winds, Sea of Fire, Misty Terrain, Magic Room, Trick Room
(+) Sun, Grassy Terrain, Psychic Terrain, Electric Terrain, Misty Terrain, Rainbow, Sea of Fire, Gravity
(-) Rain, Sand, Magic Room, Trick Room, Wonder Room
It is important to see all three field conditions as separate. For example, Heatran functions well during basically every field condition, so using one will rarely feel like a detriment. When we look at Iron Moth, it looks to be pretty balanced and slightly leans towards having more benefits from the field conditions since it loves six out of six terrain conditions. However, it's very important to note here that Iron Moth hates three out of four dimension conditions. Think makes for a interesting dynamic. Of course there are a lot more mons to explore, but I would love to see you guys come up with ideas for the best all-weathermons.
Questions:
Q1 - A variation to this idea, which I would seriously consider, would be to let all conditions start on turn 0, which means that Sand, Grassy Terrain and Wonder Room would be active from turns 1 to 3, followed by Snow, Psychic Terrain and Trick Room from turns 4 to 6. This does make the rotating conditions easier to manage, but (in my opinion) Which variation do you think is better and why?
Q2 - Ignoring the RNG aspect for a second: what if only the starting conditions were randomized, after which they would follow their pre-set sequence and duration. Do you think this adds to the metagame since it forces timing in making plays, or would you prefer everything to be pre-determined to encourage more pre-game strategizing, and why?
Q3a - Do you think that these pre-set sequences of every condition are logical and don't encourage any overpowered overseen strategies?
Q3b - Do you think that the pre-set duration of 3 turns for every condition are impactful enough while not overstaying their welcome?
Q4 - Primordial Sea, Desolate Land, Swamp and Tailwind (and technically Mud Sport and Water Sport) are the only field conditions that are not included in this metagame. What do you think about that?
Bans:
Pokémon
At this point, I find it too hard to say what mons will be broken.
Abilities
All weather-setting abilities: Drizzle, Drought, Sand Stream, Snow Warning and Deltra Stream
All terrain-setting abilities: Grassy Surge, Electric Surge, Psychic Surge and Misty Surge
(F for no dimension setting abilities lol)
If it is possible to modify these abilities to not affect the permanent field conditions, these bans would not be needed. In addition, a pop-up could be given if a player searches for a match with a team that has a mon with a weather-setting ability (same pop-up when using banned mons/moves).
Moves
All weather-setting moves: Rain Dance, Sunny Day, Sandstorm, Snowscape and Chilly Reception
All terrain-setting moves: Grassy Terrain, Electric Terrain, Psychic Terrain and Misty Terrain
All dimension-setting moves: Trick Room, Wonder Room, Magic Room and Gravity
If it is possible to modify these moves to not affect the permanent field conditions, these bans would not be needed. In addition, a pop-up could be given if a player searches for a match with a team that has a mon with a weather-setting ability (same pop-up when using banned mons/moves).
Steelroller - as it becomes a free 130 BP Steel-type move when any terrain is active.
Ice Spinner - as it clears the field of terrain. This is not needed if the secondary effect of Ice Spinner can be nullified with mods.
Other:
I am unaware whether some of these ideas would be impossible to implement in the simulator, so I would love to hear if there are such limitations.
Final:
As stated in my previous suggestion, I've always found field conditions an insanely unique mechanic added in mons. However, Rain and Sun have been the strongest conditions ever since their introduction. With this metagame, I hope to inspire people to make interesting teams that can function under the more obscure conditions of Magic Room, Wonder Room and Gravity, or even Misty Terrain and Rainbow.
I am once again very curious about your opinions on this OM. I am also very interested in hearing suggestions to improve, or even ideas you came up with to use in this metagame!
Also do not use RNG.
This feels like is not going to be interesting enough, there is not much room to theorymon as it doesn't need its own sets, is just enabling easy mode in a standard game, while it would impact strategies it doesn't do it a way that would get people thinking in a much different way than what they usually do.
I would like to go deeper on this because it removes a fundamental comeback mechanic.
Fainting sucks, you lose that Pokemon and a pillar of the team. However, the one upside is that you get a free switch into any Pokemon. This means that you don't have to worry about what your opponent does, and you don't have to give up using a move to get a Pokemon in.
This creates a dynamic back-and-forth gameplay, because sometimes the ability to control the field is worth being one Pokemon down. If the opposing Pokemon is ill-suited to take on the Pokemon you send in, then you can take advantage of that. This allows intentional sacrifices instead of requiring a Pokemon to tank everything. It also prevents the opponent from being too careless about which Pokemon they keep in, or else a dangerous setup sweeper can wreak havoc.
The single-player mechanic isn't in PvP for a reason: it flips the dynamic on the head, so now the player who KO'd has the advantage. This turns it from a comeback mechanic into a win-more mechanic. Against Offense, you would never be able to revenge kill because they can switch into a better Pokemon to handle a priority attack, or can outspeed and threaten your new mon. Against Stall, there's no opportunity to take advantage of a poor defensive answer to your Pokemon, because they can just switch to the new Pokemon's answer. Once you lose a Pokemon, you continue to be on the backfoot by continuing with another poor matchup.
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Thanks for the feedback.
The only drawback I see in having 4 conditions of each, is that a game will have repeating combinations of conditions, and if they are not randomized, some combinations will never happen in any kind of game. For example, if your rotations are Rain > Sun > Sand > Snow // Grassy > Electric > Psychic > Misty // Gravity > Trick > Magic > Wonder, Rain will never be active at the same time as Psychic Terrain or Magic Room. This is provided that every field condition rotates after 3 turns.
Do you have a suggestion on how to fix this?
I don't think it is something to really worry about, there is enough variation already and turn count shouldn't really ever go that high anyway, this doesn't sound like a format for slow playstyles, so most games should be over before all the combinations appear, either way not that big of a deal.
Here comes nothing, or more precisely, something -
Empty But Whole [EBW]
Premise :
A Pokémon transforms its missing moves into recoils the target will receive when attacking back.
Rules :
This mechanic is designed for 6v6 Single battles. Basically, missing moves become unavoidable side effects for any target that strike back. In addition :
- Statut moves transfer their effects as recoils, while offensive moves only damages ;
- Recoil damages are equal to those of the intended attack => base power, boosts (both sides) and STAB are taken into account ;
- Recoils ignore types effectiveness and opponents' abilities ;
- Recoils are conserved as long as the Pokemon which missed the move is unharmed ;
- If a move misses right after another did, the recoil of the first is then replaced by the second's ;
- Multi-hit moves give only one hit as recoils ;
- The list of moves non eligible for recoils is as followed :
- Moves engaging recoils are :
- There're no restrictions as to how many Pokémon can inflict recoils, hence a whole team can benefit from it.
Examples :
Clauses :
Endless Battle Clause ;
Evasion Clause ;
HP Clause = HP are displayed in % ;
OHKO Clause ;
Sleep Clause = sleep moves are banned ;
Species Clause ;
Bans :
Watchlist :
Increased Viability :
Porygon-Z becomes a much bigger threat, whether as a setup sweeper or Choice Scarf attacker, being provided with powerful moves, coverage in line with its high SpA (Blizzard, Hyper Beam, Thunder, Zap Cannon), abilities and access to Nasty Plot, plus options like Trick or Conversion. Its vulnerability to priority moves or fast opponents is counterbalanced by the help of EBW recoils.
Decreased Viability :
Since EBW recoils ignore abilities, Unaware users should be on the lookout for any setup, and prevent them with moves like Encore, Haze or Taunt, which Dondozo doesn't have. Using only Rest to heal, this Pokémon becomes troubled as much as how many boosts its opponent gets.
Q&A :
Q1: What happens if my Pokémon use Explosion whereas my opponent is immune ?
A1: In case the opponent is Ghost-type, there's no "recoil of the dead" so the user faints and nothing else happens ; in case of Damp, the recoil is stored, and the user won't suicide upon being hit.
Q2: Why not consider moves blocked by Substitute and Protect being EBW recoils ?
A2: Substitute and Protect are frequently used, mostly for temporizing, which would favor setting up EBW recoils in this metagame. This is not included in the rules to avoid unnecessary mindgames.
Q3: How situational moves react as EBW recoils ?
A3: Moves like Avalanche, Facade, Knock Off or Rollout inflict recoil damages based on their initial base power.
Q4: Does Dancer copy dance moves when they're EBW recoils ?
A4: No, it doesn't.
Q5: Would a Pokémon with Imposter/Transform copy target's EBW recoil ?
A5: No, it wouldn't.
Questions for the community :
Should I limit the EBW recoil to the first moveslot ?
Should I illustrate/give examples about how a game would work under these rules ?
Should I add/remove moves in the bans/watchlist/non eligible for recoils ? What about Pokémon and items ?
Resources :
Playability :
Waiting for approval
Council :
TeaThymeLine
Empty But Whole [EBW]
Premise :
A Pokémon transforms its missing moves into recoils the target will receive when attacking back.
Rules :
This mechanic is designed for 6v6 Single battles. Basically, missing moves become unavoidable side effects for any target that strike back. In addition :
- Statut moves transfer their effects as recoils, while offensive moves only damages ;
- Recoil damages are equal to those of the intended attack => base power, boosts (both sides) and STAB are taken into account ;
- Recoils ignore types effectiveness and opponents' abilities ;
- Recoils are conserved as long as the Pokemon which missed the move is unharmed ;
- If a move misses right after another did, the recoil of the first is then replaced by the second's ;
- Multi-hit moves give only one hit as recoils ;
- The list of moves non eligible for recoils is as followed :
Assist
Bide
Copycat
Counter
Crush Grip
Doom Desire
Endeavor
Flail
Final Gambit
Fling
Future Sight
Gyro Ball
Hard Press
Heavy Slam
Metronome
Mirror Coat
Mimic
Psywave
Reversal
Sketch
Transform
Wish
Bide
Copycat
Counter
Crush Grip
Doom Desire
Endeavor
Flail
Final Gambit
Fling
Future Sight
Gyro Ball
Hard Press
Heavy Slam
Metronome
Mirror Coat
Mimic
Psywave
Reversal
Sketch
Transform
Wish
those that didn't land due to a lack of accuracy
-------------------------------------------> the target "hiding" (Dig, Fly, Phantom Force, etc.)
-------------------------------------------> the target's ability
-------------------------------------------> the target's type immunity
-------------------------------------------> the target "hiding" (Dig, Fly, Phantom Force, etc.)
-------------------------------------------> the target's ability
-------------------------------------------> the target's type immunity
Examples :
1)
Tornadus-Therian +2 in SpA uses Hurricane on
Rotom-Heat, the move fails => Hurricane becomes Tornadus-T's EBW recoil ;
2) Rotom hurts Tornadus with Discharge, then receives Hurricane damages (with STAB and +2 SpA boosts) as recoil.
2) Rotom hurts Tornadus with Discharge, then receives Hurricane damages (with STAB and +2 SpA boosts) as recoil.
1) First turn,
Great Tusk uses Rapid Spin (to remove hazards), but the opponent switch to Choice Scarf
Gholdengo which is immune => Rapid Spin becomes Great Tusk's EBW recoil ;
2) Second turn,
Great Tusk switch to Sticky Hold
Gastrodon, making Trick fail => Trick becomes Gholdengo's EBW recoil ;
3) Third turn,
Gholdengo is forced to use Trick and 
Gastrodon attacks with Earth Power, activating Gholdengo's EBW recoil and making the items trade happening ;
4) Fourth turn,Gastrodon switch back to Great Tusk on Gholdengo's Shadow Ball, activating Great Tusk's EBW Recoil, which hurt Gholdengo without removing hazards.
2) Second turn,
Great Tusk switch to Sticky Hold 3) Third turn,
Gholdengo is forced to use Trick and Gastrodon attacks with Earth Power, activating Gholdengo's EBW recoil and making the items trade happening ;4) Fourth turn,
Gastrodon switch back to Great Tusk on Gholdengo's Shadow Ball, activating Great Tusk's EBW Recoil, which hurt Gholdengo without removing hazards.Clauses :
Endless Battle Clause ;
Evasion Clause ;
HP Clause = HP are displayed in % ;
OHKO Clause ;
Sleep Clause = sleep moves are banned ;
Species Clause ;
Bans :
Arena Trap
Moody
Sand Veil
Shadow Tag
Snow Cloack
Speed Boost
Moody
Sand Veil
Shadow Tag
Snow Cloack
Speed Boost
Clear Powder
King's Rock
King's Rock
Baton Pass
Last Respects
Power Trip
Shed Tail
Stored Power
Last Respects
Power Trip
Shed Tail
Stored Power
Arceus (all forms)
Archalugon
Annihilape
Baxcalibur
Calyrex-Ice
Calyrex-Shadow
Chi-Yu
Chien-Pao
Deoxys-Attack
Dialga (both forms)
Espathra
Eternatus
Flutter Mane
Giratina (both forms)
Groudon
Ho-oh
Koraidon
Kyogre
Kyurem-Black
Landorus
Lunala
Magearna
Mewtwo
Miraidon
Necrozma-Dawn-Wings
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane
Palafin (both forms)
Palkia (both forms)
Regieleki
Shaymin-Sky
Spectrier
Ursaluna-Bloodmoon
Urshifu (both forms)
Volcarona
Zacian (both forms)
Zamazenta (both forms)
Zekrom
Archalugon
Annihilape
Baxcalibur
Calyrex-Ice
Calyrex-Shadow
Chi-Yu
Chien-Pao
Deoxys-Attack
Dialga (both forms)
Espathra
Eternatus
Flutter Mane
Giratina (both forms)
Groudon
Ho-oh
Koraidon
Kyogre
Kyurem-Black
Landorus
Lunala
Magearna
Mewtwo
Miraidon
Necrozma-Dawn-Wings
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane
Palafin (both forms)
Palkia (both forms)
Regieleki
Shaymin-Sky
Spectrier
Ursaluna-Bloodmoon
Urshifu (both forms)
Volcarona
Zacian (both forms)
Zamazenta (both forms)
Zekrom
Watchlist :
Blunder Policy
Rocky Helmet
Sticky Barbs
Rocky Helmet
Sticky Barbs
Destruction
Explosion
Revival Blessing
Shell Smash
Explosion
Revival Blessing
Shell Smash
Increased Viability :
Porygon-Z becomes a much bigger threat, whether as a setup sweeper or Choice Scarf attacker, being provided with powerful moves, coverage in line with its high SpA (Blizzard, Hyper Beam, Thunder, Zap Cannon), abilities and access to Nasty Plot, plus options like Trick or Conversion. Its vulnerability to priority moves or fast opponents is counterbalanced by the help of EBW recoils.Porygon-Z @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Adaptability
Tera Type: Ice/Electric/Ghost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tri Attack/Hyper Beam
- Trick
- Discharge/Thunder/Zap Cannon
- Ice Beam/Blizzard/Shadow Ball
Ability: Adaptability
Tera Type: Ice/Electric/Ghost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tri Attack/Hyper Beam
- Trick
- Discharge/Thunder/Zap Cannon
- Ice Beam/Blizzard/Shadow Ball
Porygon-Z @ Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
Tera Type: Normal/Ghost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Nasty Plot/Conversion/Recover
- Icy Wind
- Tera Blast/Tri Attack/Hyper Beam
Ability: Adaptability
Tera Type: Normal/Ghost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Nasty Plot/Conversion/Recover
- Icy Wind
- Tera Blast/Tri Attack/Hyper Beam
Decreased Viability :
Q&A :
Q1: What happens if my Pokémon use Explosion whereas my opponent is immune ?
A1: In case the opponent is Ghost-type, there's no "recoil of the dead" so the user faints and nothing else happens ; in case of Damp, the recoil is stored, and the user won't suicide upon being hit.
Q2: Why not consider moves blocked by Substitute and Protect being EBW recoils ?
A2: Substitute and Protect are frequently used, mostly for temporizing, which would favor setting up EBW recoils in this metagame. This is not included in the rules to avoid unnecessary mindgames.
Q3: How situational moves react as EBW recoils ?
A3: Moves like Avalanche, Facade, Knock Off or Rollout inflict recoil damages based on their initial base power.
Q4: Does Dancer copy dance moves when they're EBW recoils ?
A4: No, it doesn't.
Q5: Would a Pokémon with Imposter/Transform copy target's EBW recoil ?
A5: No, it wouldn't.
Questions for the community :
Should I limit the EBW recoil to the first moveslot ?
Should I illustrate/give examples about how a game would work under these rules ?
Should I add/remove moves in the bans/watchlist/non eligible for recoils ? What about Pokémon and items ?
Resources :
Playability :
Waiting for approval
Council :
TeaThymeLine
Last edited:
What exactly do you mean by a “recoil”? Something like Payback/Avalanche? Please provide an example.
Think of Double-Edge recoil : when a Pokémon uses Double-Edge, it'll receive 33% the HP lost by the target. The same is happening for other moves in this meta, except that the recoil (HP lost for using the move) is dictated by AND corresponding to the damages/effet of the last move the target missed. I gave two examples in the rules, hope I made the concept clearer.
EDIT : I provided examples at the end of the rules
Last edited:
I decided to throw my hat in the ring. As such, i present you:
Regional Cups
What would Regional Cups entail in? These would be various metagame formats where you'd be limited to Pokémon related to a specific Region (Be Pokémon that showed up in a Region, or for the most part, are part of it's Regional Dex). These formats would be mainly used for Tournaments.
These formats would play in Gen 9 Nat Dex format.
The Cups in question are as follows, each with a basic detail on them:
Unfortunately, this does mean that Bans and Threats would only be gauged once the Cups get going in testing.
Questions for the Community:
1. Would you like to see the formats for other Regions i have in mind? I got more, but due to the length of this post, i decided to first post these, and if there was interest, i'd edit the post in order to update the listings.
2. Do you think Johto and Kitakami could share a cup? Given how similar the locations are in terms of tradition and geography, and how Kitakami has many Johto species.
3. Do you think Blueberry and Unova should share a cup?
4. Are any of these deemed unnecessary?
5. Do you have any potential cup idea for this? I'd love to hear potential feedback.
6. Given the nature of this being made with tournaments in mind, do you think we should make each cup format last the entire tournament, or do you think it's worth trying to do a "Each Round, a new Cup is picked"? I think if the latter is done, this means Players MUST construct teams for Each Cup, and have to swap on the fly. Meaning they can't rely exclusively on a particular cup they're more skilled on.
7. Anything else you wanna add (Be it a question, or a comment about this)?
Regional Cups
What would Regional Cups entail in? These would be various metagame formats where you'd be limited to Pokémon related to a specific Region (Be Pokémon that showed up in a Region, or for the most part, are part of it's Regional Dex). These formats would be mainly used for Tournaments.
These formats would play in Gen 9 Nat Dex format.
The Cups in question are as follows, each with a basic detail on them:
The Kanto Cup:
This would consist of the original 151 Pokémon, nothing else.
The Let's Go Cup:
This would consist of the original 151 Pokémon, plus any Regional Forms (Excluding Alternative Evolution Family Members) + Meltan and Melmetal
The Sevii Cup:
The Let's Go Cup, but with all of the Gen 2 Pokémon the player has access to with the Sevii Islands. It also finally includes the New Evolutions/preevolutions to older Pokémon (Alterning Cave/Birth Island/Navel Rock Options included). This also includes forms like Paldean Wooper, or evolutions like Ursaluna.
The Kanto 2.0 Cup:
The Let's Go Cup, but with an extension including the evolutions/preevolutions to old Pokémon, as well as expanding the available options with the following evolution lines (Based on MissingNo. Data) (Also including Forms and evolutions):
Shuckle
Heracross
Ho-Oh
Sneasel
Teddiursa
Slugma
Swinub
Corsola
Remoraid
Delibird
Mantine
Skarmory
Houndour
Phanpy
Stantler
Smeargle
Miltank
Raikou
Entei
Suicune
Larvitar
Lugia
May potentially include Munna, and potentially more depending on early reveals on the anime, depending on potential Debate.
This would consist of the original 151 Pokémon, nothing else.
The Let's Go Cup:
This would consist of the original 151 Pokémon, plus any Regional Forms (Excluding Alternative Evolution Family Members) + Meltan and Melmetal
The Sevii Cup:
The Let's Go Cup, but with all of the Gen 2 Pokémon the player has access to with the Sevii Islands. It also finally includes the New Evolutions/preevolutions to older Pokémon (Alterning Cave/Birth Island/Navel Rock Options included). This also includes forms like Paldean Wooper, or evolutions like Ursaluna.
The Kanto 2.0 Cup:
The Let's Go Cup, but with an extension including the evolutions/preevolutions to old Pokémon, as well as expanding the available options with the following evolution lines (Based on MissingNo. Data) (Also including Forms and evolutions):
Shuckle
Heracross
Ho-Oh
Sneasel
Teddiursa
Slugma
Swinub
Corsola
Remoraid
Delibird
Mantine
Skarmory
Houndour
Phanpy
Stantler
Smeargle
Miltank
Raikou
Entei
Suicune
Larvitar
Lugia
May potentially include Munna, and potentially more depending on early reveals on the anime, depending on potential Debate.
The Johto Cup:
This cup utilizes exclusively the 100 New Pokémon introduced in Gold and Silver. Nothing else.
The Crystal Cup:
This cup includes all of the 100 Original Johto Pokémon + Regional Forms and Evolutions that tie in to these new Pokémon.
The Tohjo Cup:
A combination of the Johto and Kanto Cups, using only the 251 Pokémon in the Johto Dex.
The Tohjo+ Cup:
Tohjo Cup but including the additions to HGSS's regional dex.
The Plateau Cup:
A combination of the Kanto 2.0, Sevii, Let's Go, Tohjo+ and Crystal Cups. The culmination of Kanto and Johto May potentially include early anime reveals for Pokémon too
This cup utilizes exclusively the 100 New Pokémon introduced in Gold and Silver. Nothing else.
The Crystal Cup:
This cup includes all of the 100 Original Johto Pokémon + Regional Forms and Evolutions that tie in to these new Pokémon.
The Tohjo Cup:
A combination of the Johto and Kanto Cups, using only the 251 Pokémon in the Johto Dex.
The Tohjo+ Cup:
Tohjo Cup but including the additions to HGSS's regional dex.
The Plateau Cup:
A combination of the Kanto 2.0, Sevii, Let's Go, Tohjo+ and Crystal Cups. The culmination of Kanto and Johto May potentially include early anime reveals for Pokémon too
The Hoenn Cup:
A cup that only allows the player to use Hoenn Native Pokémon.
The Hoenn+ Cup:
A cup that only allows the player to use Hoenn Native Pokémon, and respective evolutions and regional forms.
The 200 Cup:
A Cup that allows the Player to use the Pokémon that are present in the Original Hoenn Dex.
The Delta Cup:
200 Cup but with regional forms and evolutions to the Pokémon present in the Hoenn Regional Dex.
Evergrande Cup:
Delta Cup + Pokémon Encounters in ORAS that are not part of Hoenn Regional Dex (Excluding Mirage Spots) + Potential Early Revealed Mons Around the Gen 3 period, and their associated forms and evolutions.
The Frontier Cup:
Evergrande Cup + Safari Zone Expansion Encounters from Emerald + Johto Starters + Sudowoodo + Mew/Lugia/Ho-Oh + Smeargle and their associated forms and evolutions.
The Mirage Cup:
The Frontier Cup + Mirage Spot Pokémon + Sinnoh and Unova Starters from Birch and their associated Forms and Evolutions.
The Phenac Cup:
A Cup that Only allows the players to use the Pokémon obtainable in Pokémon Colosseum, those being:
Espeon and Umbreon
Plusle
All Shadow Pokémon Present in the game
Ho-Oh
Jirachi
Celebi
Pikachu Line
The E-Reader Shadow Pokémon (So really just Scizor)
Associated Regional Forms and Evolutions included.
The Agate Cup:
This is the Phenac Cup, but utilizing also a list of unused Pokémon/Shadow Pokémon that the player can now use for teambuilding:
Spoink
Psyduck
Baltoy
Mightyena
Castform
Porygon2
Breloom
Lunatone
Solrock
Roselia
Chimecho
Minun
Electrode
Snorunt
Corphish
Spheal
Sandslash
Kecleon
Whiscash
Xatu
Wobbuffet
Wailmer
(Note: Magcargo, Teddiursa and Aipom in this list would be redundant)
Associated Regional Forms and Evolutions are also included.
The Gateon Cup:
This cup Allows the player to use any Pokémon present in Pokémon XD: Gale of Darkness. This includes:
All of the Shadow Pokémon (Including Shadow Togepi)
Eevee
Chikorita
Cyndaquil
Totodile
Sandshrew
Gligar
Trapinch
Hoppip
Phanpy
Surskit
Zubat
Aron
Wooper
Elekid
Meditite
Shuckle
Larvitar
All associated Regional Forms and Evolutions are included
The Citadark Cup:
The Gateon Cup, with a few additions based on unused assets of XD Gale of Darkness, allowing a few more options, those being:
Loudred
Metang
Bonsly
Munchlax
Associated Regional forms and Evolutions are included.
The Realgam Cup:
The Realgam Cup merges the Citadark Cup and the Agate Cup together.
The Fiore Cup:
This cup would allow the Player to use Pokémon within the Fiore Regional Browser. This Cup also allows for Regional Forms and Evolutions associated with these Pokémon to be used.
A cup that only allows the player to use Hoenn Native Pokémon.
The Hoenn+ Cup:
A cup that only allows the player to use Hoenn Native Pokémon, and respective evolutions and regional forms.
The 200 Cup:
A Cup that allows the Player to use the Pokémon that are present in the Original Hoenn Dex.
The Delta Cup:
200 Cup but with regional forms and evolutions to the Pokémon present in the Hoenn Regional Dex.
Evergrande Cup:
Delta Cup + Pokémon Encounters in ORAS that are not part of Hoenn Regional Dex (Excluding Mirage Spots) + Potential Early Revealed Mons Around the Gen 3 period, and their associated forms and evolutions.
The Frontier Cup:
Evergrande Cup + Safari Zone Expansion Encounters from Emerald + Johto Starters + Sudowoodo + Mew/Lugia/Ho-Oh + Smeargle and their associated forms and evolutions.
The Mirage Cup:
The Frontier Cup + Mirage Spot Pokémon + Sinnoh and Unova Starters from Birch and their associated Forms and Evolutions.
The Phenac Cup:
A Cup that Only allows the players to use the Pokémon obtainable in Pokémon Colosseum, those being:
Espeon and Umbreon
Plusle
All Shadow Pokémon Present in the game
Ho-Oh
Jirachi
Celebi
Pikachu Line
The E-Reader Shadow Pokémon (So really just Scizor)
Associated Regional Forms and Evolutions included.
The Agate Cup:
This is the Phenac Cup, but utilizing also a list of unused Pokémon/Shadow Pokémon that the player can now use for teambuilding:
Spoink
Psyduck
Baltoy
Mightyena
Castform
Porygon2
Breloom
Lunatone
Solrock
Roselia
Chimecho
Minun
Electrode
Snorunt
Corphish
Spheal
Sandslash
Kecleon
Whiscash
Xatu
Wobbuffet
Wailmer
(Note: Magcargo, Teddiursa and Aipom in this list would be redundant)
Associated Regional Forms and Evolutions are also included.
The Gateon Cup:
This cup Allows the player to use any Pokémon present in Pokémon XD: Gale of Darkness. This includes:
All of the Shadow Pokémon (Including Shadow Togepi)
Eevee
Chikorita
Cyndaquil
Totodile
Sandshrew
Gligar
Trapinch
Hoppip
Phanpy
Surskit
Zubat
Aron
Wooper
Elekid
Meditite
Shuckle
Larvitar
All associated Regional Forms and Evolutions are included
The Citadark Cup:
The Gateon Cup, with a few additions based on unused assets of XD Gale of Darkness, allowing a few more options, those being:
Loudred
Metang
Bonsly
Munchlax
Associated Regional forms and Evolutions are included.
The Realgam Cup:
The Realgam Cup merges the Citadark Cup and the Agate Cup together.
The Fiore Cup:
This cup would allow the Player to use Pokémon within the Fiore Regional Browser. This Cup also allows for Regional Forms and Evolutions associated with these Pokémon to be used.
Unfortunately, this does mean that Bans and Threats would only be gauged once the Cups get going in testing.
Questions for the Community:
1. Would you like to see the formats for other Regions i have in mind? I got more, but due to the length of this post, i decided to first post these, and if there was interest, i'd edit the post in order to update the listings.
2. Do you think Johto and Kitakami could share a cup? Given how similar the locations are in terms of tradition and geography, and how Kitakami has many Johto species.
3. Do you think Blueberry and Unova should share a cup?
4. Are any of these deemed unnecessary?
5. Do you have any potential cup idea for this? I'd love to hear potential feedback.
6. Given the nature of this being made with tournaments in mind, do you think we should make each cup format last the entire tournament, or do you think it's worth trying to do a "Each Round, a new Cup is picked"? I think if the latter is done, this means Players MUST construct teams for Each Cup, and have to swap on the fly. Meaning they can't rely exclusively on a particular cup they're more skilled on.
7. Anything else you wanna add (Be it a question, or a comment about this)?
Ideas that simply restrict Pokemon are technically UMs, not OMs. This is rejected by the 6th example in the "BANS / BUILDING RESTRICTIONS" section under "Common Submissions" in #1.
Okay my OM idea is Itemmons, which is where every Pokémon can hold another as a consumable item, and it activates once the mon reaches under % health (for balance). The items activation does multiple things:
1. Adds the type/s of the itemmon to the user of the item. So a normal type holding an electric/ghost type becomes normal/electric/ghost type.
2. Adds the main ability of the itemmon to the user. So a Pokémon holding gholdengo would get good as gold, as well as their base ability.
3. Gives the highest stat of the ITEMMON a significant boost, say 50% or so. A Pokémon holding an itemmon with equalised stats gets a boost at random.
These items CAN be knocked off or stolen or tricked etc. Only one of each itemmon can be used per team.
Possible Bans:
Most Ubers Mons (Metagame will be centralised around OU mostly)
Itemmons:
Gholdengo - Good As Gold would be broken as a second ability. Need I say more
Ruin Mons - Stat reduction is really good, especially passively
Comfey - Triage, a fairy type and essentially a free assault vest would be great on a Pokémon with actual attacking stats
Ubers Mons - As stated above
Edits 1: added some more to the banlist and changed the items activation to 50%
1. Adds the type/s of the itemmon to the user of the item. So a normal type holding an electric/ghost type becomes normal/electric/ghost type.
2. Adds the main ability of the itemmon to the user. So a Pokémon holding gholdengo would get good as gold, as well as their base ability.
3. Gives the highest stat of the ITEMMON a significant boost, say 50% or so. A Pokémon holding an itemmon with equalised stats gets a boost at random.
These items CAN be knocked off or stolen or tricked etc. Only one of each itemmon can be used per team.
Possible Bans:
Most Ubers Mons (Metagame will be centralised around OU mostly)
Itemmons:
Gholdengo - Good As Gold would be broken as a second ability. Need I say more
Ruin Mons - Stat reduction is really good, especially passively
Comfey - Triage, a fairy type and essentially a free assault vest would be great on a Pokémon with actual attacking stats
Ubers Mons - As stated above
Edits 1: added some more to the banlist and changed the items activation to 50%
Last edited:
This is just Fervent Impersonation but slightly different.
Also 25% is far too low of a threshold.
Also 25% is far too low of a threshold.
Utilitymons
Is your favorite pokemon cursed with a very bad ability? Does your pokemon have multiple very strong abilities? Well, have I got the OM for you!
In Utilitymons, you can replace your ability with an item, OR replace your item with another ability legal to your pokemon! For examples...
As you can see with the above pokemon, some pokemon gain huge benefit from multiple items, and some gain good benefits from multiple abilities!
Initial Banlist
& 
Edit1: added slaking to ban list, fixed minor grammar
Is your favorite pokemon cursed with a very bad ability? Does your pokemon have multiple very strong abilities? Well, have I got the OM for you!
In Utilitymons, you can replace your ability with an item, OR replace your item with another ability legal to your pokemon! For examples...
Clefable @ Unaware
Ability: Magic Guard
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Night Shade
- Knock Off
- Moonlight
- Thunder Wave
Clefable can use both of its' great abilities to both beat status/hazards as well as walling setup sweepers like Darkrai!
Ability: Magic Guard
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Night Shade
- Knock Off
- Moonlight
- Thunder Wave
Clefable can use both of its' great abilities to both beat status/hazards as well as walling setup sweepers like Darkrai!
Metagross @ Choice Band
Ability: Life Orb
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Knock Off
- Psychic Fangs
- Heavy Slam
Metagross can replace its' useless ability with LOrb, allowing it to hit extra hard with Bullet Punch and Knock Off!
Ability: Life Orb
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Knock Off
- Psychic Fangs
- Heavy Slam
Metagross can replace its' useless ability with LOrb, allowing it to hit extra hard with Bullet Punch and Knock Off!
As you can see with the above pokemon, some pokemon gain huge benefit from multiple items, and some gain good benefits from multiple abilities!
Initial Banlist
- Pokemon: Annihilape, Arceus (all forms), Archaludon, Calyrex-Ice, Deoxys, Deoxys-Attack, Deoxys-Speed, Dialga, Dragapult, Espathra, Eternatus, Flutter Mane, Giratina, Groudon, Iron Bundle, Koraidon, Kyogre, Kyurem-Black, Kyurem-White, Lugia, Lunala, Magearna, Mewtwo, Miradon, Necrozma-Dawn-Wings, Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, Palafin, Palkia, Rayquaza, Reshhiram, Shaymin-Sky, *Slaking Sneasler, Solgaleo, Spectrier, Terapagos, Weavile, Ursaluna-Bloodmoon, Urshifu, Urshifu-RS, Zacian, Zamazenta, Zekrom
- Moves: Baton Pass, Last Respects, Shed Tail
- Items: Bright Powder, King's Rock, Razor Fang
- Abilities: Trapping, Moody, Evasion
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Dragapult banned because of multi-item plus being really fast, could be suspected in the future.
Weavile is a similar story but it wants phys items instead of special items.
Of the Ubers unbanned most of them are reliant on item/ability combos (e.g, Landorus-I relies on SFLorb, Regieleki relies on Magnet + Transistor to deal damage, etc) that would be outscaled by heightened offensive/defensive capabilities.
Choice Scarf + a second offensive item (e.g, Choice Band, Choice Specs, and LOrb being the most notable) may be too difficult for the meta to handle without devolving into a speed-creep war. Pokemon such as Iron Valiant and Kyurem can run LOrb + Scarf to have essentially unscoutable sets, Darkrai can run Boots + Scarf to be essentially impossible to beat without priority, and Scarf + second Choice item empowers a LOT of pokemon with a free dragon dance/special dragon dance.
Focus Sash + Boots, Focus Sash + Weakness Policy, even something like Sash + Mental Herb or Sash + Light Clay may be too strong as free sturdy on leads, setup sweepers (shell smash), etc just seems really really good. Imagine a Smeargle, but you can't stop it from setting webs period
Kyurem can happily run either special, physical, or mixed, and is happy to dump the useless pressure for an extra item. Perhaps its' too good considering how strong Kyus' coverage is.
& Despite the fact that both Ruin pokemon start unbanned in this meta (since they don't want to abandon their abilities for double item and can't double down on abilities), they still might be overall too problematic in the meta.
Yea, Tera might make the offensive power of certain pokemon too untenable to make for a fun meta. Tera could easily get axed.
Q: What if I have a consumable item (sash, berries) in my ability slot? Do I have No Ability after it gets consumed?
A: Yes, though this is up in the air due to coding constraints. It's possible we'll need a "consumable clause."
Q: What happens if I have two items and someone hits me with Knock Off? What about two abilities?
A: If you are holding two items, the item in the item slot gets Knocked Off as normal, and the item in the ability slot cannot get knocked off. If you are holding two abilities, Knock Off acts as if you are itemless. (For clarification, Acrobatics and Unburden still behave normally and do not double in base power or double your speed)
Q: Can I use illegal abilities in my item slot?
A: No, only abilities that the pokemon can already use. This means single-ability pokemon (such as Chien-Pao) may not run two abilities. Additionally, you cannot use duplicate abilities.
Q: ok what about Frisk?
A: It'll show whatever is in the Item slot (ability or item). This means whatever is in the ability slot stays hidden.
Q: Isn't this OM super offense oriented? What's to stop someone from running five Choice Band + Choice Scarf/other scary offense pokemon?
A: While its' true that a good chunk of items are offensively powerful (e.g, aformentioned Choice Combination), a good chunk of abilities are defensively powerful (e.x, Clodsire running Water Absorb AND Unaware), and there will definitely still be defensive pokemon utilizing multiple items (e.g, replacing Skarms' ability with boots/leftovers, or Goodra-H grabbing Red Card + Assault Vest). Additionally, Eviolite exists and can run in an unknockable way in the ability slot! (imagine Dusclops with Eviolite + Leftovers! Or Eviolite + Assault Vest!)
A: Yes, though this is up in the air due to coding constraints. It's possible we'll need a "consumable clause."
Q: What happens if I have two items and someone hits me with Knock Off? What about two abilities?
A: If you are holding two items, the item in the item slot gets Knocked Off as normal, and the item in the ability slot cannot get knocked off. If you are holding two abilities, Knock Off acts as if you are itemless. (For clarification, Acrobatics and Unburden still behave normally and do not double in base power or double your speed)
Q: Can I use illegal abilities in my item slot?
A: No, only abilities that the pokemon can already use. This means single-ability pokemon (such as Chien-Pao) may not run two abilities. Additionally, you cannot use duplicate abilities.
Q: ok what about Frisk?
A: It'll show whatever is in the Item slot (ability or item). This means whatever is in the ability slot stays hidden.
Q: Isn't this OM super offense oriented? What's to stop someone from running five Choice Band + Choice Scarf/other scary offense pokemon?
A: While its' true that a good chunk of items are offensively powerful (e.g, aformentioned Choice Combination), a good chunk of abilities are defensively powerful (e.x, Clodsire running Water Absorb AND Unaware), and there will definitely still be defensive pokemon utilizing multiple items (e.g, replacing Skarms' ability with boots/leftovers, or Goodra-H grabbing Red Card + Assault Vest). Additionally, Eviolite exists and can run in an unknockable way in the ability slot! (imagine Dusclops with Eviolite + Leftovers! Or Eviolite + Assault Vest!)
Edit1: added slaking to ban list, fixed minor grammar