Serious The Politics Thread

[faint]

Option 1. Who did you vote for in 2016 and 2020?

I'll answer this question for you because I want you to tell me why it matters to DR's point. My answer is also going to be the same for 95% of this thread.

I voted for Clinton in 2016 and was fine with it. I voted for Biden in 2020 and was unhappy that was the choice I was given.

Now explain.

 

[GatoDelFuego]

Civil rights and abortion rights will be gone if Biden doesn’t win

Aren't they already gone?

 

[myowngamertag]

what happened is that every self-proclaimed internet radical decided to parrot CNN at a time it desperately wants Trump back for the ratings

This. I was waiting for what CNN had to say about the debate before forming my opinion on Joe Biden.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

If the Dems run Biden, they will lose and it'll be deserved, before they go on to blame literally everything besides their own stupidity like they did in 2016 as Hillary did self-grandized victory laps and ran one of the worst campaigns in history.

This is even worse than Shillary's campaign tbh. If we're being honest, the biggest reason Bidet won in 2020 was because people did NOT want Trump back.

Make no mistake, Trump is an awful candidate. The Dems literally just had to put up a candidate that could make coherent sentences and look the part. They failed. Trying to play Weekend at Bernie's with Biden is literally one of the few ways to blow such an easy layup. It's incredible that they couldn't prop up a successor for Biden.

The man is 81 years old. How in the hell did they not even have a plan B? Matter of fact, what happened to that being Plan A? Get Biden to kick Trump out as a strong candidate then pass the torch to the new generation as the incumbent and crush Trump's last attempt to consolidate them in the process. It was a good plan, and it was really that simple.

Dems keep playing Dumb Ways to Die and messing up the easiest elections in the world.

 

[RaikouLover]

How come the cross-tabs are shitty? You kind of need to elaborate in order for people to take you seriously. West Virginia was a Dem stronghold for over 40 years until 2000 when it flipped and never turned back, the South was a Dem stronghold until the Civil Rights Act and only turned back for Bill Clinton, and Virginia was reliably Republican from 1960 until 2000. This election is similarly unprecedented in its possibilities of swings given the candidates and the fact both are unpopular incumbents.

I linked the poll so how about we read the cross tabs and critically think before disparaging my comment and taking these bullshit polls at face value:

The relevant crosstabs have:
18-34: Trump 44-27
Jewish: Trump 49-42
Latino: Trump 30-28
Black: Biden 58-19
Asian: Trump 45-30
Democrats: Biden 65-15
Republicans: Trump 82-9

As opposed to how voters voted in the last two cycles?
Top Line: Biden 57-41, Clinton 55-41
18-34: Biden 66-32, Clinton 59-31
Jewish: Biden 70-30, Clinton (no data)
Latino: Biden 72-26, Clinton 76-23
Asian: Biden 76-23, Clinton (no data)
Black: Biden 86-12, Clinton 89-9
Democrats: Biden 95-4, Clinton 86-12
Republicans: Trump 89-10, Trump 86-15

Yeah, felon Trump is going to win New Jersey folks. If you believe these "polls," it is time put down the right-wing crack pipe.

This is even worse than Shillary's campaign tbh. If we're being honest, the biggest reason Bidet won in 2020 was because people did NOT want Trump back.

But you are arguing that people want convicted felon Trump back now.

 

[Divine Retribution]

Option 1.

I see. So the post I quoted must not be true then. What's your explanation?

Who did you vote for in 2016 and 2020?

Abstained in 2016 and voted Biden in 2020. After Biden's handling of Palestine, I will not do so again, no matter how many spineless, principleless libs impotently rage at me on a Pokemon forum. I live in a state that hasn't voted red since Reagan so my vote isn't worth the paper it's printed on in any case.

Now, go ahead and explain how that's relevant.

 

[RaikouLover]

I see. So the post I quoted must not be true then. What's your explanation?

Abstained in 2016 and voted Biden in 2020. After Biden's handling of Palestine, I will not do so again, no matter how many spineless, principleless libs impotently rage at me on a Pokemon forum. I live in a state that hasn't voted red since Reagan so my vote isn't worth the paper it's printed on in any case.

Now, go ahead and explain how that's relevant.

You answered it. You never liked the Democrats and live in a safe blue state. You know the position is inconsequential. Aka Option 1.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

But you are arguing that people want convicted felon Trump back now.

I've posted multiple times that Trump's wincon is to have people lose faith in Biden and not vote at all.

This is only viable because Biden's health is that much of a concern.

But hey, maybe he'll pop a can of spinach the next debate and go full Popeye on Trump.

 

[RaikouLover]

I've posted multiple times that Trump's wincon is to have people lose faith in Biden and not vote at all.

This is only viable because Biden's health is that much of a concern.

Yep. Convicted felon Trump’s ceiling is 45-47% of the vote. Biden will get 47-51%, depending on Democratic turnout. That’s why there is a coordinated Republican effort to get third parties on as many states as possible. It’s also why they are foaming at the mouth to get Biden to drop out.

Biden is the strongest candidate to win (due to incumbency) and the right-wing knows it. And if the replacement is not named Kamala Harris (who will lose), it is self-inflicted political suicide. Don’t listen to me though go look at what happens in US elections to parties that give up their incumbency.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

It’s also why they are foaming at the mouth to get Biden to drop out.

Do you really think the Dems couldn't have rolled out a strong candidate and have them endorsed by Biden to have a much easier run?

The Republicans are celebrating that debate. If it weren't for Biden making Windows shutdown noises, the outcome would be Trump getting cooked for blatantly lying his ass off as usual.

 

[Chou Toshio]

I linked the poll so how about we read the cross tabs and critically think before disparaging my comment and taking these bullshit polls at face value:

View attachment 644218

The relevant crosstabs have:
18-34: Trump 44-27
Jewish: Trump 49-42
Latino: Trump 30-28
Black: Biden 58-19
Asian: Trump 45-30
Democrats: Biden 65-15
Republicans: Trump 82-9

As opposed to how voters voted in the last two cycles?
Top Line: Biden 57-41, Clinton 55-41
18-34: Biden 66-32, Clinton 59-31
Jewish: Biden 70-30, Clinton (no data)
Latino: Biden 72-26, Clinton 76-23
Asian: Biden 76-23, Clinton (no data)
Black: Biden 86-12, Clinton 89-9
Democrats: Biden 95-4, Clinton 86-12
Republicans: Trump 89-10, Trump 86-15

Yeah, felon Trump is going to win New Jersey folks. If you believe these "polls," it is time put down the right-wing crack pipe.



But you are arguing that people want convicted felon Trump back now.

Those cross tabs look exactly right— the demographic data looks correct to me.

Holy shit that’s terrifying.

I knew the current numbers, I wasn’t aware Biden had THAT much of an advantage with so many minorities last time.

 

[RaikouLover]

Do you really think the Dems couldn't have rolled out a strong candidate and have them endorsed by Biden to have a much easier run?

No. It is not an easier run. Easiest path is the incumbent.

Those cross tabs look exactly right— the demographic data looks correct to me.

Holy shit that’s terrifying.

I knew the current numbers, I wasn’t aware Biden had THAT much of an advantage with so many minorities last time.

The poll says Biden is down by 1 in NJ, and is losing among all coalition groups except for black voters. Similar cross tabs I’ve seen in National and swing state polls (all with felon over performing)

So the question is do you believe these polls or historical voting preferences?

(Special elections since Dobbs have shown Dems over performance 6-12 points on average)

 

[CaffeineBoost]

I do wonder if being the incumbent is really enough to outweigh Joe Biden's current public image, especially given a lot of liberal voters (quite a good handful if this thread is to be believed) are somewhat reluctant to vote for him and would be much happier to vote for an alternative. As an outsider looking in, it looks to me like Biden's been looking a lot less capable and it'd make some sense to let him retire and replace him with someone who is far more able. It's very much an election between someone who can't speak and someone who can't shut the fuck up at the moment.

I also wonder why Trump changed his first name to Felon, feels like a bit of a bad PR move on his part... then again I think he's incapable of going a single day without making a bad PR move.

 

[BigFatMantis]

I do wonder if being the incumbent is really enough to outweigh Joe Biden's current public image, especially given a lot of liberal voters (quite a good handful if this thread is to be believed) are somewhat reluctant to vote for him and would be much happier to vote for an alternative. As an outsider looking in, it looks to me like Biden's been looking a lot less capable and it'd make some sense to let him retire and replace him with someone who is far more able. It's very much an election between someone who can't speak and someone who can't shut the fuck up at the moment.

I also wonder why Trump changed his first name to Felon, feels like a bit of a bad PR move on his part... then again I think he's incapable of going a single day without making a bad PR move.

Not looking good for Biden tbh

Keep in mind though that all other "potential" Democratic candidates that would replace Biden would also all be trailing Trump, so it's not like a replacement candidate is going to magically fix things.

Also I'm just posting in here so I can be notified of new posts to read.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Bernie did such a fantastic job selling the importance of the administration’s work on Antitrust and how Biden’s department of labor has supported unions.

Disgusting how Wall Street cares so little for democracy that they care more about Trump tax cuts than free society.

Good thing we have Bernie out there to tell the people about Biden’s great work.

 

[RaikouLover]

View attachment 644339

Not looking good for Biden tbh

Keep in mind though that all other "potential" Democratic candidates that would replace Biden would also all be trailing Trump, so it's not like a replacement candidate is going to magically fix things.

Also I'm just posting in here so I can be notified of new posts to read.

Political scientists have already established that debates do not matter. Hillary Clinton “won” all three debates.

In other consequential news… How about this Supreme Court ruling?

So now Presidents can “officially” order… acts of terror against political rivals with no consequence. Thank you, Supreme Court.

But Hillary lied and Biden is old.

 

[Divine Retribution]

In other consequential news… How about this Supreme Court ruling?

You mean the one that guts environmental agencies, the one that criminalizes homelessness, or the nakedly partisan de facto pardoning of insurrectionists?

So now Presidents can “officially” order… acts of terror against political rivals with no consequence. Thank you, Supreme Court.

Yep, sure is bad, can't wait to vote that problem away. When do the members of the SCOTUS come up for re-election again?

... Oh, right.

I'm not allowed to say we don't live under a democracy though, that would be a right-wing talking point, wouldn't it?

 

[Chou Toshio]

Good interview before the debate Bernie— Bernie you gotta go out again. We need another one, this was excellent how you answered every question!

Very important now for our trusted, senior leaders to be immovable rock; to go out and make strong, cogent arguments to the American people about why Biden is the candidate standing with working families and why we MUST vote for the Democrat in the face of authoritarian, ruinous outcome that would be a second Trump Presidency.

 

[RaikouLover]

You mean the one that guts environmental agencies, the one that criminalizes homelessness, or the nakedly partisan de facto pardoning of insurrectionists?

Yep, sure is bad, can't wait to vote that problem away. When do the members of the SCOTUS come up for re-election again?

Yes, the Supreme Court that felon was able to appoint 1/3 of the justices. Elections have consequences.

The catch on this ruling is that Biden could “officially” do anything to fix this now. (Yes, we know Democrats are too weak to act on it)

I'm not allowed to say we don't live under a democracy though, that would be a right-wing talking point, wouldn't it?

Nah, it is just factually wrong.

 

[Divine Retribution]

The catch on this ruling is that Biden could “officially” do anything to fix this now. (Yes, we know Democrats are too weak to act on it)

Well, at least we agree on something.

 

[RaikouLover]

Well, at least we agree on something.

Now that Biden is officially King, what should he do first? What are the limits?

 

[Divine Retribution]

Now that Biden is officially King, what should he do first? What are the limits?

Implement term limits on supreme court justices, enshrine protections against discrimination based on race, sex, gender identity, and other immutable characteristics and the right to organize a labor union into the constitution, then abdicate his royal powers.

In a slightly more... grounded note, I don't think Biden should abuse the ruling to act as a de facto dictator, but I'm very surprised if you agree. Earlier with your David Duke analogies you came across as a very ends-justify-the-means sort of person. What would you have King Biden do?

 

[Pinecoishot]

interesting seeing which liberals have suddenly not cared about authoritarianism with what they are encouraging Joe to do after this ruling. Anyways Joe should establish democrats as the state party and put any dissenters in a camp somewhere. To save democracy of course

 

[Divine Retribution]

interesting seeing which liberals have suddenly not cared about authoritarianism with what they are encouraging Joe to do after this ruling. Anyways Joe should establish democrats as the state party and put any dissenters in a camp somewhere. To save democracy of course

I don't think anyone has said that... yet anyways.

 

[adjectivenoun]

I don't think Biden should abuse the ruling to act as a de facto dictator

I don't think that he should either, but it would be very funny if he used power granted to his office by the Supreme Court to impose term limits on the justices who granted it to him.