Serious The Politics Thread

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I'm not on board the false flag train but do you really think they can't rustle up a single Trump supporter willing to sacrifice their life to help their god king get elected? These fuckers were throwing COVID parties just because Fauci told them that's probably a bad idea.
So in order for this to work they take a crazy Trump supporter, tell him to shoot and just barely miss and kill innocent bystanders, and then everyone keeps quiet after? idk seems loony, regarding the covid stuff that's because they didn't believe in it lol.
 
Because there was an armed insurrection that assaulted the US Capitol building that Trump encouraged by making baseless claims that the election was rigged, something that to this day a large number of Republicans believe. This isn't just him making some policies and laws that I don't like, this is Donald Trump actively working in opposition to the Democratic process as we know it.

That downright terrifies me. The damage he could do in 4 more years could very well put US Democracy at risk, AGAIN.
There was just an assassination attempt on Trump possibly encouraged by the Democrats claiming another Trump presidency would turn the nation to Fascism. And some Republicans think the Democrats themselves were behind it. Maybe, it was just a citizen or citizens who went too far. This and January 6th. It’s both sides thinking the absolute worst of eachother and tearing eachother down with the nation.
 
Both sides dramatize everything the other does and I see a bunch of people blinded by political bias. That’s why we must listen to both sides to dig the truth. That’s what I’m trying to do. If you only listen to one side, you will (obviously) only agree with that side.

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There was just an assassination attempt on Trump possibly encouraged by the Democrats claiming another Trump presidency would turn the nation to Fascism. And some Republicans think the Democrats themselves were behind it. Maybe, it was just a citizen or citizens who went too far. This and January 6th. It’s both sides thinking the absolute worst of eachother and tearing eachother down with the nation.
what republican policies or beliefs do you think are good and should be listened to?
 
I don’t quite get why people think the nation will instantly collapse if Trump is president. He’s been one before and the nation didn’t suddenly cease to exist. Every Republican says the Democrats will end this nation. Every Deomocrat says the Republicans will end this nation. Trump was president. Biden was president. The nation has not ended. Both sides dramatize everything the other does and I see a bunch of people blinded by political bias. That’s why we must listen to both sides to dig the truth. That’s what I’m trying to do. If you only listen to one side, you will (obviously) only agree with that side.
Since he was last President, Trump has:
  • Spread claims that the 2020 election was fraudulent, undermining the democratic process and inspiring his followers to attempt an insurrection
  • Received support from groups who openly want to turn the President into an autocrat
  • Claimed that he will use the power of the Presidency to be "dictator for a day" if he is reelected
  • Seen the powers of the Presidency significantly expanded by Supreme Court Justices that were appointed during his first term
I don't think that the United States will collapse or cease to exist if Trump is reelected, but I don't think that it's hyperbole to call him a threat to the democratic process. He demonstrably only values the democratic process to the extent that it can be made to serve his ends, and he has a base of supporters who will welcome a tyrant with open arms if they can be assured that the right groups of people will suffer as a result. You are not "seeing through the bias" when you deny this reality. There are two sides to every debate, but that doesn't mean that both sides are equally valid or worth listening to.
 
So in order for this to work they take a crazy Trump supporter, tell him to shoot and just barely miss and kill innocent bystanders, and then everyone keeps quiet after? idk seems loony, regarding the covid stuff that's because they didn't believe in it lol.

Well, this was apparently a massive Secret Service failure. And this was the only active shooting scenario I can recall where innocent bystanders seemed more concerned with getting Trump on their cell phone video than trying to get the hell out of there.
 
what republican policies or beliefs do you think are good and should be listened to?
Cuts on some business regulations( regulations are good. But some of them can become ridiculous. A lot of a companies spending can go into making sure they follow regulations, meaning they have less money to create products or develop better products). Cuts on spending, but that will never happen since America has put itself in a trap with Americans expecting Welfare, Social Security, Medicare and stuff like that. Some social issues I’m more split on, and I have a feeling sharing those will not lead this thread to a good place.
 
Sitting Republican congressmen and congresswomen (including VP candidate JD Vance) are already accusing President Biden of “ordering” this. Disgusting. But that’s where we are headed.

Cuts on some business regulations( regulations are good. But some of them can become ridiculous. A lot of a companies spending can go into making sure they follow regulations, meaning they have less money to create products or develop better products).

Which regulations do you believe are good? Do you believe environmental, food, and drug regulations are good?
 
so, the same people who call trump a fascist and an authoritarian, are shocked and now saying it's a false flag when someone actually tries to stop fascism. It is not a fucking false flag, stop resorting to Alex jones level of idiocy and maybe accept Trump is someone who people would rightly assume to be enough of a threat to assassinate. I used to laugh at the idea of blue Maga, but it's unfortunate to see them even be treated seriously with stupid Alex Jones level conspiracy theories.
 
Cuts on some business regulations( regulations are good. But some of them can become ridiculous. A lot of a companies spending can go into making sure they follow regulations, meaning they have less money to create products or develop better products).

Forget about which regulations you think are good, which ones did Trump cut that you think were bad? Specifics please.


The rest if this is just Ayn Randian fantasy-world nonsense. Less regulations doesn't mean better products, it never has and never will. Gutting regulations and/or allowing corporations to self-regulate has literally never lead to a good outcome for anyone but shareholders and the top of the corporatte heirarchy. Corporations have exactly one motive; to make as much profit as possible. Not to make the best product possible or to make the average person's life better in any way, profit.


Cuts on spending, but that will never happen since America has put itself in a trap with Americans expecting Welfare, Social Security, Medicare and stuff like that.

The budget defecit is a complete non-issue. The funny thing about being massively in debt to China or whoever is that they have no ability to actually claim that debt without sinking their own economy too. It's economic mutually assured destruction. Being in debt on a national level is not the same thing as being in debt on a personal level, and all the hand-wringing and doomsaying that conservaives and neoliberal democrats do about it is pure political theatre.

As for the second part of this, yeah, sorry but that's the fucking point of a centralized government. If it isn't bettering the lives of its citizens, it has no purpose. What exactly do you think we pay taxes for, besides bombing brown people and bailing out billionaires?


Some social issues I’m more split on, and I have a feeling sharing those will not lead this thread to a good place.
Little bit of a fucking yikes on this one. Maybe you shouldn't have brought this up at all if you're too much of a coward to go into specifics?

I get the feeling you're under 18 and the shit you say here is a product of the environment you grew up in. Hopefully you'll grow out of it. I encourage you to poke your head out of your echo chamber a little more; listening to "both sides" doesn't matter when a) both sides are not equally valid, b) you don't seem to understand what either side is actually saying in the first place, and c) "both sides" is a largely theatrical framing to begin with; there are more perspectives out there than just American Conservative and lukewarm American Democrat. Try engaging with some of them instead of regurgitating the shit you hear from friends and family.
 
Sitting Republican congressmen and congresswomen (including VP candidate JD Vance) are already accusing President Biden of “ordering” this.
Opportunism at its finest. The narrative they're spinning is extremely strong. Can't say they're wrong though. People can't keep throwing gasoline everywhere and not expect some lunatics to show up with lit matches.

Polarization is a dangerous thing. That's why defusing this polarization is so important.
 
so, the same people who call trump a fascist and an authoritarian, are shocked and now saying it's a false flag when someone actually tries to stop fascism. It is not a fucking false flag, stop resorting to Alex jones level of idiocy and maybe accept Trump is someone who people would rightly assume to be enough of a threat to assassinate. I used to laugh at the idea of blue Maga, but it's unfortunate to see them even be treated seriously with stupid Alex Jones level conspiracy theories.

What exactly do you mean by blue maga mind me ask.
 
Opportunism at its finest. The narrative they're spinning is extremely strong. Can't say they're wrong though. People can't keep throwing gasoline everywhere and not expect some lunatics to show up with lit matches.

Polarization is a dangerous thing. That's why defusing this polarization is so important.

"Polarization" is a bullshit term utilised by intellectually cowardly people who refuse to recognise the phenomenon for what it is: the radicalisation of the Republican Party. There is nothing remotely similar for Democrats at an institutional scale. You wouldn't be characterising Afghanistan under the Taliban as "polarized," why is America different?
 

I already said I fully support the left politicians fully supporting Biden. That doesn’t mean I’m convinced by them on strategy. They have every personal political reason to support Biden— that’s smart for the left. I applaud

And in policy too— Biden’s the one I’D want to sit for the next 4 years, the most likely to listen to Bernie. That’s already baked in.

But for left voters that agree on the threat Trump poses but are not ideologically or politically tied to Biden, you’re not going to get us to genuinely agree with the same strategy our aligned leftists politicians are smartly performing.
 
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Opportunism at its finest. The narrative they're spinning is extremely strong. Can't say they're wrong though. People can't keep throwing gasoline everywhere and not expect some lunatics to show up with lit matches.

Polarization is a dangerous thing. That's why defusing this polarization is so important.


Yeah especially when Republican aligned far-right demagogues on Fox, Social Media (not gonna repeat listing all of these names) etc. were rightfully called out to fuel the vitriol for all these mass-shootings on queer clubs and increasing murders of queer people on the streets. Of course some lunatic people go the extremist way and start trying to assassinate political enemies eventually, which so far was a phenomenon of radicalized republicans threatening and killing minorities and trying to overthrow the government (January 6). Similar Phenomenon also in some european countries including Germany with radicalized AFD supporters and "Reichsbürger".
 
There was just an assassination attempt on Trump possibly encouraged by the Democrats claiming another Trump presidency would turn the nation to Fascism. And some Republicans think the Democrats themselves were behind it. Maybe, it was just a citizen or citizens who went too far. This and January 6th. It’s both sides thinking the absolute worst of eachother and tearing eachother down with the nation.
Everyone is right about what they’re saying, but the main thing is that 2016 Trump is not 2024 Trump, and likewise for the GOP.

In 2016 Trump was just a narcissist willing to be a figurehead for his own ego while a relatively normal GOP governed.

In 2024 the whole party infrastructure has been broken, and replaced by yes-men and facilitators to a man who has already orchestrated an armed coup, and a right wing media landscape & politicians openly “civilly debating” the need for a dictatorship or king.

This is an absurdly different situation. There’s no reason to listen to arguments from the fascist side.
 
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I had purposefully not been paying attention to this incident but now that I’m looking at it, this is bad. The situation, the fist pictures, all of it. It doesn’t matter what’s real— what matters is how our system and voters will handle it. Not good.

If Trump had a 70% chance to win (but I thought it was more like 90 even before) now it’s really locked in. Hope’s light is faint.

even if this is a joke i find it extremely important that we don't act doomer-ist about it. now is the time to prepare however you see fit to ensure you, your family, and your peers will survive this. as long as our chests can still draw breath, we are not defeated.

I like the doomer humor but love this post more. Sometimes just surviving is an act of revolution. Stay safe out there y’all— in the coming months and years shits going to get real…
 
I had purposefully not been paying attention to this incident but now that I’m looking at it, this is bad. The situation, the fist pictures, all of it. It doesn’t matter what’s real— what matters is how our system and voters will handle it. Not good.

If Trump had a 70% chance to win (but I thought it was more like 90 even before) now it’s really locked in. Hope’s light is faint.

It’s not changing anyone’s vote. Republicans are too cooky to garner any sympathy (half the caucus is spouting Biden conspiracy theories already).

Sorry that you feel that convicted felon Trump is inevitable. Fortunately, he’s not. He has never carried even 47% of the vote, and is quite the accomplished loser for the Republican Party. But polls, polls, polls! I can say with certainty, he’s not going to reach any of the lofty demographic numbers seen in polling come November.
 
"Polarization" is a bullshit term utilised by intellectually cowardly people who refuse to recognise the phenomenon for what it is: the radicalisation of the Republican Party. There is nothing remotely similar for Democrats at an institutional scale. You wouldn't be characterising Afghanistan under the Taliban as "polarized," why is America different?
I have a broader view.

If said radicalization is happening in other countries, we can't go around calling it the radicalization of the Republican party.

Political extremism has been on the rise in a global scale and taking different forms depending on the country.

People can hardly mention the word "politics" without someone snapping nowadays, let alone have any kind of civil discourse on policy.
Surely you must've seen the impact the last cycles had in your country. That's not normal.
 
Sorry that you feel that convicted felon Trump is inevitable. Fortunately, he’s not. He has never carried even 47% of the vote, and is quite the accomplished loser for the Republican Party.

Listen hombre, every time I read this thread for back and forths all your posts seem to be made right after you've finished huffing copium. Now I'm not the most politically versed guy as my college Poli Sci class was a kind of a joke, but I think you should look at the last president to be shot and how it effected his campaign. I heard you liked statistics so if you could somehow fill me in and explain to me why Trump being shot isn't somehow beneficial for him in the race I'm all ears partner!
 
I do think the Dems can still win— certainly there is more than enough chance that they should fight like hell— anywhere they can with anything they got left, pull the switch.

They will need to figure out how to narratively navigate the moment, and complacent status quo is almost surely insufficient. It’s time for boldness, and bravery.
 
Listen hombre, every time I read this thread for back and forths all your posts seem to be made right after you've finished huffing copium. Now I'm not the most politically versed guy as my college Poli Sci class was a kind of a joke, but I think you should look at the last president to be shot in an election year and how it effected his campaign. I heard you liked statistics so if you could somehow fill me in and explain to me why Trump being shot isn't somehow beneficial for him in the race I'm all ears partner!

People who think convicted felon Trump is unfit for office- whether that be because he is a rapist, a felon, a dictator, a guy that tried to overturn an election, a pathological liar, or the candidate that is going to pass a national abortion ban- will not change their mind on any of it because he allegedly got shot.

53-54% of the electorate is solidly anti-Trump. They were anti-Trump in November 2016. They were anti-Trump in November 2020. His disapproval rating has been about 53-54% nearly every day that he was President. And on July 14, 2024, his disapproval is 53.7%. So until I see evidence of anti-Trump sentiment seismically changing, I will continue to think that 53% of the country would vote for a dead person over convicted felon Trump. And for that reason, I do not give a shit if the polls and pundits this cycle claim otherwise.
 
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Trump has locked in his follower base, his voter % is not going to shrink or rise significantly unless a funnel to radicalize people in or out of that group is created. Biden is the one with fluctuating voter %, its people who want him vs people who dont want to vote at all. he's not competing with trump voters, hes competing with the wave of abstain resulting from his unpopularity.
 
Trump has locked in his follower base, his voter % is not going to shrink or rise significantly unless a funnel to radicalize people in or out of that group is created. Biden is the one with fluctuating voter %, its people who want him vs people who dont want to vote at all. he's not competing with trump voters, hes competing with the wave of abstain resulting from his unpopularity.

Yep, this is true. However, I’d argue that most people in 2020 were voting against Trump, not for Biden, to begin with. This is a self-implosion on the Democratic side that is completely unnecessary. The same threat as 2020 looms, and the coalition is still there if people would just stop the dooming. Biden never represented sweeping structural change. He’s going to be “normal” and protect democracy until 2028, when there will be a wide open primary to choose the candidate of the future.

Also regarding the Trump campaign, they know the math we are talking about. That’s why Republican donors are bankrolling RFK, Cornel West, and Jill Stein. They need to peel off enough votes from President Biden in the swing states for to the felon win. He simply does not otherwise have the numbers. It worked in 2016!
 
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