Serious The Politics Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
I'm both surprised and extremely happy with the pick. He's got similar, but better, credentials to a Buttigieg or Kelly, and he's super likable to boot. Harris/Walz is such a contrast with Trump/Vance on vibes alone.

I also love that he fervently advocates for liberal and progressive policies, not merely defends them from attack. One of my favorite moments in politics is the story that Minnesota Senator Al Franken used to tell about the need for government programs because you can't pull yourselves up by your bootstraps if you don't even have boots. Walz is a similarly good communicator about progressive policy and why it matters for labor, kids, etc.
 
Chou Toshio said:
Yeah, but sometimes what’s more important than the truth of the record is the direction indicated by the decision. No democrats are anti-Empire, but a choice signaling favoring human rights is certainly better than flat-out saying “fuck y’all” to them.
Click to expand...
Signaling a change while having no intention of actually making a change is not a good thing to be celebrated. It's a strategic choice intended to weaken mass movements while giving up as little ground as possible. Whether it will in fact succeed in doing so is up to us. To fight against this, an important part of our job is to not lie to people or to ourselves about either ruling party and what their actual intentions are.
 
BP said:
Because it'd be funny? I just said this
Click to expand...
ElectoralCollege1984.svg
 
lilyhollow said:
Signaling a change while having no intention of actually making a change is not a good thing to be celebrated. It's a strategic choice intended to weaken mass movements while giving up as little ground as possible. Whether it will in fact succeed in doing so is up to us. To fight against this, an important part of our job is to not lie to people or to ourselves about either ruling party and what their actual intentions are.
Click to expand...
Yeah, you’re right that it’s up to us— even when they signal the right thing there still have to be the political and economic arguments to MAKE them do the right thing—

—but that’s possible with Walz & Harris, would be harder with Shapiro (and more importantly a Kamala that picked Shapiro, openly defiant to the left), and in all likelihood impossible with Trump/Vance.

There are PLENTY of non-altruistic pressures on Kamala/Walz to step on Netanyahu and bring peace. Biggest being shame— of the world’s super power eating shit and looking like cucked losers licking our own attack dog while Japan/Korea/Western Countries/Latin Partners look down on us. But even beyond that, the Dems can be given plenty reason to not want a giant war with Iran also making trade completely impossible through the region’s critical air and water spaces. The left has hopes of adding enough political pressure on top of those selfish reasons to get Dems to step on Netanyahu’s neck and get some progress somehow.

Having a higher chance of that happening is worth celebrating because the alternative—

With Trump and Vance there’s no such thing— America first my ass, they could easily be swayed to the position of fuck that just genocide the Palestinians, join Israel in invading Lebanon and go to war with Iran.
 
A candidate who would perfectly satisfy leftists doesn't exist in American politics. They aren't allowed to exist. As far as the ones who do exist go, Walz is one of the best and I'm ecstatic that Harris went with him. It isn't over until it's over but between Trump picking the most demonic ghoul he could find and Harris picking a guy with S-tier progressive grandpa energy, I'm legitimately optimistic right now.

Palestine is still a massive problem and I support pressing Democrats on that issue, but let's not pretend like this isn't a big step in the right direction. Who do you think is more likely to listen to pro-Palestinian activists, progressives like Walz or the guy who openly wants to end democracy?
 
All it took was the Democratic Party to act like an actual political party, and within a month they went from ass cheeks to looking extremely solid. Good candidates (all things considered), good messaging, the other party threw a little but they also had possibly the best propaganda potential of all-time with Trump's image.

As of the last week literally they've been trying to get Twitch streamers on their side for marketing because they know they're in a bad position. Biden dead-enders lost.
 
@ DR's post specifically but also applies to other posts on this topic:

It is not a big step in the right direction. This is what I mean about using our excitement about electoral politics as an excuse to lie to ourselves about reality. The Democratic establishment, including Harris and Walz, do not intend to actually support or 'listen to pro-Palestinian activists.' Their intent is to vaguely signal 'support' in order to weaken popular backlash, precisely so that they are too weak to exert significant pressure. If we misconstrue this as a "big win" to be celebrated, that is a lie and cannot be accepted.

It is one thing to say "well, signaling is better than nothing, and it could maybe mean that they will be easier to pressure on this issue, if we keep that pressure up." This I am actually fine with! But if that's the case, then I would think it would be quite welcome, as opposed to unwelcome, to have some discussion of valid criticisms of the Democratic establishment, Tim Walz included, in this thread. Probably we would have a good discussion on how we could take advantage of this situation to truly increase pressure on the current ruling party which presides over the ongoing genocide.

If these kinds of criticisms are welcomed and earnestly grappled with, then I think that would be very productive. If instead we try to shut down criticisms because we are on an emotional high, that will work out well for us for about two seconds before blowing up in our faces.
 
Yahya Sinwar is the new leader of Hamas' political bureau after the previous one, Ismail Haniyeh, was assassinated.

I'm honestly not really sure what the implications are of this change, but here is some information about Sinwar himself at least.
Al Jazeera said:
Sinwar was born in a Gaza refugee camp, south of Khan Younis, and was the former head of the Al-Majd security apparatus, tasked with eliminating Palestinians suspected of collaborating with Israel. He became the leader of Hamas in the Gaza Strip in 2017.
Click to expand...
Wikipedia said:
In 1988, Sinwar planned the abduction and killing of two Israeli soldiers and the murder of four Palestinians whom he suspected of cooperating with Israel. He was arrested on February that year; during questioning he admitted to strangling one of the victims with his bare hands, suffocating another with a kaffiyeh, inadvertently killing a third during a violent interrogation, and accidentally shooting the fourth during an attempted abduction, and showed investigators an orchard where the four bodies were buried. He was sentenced to four life sentences in 1989.
Click to expand...
Wikipedia said:
Sinwar's time in prison was transformative, shaping his leadership qualities, according to Ghazi Hamad, a senior Hamas official. Sinwar also mastered Hebrew through an online program and extensively studied Israeli news to comprehend his adversary better. He meticulously translated Hebrew autobiographies of former Shin Bet chiefs into Arabic, sharing them with fellow inmates to study counterterrorism tactics. He referred to himself as a "specialist in the Jewish people’s history." Sinwar once remarked to supporters: "They wanted prison to be a grave for us, a mill to grind our will, determination and bodies. But, thank God, with our belief in our cause we turned the prison into sanctuaries of worship and academies for study.”
Click to expand...
Wikipedia said:
Sinwar played a pivotal role in the negotiations for Gilad Shalit's release [Gilad Shalit is an IDF soldier taken prisoner by Hamas who was ultimately exchanged for many Palestinian prisoners]. Despite being part of the negotiation team, Sinwar opposed deals that didn't include high-profile prisoners, known as "the impossibles," such as those serving multiple life sentences. Even after negotiations secured the release of over a thousand prisoners, including some high-profile ones, Sinwar remained adamant. This stance led to a rift in Hamas leadership, with Saleh al-Arouri, another prominent Hamas figure, recognizing the need for compromise. Despite efforts to persuade Sinwar, he persisted, even attempting to orchestrate a hunger strike involving 1,600 Hamas prisoners. His unwavering principles and refusal to compromise complicated negotiations. Eventually, Sinwar's authority waned as other Hamas leaders negotiated a deal without him, as Israeli authorities had put him in solitary confinement until the deal was reached. He was the most senior Palestinian prisoner released to Gaza among 1,026 others in the 2011 prisoner exchange for the soldier. In an interview with Hamas's Al-Aqsa TV, he expressed determination to continue efforts to free more prisoners, urging the Al-Qassam Brigades to kidnap soldiers for exchanges.
Click to expand...
This last quote seems especially pertinent. Based on what is described here, Sinwar is very obstinate, and yet this is the man Israel will now have to negotiate with (assuming they care to actually negotiate).


109261210.jpg


This photo was apparently taken after Sinwar's house was bombed by Israel in 2021.
Wikipedia said:
On 15 May 2021, an Israeli airstrike was reported to have hit the home of the Hamas leader; there were no immediate details of any deaths or injured. The strike took place in the Khan Yunis region of southern Gaza in the midst of evergrowing tension between Israelis and Palestinians. However, in the week that followed, he appeared publicly at least four times. The most obvious and daring thereof was in a press conference on 27 May 2021, when he mentioned (on air) that he will go home after the press conference (on foot), and invited the Israeli Minister of defense to take the decision to assassinate him in the following 60 minutes, until he reaches his home. Sinwar spent the next hour wandering in Gaza streets and having selfie photos with the public.
Click to expand...


And here is a small clip of an interview with Sinwar from some documentary:
https://x.com/i/web/status/1820892811497238940
 
ant4456 said:
All it took was the Democratic Party to act like an actual political party, and within a month they went from ass cheeks to looking extremely solid. Good candidates (all things considered), good messaging, the other party threw a little but they also had possibly the best propaganda potential of all-time with Trump's image.

As of the last week literally they've been trying to get Twitch streamers on their side for marketing because they know they're in a bad position. Biden dead-enders lost.
Click to expand...

It has been fascinating to watch in the last six weeks a fully self-inflicted roller coaster for people within the Democratic coalition. Convicted felon Trump is no more or less unpopular today as he was six weeks ago or even six years ago. He’s never been a juggernaut, never been a big scary electoral monster. He’s just the same bumbling fool that has yet to get 47% of the vote. However, I am glad Democrats finally got their confidence back.
 
Bughouse said:
Bush and Bowman both literally voted against the Dems signature piece of legislation
https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/05/poli...ats-voted-no-republicans-voted-yes/index.html
And Bush was also under a criminal investigation too
https://apnews.com/article/cori-bus...nvestigation-70beaae928bcc72b7ecbcdd207a7377d

I think the outside spending is opportunistic and gross but to think her losing her primary is primarily to do with israel is suspect af without data to back that up.
Click to expand...


The whole Squad did vote against that Bill in Congress in a frankly childish "All-Or-Nothing" move, because they wanted the economical package passed at the same time and Bidens administration was lucky that 13 Republicans in Congress decided to vote for it in these days of extremely partisan politics. "The Squad" and their supporters should do a introspect look instead of blaming the recent losses entirely on AIPAC money spending and talking about "Neolibs" having a vendetta against them since 2016.
 
Bughouse said:
Bush and Bowman both literally voted against the Dems signature piece of legislation
https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/05/poli...ats-voted-no-republicans-voted-yes/index.html
Click to expand...
Medeia said:
The whole Squad did vote against that Bill in Congress in a frankly childish "All-Or-Nothing" move, because they wanted the economical package passed at the same time and Bidens administration was lucky that 13 Republicans in Congress decided to vote for it in these days of extremely partisan politics.
Click to expand...

A lot of folks have revisionist memory over this whole episode. I’m not some super left-wing progressive yet the squad was 100% correct on this move at the time so it is rich seeing so many Democrats suddenly use it to bludgeon them about it three years later.

Recap: Joe Manchin didn’t want Build Back Better (BBB) at all and as the 50th vote was threatening to torpedo the whole thing. The squad wanted the infrastructure bill and BBB linked as leverage because unlike President Biden they didn’t trust Manchin would ever support BBB. They went on all the news outlets and explained this for weeks. However, Dems went along with uncoupling the bills anyway, passing infrastructure and then Manchin immediately reneged, killing BBB exactly like the squad said he would. Even with the squad voting no, there were just enough Dem votes to pass the BIP (infrastructure) without them. So yeah, it is disingenuous for Democrats to say the squad was “against” Biden’s agenda and use it against them when they were safeguarding his signature legislative proposal more than the rest of the party.
 
I’m well aware as is Medeia (they detailed it in their post already). I don’t give a shit about the reason. I would think you of all people who was expressing the importance of party unity and backing Biden mere weeks ago would understand why it doesn’t matter the reason and that you vote for your party’s signature legislation and don’t rely on opposition votes to pass it.

If you vote against your party’s signature legislation, expect a strong primary challenger and that you might lose. Simple as that.

This is the vote:
https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2021369?Page=2&Date=11/05/2021

Tell me how this didn't rely on Republicans to pass? If 13 Rs vote no, the final vote is 215-219.

Edit: Manchin was never going to vote for the combined package either, to be clear. You get what you can get with narrow majorities. I hate Manchin too, but pretending anything else was ever going to happen is a fantasy.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top