I really don't think you're in any position to pander to people about using tera effectively...
Last edited:
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
I have my grievances with Tera but you've more or less handwaved legitimate arguments people have given you.
That both players have to consider this when building and playing meaning a possible Roaring Moon with an odd tera type can't just auto click the button assuming a win, because their team may need that tera elsewhere later in the game. There's more nuance to the interaction than what you've been suggesting. Plus in a game between players of similar skill (assuming a decent high level), they're generally able to understand the game states where using tera is optimal and how to predict it. It's never a sure science, but it's not nearly as random as it gets made out to be anymore.
if roaring moon is in a position to sweep with tera ghost, but I have my priority in the back, do you think its competitive for them to just be able to invalidate my answer?
lmfao
From your perspective, the Tera Ghost was unexpected. From your opponent's perspective, his game plan obviously relied on it to counter the potential for a Banded Dragonite ESpeed sweep, and so while unpredictable, it's still a skillful usage of the mechanic.
Also, to be blunt, Tera Ghost is a common enough pick that you should anticipate something will have it, and strive not put yourself in a situation where it's all-or-nothing like that until they've committed their tera. If you were maneuvered into being forced to commit, that is, again, skillful play by your opponent.
and yet you'll never be half as good as anyone in that gif, including the audience, even though you've been playing for fifteen years
while I do generally agree with what your saying, but with how many things you need to account for in this tier, I can't exactly just have a team with multiple answers for example
did you just try to claim you are good after making that play LMAO
never said i was, but i'm not gonna sit here and let someone who can't even format a spongebob meme properly call me bad at anything. he made it personal
Last edited:
Given highly ranked players continue to be highly ranked on average and the tournament scene isn't dominated by offsets with Little Timmy's Dragon Dance Tera Ghost Roaring Moon, it would seem players can in fact continue to build teams with adequate answers into most of the metagame so as to perform consistently.
You said with how many things there are in the tier, you cant have a team with adequate answers. This is demonstrably false, and you completely pivoting to attack me shows you have no rebuttal to this fact.
who'd you pay to ladder for you? can i talk to them instead?
this argument is stupid bc it started over a insane simplification of the gambit / zama interaction to begin with. yall dont have any legs to insult people over optimal playing. nobody wants to watch the detention room students argue over who was more incorrect on a addition equation.
I don’t mean to interrupt the incredibly amicable and intellectual conversation going on, but what exactly has changed to make Darkrai generally not an issue in the eyes of top players and the general playerbase? It seems like focus has shifted completely away from it and instead onto gouge, kyurem, and tera blast. I’ve even seen more pro gliscor ban posts than rai. Is there any specific counterplay and adaptations people have found against it, or are there just more pressing issues at the moment?
More pressing issues, basically. Gouging wiping half your team or Kyurem PP stalling/PhysSpa destroying your walls is a lot more of a concern. I feel like after those two go that Darkrai will be more on the discussion table.
personally, whenever i use it or face it darkrai still seems really oppressive and the constant rng still makes it miserable to play against, so i think it's just about kyurem and gouging cementing themselves as bigger problems. hell, they never really stopped being problems after their first suspects. i think the lack of complaints about them for a while had more to do with the fact that we couldn't suspect them again for a while, so people decided to talk about more productive topics
Darkrai's initial damage output against most offensive targets such as Gouging Fire or Iron Moth is mediocre and I believe players are exploring more options to beat it beyond Zamazenta, like Tinkaton, Fezandipti, Scizor (kinda), and more fringe options like Hisuian Goodra, Alolan Muk and other high spdef Pokemon. Futhermore, many players appreciate its presence as a "reliable" Ice move user compared to Meowscarada / Weavile, as it helps against Gliscor, which is arguably even more difficult to deal with than Darkrai.
I haven't heard anything about either being used. Both are really bad pokemon in general, I do agree with others that other pokemon are a priority, but most of the stuff being used to slow Darkrai down are offense inclined picks (Scizor, Tinkaton) while Fez is usable, but difficult to fit. So I think there's still room potentially down the road to watch Darkrai carefully.
With the thread getting back on track, why not talk about our good friend Prehistoric Entei
With the suspect test in full swing, have people developed new techs/ rediscovered old ones to keep Gouge in line, or has this just solidified the notion of it being a phat bastard that's too hard to kill, hits way harder than it should and thus should be shown out of OU?
With the suspect test in full swing, have people developed new techs/ rediscovered old ones to keep Gouge in line, or has this just solidified the notion of it being a phat bastard that's too hard to kill, hits way harder than it should and thus should be shown out of OU?
252 SpA Darkrai Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gouging Fire: 144-169 (41 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
I wouldn't call this mediocre initial damage. By all accounts this is substantial damage, and Scizor has clearly less special bulk than Gouging Fire unless it has close to max Special Defense and HP investment, or you're using Assault Vest.
Yeah, Darkrai can't beat everything with one set, but it has the movepool to beat most answers. As Moyashi indicated, I don't really see players using Goodra-Hisui and Muk-Alola much as they are quite difficult to fit on teams with some pretty notable flaws like Muk-Alola getting owned by Gliscor.
Last edited:
With the thread getting back on track, why not talk about our good friend Prehistoric Entei
With the suspect test in full swing, have people developed new techs/ rediscovered old ones to keep Gouge in line, or has this just solidified the notion of it being a phat bastard that's too hard to kill, hits way harder than it should and thus should be shown out of OU?
Well I want it gone. And it seems to be the sentiment around a lot of prominent players. But to try to answer your question on counterplay, which I feel is still insufficient, the best thing I found for it is phasing because it is the DD sets that are the most problematic. Unaware walls would also work if Gouging wasn't a threat to 2HKO mons like Dozo. Generally, a team needs to pressure the opposing team so that GF can't get a free turn. This is easier said than done, though, so the ability to phase it can greatly help with this.
Tera Dragon can be somewhat mitigated, however, by having a Fairy type on the team and a Tera Fairy mon in the back pocket. If you have something that can resist Fire and also live one Tera Dragon Outrage, you can then take advantage of how Outrage locks Gouging in to switch and/or Tera into a Fairy. In this way, both Dozo and possibly even Dirge are potential checks for the wallbreaking. Heatran maybe could do something similar if you can play around EQ. Of course, Dirge and Heatran are both niche in this metagame and passive Dozo doesn't fit on every team.
That said, there are too many sets and there's too much threat of raw power to have easy answers for everything. As long as Tera Blast exists, there will always be the ability for GF to counter whatever checks become more common. But even without it, the sheer wall breaking potential of it's Fire and Dragon STAB on Sun Band or Tera Dragon outrage makes even things that would otherwise check it able to die in one or two hits. Tera Ground is also a general menace that won't go anywhere.
One thing I have not seen much, but could potentially become problematic, is Burning Bulwark on DD sets to further discourage revenge killing. As it is, I find a lot of priority against Gouging to be unreliable due to its typing, bulk, and Tera. The one I have heard about is Dragon Tail (and maybe Roar), which also requires an entirely different approach when facing it.
With the thread getting back on track, why not talk about our good friend Prehistoric Entei
With the suspect test in full swing, have people developed new techs/ rediscovered old ones to keep Gouge in line, or has this just solidified the notion of it being a phat bastard that's too hard to kill, hits way harder than it should and thus should be shown out of OU?
It’s like the physical Volcarona. Too much set variety on such a bulky mon that can runaway with the game. Let’s kick this Chiquita Banana monstrosity out of ColOUmbia.
God I played against a set like this earlier in the week. I lost the game due to being entirely unexpecting fucking Bulwark to burn my big boy (Okidogi, mind you). Miserable experience.
Last edited: