There's a set some folks experimented with to some ok results. Close to this one, but not quite the same. It goes like this:
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
This set looks kinda nice, I might give it a shot!
Why Body Press? What does that help with?
Nah, i'd Tera Ghost
Attachments
Body Press also helps against Blissey, as max defense bp does 41% minimum, allowing this raging bolt to be better against stall.
252 Def Raging Bolt Body Press vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 272-320 (41.7 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Ngl i feel the same way with AV. Thats why ive been using AV Moltres-Galar semi frequently with decent success.
Moltres-Galar @ Assault Vest
Ability: Berserk
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 120 HP / 252 SpA / 136 Spe
Modest Nature
- Snarl
- U-turn
- Fiery Wrath
- Hurricane
Not only do you manage to do solid damage against something like Glowking, but you can take a lot of special hits. Snarl might seem weird, but it really punishes any fairies switching in with the -1 SpA, and can break Iron Moth's substitute while eliminating the potential fiery dance boost.
Forcing out Blissey has come up in 3 games so far. It's also less committal than Tera Blast to break through Ting Lu and Iron Treads (your 2 best checks). You still generally have to Tera if you want to flip the matchup but it isn't a blank move without it. I pair it with booster speed, calm mind Iron Crown to wear down their shared checks and sweep.
Also Raging Bolts 4th move options suck anyway.
Fair warning, I'm a 1600's scrub, none of these games have been at the highest level or anything.
Actually, now that you bring it up, what's the actual team in question?
Would Snarl break the substitute, considering Sound moves normally go around it? Hitting around it can have advantages but this probably matters more if it lets Moltres win through the Sub rather than remove and debuff for another teammate.
Light Screen Mola is funny. Light Screen Zapdos got like #2 on ladder when Kyu was gone, Light Screen OP?
aurora veil+glowking when
The bane of every special attacker, glowking AV²
252 hp, 252+ spdef, aurora veil and assault vest, let's see you break through thi-
The opposing Kyurem used Dragon Dance.
"Now I am become +1, the destroyer of balance builds."
Anyhow i dont particularly like posting in this thread. But no slowpoke is infact spitting. Those are pot shots and wanna know smth? Those are sweeping statements wanna know what sweeping statements i can make abou sv? Its offense hell or that its a broken checks broken wasteland. But tiers are more nuanced than that. Also slowpoke doesnt need to show you respect when youre taking potshots at the tier they and i main. So if you really wanna know how ss is rn go play it! The way a meta was 2 years ago isnt indicative of how it is now. And i would say svs knock off is far more impactful. So like genuinely bring actual arguments of why ss is "bad" instead of the copy and paste garbage thats spewed in echo chambers.
So from what i'm getting at from statements like this, could you say that "SS OU sucks because your only progress is Knock Off and Future Sight" isn't too far off from "GSC is Stall", yeah?
Mhm yea i mean pult sball spdef drops and such are good ways of making progress but they are not the only way at all.
I don't care if Slowpoke respects me or not, it's an internet forum lol, but what I will point out is hypocrisy when making a moral claim that 'respect goes both ways.'
Make those 'sweeping statements' about gen 9 if you want. People make sweeping statements about SV like that all the time, far more than about SS. In this very thread, you can find an example in almost every page. This is totally fine - it's their opinion and I'm not gonna act like they're a bad person because they made a negative generalisation about a tier I personally like. What's strange is how unreasonably threatened you, Slowpoke, and some gen 8 fans seem to be about what I said. What do you even want me to do? Take it back? Write a letter of apology? Frankly, I do not believe I did anything wrong and do not care about how you feel about my opinion.
What I would appreciate is challenging the merits of my argument instead of trying to sneak in some clever snark and thinly veiled personal insults. I would not mind engaging in a civil discussion, preferably in DMs, about how the metagame has supposedly changed. I understand that gen 8 gets a lot of hate (though less than gen 9, and you don't see most gen 9 fans calling people out like this but whatever). However, if you feel it necessary to counter general anti-gen 8 sentiment, then this approach was certainly the wrong way to do it.
Been enjoying 4 Attack Zama. More so than IDBP Zama at least. Just feels nice, and consistent. Not to mention everybody prepares mostly for IDBP meaning you can occasionally nab a surprise KO with the extra attack investment + Tera. Far more splashable too imo. Still feel like the Dog is too much for the tier. Even with everyone over preparing for it. Idk, what do you guys think?
I tried 4 attack Zama, but it isn't for me. I tend to use ID Zama with Roar as a phaser. It feels better as a glue mon. Without the phasing, it probably wouldn't feel as nice to me. Phasing and priority are just really important with all the accelerated setup sweepers.
That said, I don't think it's really a problem. You put that on a team and then it gets a bit awkward if you wanted to fit Tusk. Most teams have decent answer in Fighting STAB. I find 4 attacks Zama to be fine, but nothing special. 120 attack is good, not great. 138 speed is great, but still slower than Pult and D-speed. Investing Tera to get a surprise KO is generally only worth it if you get more than one with that mon or you take out a key defensive piece. You can possibly tear a team open with 4 attacks Zama, but it's fairly easy to distinguish the sets. You probably know within the first or maybe second attack.
Speaking of 4-Attacks Zama, I am noticing that top players are experimenting a bit more on Stellar Tera with a few of the common all-out-attackers like the aforementioned Zamazenta and recently Weavile on Xavgb's OLT team. I find these uses of Stellar Tera to be quite cool, as I generally haven't seen Stellar Tera used too much outside of the Contrary mons. Even most of the all-out-attackers typically run different Tera Types like Fighting in Deo-S's case.
I did see Blimax mention in a recent video how top players have been cracking the code on what makes a good Stellar Tera mon and I'm curious as to what the criteria is. In Blimax's video, he ran it on Gouging Fire, which made sense since that Pokemon could like the temporary burst damage on both Outrage and Flare Blitz in certain scenarios. I'm wondering if other DD Pokemon like Dragonite or Roaring Moon can use the extra burst damage Stellar Provides on certain attacks to get past their counters. I think Roaring Moon would even appreciate how Stellar Tera preserves its Sucker Punch resistance for the Kingambit match-up. Other all-out-attackers like Iron Valiant seem like they could use Stellar Tera to decent effect. The craziest use I've seen in recent times is using it on Amoongus for a one-time boost to Foul Play in order to KO Ogerpon Wellspring while maintaining its base typing. I'm curious if there are any other mons with use-cases for Stellar Tera that anyone has been trying.
I did see Blimax mention in a recent video how top players have been cracking the code on what makes a good Stellar Tera mon and I'm curious as to what the criteria is. In Blimax's video, he ran it on Gouging Fire, which made sense since that Pokemon could like the temporary burst damage on both Outrage and Flare Blitz in certain scenarios. I'm wondering if other DD Pokemon like Dragonite or Roaring Moon can use the extra burst damage Stellar Provides on certain attacks to get past their counters. I think Roaring Moon would even appreciate how Stellar Tera preserves its Sucker Punch resistance for the Kingambit match-up. Other all-out-attackers like Iron Valiant seem like they could use Stellar Tera to decent effect. The craziest use I've seen in recent times is using it on Amoongus for a one-time boost to Foul Play in order to KO Ogerpon Wellspring while maintaining its base typing. I'm curious if there are any other mons with use-cases for Stellar Tera that anyone has been trying.
I too tried to experiment with Tera stellar. Most of mine were failures. I tried this thing with Weather Ball sets because you can trigger multiple Stellar at once. They were always too inconsistent, at least when trying to proc multiple Weather Ball types. In theory, you can run Glowking on a Sun or Rain team. Or maybe even some Ttar set. But none of the teams I made were nearly as consistent as normal Sun or Rain teams.
I also tried Stellar Wake, but it seems to prefer just brute forcing with double STAB.
I'm glad top players are figuring this out, though. I have always felt there was at least a little something there.
Personally, while I see the appeal for Tera Stellar on a number of the mons you mentioned, I don't think DD Dragonite would be a good fit since a lot of its viability hinges on its strong Extreme Speed, and Tera Stellar means it will only have 1 boosted Extreme Speed, which would ruin a lot of the reason to use Dragonite.
I definitely see the point to using Tera Stellar on Roaring Moon as Corviknight pretty much isn't a check anymore to it when it Teras.
+1 252 Atk Protosynthesis Tera Stellar Roaring Moon Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 302-356 (75.6 - 89.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Knock Off vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 153-180 (38.3 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
This is a guaranteed 2HKO. Retaining a resistance to Kingambit's Sucker Punch and Raging Bolt's Thunderclap would also be a plus of using Tera Stellar on Roaring Moon.
If Raging Bolt goes into Tera Bug, Earthquake from a Tera Stellar Roaring Moon still does good chip, which would be enough to revenge Bolt with Offensive Lando-T's Stone Edge assuming it doesn't miss.
+1 252 Atk Protosynthesis Tera Stellar Roaring Moon Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tera Bug Raging Bolt: 144-170 (36.8 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Roaring Moon still getting a boost to its attacks if forced out by Whirlwind or Red Card is helpful if you try to sweep without your Booster Energy boost.
Tera Stellar Weavile obviously has its positives with it having a very high chance of OHKOing Corviknight after SR.
+2 252 Atk Tera Stellar Weavile Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 346-412 (86.7 - 103.2%) -- approx. 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
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Zama is dumb, busted, and too much for the tier. But since it “checks” other broken shit like Kingcheap and Ogerbroad, we’ve convinced ourselves it is healthy.
Oh sheesh. Raging Bolt is bad enough now we have extra fat counter-sets running around?
Seconded.
Not sure what Walking Wake’s value could be outside of sun. Without sun it’s honestly just a Keldeo without CM that instead loses to Kingambit. I guess could try booster Energy SpA but it’s probably too weak without the Specs to break anything.
I find Zamazenta to be a fair and balanced mon. It is top tier and needs to be respected in the builder, but I don't think it is the one of the biggest teambuilding constraints in the meta, which would be Kingambit and Gliscor. Sure, 4 Attacks Zama has different checks than the Iron Defense set, but it achieves different things with the snowball potential removed. I have no clout, but I agree with Finchinator that the meta is close to being balanced. With one or 2 more bans, the meta may be in a really good place.
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