A lot of people wanting to shape the meta through bans instead of using them for what they're for: eliminating broken or uncompetitive stuff. A meta is the result of what pokemons/moves/abilities are strong, it's not something that should be tried to control.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
Okidogi is so fucking fun. For those of you that have used funniest dog, what are your favorite sets for him?
I've been using a Bulk Up set in grassy terrain for awhile now, it feels soooooo good and he just sits on every single Zama to exist. Once Gilscor goes Ice Punch value will go way down and I will embrace the Gunk Shot life style.
I've been using a Bulk Up set in grassy terrain for awhile now, it feels soooooo good and he just sits on every single Zama to exist. Once Gilscor goes Ice Punch value will go way down and I will embrace the Gunk Shot life style.
Yes, but if it doesn't get the ban which is very possible with the way things are going we jump into tera blast anyway, which I really don't think gliscor is the surefire ban people think it is with the way kyurem went
Playing devil's advocate here, but gliscor is also the reason balance is good because it fits so well onto these balance structures as well as general offense/bulky offense since it provides a lot to balance, which might mean getting rid of gliscor makes those balance teams worse...
So balance would hurt and benefit from gliscor being gone all at once in practice I would think, so nothing would change.
I'm unsure if gliscor going is even the move to be honest, because while sd sets are obnoxious and hard to switch into, it REALLY hates being forced into tera and is one of the few things balance has to work with into this meta to help it into offense. So honestly i'm not sure if gliscor needs to go as removing it might put us in a worse spot potentially as far as trying to make every team style viable and balancing around all of them, because gliscor is one of the few things helping balance right now. So i'm not sure if it will be banned and i'm kinda iffy on whether removing it is a good thing or not.
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I don't think dropping Ice Punch will necessarily be a good move. There's still Great Tusk and Landorus-Therian, both of which have higher usage than Gliscor. Gunk Shot's poor accuracy is also a big downside.
Ice Punch is still absolutely great for both Lando and Tusk (the first of which does not want to switch on guard dog, especially for the threat of Ice Punch) but the raw power of Gunk Shot makes landing kills on Zapdos and Moltres infinitely easier. No contact means you won't have the worst time of your life when they decide to come in to bait Flame Body or similar. My only goal is to make those two birds suffer for as long as he is on the field.
Man, some people on here are more about being pro-ban Gliscor cheerleaders than actually interested in discussing the nuances with the mon. I see what some of you are doing talking around the counterplay discussion. But if you don't actually have the arguments on your side figured out, it will just be brought up in the actual suspect and you won't have a clear answer for it.
Counterplay is to hit it. Hit it really hard! Unironically you just have to hit it so hard that it’s Passive recovery even with Protect doesn’t cut it.
Personally was hoping for a Tera Blast suspect / quickban before Gliscor, but meh. I don't even know if I hate the move all that much anymore since I've been playing around with a few "healthy" users. Tera Stellar Enamorus for example, is an awesome Tera punisher that can function a bit like Zamazenta in the late game with a choice scarf, punishing a lot of the greedy Tera usage & reverse sweeping. Tera Blast Ghost Dragapult is also pretty awesome as a general breaker. Some other guys like Serperior also get completely fucked by a Tera Blast ban, which might be bad for some players who use that Pokemon as a check to Ogerpon-W. A larger conversation may needed about this move and whether the healthy users are worth preserving.
I would like Volcarona back, but I'm also just fine banning the few non-Gholdengo Pokemon that may have been pushed over the edge by its absence like Darkrai (though I also don't find that to be too busted) and I guess Kyurem if players continue to complain about that (been finding it to be a bit underwhelming....). Seen some players are gassing up Eleki but I still think this mon will be dicks unless you do some shit like idk, punish Tera Water from the opponent's Landorus-T as they Terastalize to check Quaquaval or use it as a dual screener on HO teams. In retrospect, I think banning Volcarona was a mistake - I only voted ban because Gouging Fire wasn't banned - but what's done is done. I doubt it will be revisited for some time.
I would like Volcarona back, but I'm also just fine banning the few non-Gholdengo Pokemon that may have been pushed over the edge by its absence like Darkrai (though I also don't find that to be too busted) and I guess Kyurem if players continue to complain about that (been finding it to be a bit underwhelming....). Seen some players are gassing up Eleki but I still think this mon will be dicks unless you do some shit like idk, punish Tera Water from the opponent's Landorus-T as they Terastalize to check Quaquaval or use it as a dual screener on HO teams. In retrospect, I think banning Volcarona was a mistake - I only voted ban because Gouging Fire wasn't banned - but what's done is done. I doubt it will be revisited for some time.
I used Tera Bug Dogi on a shitty team that I made not too long ago which didn't have any real checks to Great Tusk. It could go ham sometimes, but lost more to Kingambit that I would've liked it to.
SD Gliscor counterplay has depended on mainly 2 things from personal experience; Has it Tera'd and what attacks is it using? What checks SD Gliscor largely varies on what 2 attacks it runs, and that varies more than I was expecting. EQ, Knock, Facade, heck, even Ice Fang I saw a few times. And the combos of them are just all over the place. EQ+Knock, EQ+Ice Fang, Knock+Facade, EQ+Facade.
Usually, it's also going to be Tera Normal, but again, not set in stone. You're more than welcome to swap for a defensive Tera like Water, Dragon, and even less obvious picks like Ghost and Fairy.
Stuff like Corv and Skarm can just ID to tank the hits, but they tend to be PP stalled from what i've spectated. If it's Tera Normal, just about any Fighting STAB means it's curtains for the Scorpion. Freeze Dry Kyurem topples base Gliscor as well as Teras Water and Dragon, but in order for that to even matter, you need to actually beat Gliscor with the type it Teras into after the fact. Sinistcha can Strenght Sap vs EQ+Facade variants, but Knock Off or Ice Fang variants make the Hot Leaf Juice a fruitless endeavor. Zamazenta can Iron Defense past Gliscor's damage, but one Tera Ghost and you can forget about the Dog. Dragapult can Hex it back where it came from, but Tera Normal means Ghost STAB is worthless.
Some other peeps also pointed out that there's another issue with SD Gliscor; Longevity. It's a set up sweeper with a defensive backbone. Most sweepers get one, maybe two chances to sweep. Gliscor gets forced out once, and can just heal up and try again later. So, even if you force it out the first or second time, which isn't too unreasonable i'd say, you'd still probably have to deal with the damn thing later. This isn't to say Gliscor's borderline immortal. That'd be a reach. However, the longevity issue is real. You have a sweeper immune to all hazards except Stealth Rocks, which are neutral, a Knock Off "resistance" since it doesn't care about losing it's Toxic Orb post-Poison, a status immunity, so no Will o Wisp burns, Static or Flame Body. I know some peeps say "Just hit it hard" with strong neutral STAB moves as a way to deter set ups, which kind of depends on what is actually dishing the hard hits, and what the Gliscor is packing in the back.
maybe someone smarter than me can "erm, akchualeh" this comment and find some decent answers and contribute to the "Help us not lose to SD Gliscor" cause, but idk.
Usually, it's also going to be Tera Normal, but again, not set in stone. You're more than welcome to swap for a defensive Tera like Water, Dragon, and even less obvious picks like Ghost and Fairy.
Stuff like Corv and Skarm can just ID to tank the hits, but they tend to be PP stalled from what i've spectated. If it's Tera Normal, just about any Fighting STAB means it's curtains for the Scorpion. Freeze Dry Kyurem topples base Gliscor as well as Teras Water and Dragon, but in order for that to even matter, you need to actually beat Gliscor with the type it Teras into after the fact. Sinistcha can Strenght Sap vs EQ+Facade variants, but Knock Off or Ice Fang variants make the Hot Leaf Juice a fruitless endeavor. Zamazenta can Iron Defense past Gliscor's damage, but one Tera Ghost and you can forget about the Dog. Dragapult can Hex it back where it came from, but Tera Normal means Ghost STAB is worthless.
Some other peeps also pointed out that there's another issue with SD Gliscor; Longevity. It's a set up sweeper with a defensive backbone. Most sweepers get one, maybe two chances to sweep. Gliscor gets forced out once, and can just heal up and try again later. So, even if you force it out the first or second time, which isn't too unreasonable i'd say, you'd still probably have to deal with the damn thing later. This isn't to say Gliscor's borderline immortal. That'd be a reach. However, the longevity issue is real. You have a sweeper immune to all hazards except Stealth Rocks, which are neutral, a Knock Off "resistance" since it doesn't care about losing it's Toxic Orb post-Poison, a status immunity, so no Will o Wisp burns, Static or Flame Body. I know some peeps say "Just hit it hard" with strong neutral STAB moves as a way to deter set ups, which kind of depends on what is actually dishing the hard hits, and what the Gliscor is packing in the back.
maybe someone smarter than me can "erm, akchualeh" this comment and find some decent answers and contribute to the "Help us not lose to SD Gliscor" cause, but idk.
The best defensive checks to SD Gliscor that can switch into any of the combination of 2 of Knock Off, Facade, and Earthquake are Iron Defense Zamazenta and Dondozo, and Dondozo is just not good in this meta and easily exploitable due to how passive it is.
The main counterplay to SD Gliscor is to hit it harder than it can hit you back or block its Poison Heal recovery, the former of which is dependent on which 2 attacking moves it has. The problem is that most of the mons that can muscle past Gliscor don't have much longevity, which is the main reason people want to suspect it. This isn't like pre-Gen 8 metas when you can easily tech for Gliscor with Hidden Power Ice.
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I have used av okidogi in uu when it rose and it instantly became one of my favorite pokemon in the tier but I have never really thought about using it ou due to it being...too slow without having many ways to boost its speed (ban booster energy lol). But maybe I will give it a try.
Also maybe it is because I am not super good at the game [low ladder :,)] but I have never personally had that many problems with gliscor. It does have a lot of good checks/counters and due to the fact that going tera normal gives it no resistances (besides ghost immunity which is pretty good) I wouldn't call it broken especially with kyurem in the tier (not saying kyurem is an absolute counter for gliscor). Please don't bully me too hard lol
216 SpA Kyurem Freeze-Dry vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Tera Normal Gliscor: 100-118 (28.4 - 33.5%) -- possible 5HKO
I tend to overly focus on subtect since that's the set I feel is banworthy. Maybe dragon dance mixed Kyurems do better.
Gliscor couldn't care less about the above damage. Facade has 32 pp and will comfortably break it down. This was the standard suggested spread for Gliscor so it isn't niche, and 216 SpA is normal to get the 101hp substitutes.
I really REALLY like Okidogi's BU Guard Dog sets. Old school Drain Punch/Ice Punch/Thunder Punch shenanigans and you just run away with games out of the blue.
On an unrelated note
I used to think subtect
was a fraud set and DD was the only banworthy set. Then I stopped using 
(tanks freeze dry easily and ohkos through sub/tect with Hyperspace Fury), and I have realized that this thing really does just take all your PP. I have to fight for my life vs this thing now. Even if you force it out, if you can't keep rocks up (or sometimes, even if you can) it just comes back in later and stalls some more. Very annoying mon. Also, DD is still broken because I refuse to use 
in a meta with a trillion ground, dark, and water types, and sometimes I build teams without 
. Mixed DD is annoying, too, because AV 
can't use Tickle. Honestly though, even though I think it's probably broken, I don't think I've lost to
since it's been unbanned. Usually I just tera some mon to deal with it if need be and then that's that. Also, 
beats every set that isn't Fire TB (rare). Air Balloon 
or 
or 
or whatever also wall temporarily. Stuff like Assault Vest 
works too. You can also use Red Card 
if it gets out of hand (applies to any sweeper) (someone make a mono-Red Card team lol) (wait do multihit moves bypass Disguise? uh oh).Mimikyu (F) @ Red Card
Ability: Disguise
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Play Rough
- Destiny Bond
- Thunder Wave
- Will-O-Wisp
Something like this could be a good support maybe. I should throw a team together for this (on an alt because I'm actually climbing on my main again). Could be cool paired with a spex hexer (
/
). Note: can also use Trick (in which case equip scarf and probably max attack). Thief is also an option for the Red Card set to nab an item from whoever gets switched in, or you can run Trick to counter opponent Trick. 
Defensive checks:
(Bulk Up + Brave Bird): ID Body Press gets PP stalled by Gliscor, particularly if paired with a Ghost type, so you need the Bulk Up Bird. But it’s worth noting that if Gliscor is paired with rocks and a good Corv counter like Ghold, it can simply knock Corv and wear down its limited roost PPs over the game.
ID checks most SD Glisc sets once per game. Keep in mind that in this interaction, Gliscor will knock your lefties, get some chip on you, then freely switch to a hardcounter like physdef Ghold or Sinistcha while you’re left with a crippled Zama for the rest of the game. So Zama only really functions as a late game emergency check if Gliscor’s ghost teammates are gone.
Beats standard SD Gliscor with Curse or Body Press + Avalanche. However it will be taking a knock, which makes it quite exploitable given that Gliscor is typically paired with hazards.Set specific defensive checks exist, such as
for Knock Facade, but this requires scouting.Offensive checks:
The most notable offensive check since it’s quite strong against the general team structures that SD Glisc finds itself on. Consequently, the best play for these teams is often to simply commit Tera Normal to take out Kyurem.
Beyond strong Water STAB, it can pack Encore to make things annoying for Gliscor.
Not as common as the former two but it’s an option (if you’re cool).Niche stuff:
(Encore): Physdef Clef is only 3HKO’d by +2 Facade, doesn’t worry about Knock, and can Encore Gliscor to give its team some breathing room while scouting the Gliscor set. Probably a good tech in the Glisc meta.Overall it seems that Gliscor’s most splashable checks lack the longevity to handle it long term. Its ability to cripple mons like Zama and Corv with Knock and outlast them is notable. I personally feel it’s worth a suspect.
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Overall it seems that Gliscor’s most splashable checks lack the longevity to handle it long term. Its ability to cripple mons like Zama and Corv with Knock and outlast them is notable. I personally feel it’s worth a suspect.
That's only if it's Unaware as Magic Guard is cleanly 2HKOed at +2 by Tera Normal, which is common right now.
+2 0 Atk Tera Normal Gliscor Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 253-298 (64.2 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Not counting Tera unless otherwise stated.
If we bring Tera into the equation the list of checks changes greatly. I specifically mentioned it for Kyurem because that’s the most advantageous play for the SD Gliscor teams and will happen very frequently.
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I am going to talk in generalities here because replying to everyone individually will make the thread messy. First of all, thank you for actually discussing it this time. It seems that the most common routes mentioned are to hit it hard, which is not always as helpful for slower bulky teams, and Dozo or ID mons. Dozo is basically just a stall mon these days.
I have not talked about ID Zama specifically, but I have talked about other ID mons like Corv or even niche things that may be possible like Orthworm. (Please don't derail the topic over that again.) Because Tera Normal is the most common Tera on Gliscor sets, BP is an ideal tool to deal with it. The fighting coverage can also be good against other threats like Gambit and Kyurem.
I feel this makes a good combination to things that can punish Gliscor before Tera Normal like Hex or Ice Beam. Same with having an answer for the SD sets and the passive sets. Like a team that had Hatt or non ID Corv, which could match up well into the passive sets, could also use something like Zama to punish the SD sets.
Before somebody talks restrictive teambuilding with this, I just want to point out a few things. First of all, I will reiterate that Fighting move are really common in the tier for Gambit. Next, there are a lot of mons commonly seen in OU that can be chosen like Corv, Skarm and Zama. But also some things that counter certain variants like Gambit, Garg, or Sinistcha that would naturally be on some some teams. I feel it is more a matter of mixing and matching than an actual lack of options to deal with SD Gliscor.
One thing nobody mentioned was Encore. Encore on a faster mon completely counters Gliscor. Especially the SD sets. Valiant and Ogerpon variants are the main ones. There are also niche mons like A-tails or Hawlucha and slower base speed mons that can be faster depending on setup and/or Gliscor's speed investment like D-nite, Tinkaton, or Quaq. You might think that Gliscor's longevity means it can just come back in later. However, this is still a loss in momentum. It is also often a win to get a setup mon like Gliscor reset.
The Gliscor set with that calc is the heavy special defense invested with no speed. Kyurem will be faster and will at least threaten to hit the Gliscor first. If Kyurem Subs, it will be faster than the Gliscor set you mentioned. It won't be poisoned and it will scout. It will see what Gliscor does. Either Gliscor has to utilize the team's Tera or switch out, possibly after a Protect. If Kyrem is DD, though, the special defensive sets get 2HKO's by Icicle Spear, Scale Shot, or even a neutral Tera Blast after Tera. You can also be 2HKO'd by double STAB IC or SS without even a DD. And if it is Specs, you can just be 1 shot by Tera Dragon Draco even with Sp. Def investment. Specs Tera Ice Blizzard also has about a 43% shot to OHKO even Tera Normal Gliscor.
So it is pretty dangerous to use Gliscor to scout the Kyurem set. In general, Kyurem is scarier to scout early game because it combines the threat of immediate power from the special wallbreaking sets with the wildcard of a potential DD sweeper. But after getting forced out or phased out once, you generally know what set you are dealing with. Gliscor is perhaps a bit more dangerous over the long haul because of Poison Heal.
If you feel like you can counter Sub/Tect with a Tera Gliscor specifically, that's maybe fine depending on your game plan. But you probably shouldn't be doing that as your first interaction. And you definitely shouldn't be hard switching into it.
I have not talked about ID Zama specifically, but I have talked about other ID mons like Corv or even niche things that may be possible like Orthworm. (Please don't derail the topic over that again.) Because Tera Normal is the most common Tera on Gliscor sets, BP is an ideal tool to deal with it. The fighting coverage can also be good against other threats like Gambit and Kyurem.
I feel this makes a good combination to things that can punish Gliscor before Tera Normal like Hex or Ice Beam. Same with having an answer for the SD sets and the passive sets. Like a team that had Hatt or non ID Corv, which could match up well into the passive sets, could also use something like Zama to punish the SD sets.
Before somebody talks restrictive teambuilding with this, I just want to point out a few things. First of all, I will reiterate that Fighting move are really common in the tier for Gambit. Next, there are a lot of mons commonly seen in OU that can be chosen like Corv, Skarm and Zama. But also some things that counter certain variants like Gambit, Garg, or Sinistcha that would naturally be on some some teams. I feel it is more a matter of mixing and matching than an actual lack of options to deal with SD Gliscor.
One thing nobody mentioned was Encore. Encore on a faster mon completely counters Gliscor. Especially the SD sets. Valiant and Ogerpon variants are the main ones. There are also niche mons like A-tails or Hawlucha and slower base speed mons that can be faster depending on setup and/or Gliscor's speed investment like D-nite, Tinkaton, or Quaq. You might think that Gliscor's longevity means it can just come back in later. However, this is still a loss in momentum. It is also often a win to get a setup mon like Gliscor reset.
You are assuming very specific sets in a matchup with each other, which can be problematic in game since both mons have more set diversity than that. You are now specifically talking Tera Normal rather than any Tera, which is fine, but tends to be more vulnerable to ID/BP mons or other mons with Fighting moves that they may carry anyway for Gambit. Of course, another neutral Tera like Fairy might also work fine. Just not Water.
The Gliscor set with that calc is the heavy special defense invested with no speed. Kyurem will be faster and will at least threaten to hit the Gliscor first. If Kyurem Subs, it will be faster than the Gliscor set you mentioned. It won't be poisoned and it will scout. It will see what Gliscor does. Either Gliscor has to utilize the team's Tera or switch out, possibly after a Protect. If Kyrem is DD, though, the special defensive sets get 2HKO's by Icicle Spear, Scale Shot, or even a neutral Tera Blast after Tera. You can also be 2HKO'd by double STAB IC or SS without even a DD. And if it is Specs, you can just be 1 shot by Tera Dragon Draco even with Sp. Def investment. Specs Tera Ice Blizzard also has about a 43% shot to OHKO even Tera Normal Gliscor.
So it is pretty dangerous to use Gliscor to scout the Kyurem set. In general, Kyurem is scarier to scout early game because it combines the threat of immediate power from the special wallbreaking sets with the wildcard of a potential DD sweeper. But after getting forced out or phased out once, you generally know what set you are dealing with. Gliscor is perhaps a bit more dangerous over the long haul because of Poison Heal.
If you feel like you can counter Sub/Tect with a Tera Gliscor specifically, that's maybe fine depending on your game plan. But you probably shouldn't be doing that as your first interaction. And you definitely shouldn't be hard switching into it.
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With 
Gliscor suspect test coming up sometimes next month if we were to believe finch, i feel it is important to say, Kyurem being unbanned DOES NOT affect the viability of Gliscor. As weird as it sounds, gliscor is not weak to kyurem because most gliscor teams carry ways to beat kyurem, be it gking, garg, tinkaton, weavile, pult, whatever, and most of the time you are not going hard kyurem into gliscor in fear of knock or toxic. Yes you scare gliscor out but then it can tera and toxic or just switch into a favorable matchup. Besides the current most common gliscor set is max speed SD tera normal facade, which actually beats kyurem if kyurem decides to switch in. So kyurem doesnt actually hinder gliscor that much because of the team gliscor are used in and because of its best sets actually being able to beat kyurem with Tera.
One way i see this is like trying to use heatran as your clefable answer in gen 6-8 (without taunt), yea you can switch in and take no damage and probably scare it out but if the clefable thunder waves or calm minds vs you (two extremely common sets), heatran just loses 1v1. so if you want to beat clefable with heatran, you need taunt or a steel move which not every heatran uses. Yes theoretically heatran beats clef, but i dont think most will agree that heatran makes clef worse.
Gliscor suspect test coming up sometimes next month if we were to believe finch, i feel it is important to say, Kyurem being unbanned DOES NOT affect the viability of Gliscor. As weird as it sounds, gliscor is not weak to kyurem because most gliscor teams carry ways to beat kyurem, be it gking, garg, tinkaton, weavile, pult, whatever, and most of the time you are not going hard kyurem into gliscor in fear of knock or toxic. Yes you scare gliscor out but then it can tera and toxic or just switch into a favorable matchup. Besides the current most common gliscor set is max speed SD tera normal facade, which actually beats kyurem if kyurem decides to switch in. So kyurem doesnt actually hinder gliscor that much because of the team gliscor are used in and because of its best sets actually being able to beat kyurem with Tera.One way i see this is like trying to use heatran as your clefable answer in gen 6-8 (without taunt), yea you can switch in and take no damage and probably scare it out but if the clefable thunder waves or calm minds vs you (two extremely common sets), heatran just loses 1v1. so if you want to beat clefable with heatran, you need taunt or a steel move which not every heatran uses. Yes theoretically heatran beats clef, but i dont think most will agree that heatran makes clef worse.
Just going to voice my thoughts on Gliscor. I personally believe it’s too much for the tier, for a couple reasons.
Poison Heal combined with its typing basically makes Gliscor a pseudo-magic guard and regenerator Pokémon at the same time since it out heals Rocks with poison heal, poison heal giving amazing recovery with Protect, is immune to getting statused which is even better than magic guard since it avoids freeze and parahax, and is completely immune to spikes. This gives it amazing longevity and allows it to outlast a lot of its checks.
Other than those Pokémon you pretty much check Gliscor with immediate power. The problem with this is it either forces you to run ice types to OHKO it, (and no ice type enjoys switching into Gliscor) and everything else pretty much 2HKOes it, which allows Gliscor to trade health for toxic on the utility sets, or knock something in exchange for HP, which allows Gliscor to again outlast its checks.
Gliscor not only can do that but its utility toxic sets are still really strong. All of its switch-ins dislike knock and it becomes a Zamazenta check lmao. It takes advantage of the bulk to set up hazards multiple times a game, spread status and possibly pivot around with U-turn.
Again that’s just my take, take everything I say with a grain of salt since I am not very intelligent, happy discussion, keep everything friendly and good night.
Edit:
Poison Heal combined with its typing basically makes Gliscor a pseudo-magic guard and regenerator Pokémon at the same time since it out heals Rocks with poison heal, poison heal giving amazing recovery with Protect, is immune to getting statused which is even better than magic guard since it avoids freeze and parahax, and is completely immune to spikes. This gives it amazing longevity and allows it to outlast a lot of its checks.
The problem with these BP users into SD Scor is that it is easy to take advantage of these Pokémon. Zama just gets knocked and is easily just chipped with hazards, and the Balance teams Gliscor is on can just outright check it with something like a Sinistcha, while Corv and Skarm are very passive, get chipped by rocks and only have 8 roost PP. They also get taken advantage of with something like a Boots Pult that gets a free wisp or U-turn. Gambit Garg and Sinistcha all get chipped by hazards after Knock and Sinistcha does not like getting toxiced from the utility sets.
Other than those Pokémon you pretty much check Gliscor with immediate power. The problem with this is it either forces you to run ice types to OHKO it, (and no ice type enjoys switching into Gliscor) and everything else pretty much 2HKOes it, which allows Gliscor to trade health for toxic on the utility sets, or knock something in exchange for HP, which allows Gliscor to again outlast its checks.
Gliscor not only can do that but its utility toxic sets are still really strong. All of its switch-ins dislike knock and it becomes a Zamazenta check lmao. It takes advantage of the bulk to set up hazards multiple times a game, spread status and possibly pivot around with U-turn.
Again that’s just my take, take everything I say with a grain of salt since I am not very intelligent, happy discussion, keep everything friendly and good night.
Edit:
Lmao I know this is months late but the point of my post was not to say that the meta is good and that we should stop complaining about the meta, but more focus on the stuff that is more realistically going to be banned so stuff actually gets done.
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The gliscor with knock ice fang on its way to back to back kill my ghold and tusk because that's apparently a set:
People try not to forget weavile as a gliscor check challenge (Impossible)Defensive checks:
Set specific defensive checks exist, such as
Offensive checks:
Niche stuff:
Overall it seems that Gliscor’s most splashable checks lack the longevity to handle it long term. Its ability to cripple mons like Zama and Corv with Knock and outlast them is notable. I personally feel it’s worth a suspect.
In all seriousness weavile forces a switch or a tera though so it’s a solid offensive check, probably better than meow to be honest
I've seen some people say "Ice types" or "Triple Axel users" as a collective. Does that count?
Yes it does
Also while I do believe gliscor should be tested, i’m really not sure if doing so right now is the play or if removing it is either for the time being, simply for how much balance teams kinda need it