Metagame National Dex Metagame Discussion

[Dahness]

We do NOT need Spectrier running around. No thank you. Even if we consider that it can be pursuit trapped and outsped by some (mind you, SOME, Pokemon that are good) and that it struggles somewhat coverage wise....Spectrier would not be a good presence for the tier.

It would just bowl over teams way too much and too easily, especially when paired with other attackers that Kingambit would be tasked with taking on. And as awesome as Mandibuzz is it shouldn't suddenly have to rise to OU just to help you deny the monster that is Spectrier (who has draining kiss anyway which heavily threatens if not destroys your opponent after a boost.)

Spectrier doesn’t add anything positive to the metagame. It’s just another insanely powerful attacker that just makes defensive teams very hard to build (something we have taken steps to correct by freeing good Pokémon after banning Tera.)

Would 100% rather play a metagame with Landorus Incarnate than one with Spectrier.

I agree with this this fully.We don't need any new ubers running around, not even Darkrai.I think out of all the mons that we banned, the ones the council voted on are the only ones who could have a somewhat healthy presence.Let this meta marinate for a bit, give it some time, as i'm 100% sure not all of the newly unbanned mons will stay here.

While the idbp set is still a menace, its not as hellish as it once was.Without tera, zama simply cannot change out of its fighting type to sit on would be checks.I think its pressence is actually good, as we have added another great gambit into the fray.
My favorite mon to return.Hits hard, takes hits well but isn't speedy.Punching glove/pads sets have been doing great,lefties is good too, i am yet to try cb, but i think that set could be good too.With good support, i can see even the av set being good.
Z set is still very strong, while the specs set is good at making progress and denying hazzard removal from mons such as tusk, treads and the newly added Terapagos.Speaking of...
Already made a post on this guy, but i forsee he will be a great addition to a lot of team.Spinner with good special coverage that is surprinsingly tanky too and its great movepool means that it can the majority of the metagame hard.
I'm yet to try dengo, but as the unban post said, without tera, he isn't that annoying anymore.Great mon to have on balance and i bet scarf will still be very good.
Will probably be used as a meme mon again and some obscure stall team.
Very good and deals insane damage if positioned well, not gonna be that crazy anymore without tera dark and the fact that there are a lot of mons that keep it in check(Tusk, Lando, Mega Lop, Zama, Shifu and so on)

As for

 

[Epicgamergod69]

I agree with this this fully.We don't need any new ubers running around, not even Darkrai.I think out of all the mons that we banned, the ones the council voted on are the only ones who could have a somewhat healthy presence.Let this meta marinate for a bit, give it some time, as i'm 100% sure not all of the newly unbanned mons will stay here.

While the idbp set is still a menace, its not as hellish as it once was.Without tera, zama simply cannot change out of its fighting type to sit on would be checks.I think its pressence is actually good, as we have added another great gambit into the fray.
My favorite mon to return.Hits hard, takes hits well but isn't speedy.Punching glove/pads sets have been doing great,lefties is good too, i am yet to try cb, but i think that set could be good too.With good support, i can see even the av set being good.
Z set is still very strong, while the specs set is good at making progress and denying hazzard removal from mons such as tusk, treads and the newly added Terapagos.Speaking of...
Already made a post on this guy, but i forsee he will be a great addition to a lot of team.Spinner with good special coverage that is surprinsingly tanky too and its great movepool means that it can the majority of the metagame hard.
I'm yet to try dengo, but as the unban post said, without tera, he isn't that annoying anymore.Great mon to have on balance and i bet scarf will still be very good.
Will probably be used as a meme mon again and some obscure stall team.

As for
View attachment 689574

Live reaction (please free the bird I know it's probably semi controversial but it's not that bad man) almost forgot btw I personally like the specs set also I am in support of propaganda

 

[1234hjkl]

Live reaction (please free the bird I know it's probably semi controversial but it's not that bad man)

Since we're talking about forgotten unban can we get a status report on Gohan-Blanco Annihilape? While Rage Fist shenanigans can be a point of contempt and discussion the single fact it can't Tera out of his very exploitable weaknesses anymore to one of the many solid defensive types like Water, Fire, Fairy, etc should at least allow it to get a chance again, I believe it can have a place in NatDex, hell it can even have some positive effects like being a U/Flip Turn spam deterrent.

 

[burstslinky]

only started playing ndex after the vast majority of these guys got banned, but i gotta say this is the most fun ive had playing a metagame in a long, long time

z pult is cracked and is probably the new goat for climbing out of the trenches of low ladder, definitely my favorite mon thats been unbanned
pursuit + knock gambit is really good, and im curious if we'll start to see banded or non sd sets start to become popular in the future
melmetal i havent tried yet but i imagine its a pretty great defensive tool for teams
zama is zama he does what hes been doing but hes way easier to handle with no teras
terap is similar to melmetal but way more versatile and feels really cool both on defensive and offensive structures, and it being one of the best removals in the tier is a welcome addition

 

[mcfloats]

loving the unbans so far.. unban when

 

[Runo]

We should chill with the "Unban X" comments I think. Chances are that nothing is gonna get quicktested into this tier again after the slate OU Council just did. Love all of the current unbans but I don't think we need something like Iron Bundle, Mega Metagross, Solgaleo, Lugia, etc, etc ruining the show for right now until it's confirmed that we have achieved a fairly balanced state.

 

[Sputnik]

I agree with everything that Runo just said, however I would also like to hear about what the council is considering testing first. Many things were picked for suspect testing and I imagine the council is discussing how to tackle all of these suspects while this new meta develops simultaneously, but I would also be curious to know if there are any mons that the council would like to prioritize taking a look at first.

 

[Patar136]

We gotta show some patience me thinks. Especially when they already did a godsend my freeing a bunch of mons that were locked away in Ubers. Getting Kingambit and others freed feels like the council is listening to us and it is very appreciated.

While it would be interesting to test some potential drops from Espathra, Darkrai, Baxcalibur, Magearna, Mega Metagross, Palafin, Roaring Moon, Annihilape, Landorus Incarnate, Lugia etc…. We gotta wait for our metagame to stabilize. And when we establish some stability we can look at exploring some of these Pokemon in the future. Some probably don’t need to be tested but some could be.

 

[Magcargo]

We should chill with the "Unban X" comments I think. Chances are that nothing is gonna get quicktested into this tier again after the slate OU Council just did. Love all of the current unbans but I don't think we need something like Iron Bundle, Mega Metagross, Solgaleo, Lugia, etc, etc ruining the show for right now until it's confirmed that we have achieved a fairly balanced state.

To achieve a balanced state, we need to cast away the needless bans that have been the reason for the chaos we were in previously. Unbanning more Pokemon will lead to a better metagame. We have seen this first hand, with Pokemon like Kingambit, Gholdengo, Zamazenta, and Terapagos making this tier more diverse and balanced than ever before. I am confident that unbanning more Pokemon like Landorus-I, Magearna, Darkrai, Ogerpon-Hearthflame, and Baxcalibur will be the way forward to an ideal metagame.

 

[Moyashi]

To achieve a balanced state, we need to cast away the needless bans that have been the reason for the chaos we were in previously. Unbanning more Pokemon will lead to a better metagame. We have seen this first hand, with Pokemon like Kingambit, Gholdengo, Zamazenta, and Terapagos making this tier more diverse and balanced than ever before. I am confident that unbanning more Pokemon like Landorus-I, Magearna, Darkrai, Ogerpon-Hearthflame, and Baxcalibur will be the way forward to an ideal metagame.

The reason the unban pokemon like Melmetal, Kingambit, Zama and Terapagos have resulted in improvement for the tier is because they bring good and helpful qualities for teambuilding without being overbearing themselves now that Tera is gone, and thus has helped to offer some stability. What good does unbanning Landorus-I, Darkrai or Ogerpon-H accomplish when they almost entirely flatten Balance (they're more difficult to handle post Tera if anything now that there isn't an emergency panic button). They don't really add anything to the tier that I would call positive.

Anyways to get off the topic of unbans for now and to redirect to a more relevant topic,


Terapagos has seem some pretty solid play across ladder since it was freed yesterday, and there seems to be a good amount of experimentation with it so far. I've seen Rapid Spin+CM+2A, CM+Rock Polish+2A, 3A+Rapid Speed, 4A, Toxic+Rapid Spin+2A. Specifically for those running this set however,

Terapagos-Terastal @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Tera Shell
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Tera Starstorm
- Flamethrower
- Ice Beam

This set is pretty good right now, alongside the CM Rapid Spin or Meteor Beam shenanigans people have been using on ladder. It's got a great offensive stat, almost OHKOing Mega Medicham from full, a colourful coverage letting it hit both Landorus-T (the one who sets) and Gholdengo (the one who blocks), as well as other crap like Ferrothorn, Garchomp, Gliscor, Tornadus-T etc etc - the only downside is that you can't hit Heatran, but this can definitely be made up for with Pokemon like Raging Bolt, Ogerpon-W and Landorus-T, all three of which synergise pretty well with Terapagos.

I'm curious if there's a preference for Modest vs Timid. I ask because I was running Timid before but I have seen Modest. Is there any specific calcs where a difference is made?

 

[burstslinky]

Terapagos has seem some pretty solid play across ladder since it was freed yesterday, and there seems to be a good amount of experimentation with it so far. I've seen Rapid Spin+CM+2A, CM+Rock Polish+2A, 3A+Rapid Speed, 4A, Toxic+Rapid Spin+2A. Specifically for those running this set however,

I'm curious if there's a preference for Modest vs Timid. I ask because I was running Timid before but I have seen Modest. Is there any specific calcs where a difference is made?

modest lele and dnite are probably the main ones you miss but aside from that its not much
i definitely think modest is just better since you dont really miss the speed that much and i just prefer the dmg

 

[omar]

I agree with everything that Runo just said, however I would also like to hear about what the council is considering testing first. Many things were picked for suspect testing and I imagine the council is discussing how to tackle all of these suspects while this new meta develops simultaneously, but I would also be curious to know if there are any mons that the council would like to prioritize taking a look at first.

We haven't really discussed the order of unbans yet. The plan right now is to release a survey soon to gauge support for the slated mons that ended up as suspect tests and decide the order from there. As always we will also be surveying enjoyment and perceived balance alongside any pokemon that become problematic after the tier's settled a bit. Expect tiering action to start after the survey concludes.

Also want to include this as a PSA: Regarding the slate, we were extremely lenient with the pokemon that were slated, so the inclusion of any pokemon, for example Baxcalibur and Ogerpon-H does not mean we are looking to suspect test them, and it is extremely unlikely that we will perform any tiering action in the immediate future on them or any other pokemon that were voted to stay ubers. If you wish to make a case for any other pokemon that you believe should be suspect tested, then feel free to suggest it in the open section for the survey, please do not clutter this or any other thread with requests to unban pokemon.

 

[thebestever543]

I just want to share some sets I think will be good.
Pretty strong set, pads obviously ignores common switch ins that would punish you. Ex: thorn, zap, molt, helmet lando etc. Speed and Coverage make this thing a great pivot, hope you will all give this set a try.

Meowscarada @ Protective Pads
Ability: Protean
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flower Trick
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Triple Axel/Low Kick

Meow A-

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Tera Bagels B+

Terapagos-Terastal @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Tera Shell
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Tera Starstorm
- Earth Power/Flamethrower
- Ice Beam

I really like this pokemon, can cover so many Pokemon in the tier, can spin very well vs Pult and Dengo (though not the best scout for both since preserving your ability is what allows you to check so many Pokemon). Very good anti-offense tech but I also think it has a place on ho. Some people have already experimented with screens which sounds interesting. I think it can be difficult to fit on teams but overall very solid pokemon. Last thing I’ll say is that ice beam + Ep/Flame is the most consistent set. You have to run IB for Gliscor and Dragapult, Earth Power covers other steels allowing you to clear hazards in exchanges with opposing hazard setters. Flame is Ferro, EP is for Tran. Look at your team and decide, most teams struggle switching into Tran so I think EP is probably better. (S/o to discord for correcting me).

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Melm S- tier

This shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone. This guy can do anything and excel at it. Choice Band, AV, 3a + T wave, 2a protect. Despite having no reliable recovery, you can heal back most of your hp just through para flinching and protect. As well as the ability to win so many trades, you force a lot of things out.

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Pult S-

Similar to Melm, can run anything and do it well. It’s true that there are a lot of things that look like they’d be trouble for Pult but many have opted to run wisp on their dd sets to neutralize gambit and other threatening attackers like Melm and Tusk. Support Hex/U-Turn + Status + Filler is a really good set. In other tiers Dragapul has been able to function as a screens setter with curse, sub disable is another possible set. Extremely versatile pokemon. Ngl Specs is nearly as strong as dd, when the meta settles he should be the first one suspected.

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Zapdos A+

I think Zap has made a good comeback, just dont use Defog please. 3a roost sets are so potent, 2a + twave/toxic is also good. Never a bad mu for Zapdos, phys def still checks a wide range of pokemon as well as non toxic Melm which is very important. SpDef with toxic could be experimented to check Specs Pult, Dengo, Val, Volc, Bolt (kinda fake check).

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Ting-Lu A+

This seems fairly obviously, we just dropped a bunch of ghost types in the tier, as well as gambit who Tint Lu could trade okay verses. There are a plethora of special attackers you can cover in one slot, we may even see more offensive sets appear to deal with as many with one set. One of the better DD pult checks but still hindered by Wisp, otherwise this guy is a monster and it’s the perfect meta for him to shine.

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Gholdengo A+

Offers a lot of useful traits in the builder, can be very threatening offensively with Z sets and (fight, steel, ghost) choiced with trick. Balloon is one of the better items, especially on ho in order to spin block vs tusk/treads/Terapagos (with EP). You also sit on clod forever which is pretty fucked up, stall will have to adapt by running flame or something. I think Ghold is balanced rn, i still hate this guy tho.

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Closing thoughts: I know I’ve rambled and this is a pretty sloppy post I am just jotting down what comes to mind. Meta is very similar to Gen 8 but we have more versatile options for offense and balance seems to finally be good again. Personally I really enjoy playing and building rn, I think the future is looking bright for ndou. Okay thanks for reading this shitty post, have fun

 

[Magcargo]

Unsure if this niche will actually last, but Terapagos is a nice Ice Beam option for gliscor. Modest Ice Beam deals over 90% to Spdef scor, OHKOing it if it opts to run speed to outspeed Raging Bolt, and unlike other Ice Beamers, its not weak to Kingambit / Mega-ttar's pursuit.

Speaking of which, SD Gliscor might be very good now with Kingambit's Pursuit support to get rid of some of its main checks like Mega Latias. There actually aren't many high-tier Ice beamers in this tier to pressure it rn.

 

[Moisture99]

This mon has been flying under the radar, imo the scariest fighting type and it's not close. It feels really, really good right now, Booster SD in particular (CC/Knock/Ice Punch or Spirit Break). Looking at common offensive structures right now, counterplay seems quite flimsy e.g. chip with whatever's in and revenge with prio except most teams rely on Gambit for prio.

I've noticed lots of HO structures are relying on Terapagos as a defensive crutch and that seems to be enough for now? It's worth noting that the bulkless volc and gholds being spammed really do not take on Val too well.

Some adaptation is necessary I think. I expect we will see more stuff such as Defensive Gholdengo, Bulky Volcarona, Heavy Slam Zamazenta, and other forms of priority such as Thunderclap.

Val's definitely worse into slower teams, and pretty useless into Pex/Clef/Molt stuff, but offensive teams really need to start building with this mon in mind.



I do not think this mon is close to broken right now. I also do not think it's the best mon in the tier. It's actually somewhat exploitable now, you really do feel its Achilles' Heel of being slow + having common weaknesses now that it can't escape its typing. Still very sturdy, good priority and emergency check, free progress when it comes in, but it's at like 70% of its original power. Not a fan of SD sets too, pursuit should be the best.



This mon is weird... I think I had a higher initial opinion on it than most and it really hasn't gone down at all since. I think it's gonna be a fantastic anti-offense tool that also gives HO a degree of insurance in that you probably won't ever be swept by something if you have Pagos at full. From what I've seen, it's really critical in HO mirrors to preserve your Tera Shell, can be game deciding. Unpopular opinion, but I still believe Rock Polish > Rapid Spin on HO and that you can probably drop Ice Beam if you pair it with Gambit. Oh yeah, and it demolishes the webs teams being spammed right now. Just need to account for Balloon Ghold.


Probably a hot take, but imo this is the best mega rn. Obliterates a lot of those lazy mola melm structures and exploits Ghold/Gambit like crazy. Lots of teams seem to rely on Pult as their switch in and uhh... Yeah I think you can imagine how that goes. Loves the reintroduction of Gambit, one of its best partners for threatening the few switch ins it had in the first place. Loves the increased viability of Great Tusk, and the introduction of Terapagos as the tier's 2nd/3rd best spinner.

 

[Gock Glocker]

i was building a zard y sun team and I noticed that there are only 2 proto mons left that are actually good the rest are pretty ass. A lot of the reason mons like walking wake were banned was because of their strength in combination with mega zard y. I thought why not ban Mega Charzard Y (absolute menace anyway) and unban some of the proto mons after the tera ban something like Roaring Moon won't be as threatening a sweeper for non sun teams. this would make sun so much more than just mega charzard y + raging bolt and maybe a venusaor if you're feeling a bit crazy. i think that mega charzard y would make a good suspect test following the tera ban. interested to see what other people think of this take.

 

[Patar136]

Gonna share some of my own thoughts on some Pokemon not mentioned. I agree with almost all the posts made so far.

First off, rain is chugging along nicely still. You still have your Swift Swimmer for speed control ( , and of course my beloved ), is fantastic as always and loves being a bulky dragon that has to be wary of. is also great under the rain for obvious reasons with as another alternative for hurricane spamming. Tornadus is running Focus Blast a lot more common now which is kind of funny. You also have stocks rising as a water type that Kingambit wants nothing to do with and with support you can easily build potent offense that still has the means to beat opposing offense.

This thunder clapping dragon is no slouch in a tera less metagame. While it has taken a hit from not being able to instantly remove its ground weakness (unless donning Air Balloon for hilarity) it also appreciates not having to worry about random tera grounds from the opponent. This works on bulkier squads that can appreciate the resistances it offers and is a mix of a weather abuser and anti-weather Pokemon which is really neat to see. Dragonium Z is probably the best and it has to watch for but there are probably some nice sets to experiment with. Definitely not something to avoid prepping for.

Might also be a hot take but I am using this as an excuse to talk about Trick Room. When paired with other Pokes like , , and even among others you can comfortably stack a lot of Trick Room Pokemon together. is something I wanna shout out as it can utterly fry the many new Pokemon added to this tier when it flips the script speed wise. is incredible under Trick Room and being able to abuse its fantastic signature move without it being broken is very fun. Melmetal is great, but not OHKOing the entire tier great. Finally, is still very powerful even when it can't Tera Normal for brute force as it still hits dangerously hard under trick room with very few safe switch ins, and those that exist have to play very carefully. Other abusers include , , , and with probably more I haven't mentioned cause I can't think of them. While probably still a niche playstyle Trick Room teams have got a lot more going for them then they did previously.

That is all I got for now but these are some impressions I have had. Def want to experiment more.

 

[CappyThePulpy]

First of all I am LOVING the tier right now. Playing feels less random and there are also some new mons to play with. I will share some thoughts:


Out of the new mons, this is imo the first and maybe only one to go to back to ubers. Sure, it no longer ohkos the entire tier. But I feel like it still does too much and always takes a good trade. Its stats are absurdly min maxed and it does not really matter that its speed is abysmal considering it eats everything you throw at it. It is worth mentioning that steel is weak to ground, fighting and fire. Ground does not feel as much of a weakness due to the combination of its massive defense to eat up mostly physical earthquakes, and ice punch to scare lando and gliscor. Fighting is a pretty bad type due to all the ghosts running around. It has quite a few feasible sets and is generally pretty hard to wall (rotom-w does a great job, but may eat a toxic).
I think it has the whole suspect package: great offensive and defensive stats, few reliable checks, set flexibility, and ways to annoy those few reliable checks. Melmetal feels relevant into every matchup


Pult does what pult does. The wisp hex pivot set is an amazing utility mon. I haven’t really seen dd z move or specs do what they used to do previously, probably due to gambit existing, but they are still pretty strong. I have yet to see screens pult on ladder.


A great addition to the tier, doesn’t feel broken at all without tera. With tera it could cheese its weaknesses and run away with games in an unfair manner.


A bit underwhelming right now, but I expect to see a hsam gholdengo team terrorize ladder very soon (as soon as the moltres hype dies down)

Other things which I feel like need mention and havent been mentioned before:


Imo the one of the biggest winners of the tera ban, especially the attacking sets run on balance and offense. Diancie always had the power to ohko so much stuff but would fear a tera out of something that should have no business living its hits (all those tusks and garchomps) and ohkoing it back. Basically, without tera, its much harder to hit diancie and exploit its many type weaknesses.

and
Their main downside has always been that tera with protean is awful, so they were always at a disasvantage because they couldnt really use it. Cinderace always had its court change niche, now more important than ever. Meowscarada is a coverage rich mon, relying on super effevtive hits to do real damage. It can now claim kos better than before without tera steel walling it.

Some more general observations:

There is a high competition for the steel type slot(s) on the team. Using something like mmawile is an opportunity cost on not using gambit and gholdengo (or using them and sharing weaknesses).

Balance is back. It was probably the playstyle most affected by the tera cheese, as losing 1 mon to tera would always be very bad for balance, potentially game ending.


With melmetal and many more running around, and with much less waterpon and kyurem (thank god), rotomw is bound for greatness and I see it coming back to OU soon enough. Also no more tera grass heatran, and no more tera fire to dodge burns, always a plus for our favorite washing machine.

 

[RustOverLord]

Been laddering a fair amount since the Tera ban and been really enjoying it! Looking forward to this tier's future as i haven't seriously laddered ever since the second Tera suspect. With that being said i'd like to drop some thoughts on some mons I haven't really seen been discussed since the Tera ban that are worth talking about:

set

that bowl (Ting-Lu) @ Leftovers
Ability: Vessel of Ruin
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Atk / 216 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 25 Spe
- Earthquake
- Payback
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Ting-Lu has felt REALLY good when I used it, specifically with the above RestTalk set. Checks a lot of strong offensive mons in the tier, most notable ones include Raging Bolt, Dragapult, Mega Charizard Y, Nasty Plot Gholdengo, Mega Tyranitar and Terapagos. RestTalk RNG can be very frustrating sometimes, which can be off putting, but i recommend giving Ting-Lu at least a try as it has plenty of brilliant qualities in the tier at the moment.

set

venuvenuvenu (Venusaur-Mega) @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 240 HP / 164 SpA / 104 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Bomb
- Giga Drain
- Earth Power
- Synthesis

Mega Venusaur is a cool mon that has slightly improved due to the removal of Tera, and its a cool mon that's worth mentioning since its quite good when paired with Lu given that they counteract each others weaknesses very well.

While its hazards weakness may seem a bit off-putting (especially since Gholdengo got unbanned and made removal harder), I've been having solid success with Mega Venusaur. It has a phenomenal ability, can absorb Knock Off from all but the strongest users and is much more immediately threatening relative to other bulky Grass or Poison mons. It also matches very well into some mons that got better with the removal of Tera, namely Ogerpon-Wellspring and Mega Diancie. Additionally very strong into Iron Valiant and Mega Lopunny.

Haven't experimented with more heavily bulky variants but i figure that the lack of offensive pressure likely makes them worse.

set

Garganacl @ Leftovers
Ability: Purifying Salt
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 248 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Salt Cure
- Stealth Rock
- Recover
- Protect

While this mon has undeniably, objectively became a decent bit worse with the removal of Tera, i still think the Stealth Rock sets on Garganacl are very solid despite being stuck on a shitty Rock typing. Salt Cure is still a crazy powerful move that makes playing around Garganacl very annoying especially in combination with Protect, and its ability helps into the extremely scary Dragapult currently roaming the tier. I can't really imagine that the Curse or IronPress sets are all that good anymore, but this one will still be quite powerful.

 

[sealoo]

I’m sure there’s some level of new toy syndrome here and maybe ill be dead wrong in a month, but this is the most ive enjoyed playing the tier in a minute. Feels really easy to cover your bases and games feels significantly more skill-based than previous metagame iterations.

also, keep making posts about what you think is good, I personally greatly enjoy reading them!

Should be a survey in the next 1-2 weeks with questions about all the suspect mons asw as some current ones. Id imagine espathra and ape will be featured as well, but we felt it wouldnt be smart to immediately drop them

 

[sh0shin]

yeah, i've literally never had more fun in this tier barring perhaps dengo + ape webs spam way back when. but that was just stupid cheese that has existed in some form as an unfortunately pretty successful archetype for most of the tier's time in the sun. i'm so glad we're finally at this point, at a long last. thanks to everyone who voted! i could not hack reqs for some reason! 1720 elo 2921 coil lmao

i wanted to note that a handful of teams that are from around early 2023 tend to be doing fine for me right now, such as ting lu + pult + torn + mlop/msciz type teams, as well as experimenting with some gen 8 structures like maw + bond gren. i really hated this tier when zama and gambit were running amok, but without tera, i am not one bit worried about them. DD z pult is still kinda crazy but pult is so frail and needs that double setup most of the time -- though wisp > sub is an option as well to allow for you to muscle past your checks. i haven't had any issues with gholdengo either which is surprising. i could see screens/webs being annoying again with it, but overall i'm not worried about it either.

overall some good unbans to start with and i'm kinda surprised none of them feel overbearing (yet)

 

[Sputnik]

I've been messing around with HO recently; overall I believe the playstyle is somewhat worse thanks to the loss of Tera and therefore some of its more stupid sweepers like DemonCrown, but it did gain some new tools as Kingambit, Pult, Zama, Terapagos, and Gholdengo are viable on the playstyle.

However, the real goat of the playstyle for me has been this.



Mega Gyarados actually benefits a lot from these meta changes in my opinion. At least one of Gholdeongo or Kingambit are on literally everything right now, and Gyarados turns them into an opportunity to set up. This is already fantastic as it had a massively hard time finding space to set up in a tera meta. It also seriously benefits from all the slower stuff that people have been working with, and Mold Breaker allows it to break past all the Terapagos that are being used as emergency stops for some offense teams. It also finds a lot of opportunities versus the lazier balance structures running around since they all seem to have either Alomomola or Moltres on them for some reason and Mega Gyarados licks its chops when facing down a team anchored by one of them. Definitely one of the Megas who loves seeing Tera gone.

 

[Yeetus592]

I have been messing around after the tera ban with niche mons and one has stood out to me,

mamoswine feels great to use and surprisingly strong into the current meta with multiple different sets available such as av and lorb, ground/ice is a amazing stab combo allowing for very little to switch in safely without taking chunks of damage or just straight up dying, glowking is a amazing partner allowing it to switch in safely and gain more physical bulk, maybe I haven't played enough games but he feels like a solid c+ mon with a niche in this meta

 

[Just A Shroom God]

spdef moltres + mega venu has been my favorite defensive core so far, moltres fogs on everything and generally is a great catch-all spdef guy while having the ability to check the 3 broken steels we just dropped, especially melm with the unfair flame body. Pair with lu + your choice of offense steel (melm, use melm) to cleave thru stuff. Scariest thing so far has been hsammurott and my own skill issue actively playing around hazards as well as rain bc weather ball zap 2hkos everything lol

 

[1234hjkl]

Getting rid of Tera, was the best decision we made in years in my opinion. Being able to say have some consistency rather than every game being "who's Tera what" is great. While I would love to play with RageApe again all those unban have been great for the meta and I can wait a bit to settle down a wait for a survey, the only thing it just might be a bit above the others is pult since it still a very nasty Z-User and even then it has a bajillion sets between special, physical and support sets, but I think it's ok for now.
One mon I been loving to use is Melmetal, it can do almost everything, I for now use it as unga-bunga band in place of hoopa but I really wanna explore the other sets it may have.