Kyurem if Tera blast was banned:
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
I intend to include Tera Blast in the survey.
My prior post was just a brief run down. It was included in prior surveys, too. There is no Big Smogon conspiracy lol
Tera blast broke two mons (with volcarona already having solid coverage), the other users that got banned were busted either way and considering it involves sacrificing a tera slot in order to be more than another normal move, it ultimately doesn’t seem like an issue itself considering its being used less and less by its main users, but it should be on the next survey regardless since it has support
Sleep moves were objectively better off banned, sleep clause was completely against the idea of “as similar to cartridge as possible” as it was literally modification of code to avoid banning a condition’s moves
I was mad there wasn't a public test on sleep. The fate of a mechanic rested on 8 people
Exactly. I am not even mad it was banned (though I personally thought it should stay). I just wanted there to be an actual suspect. The only times there shouldn't be a suspect is quick bans which happen at the beginning of a new generation/period of the meta and the sleep ban took place during neither. This was also bigger than just one pokemon. It was a whole mechanic. We definitely should have been allowed to vote.
tera blast really only broke a small handful of pokemon, only one of whom would provide any real defensive value to the tier. nobody cares about dropping espathra or regieleki because they likely wouldn't be any good in OU to begin with. i say this as someone who supports a tera blast ban, not to free certain mons but rather because the move itself universally warps defensive counterplay to any and every pokemon in the game in a metagame where defensive counterplay is already so volatile. it just exacerbates some of the issues with the tier imo
hard disagree. sleep already recieved notable support on the at-the-time tiering survey and quickbanning it definitely helped move things forward. if the council held a suspect test instead of a quickban vote we would probably still be having discussions about archaludon and/or kyurem by march. any positive value that preserving sleep clause could've had is outweighed by the sheer amount of mons that could roll the dice and run away with the game, so it's not like we lost anything important as a result of banning it
This is going to be an interesting survey for sure
Tera blast will 100% be on there, and maybe some other surprises
All that changes is physical kyurem dies, mon is still broken enough with mixed sets and special sets
OU Council moment
I suspect it too will fizzle out like most suspects do at this point--both the community and the council seem fully unwilling to actually change the meta in any meaningful way.
We lost our shrooms
Tera blast is a non-issue, Kyurem didn't get enough votes to be banned conclusively even with tera blast. And most mons have no use for tera blast, and TB as a whole isn't too much more uncompetitive than tera type change mechanic itself.
For those of you saying that there is nothing to focus on with bans right now, or for those saying that Tera Blast isn't a problem, maybe you should be experimenting with more diverse sweeping sets. Similarly to Gouging Fire, and also DD Kyurem to an extent, there are plenty of possibilities out there that can be utilized in OU. Roaring Moon is probably the worst offender. You can literally Tera these speed boosting setup sweepers into anything with nearly any coverage right now.
And let's not pretend like a Tera Blast ban solves all the issues with Tera and setup sweepers. It only solves the issue of mons getting STAB combinations they shouldn't be able to have. It doesn't stop accelerated setup sweepers with good enough coverage moves. It doesn't make QD Volc suddenly balanced. It doesn't put a mon like Kyurem in its place. Kyurem can still run plenty of DD sets, from fully physical, to mixed, to PP stalling. A TB ban would help, but it wouldn't suddenly make DD useless. That's just silly. Same for Roaring Moon. You might not be able to Fairy TB, but Moon still has enough good coverage moves and Fairy would still be useful on some sets as a defensive Tera. Etc. Tera Blast is a problem because it is inherently offensive and matchup fishy. Truly broken/borderline mons would still be broken/borderline. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't look at TB, since banning it would solve different issues.
And let's not pretend like a Tera Blast ban solves all the issues with Tera and setup sweepers. It only solves the issue of mons getting STAB combinations they shouldn't be able to have. It doesn't stop accelerated setup sweepers with good enough coverage moves. It doesn't make QD Volc suddenly balanced. It doesn't put a mon like Kyurem in its place. Kyurem can still run plenty of DD sets, from fully physical, to mixed, to PP stalling. A TB ban would help, but it wouldn't suddenly make DD useless. That's just silly. Same for Roaring Moon. You might not be able to Fairy TB, but Moon still has enough good coverage moves and Fairy would still be useful on some sets as a defensive Tera. Etc. Tera Blast is a problem because it is inherently offensive and matchup fishy. Truly broken/borderline mons would still be broken/borderline. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't look at TB, since banning it would solve different issues.
Hard disagree on Regieleki. It would help with speed control and gets Rapid Spin. I definitely want to see that. The rest of the banned nonsense should stay banned, though.
People want change the issue being it kind of feels like people don’t know what kind of change they want
So that sentiment is probably incorrect considering a lot of people want change in the meta but don’t know what they want to change, as shown by the post gouging fire ban suspects
But we may see some interesting stuff on the survey because of the lack of a clear consensus is my point
try physdef foul play. cooks that stupid bitch wellspring
Go look at that one HO team someone built with around 4 Hypnosis users and unironically tell me that sleep wouldn’t turn ladder into coin flips.
I just don't think any reductive change, i.e. bans, will happen for a while. Nothing that didn't just get suspected, other than Tera Blast 
is up for debate, and with how little it's actually used, I doubt people will be clamoring for its removal in the Survey. Maybe this year, we actually hit "Peak Meta," and have no need to ban anything, an idea I had thought the Terapagos ban had achieved.
You know what would really get people to tune into a survey? Open ended question: "What should be unbanned, if you think nothing already OU should be banned first?" Utter fuckinh pipe dream, I know, but it's better there as a question than polluting this thread.
is up for debate, and with how little it's actually used, I doubt people will be clamoring for its removal in the Survey. Maybe this year, we actually hit "Peak Meta," and have no need to ban anything, an idea I had thought the Terapagos ban had achieved.You know what would really get people to tune into a survey? Open ended question: "What should be unbanned, if you think nothing already OU should be banned first?" Utter fuckinh pipe dream, I know, but it's better there as a question than polluting this thread.
I don't think this is fair to say until we get the next tiering survey results, especially when not much has changed and the scores for enjoyability and competitiveness were really low last survey lolI just don't think any reductive change, i.e. bans, will happen for a while. Nothing that didn't just get suspected, other than Tera Blast
You know what would really get people to tune into a survey? Open ended question: "What should be unbanned, if you think nothing already OU should be banned first?" Utter fuckinh pipe dream, I know, but it's better there as a question than polluting this thread.
hey that kind of sounds like where natdex was pre tera ban, as an interesting observation, maybe something that could shake up the tier like an unban (even if its a waste of time) or action on tera will improve engagement if scores are still low or bring change to the meta
I wouldn’t mind either at this point but it definitely feels like people definitely aren’t necessarily happy with the meta right now just like the last survey
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Yeah, my hope is that rn we aim to do some QoL test on moves / mechanics like Tera Blast, Stored Power, Spikes, Booster Energy, maybe another Tera test to satiate the players who want full closure on it, etc. I do think a few of the DDers like Dragonite and Roaring Moon have been getting a bit too creative lately with more flexible Teras, moveslot choices, etc. but I get most players don't feel the same way about these mons + A Tera Blast ban would do wonders in helping reel these Pokemon back a bit. Outside of those mons, I don't really want action on other residents of the tier like Kingambit, Bolt, Ogerpon-W, etc. atm, so waiting for a bit is the best approach I think.
Tera Grass Giga Drain shits all over G*rg and M*la and Great Tusk and Tera Water Gliscor, and anything (within reason) that kills those fuckers is beneficial for the meta.
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Volcarona really wouldn't be broken with Tera Blast banned. It was perfectly tame in Gen 8 without Hidden Power, and the issue of a lack of coverage would still be very apparent should Tera Blast get banned. Tera Blast spam played heavily into its ban, and IIRC, Srn even indicated in one tour that every time Volcarona Teraed into a different type, it won nearly every time, and that was mainly 'cause of Tera Blast giving it coverage it wouldn't have access to.
If there is going to be a non-Pokemon suspect, the only thing I'd accept is Tera Blast (don't think it's broken). Stored Power and Booster Energy are just outright not broken. Magearna is broken even without Stored Power, and Espathra was broken 'cause of Tera Blast letting it beat Steel-type Pokemon. Spikes, while I can see why some people have issues with it, a blanket ban of the move isn't right. If you want to weaken hazards, either you ban Samurott-Hisui, Gliscor, or Gholdengo, and Gholdengo is the main culprit to hazard removal aside from Defog distribution being cut.
If there is going to be a non-Pokemon suspect, the only thing I'd accept is Tera Blast (don't think it's broken). Stored Power and Booster Energy are just outright not broken. Magearna is broken even without Stored Power, and Espathra was broken 'cause of Tera Blast letting it beat Steel-type Pokemon. Spikes, while I can see why some people have issues with it, a blanket ban of the move isn't right. If you want to weaken hazards, either you ban Samurott-Hisui, Gliscor, or Gholdengo, and Gholdengo is the main culprit to hazard removal aside from Defog distribution being cut.
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Yeah I think Volcarona would be "fine" without Tera Blast, but another underrated big buff it got was toxic distribution being slashed. IIRC this was why it was not op in National dex with Tera legal, as it could be easily neutralized by Heatran / Lando-T / Garchomp that opted to run Toxic. This is also how I believe teams started countering volc last generation - running Toxic on their spdef ground.
The problem with this is there wasn't Tera in gen 8. Even with a hypothetical TB ban, which I'm in favor of, Volc would still be able to defensive Tera to brute force QD boosts. It would quickly become untouchable to almost any special attacker, especially with a Tera like Fairy.
Volc also has plenty of options for most mons even without TB. Like there was also that Bug Buzz/Swarm set lurking around. A gen 8 Volc couldn't get double STAB on something like that. I'm not saying that would be the sole factor, but Volc's set diversity would still be fairly high.
Also, Ghold isn't the main culprit for hazards since it basically just blocks Corv in OU. Other Ghost types like Sinistcha can block spinners. Banning Gliscor wouldn't do anything, either, since there are other bulky setters like Skarm and Lu. It's Hamurott if anything. That's the different Spikes setter. It bypasses both fast Taunt and Magic Bounce. If you got rid of Hamurott, the answers for hazards and especially countering hazard leads would be more streamlined across the tier. It's not an OP mon. But if we are talking the hazard problem, that's the way to go if anything. Ghold and Gliscor are red herrings for the Spike problem.
I don't think thats really true since its still gonna get free setup with tera and still has a very good coverage move pool to get pass checks. For example take one of its better checks in unaware clod, which still gets cooked by tera psychic well.....psychic. 252+ SpA Tera Psychic Volcarona Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire: 240-284 (51.7 - 61.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
yeah I agree, I feel like its not talked about much but the removal of toxic from so many pokemon was one of the biggest casualties of the gen 9 moveset cuts imo
While you do have a point with how it can even scare Clodsire with Tera Psychic, Clodsire can also click the Tera button, and then you've exchanged Tera, which can be an important factor in a decent number of matches. Dedicating your Tera button to Volc also means you can't use it another mon that might be better at beating your opponent's team.
I blame Gamefreak's developers for probably wanting to play hyper offense on Pokemon Showdown during down time but getting wrecked by Toxic or Rillaboom, which may be part of the reason why Toxic distribution was gutted, and Grassy Glide took a huge nerf despite their competitive format being VGC 'cause it was easy to farm them on ladder with their poorly made HO teams.