Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4

Free Giratina-Altered (the one without Levitate), for comparison, Ting-Lu is just a better mon

Ting-Lu has:

-Better typing, not being weak to Dark and Ghost while also providing an Electric immunity.
-Better bulk thanks to its ability
-Can actually do a lot with said bulk (set SR/Spikes, force chip damage with Ruination, phaze threats) unlike Giratina who can at best click Dragon Tail in front of a +2 Dragonite and miss
-Isn't Gambit/Roaring Moon/Darkrai food

Meanwhile Giratina can't even pivot like Pecharunt, another bulky Ghost that not only is almost as physically bulky as it is, but also has reliable recovery and doesn't autolose to Toxic like Giratina does.

And we only really get positives with Giratina in the tier, like another Waterpon/Zamazenta/Iron Moth check and a Defogger that can kinda do something to Gholdengo, all in one, and the lack of reliable recovery prevents it from being anything insane, honestly, Dondozo is even more broken than this

It also kinda beats Palafin, so you have even higher chances of finally unbanning this guy like so many people want.
 
Nickos said:
Free Giratina-Altered (the one without Levitate), for comparison, Ting-Lu is just a better mon

Ting-Lu has:

-Better typing, not being weak to Dark and Ghost while also providing an Electric immunity.
-Better bulk thanks to its ability
-Can actually do a lot with said bulk (set SR/Spikes, force chip damage with Ruination, phaze threats) unlike Giratina who can at best click Dragon Tail in front of a +2 Dragonite and miss
-Isn't Gambit/Roaring Moon/Darkrai food

Meanwhile Giratina can't even pivot like Pecharunt, another bulky Ghost that not only is almost as physically bulky as it is, but also has reliable recovery and doesn't autolose to Toxic like Giratina does.

And we only really get positives with Giratina in the tier, like another Waterpon/Zamazenta/Iron Moth check and a Defogger that can kinda do something to Gholdengo, all in one, and the lack of reliable recovery prevents it from being anything insane, honestly, Dondozo is even more broken than this

It also kinda beats Palafin, so you have even higher chances of finally unbanning this guy like so many people want.
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Gambit hates dealing with gira-a because its naturally faster and just clicks wisp on you (not even mentioning shenanigans with slotting in shit like aura sphere)

CM is also a very funny set probably even moreso here
 
Nickos said:
Free Giratina-Altered (the one without Levitate), for comparison, Ting-Lu is just a better mon

Ting-Lu has:

-Better typing, not being weak to Dark and Ghost while also providing an Electric immunity.
-Better bulk thanks to its ability
-Can actually do a lot with said bulk (set SR/Spikes, force chip damage with Ruination, phaze threats) unlike Giratina who can at best click Dragon Tail in front of a +2 Dragonite and miss
-Isn't Gambit/Roaring Moon/Darkrai food

Meanwhile Giratina can't even pivot like Pecharunt, another bulky Ghost that not only is almost as physically bulky as it is, but also has reliable recovery and doesn't autolose to Toxic like Giratina does.

And we only really get positives with Giratina in the tier, like another Waterpon/Zamazenta/Iron Moth check and a Defogger that can kinda do something to Gholdengo, all in one, and the lack of reliable recovery prevents it from being anything insane, honestly, Dondozo is even more broken than this

It also kinda beats Palafin, so you have even higher chances of finally unbanning this guy like so many people want.
Click to expand...
I'm feeling dizzy. And Srn can't even axe this conversation because the Ubers can of worms was purposedly opened by the likeshop.
 
Nickos said:
Free Giratina-Altered (the one without Levitate), for comparison, Ting-Lu is just a better mon

Ting-Lu has:

-Better typing, not being weak to Dark and Ghost while also providing an Electric immunity.
-Better bulk thanks to its ability
-Can actually do a lot with said bulk (set SR/Spikes, force chip damage with Ruination, phaze threats) unlike Giratina who can at best click Dragon Tail in front of a +2 Dragonite and miss
-Isn't Gambit/Roaring Moon/Darkrai food

Meanwhile Giratina can't even pivot like Pecharunt, another bulky Ghost that not only is almost as physically bulky as it is, but also has reliable recovery and doesn't autolose to Toxic like Giratina does.

And we only really get positives with Giratina in the tier, like another Waterpon/Zamazenta/Iron Moth check and a Defogger that can kinda do something to Gholdengo, all in one, and the lack of reliable recovery prevents it from being anything insane, honestly, Dondozo is even more broken than this

It also kinda beats Palafin, so you have even higher chances of finally unbanning this guy like so many people want.
Click to expand...
farming haha reacts for the likeshop, smart idea but I won't fall for it
 
I’m in me mum’s car said:
Very funny because I used to think the opposite, but I don't think whether Ubers should drop into OU should be based on if they add anything into the tier in terms of helping the metagame - it should just be based off of if the mon is dogshit in Ubers and is not broken in OU.
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suprised Im sending something in here two days in a row, I think dropping Ubers shouldnt have if its dogshit in ou or whatever because that's just kinda not it logic, I think dropping them is cool if they don't actively make the meta worse by them being included. ie restrict team building etc etc and for what I feel of the palafin situation it doesn't look like freeing it is all positive, bu taunt farms slower teams for one its checks are terad on and most of em are completely ignored after a tera for a free palafin dubsky meaning you might need to pack more than one check or you suffer losing to it and if offense is really overwhelming rn I wouldn't free another threat that mauls defensive playstyles I would ban the broken ho mons ik ik world shattering concepts
 
veti said:
Palafin makes offense worse if anything, its a huge momentum sink and offense HATES being on the back foot and its priority checks a ton of offense stuff like moth, gambit, valiant, terad moon, darkrai, deoxys.
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all of these pokemon can just invalidate it with tera so its a incredibly unreliable answer to them, meanwhile bulk up and choice band put even more strain on balance teams which are worse than they've ever been
 
Hey everyone, did you know that if you look at the top of the Ubers Viability Rankings, "gullible" is written in the post? Therefore, I propose that we unban Calyrex-Shadow and Miraidon since we can just use Ting-Lu and I think their offensive presence can help counteract such a setup-sweeper heavy metagame.
 
I think if we unban an Uber it should be Reshiram. 90 speed, can't boost its better attacking stat, a pretty nasty wallbreaker but not that much more and we already have several equally absurd wallbreakers. don't do this stall does not need more obstacles to deal with
 
Unaware, or Dondozo at the very least, should be the next suspect. Unaware is incredibly unhealthy as it fundamentally negates one of the key methods of gaining an advantage in finding setup opportunities. Dondozo is its best abuser as well - if we can’t boot Unaware, at least boot it for a healthier and more competitive (not to mention more fun) metagame.
 
An uber drop is just one mon, it's limited in how much chaos it could cause in OU.

I propose unbanning sleep.
I know sleep clause is never coming back so let's just go the whole mile and play with totally unrestricted sleep, same as on cart.

I really miss my spore/leech seed Toedscruel. Please let me have him back.

It would also be funny having vital spirit become a top tier ability.
 
All the Zekrom shitposts are bad. It was even banned in Ubers UU 'cause the mixed set was ridiculous and clearly above the power level for that format. Here is what Zekrom would actually run if it was legal in OU.

Zekrom @ Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
Tera Type: Dragon/Maybe some other Tera type
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Bolt Strike
- Draco Meteor
- Dragon Claw/Outrage (if you don't mind locking into Outrage 'cause your team has a good match-up against Fairy and Steel-type mons and can punish them well)
- Dragon Dance

As for relevant calcs:

4 SpA Life Orb Tera Dragon Zekrom Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Great Tusk: 471-554 (126.9 - 149.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 SpA Life Orb Tera Dragon Zekrom Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 343-406 (89.7 - 106.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Tera Dragon Zekrom Outrage vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ting-Lu: 468-551 (91 - 107.1%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Teravolt Tera Dragon Zekrom Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 601-710 (119.2 - 140.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Zekrom Outrage vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Zapdos: 341-403 (89 - 105.2%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO (shouldn't Tera against this in case of Static)
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Tera Dragon Zekrom Outrage vs. +1 100 HP / 240 Def Zamazenta: 276-325 (78.8 - 92.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (I calced a much more physically bulky set and Zama still doesn't like getting hit by this)
4 SpA Life Orb Tera Dragon Zekrom Draco Meteor vs. 100 HP / 0 SpD Zamazenta: 252-299 (72 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

This clearly has no business being OU with Bolt Strike OHKOing most things on offense that don't resist or are immune to it.
 
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batMAN said:
Unaware, or Dondozo at the very least, should be the next suspect. Unaware is incredibly unhealthy as it fundamentally negates one of the key methods of gaining an advantage in finding setup opportunities. Dondozo is its best abuser as well - if we can’t boot Unaware, at least boot it for a healthier and more competitive (not to mention more fun) metagame.
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I’d argue that Regenerator should be suspected before Unaware. I hate Dondozo as much as the next guy but it’s specially weak and can be overwhelmed by strong special attackers. Regenerator, on the other hand, not only removes the downsides of switching but flat out encourages it, which negates a fundamental aspect of the game. In the worst case scenarios (for your opponent) you can win just by switching between mons, negating basically any progress that’s made by repeatedly healing a third of your health each turn and engaging in the most asinine form of PP stalling (this happened to me once, for like 40 turns the enemy was just switching between Pex and Blissey until I switched Darkrai in at the right moment, Tera Poisoned, nuked Blissey, and then just Dark Pulsed Pex to death)
 
I'm looking through the OU ban list to make a serious post on what I would like to see unbanned and I don't want any of these assholes banned. Palafin and Volcarona sound nice on paper to check offensive threats but then you have to remember they will also be one of those offensive threats and it just adds to the pool of difficulty in the builder imo, but it's the only one genuinely worth testing.
 
Seraphyde said:
I’d argue that Regenerator should be suspected before Unaware. I hate Dondozo as much as the next guy but it’s specially weak and can be overwhelmed by strong special attackers. Regenerator, on the other hand, not only removes the downsides of switching but flat out encourages it, which negates a fundamental aspect of the game. In the worst case scenarios (for your opponent) you can win just by switching between mons, negating basically any progress that’s made by repeatedly healing a third of your health each turn and engaging in the most asinine form of PP stalling (this happened to me once, for like 40 turns the enemy was just switching between Pex and Blissey until I switched Darkrai in at the right moment, Tera Poisoned, nuked Blissey, and then just Dark Pulsed Pex to death)
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Calling a 150/65 HP/SPD pokemon "specially weak" is a strech
 
Nickos said:
Free Giratina-Altered (the one without Levitate), for comparison, Ting-Lu is just a better mon

Ting-Lu has:

-Better typing, not being weak to Dark and Ghost while also providing an Electric immunity.
-Better bulk thanks to its ability
-Can actually do a lot with said bulk (set SR/Spikes, force chip damage with Ruination, phaze threats) unlike Giratina who can at best click Dragon Tail in front of a +2 Dragonite and miss
-Isn't Gambit/Roaring Moon/Darkrai food

Meanwhile Giratina can't even pivot like Pecharunt, another bulky Ghost that not only is almost as physically bulky as it is, but also has reliable recovery and doesn't autolose to Toxic like Giratina does.

And we only really get positives with Giratina in the tier, like another Waterpon/Zamazenta/Iron Moth check and a Defogger that can kinda do something to Gholdengo, all in one, and the lack of reliable recovery prevents it from being anything insane, honestly, Dondozo is even more broken than this

It also kinda beats Palafin, so you have even higher chances of finally unbanning this guy like so many people want.
Click to expand...
This is probably bait but I’ll just say something real quick. Do people really want a significantly slower, but much, much bulkier (150/120/120) Utility Dragapult with Pressure in the tier? That sounds like the opposite of fun to have around OU.
 
SDK03 said:
Alomomola really hates: Being locked into moves, not being able to use its status moves, Special attackers, strong wallbreakers, Substitute abusers, Knock Off users, bulky Dragons and Waterpon.
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What makes Alomomola absolutely insipid is the fact that it’s impossible to OKO and can pivot while having Regenerator. If it’s scared of being unable to pivot, it can just switch out, come back in, and then WishTect in your face.

Mola is a cowardly little bitch so any time a Knocker comes into play, it just switches out and since it has Regenerator it can do so at now cost. Dragons get folded by Play Rough and Ogerbroad dies to Acrobatics.

252 SpA Darkrai Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Alomomola: 250-295 (46.8 - 55.2%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO
 
Seraphyde said:
I’d argue that Regenerator should be suspected before Unaware. I hate Dondozo as much as the next guy but it’s specially weak and can be overwhelmed by strong special attackers. Regenerator, on the other hand, not only removes the downsides of switching but flat out encourages it, which negates a fundamental aspect of the game. In the worst case scenarios (for your opponent) you can win just by switching between mons, negating basically any progress that’s made by repeatedly healing a third of your health each turn and engaging in the most asinine form of PP stalling (this happened to me once, for like 40 turns the enemy was just switching between Pex and Blissey until I switched Darkrai in at the right moment, Tera Poisoned, nuked Blissey, and then just Dark Pulsed Pex to death)
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More posts by me in this thread. Prob my last one for a bit if i dont respond to the going to happen reply. But uh dude hating stall is kinda a massive skill issue and l2p. Nerf the teamstyle thats already not doing the best because you dont like playing "long games" is pretty rofl lol. If youre struggling with stall in svou thats kind of a massive self report and you should look at yourself not point fingers at others for playing a different playstyle.
 
SDK03 said:
This is probably bait but I’ll just say something real quick. Do people really want a significantly slower, but much, much bulkier (150/120/120) Utility Dragapult with Pressure in the tier? That sounds like the opposite of fun to have around OU.
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Ok but have you considered that I can bring one calc showing Giratina being one-shot and is therefore balanced?

+2 252 Atk Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 248+ Def Giratina: 552-650 (109.7 - 129.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

That's how it works, right?
 
SV OU DOWNFALL
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AerionT said:
Calling a 150/65 HP/SPD pokemon "specially weak" is a strech
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I have an easier time with Dozo because HexPult absolutely shits all over non-Avalanche variants, Darkrai also takes advantage of it with Bad Dreams + Dark Pulse flinches in tandem with Sleep Talk failiures significantly decreasing Dozo’s odds of attacking and can Tera Poison if you’re scared of Body Press. In general I avoid relying on boosting moves but I sympathize with the Unaware hate.
 
Seraphyde said:
What makes Alomomola absolutely insipid is the fact that it’s impossible to OKO and can pivot while having Regenerator. If it’s scared of being unable to pivot, it can just switch out, come back in, and then WishTect in your face.

Mola is a cowardly little bitch so any time a Knocker comes into play, it just switches out and since it has Regenerator it can do so at now cost. Dragons get folded by Play Rough and Ogerbroad dies to Acrobatics.

252 SpA Darkrai Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Alomomola: 250-295 (46.8 - 55.2%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO
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I get Regenerator being a pain, but opponents being forced to let their other Pokémon eat chip damage and lose their items just to keep Alo is arguably a good thing overall. If the team they are using doesn’t have Defog, then Hazard-Stack + Knock spam is gonna really hurt them in the long run if they let all their other stuff get chipped down / waste their recovery just to keep Alo alive. Perfect way to punish mindless switching. There’s also how with the aforementioned Waterpon and Encore/Substitute users, what else on a Stall team really wants to switch into those? Not to mention that Trick (what I was referring to with move-locking Mola) is something no member of a Stall team wants to deal with. The Darkrai can’t guarantee a kill with just clicking Attacks? Throw the Stall team a useless Scarf.
 
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