I propose that we infact suspect, the SV ou metagame thread as it has been and remains a toxic waste dump of horrid takes and rage bait, nothing productive is going on here please lock.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
All the Zekrom shitposts are bad. It was even banned in Ubers UU 'cause the mixed set was ridiculous and clearly above the power level for that format. Here is what Zekrom would actually run if it was legal in OU.
Zekrom @ Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
Tera Type: Dragon/Maybe some other Tera type
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Bolt Strike
- Draco Meteor
- Dragon Claw/Outrage (if you don't mind locking into Outrage 'cause your team has a good match-up against Fairy and Steel-type mons and can punish them well)
- Dragon Dance
As for relevant calcs:
4 SpA Life Orb Tera Dragon Zekrom Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Great Tusk: 471-554 (126.9 - 149.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 SpA Life Orb Tera Dragon Zekrom Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 343-406 (89.7 - 106.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Tera Dragon Zekrom Outrage vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ting-Lu: 468-551 (91 - 107.1%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Teravolt Tera Dragon Zekrom Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 601-710 (119.2 - 140.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Zekrom Outrage vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Zapdos: 341-403 (89 - 105.2%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO (shouldn't Tera against this in case of Static)
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Tera Dragon Zekrom Outrage vs. +1 100 HP / 240 Def Zamazenta: 276-325 (78.8 - 92.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (I calced a much more physically bulky set and Zama still doesn't like getting hit by this)
4 SpA Life Orb Tera Dragon Zekrom Draco Meteor vs. 100 HP / 0 SpD Zamazenta: 252-299 (72 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
This clearly has no business being OU with Bolt Strike OHKOing most things on offense that don't resist or are immune to it.
Zekrom @ Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
Tera Type: Dragon/Maybe some other Tera type
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Bolt Strike
- Draco Meteor
- Dragon Claw/Outrage (if you don't mind locking into Outrage 'cause your team has a good match-up against Fairy and Steel-type mons and can punish them well)
- Dragon Dance
As for relevant calcs:
4 SpA Life Orb Tera Dragon Zekrom Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Great Tusk: 471-554 (126.9 - 149.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 SpA Life Orb Tera Dragon Zekrom Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 343-406 (89.7 - 106.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Tera Dragon Zekrom Outrage vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ting-Lu: 468-551 (91 - 107.1%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Teravolt Tera Dragon Zekrom Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 601-710 (119.2 - 140.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Zekrom Outrage vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Zapdos: 341-403 (89 - 105.2%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO (shouldn't Tera against this in case of Static)
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Tera Dragon Zekrom Outrage vs. +1 100 HP / 240 Def Zamazenta: 276-325 (78.8 - 92.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (I calced a much more physically bulky set and Zama still doesn't like getting hit by this)
4 SpA Life Orb Tera Dragon Zekrom Draco Meteor vs. 100 HP / 0 SpD Zamazenta: 252-299 (72 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
This clearly has no business being OU with Bolt Strike OHKOing most things on offense that don't resist or are immune to it.
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I’d argue that Regenerator should be suspected before Unaware. I hate Dondozo as much as the next guy but it’s specially weak and can be overwhelmed by strong special attackers. Regenerator, on the other hand, not only removes the downsides of switching but flat out encourages it, which negates a fundamental aspect of the game. In the worst case scenarios (for your opponent) you can win just by switching between mons, negating basically any progress that’s made by repeatedly healing a third of your health each turn and engaging in the most asinine form of PP stalling (this happened to me once, for like 40 turns the enemy was just switching between Pex and Blissey until I switched Darkrai in at the right moment, Tera Poisoned, nuked Blissey, and then just Dark Pulsed Pex to death)
I'm looking through the OU ban list to make a serious post on what I would like to see unbanned and I don't want any of these assholes banned. Palafin and Volcarona sound nice on paper to check offensive threats but then you have to remember they will also be one of those offensive threats and it just adds to the pool of difficulty in the builder imo, but it's the only one genuinely worth testing.
Alomomola really hates: Being locked into moves, not being able to use its status moves, Special attackers, strong wallbreakers, Substitute abusers, Knock Off users, bulky Dragons and Waterpon. Those things tend to be pretty reliable for handling both Alo and Dozo.
Calling a 150/65 HP/SPD pokemon "specially weak" is a strech
This is probably bait but I’ll just say something real quick. Do people really want a significantly slower, but much, much bulkier (150/120/120) Utility Dragapult with Pressure in the tier? That sounds like the opposite of fun to have around OU.
What makes Alomomola absolutely insipid is the fact that it’s impossible to OKO and can pivot while having Regenerator. If it’s scared of being unable to pivot, it can just switch out, come back in, and then WishTect in your face.
Mola is a cowardly little bitch so any time a Knocker comes into play, it just switches out and since it has Regenerator it can do so at now cost. Dragons get folded by Play Rough and Ogerbroad dies to Acrobatics.
252 SpA Darkrai Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Alomomola: 250-295 (46.8 - 55.2%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO
More posts by me in this thread. Prob my last one for a bit if i dont respond to the going to happen reply. But uh dude hating stall is kinda a massive skill issue and l2p. Nerf the teamstyle thats already not doing the best because you dont like playing "long games" is pretty rofl lol. If youre struggling with stall in svou thats kind of a massive self report and you should look at yourself not point fingers at others for playing a different playstyle.
Ok but have you considered that I can bring one calc showing Giratina being one-shot and is therefore balanced?
+2 252 Atk Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 248+ Def Giratina: 552-650 (109.7 - 129.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
That's how it works, right?
I have an easier time with Dozo because HexPult absolutely shits all over non-Avalanche variants, Darkrai also takes advantage of it with Bad Dreams + Dark Pulse flinches in tandem with Sleep Talk failiures significantly decreasing Dozo’s odds of attacking and can Tera Poison if you’re scared of Body Press. In general I avoid relying on boosting moves but I sympathize with the Unaware hate.
I get Regenerator being a pain, but opponents being forced to let their other Pokémon eat chip damage and lose their items just to keep Alo is arguably a good thing overall. If the team they are using doesn’t have Defog, then Hazard-Stack + Knock spam is gonna really hurt them in the long run if they let all their other stuff get chipped down / waste their recovery just to keep Alo alive. Perfect way to punish mindless switching. There’s also how with the aforementioned Waterpon and Encore/Substitute users, what else on a Stall team really wants to switch into those? Not to mention that Trick (what I was referring to with move-locking Mola) is something no member of a Stall team wants to deal with. The Darkrai can’t guarantee a kill with just clicking Attacks? Throw the Stall team a useless Scarf.
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Yes, but everytime I bring HexPult in front of Dozo it's the Avalanche variant
This is the average IQ of stall players in 2024
I did not say that I hated long games in that post. My argument is that Regenerator is uncompetitive because it encourages switching. There are more skillful and competitive methods of forcing a longer game than mindlessly switching. But hey, I’m sure any criticism directed at stall strategies is still just a skill issue, right? PP stalling through constant switching is totally a big brain strategy that has just as much genius poured into it as the average CTC team, am I right?
Ban the OU Discussion Thread
Jesus, it takes +2 and Protosynthesis to get a guaranteed kill on Giratina with a STAB 139 Attack Knock Off? Yeah no discussion on letting that thing into the tier is serious at all.
+1 252 Atk Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pecharunt: 336-396 (88.4 - 104.2%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
Well, technically, that goes for Pecharunt too, and no one is crying for Pecharunt to be banned. Yes, I know Giratina-Altered is outright better than Pecharunt in many ways, but there is already a mon available in SV OU for which that applies given the massive powercreep of Gen 9 so if you want to highlight Giratina's unsuitability for OU, you should focus on other points.
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My bro, no one dislikes Unaware as much as I do. I've always thought it as a lazy ability. It should maybe be nerfed to ignore the mons own boosts? But to say it should be banned is simply too far. There are all kinds of "annoying" abilities but it's def not unhealthy nor broken whatsoever. There's probably 45 different ways to handle Dozo- I'm sorry you just can't DDance with Moon and 6-0 stall lol
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In other news, I haven't done the math but p sure if all the ppl cashing in points for the cool rewards went for a certain suspect it might have been hit by now. Finch cashing in almost 200k inflated the number so really it's about 300k needed for the Fin suspect.
That said though, and no offense to anyone, but it seems very obvious that no Uber should drop whatsoever. If it does that's fine, w/e, it will just tear up the ladder for a few weeks. We really should be trying to get something real tested though, like TB or Tera itself.
How is regenerator uncompetitive. I think uou might not be the brightest but lemme explain this: to activate regenerator requires to switch (insane i know) and then heres the crazy part... You can take advantage of the free turn the switch gave you or in case of alo its insane passivity to i dont know setup your wincon vs stall or like a setup move. Svou does not encounter double regen cores on stall like how ss does and in ss getting to the regen switching back and forth means you wouldve lost REGARDLESS of them doing this and its just the stall player doing what maximizes their chance of winning ajd getting to that point takes skill. Also yes most complaints about stall are skill issues or you problem. Complaining about someone using a playstyle you dont like comes off as whiny. Stall haters are almost entirely bottom ladder warriors so i hope you know what that makes ya look like! But in all seriousness. You hating stall screams i have a massive skill issue and i cannot take advantage of free turns
EDIT: forgot to address this but like most of the posts of ban/unban x obvious broken or not broken at all are like almost all just reaction farming bait do not get how yall are falling for the most obvious bait or in some cases its taking a jab at the unban pala crowd
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I think we should unban Arceus fairy because if u really think about it 120/120/120/120/120/120 is actually a modest spread in generation 9 Overused. I mean, base 100 mythicals have been legal since generation 3 and that was November 21st 2002 and it is now December 13th, 2024. Do we not all agree that an increase of stats by 20% in 22 years* is rather modest? We simply must allow him in.
*ignore that Arceus was made in Gen 4, that Fairy was introduced in Gen 6, and literally anything else in my post that does not seem 100% genuine
*ignore that Arceus was made in Gen 4, that Fairy was introduced in Gen 6, and literally anything else in my post that does not seem 100% genuine
how is "encouraging switching" uncompetitive? is voltturn uncompetitive for encouraging switching? are defog and rapid spin uncompetitive because they remove a major deterrent to switching and therefore technically encourage switching? are wallbreakers uncompetitive because they encourage the opponent to switch by threatening them? is shadow tag actually the most competitive ability ever because your opponent can't switch? my god, just learn to punish the free turns like a normal person. if you really hate stall that much, just run hoopa-u or ursaluna or psyshock ghold and eat every stall team without needing to think
Regen Degen is def a thing and it forsure is a plague in Gen 8. It's not as bad this gen but no need to insult the dude lol
Also, due to unaware, it's not so simple just to take advantage and simply set up. The best way to handle stall is knock off and slowly chipping things in range, making some good doubles, having taunt/encore mons instead of trying to run away with the game with a sweeper. It might not be a skill issue and more of a builder issue. Not trying to white knight for this person because they do got some hot takes lmao but to be fair stall has some great MUs this gen and you basically need a dedicated wall-breaker (or two) and/or some nice utility stuff. It's disingenuous to just go, "take advantage of free turns bro" if they don't have the team/tools to beat stall.
As a ssou main here double regen cores in ssou are like not hard to stop them from doing said gameplan. Also i wont be cheritable on holding back insults if they want to insult a group of people playing a playstyle almost everytime they post and also if your team doesnt have tools to take advantage of stall just period your team sucks if its not a prep cteam for a tour that team is not good and allowing stall to do what its ideally meant to do (matchup fish). I would be nicer if he wishes to speak talk one on one in private and wishes to be informed but i dont like people who are being willfully ignorant.
i wouldn't necessarily call regen a "plague" in gen 8, there are plenty of guys around that can prevent double regen from switch spamming all day. weav is a fantastic boots remover that's really dangerous if you let it sd, heatran can do nasty stuff to stall in general with the classic triple-t set (trapping, taunt and toxic), melm and kartana and lele can just put massive dents into basically anything and outdamage regen by a mile and a half, and i'm not even dipping below a+ rank on the vr yet. i really think it's kind of sad for gen 8 to constantly have its legacy slandered like this when it's one of the best-balanced generations in living memory and should be lauded as such