Finchinator indicated that Tera Blast will probably be suspected later down the line although I don't see it ever having the traction to actually get banned.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
Finchinator indicated that Tera Blast will probably be suspected later down the line although I don't see it ever having the traction to actually get banned.
when is "later down the line"? It would be quite silly to prioritize a retest of a obviously broken pokemon instead of something that should have been quickbanned a long time ago
I don't have too much of a horse in this race, but I think it's a lot easier for a mon to just get a one-and-done suspect test than it is to have a proper suspect test on a problematic element of Tera.
I think a Tera-adjacent suspect needs to be deliberated carefully. But if Palafin's tested and everyone agrees it's broken, no harm was really done and IMO there's no real urgency to get anything out of the tier. Even mons I personally dislike, I.E. Kyurem or Wellspring, aren't really too problematic at the moment.
I don't really understand what would be lost with the removal of tera blast. Even stuff like kyurem has justifications for keeping it (even if they are bad reasons) but tera blast quite literally adds nothing of value to the metagame, just uninteractive matchup fish cheese. Just get rid of it already pls
Tera Blast is going to be on the survey (source: Finch)
also my pfp is pretty cool guys check it out
also my pfp is pretty cool guys check it out
i mean tbf adaptability CB Basc does basically the same thing.252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Palafin-Hero Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo in Rain: 247-291 (49 - 57.7%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Palafin-Hero Wave Crash vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Amoonguss: 228-269 (52.9 - 62.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Palafin-Hero Wave Crash vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex in Rain: 202-238 (66.6 - 78.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Water Palafin-Hero Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola in Rain: 313-369 (58.6 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Palafin-Hero Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ogerpon-Wellspring: 290-342 (96.3 - 113.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
Let's allow another Mon to carry a playstyle, no one will have a Déjà vu with Archaludon, looks fun.
does like 20% less damage with 230 speed vs 328 speed
You're looking at about 13% less damage, however this is compared to Adamant Palafin.
Considering Adamant on both, you're looking at 255 speed vs 299 speed.
Yeah, I went through every mon in the metagame (+ all the bans)and the only thing that really cares about losing blast is Volcarona (and Regieleki, but that thing would plummet right back to UU like it was in SS).
Kyurem only loses a bit off its physical sets, and the same goes for everyone else: they lose 1 niche option that was nice to have but not critical.
[Also, if tera blast gets banned, Serperior will be on suicide watch and dropping to NUBL)
And fin has better bulk and a better movepool: better coverage like CC, better priority in Jet Punch, recovery options in Drain Punch, etc.
And there's also the fact that Fin isn't locked into using one set like Basc is: it can run BU Taunt with Lefties or HDB, etc etc
why not
You can't tell me what to do.
Because you can only use BU Taunt Palafin in Sun, doctor's orders sorry
but i can. and i say you're not running bu/taunt palafin in rain because palafin is banned right now
I think people are focusing too heavily on Palafin's Choice sets; while yes, it hits like a nuke courtesy of its massive Attack, I think Choice-locked Water moves are a bit of a risk when Wellspring exists and turns a Palafin locked into a Water move into a free SD.
The set people need to talk about is, once again, that absolutely putrid Taunt+BU set that got it banned in the first place.
Palafin-Hero @ Leftovers
Careful Nature
Tera Type: Dragon / Fairy / Ghost
Ability: Zero to Hero
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
- Jet Punch
- Drain Punch
- Taunt
- Bulk Up
Choice item Palafin sets tend to be super prediction reliant and I think Water/Fighting are abysmal types to lock oneself into when Wellspring is ubiquitous and nearly every single competent team has one or both of a Ghost-type or a Tera Ghost mon. I think it'll be some cute tech on Rain, but you cannot beat Barraskewda as far as a Rain-abusing physical attacker/sweeper goes.
THIS set, however, is a devastating wincon that isn't terrified of most traditional forms of speed control since it just nails them with a boosted Jet Punch, and that has the added bonus of completely clowning on a lot of mons that think they can beat the Choiced sets by virtue of good recovery through Lefties+Drain Punch and shutting down basically anything passive with Taunt. Unaware Walls can't rely on their healing or passive damage to beat this long-term, and bulkier Water Absorb mons (Water Absorb Clod was used specifically to try beating the Choiced sets back when this guy was first legal) get 1v1'd if they can't outdamage its boosted Drain Punch healing. It has an abysmal matchup against Primarina, which is unfortunate, but one could easily fit some form of status to cripple Primarina (i.e. TSpikes support) if it means you get to facilitate a beast like this.
As is tradition, Tera makes actually countering this mon a truly Herculean task: Tera Dragon or Grass can stop Ogerpon-W lacking Play Rough/Encore from coming in thinking Palafin's getting easy setup, Tera Fairy is a generally good all-purpose defensive typing, and Tera Ghost fills your team's obligatory "emergency Zama answer/spinblocker" quota and can give ID Zama some serious issues, since it can't muscle past you without a LOT of Crunch luck (crits/drops). But honestly, you could run pretty much any decent defensive Tera type depending on what you're looking to accomplish, from Tera Fire to block status from Ace/Moltres to Tera Poison to eat TSpikes/gain a Toxic immunity and Fighting/Fairy/Poison resistances.
If we're truly gonna talk about Palafin, don't talk about the stupid and bad Choice sets. Talk about this freak of nature.
The set people need to talk about is, once again, that absolutely putrid Taunt+BU set that got it banned in the first place.
Palafin-Hero @ Leftovers
Careful Nature
Tera Type: Dragon / Fairy / Ghost
Ability: Zero to Hero
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
- Jet Punch
- Drain Punch
- Taunt
- Bulk Up
Choice item Palafin sets tend to be super prediction reliant and I think Water/Fighting are abysmal types to lock oneself into when Wellspring is ubiquitous and nearly every single competent team has one or both of a Ghost-type or a Tera Ghost mon. I think it'll be some cute tech on Rain, but you cannot beat Barraskewda as far as a Rain-abusing physical attacker/sweeper goes.
THIS set, however, is a devastating wincon that isn't terrified of most traditional forms of speed control since it just nails them with a boosted Jet Punch, and that has the added bonus of completely clowning on a lot of mons that think they can beat the Choiced sets by virtue of good recovery through Lefties+Drain Punch and shutting down basically anything passive with Taunt. Unaware Walls can't rely on their healing or passive damage to beat this long-term, and bulkier Water Absorb mons (Water Absorb Clod was used specifically to try beating the Choiced sets back when this guy was first legal) get 1v1'd if they can't outdamage its boosted Drain Punch healing. It has an abysmal matchup against Primarina, which is unfortunate, but one could easily fit some form of status to cripple Primarina (i.e. TSpikes support) if it means you get to facilitate a beast like this.
As is tradition, Tera makes actually countering this mon a truly Herculean task: Tera Dragon or Grass can stop Ogerpon-W lacking Play Rough/Encore from coming in thinking Palafin's getting easy setup, Tera Fairy is a generally good all-purpose defensive typing, and Tera Ghost fills your team's obligatory "emergency Zama answer/spinblocker" quota and can give ID Zama some serious issues, since it can't muscle past you without a LOT of Crunch luck (crits/drops). But honestly, you could run pretty much any decent defensive Tera type depending on what you're looking to accomplish, from Tera Fire to block status from Ace/Moltres to Tera Poison to eat TSpikes/gain a Toxic immunity and Fighting/Fairy/Poison resistances.
If we're truly gonna talk about Palafin, don't talk about the stupid and bad Choice sets. Talk about this freak of nature.
This is the main reason I don't think Palafin should come back. Everyone talks about all the new options we have to keep it in check, but what new defensive counterplay do we have for this set? Only thing I can think of is going to your Alo/Sinistcha, clicking Scald/Matcha, and then just praying that you burn it, which can still fail if Palafin is Tera Fire, or you're just profoundly unlucky. That, or running some stupid set like Mental Herb Toxapex.
Damn, you're right. That is a cool pfp.
Also, if Palafin wins the vote thing, does it just get suspect tested immediately, later in December, or at the start of January?
?
252+ Atk Choice Band Palafin-Hero Wave Crash vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Abomasnow in Rain: 244-288 (63.7 - 75.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Basculegion Wave Crash vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Abomasnow in Rain: 252-297 (65.7 - 77.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Yeah! Better than unbanning Palafin! (joke, think whatever you want about Palafin idc)
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i think palafin is probably pretty broken but it doesn't hurt to suspect it, it was barely given a chance to stay in ou and was banned before a lot of stuff that's easily more broken imo (chi yu, annihilape, shed tail, etc). it'd be interesting to see how it fares in a metagame much more balanced than week 1 sv ou
The meta, if anything, is regressing. Webs getting good again is an example of this. I’d rather take risks to shape up what is a pretty much unsalvageable meta game where HO/offense will remain dominant.
Wasn't the previous wave of webs Ribombee? The current influx of webs team is primarily driven by Araquanid, who is arguably a legitimately good pokemon that can do more than just put webs once. It can come several times and even take some KOs. This, if anything, represents an evolution of the meta, not a regression.
Yeah I feel like palafin may wind up being goobing fire 2.0 (or 1.0 since it was banned first lol) since its bulk up sets can be tailor made with various EVs, Terastalization, and items to pick and choose what it beats.
IMO Choice sets on any Pokemon this generation (especially physical attackers) are very difficult to sell as broken no matter how lethal the damage calculations are because they are consistently getting worn down by hazards & Helmet, choice locks are exploitable by Tera, and are easily revenged killed by the ridiculously strong priority options we have, like Kingoobit, Dragonite, Raging Bolt, etc. Even goobing fire, which dealt over 60% to Volcanion in Sun with CB Raging Fury, was a mon that was hard to sell as OP based off its choice set alone because of the rocks weakness, herculean task of getting it on the Field, and its middling speed making it prone to being revenge killed. It was always the set up sets that pushed it over the edge.
IDK if palafin will neccesarily be bad for balance since from some initial testing, it is actually kinda useful with its priority to help contain a lot of annoying threats vs balance like various DD Tera Fire / Ground Pokemon, Darkrai, and Kingoobit. That said, will it be too centralizing of a force on Balance / Bulky Offense? That's what I'm curious to see. The trade off of needing to switch in and out IMO is big, though a bit less when you have a solid defensive partner like Clodsire to help sponge the hit.
I mean regression of playstyles not pokemon. Either way it’s just loops of “oh there’s a new way of using HO” I personally don’t take solace that there’s a different webs setter. Doesn’t make 5 set up mons more funnier interesting.
why is webs a "regression"? are we just casting things as unsophisticated or illegitimate playstyles because we don't like them? is that what we do now?