Announcement DPP OU Machamp Suspect Test (Machamp Banned)

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Excal

Excal

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Hi all,

Following the results of the recent DPP Survey, the DPP Council has elected to suspect test Machamp, which had a resounding 76.5% support for a ban from the qualified survey.

For more information on the community's perspectives on Machamp from a couple of months ago, feel free to read the discussion thread here.

Anyone who has met any of the below thresholds is automatically qualified to vote from tournament placements.

1) 6+ games or 3+ wins in SPL XV
2) DPP Cup X top 8
3) Finals of DPP Seasonals/Globals this year
4) Overall 2024 DPP Circuit top 16

A list of qualified voters can be seen below:

Void, Dridri457, Le Don, mind gaming, Laurel, Malekith, twash, Pideous, Mishimono, Luigi, Christos, SoulWind, crucify, M Dragon, BIHI, elodin, ABR, Fakes, Janik, SANKE CARP, NoName6293, Pkel SweeTforU, TyCarter, nightcore, SFG, Groudon, Larry, false

We will be offering a ladder component for community members to have a chance to vote who do not immediately qualify. Here's how to qualify for ladder requirements:
  • Create a new account on PS. You do not have to follow any specific naming convention, but your suspect account must have never played a game in DPP OU before this suspect test went up or you will not receive valid requirements (resetting W/L does not count for this - the account you use must never have played DPP OU before the test, full stop.)
  • At any point on your new account, use the command /linksmogon on Pokemon Showdown! You will receive instructions on what to do once you run this command.
  • You must have a minimum ELO of 1600, with a minimum GXE of 85
  • This suspect test will last 14 days, concluding on Monday, December 30th at 6:00 PM GMT-5, after which a voting thread will be created. This thread will remain open for discussion about this suspect ONLY, not other potential bans.
  • Check here to see if you have reqs.
  • If you have any questions about this process, feel free to PM me or post here!
 
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BAN, no one will regret him.
at least we won't see every classic player recycling the old zapmie machamp breloom paraspam

more seriously i believe the pokemon not to be overpowered even if it's a great para-abuser, but it is uncompetitive, it's sad when u see a game ending on 50-50 or even 75-25 with para. The less options you have to cheese a better player, and the healthier is a tier. thank god we don't have scald.
 
Just to play devil's advocate for discussion purposes (I don't play gen 4 OU very frequently nor am I on the DNB side) why doesn't the tier just abuse Machamp's No Guard for things like 100% accurate Fire Blasts, Hydro Pumps, and Thunders? It's slow and not very tanky, so in theory it should be easy to play around.

In addition, Machamp has a very poor matchup into Jirachi and Latias if they're running STAB, no? So why not just use Pokemon like Heatran, Zapdos, Jirachi, and Latias when they're already so common and good, when they all OHKO Machamp easily?

252+ SpA Jirachi Psychic vs. 128 HP / 0 SpD Machamp: 308-366 (87.2 - 103.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Latias Draco Meteor vs. 128 HP / 0 SpD Machamp: 348-411 (98.5 - 116.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA 30 IVs Choice Specs Heatran Overheat vs. 128 HP / 0 SpD Machamp: 430-507 (121.8 - 143.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA 30 IVs Choice Specs Zapdos Hidden Power Flying vs. 128 HP / 0 SpD Machamp: 420-494 (118.9 - 139.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
RainebowValiant said:
Just to play devil's advocate for discussion purposes (I don't play gen 4 OU very frequently nor am I on the DNB side) why doesn't the tier just abuse Machamp's No Guard for things like 100% accurate Fire Blasts, Hydro Pumps, and Thunders? It's slow and not very tanky, so in theory it should be easy to play around.

In addition, Machamp has a very poor matchup into Jirachi and Latias if they're running STAB, no? So why not just use Pokemon like Heatran, Zapdos, Jirachi, and Latias when they're already so common and good, when they all OHKO Machamp easily?

252+ SpA Jirachi Psychic vs. 128 HP / 0 SpD Machamp: 308-366 (87.2 - 103.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Latias Draco Meteor vs. 128 HP / 0 SpD Machamp: 348-411 (98.5 - 116.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA 30 IVs Choice Specs Heatran Overheat vs. 128 HP / 0 SpD Machamp: 430-507 (121.8 - 143.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA 30 IVs Choice Specs Zapdos Hidden Power Flying vs. 128 HP / 0 SpD Machamp: 420-494 (118.9 - 139.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Click to expand...
im not a dpp main aswell but isnt hard to just paralyze jirachi or trap latias so machamp can start being a big problem , this isnt gsc where all evs are maxed out machamp special is quite bad to actually abuse it . not to mention even if u switch to a dyna punch resist the confusion can be really bad for you , machamp still can hit fighting resists quite hard like payback for rotom , latias , etc. and stone edge for zapdos and other flyings.
 
RainebowValiant said:
Just to play devil's advocate for discussion purposes (I don't play gen 4 OU very frequently nor am I on the DNB side) why doesn't the tier just abuse Machamp's No Guard for things like 100% accurate Fire Blasts, Hydro Pumps, and Thunders? It's slow and not very tanky, so in theory it should be easy to play around.

In addition, Machamp has a very poor matchup into Jirachi and Latias if they're running STAB, no? So why not just use Pokemon like Heatran, Zapdos, Jirachi, and Latias when they're already so common and good, when they all OHKO Machamp easily?

252+ SpA Jirachi Psychic vs. 128 HP / 0 SpD Machamp: 308-366 (87.2 - 103.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Latias Draco Meteor vs. 128 HP / 0 SpD Machamp: 348-411 (98.5 - 116.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA 30 IVs Choice Specs Heatran Overheat vs. 128 HP / 0 SpD Machamp: 430-507 (121.8 - 143.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA 30 IVs Choice Specs Zapdos Hidden Power Flying vs. 128 HP / 0 SpD Machamp: 420-494 (118.9 - 139.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Click to expand...
machamp is used with paralysis support from clefable spdef, defensive jirachi, defensive latias all mons who can take the attacks u mentioned, once the jirachi max spa is paralysed u can one shot machamp "if" u go though para and confusion. if your latias isn't para it should be an excellent fighting resist but coming into a d punch and u have a painful 50-50 I might kill with specs Draco meteor but if u hit urself in confusion, then latias is dead. Those situations are unhealthy, and we should get rid of it, even if the Mon isn't considered broken.
 
Is there a full explanation of how the account linking works? Can you link multiple accounts in case you need to reset for GXE?

mod edit: yes you can link unlimited accounts
 
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RainebowValiant said:
Just to play devil's advocate for discussion purposes (I don't play gen 4 OU very frequently nor am I on the DNB side) why doesn't the tier just abuse Machamp's No Guard for things like 100% accurate Fire Blasts, Hydro Pumps, and Thunders? It's slow and not very tanky, so in theory it should be easy to play around.

In addition, Machamp has a very poor matchup into Jirachi and Latias if they're running STAB, no? So why not just use Pokemon like Heatran, Zapdos, Jirachi, and Latias when they're already so common and good, when they all OHKO Machamp easily?

252+ SpA Jirachi Psychic vs. 128 HP / 0 SpD Machamp: 308-366 (87.2 - 103.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Latias Draco Meteor vs. 128 HP / 0 SpD Machamp: 348-411 (98.5 - 116.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA 30 IVs Choice Specs Heatran Overheat vs. 128 HP / 0 SpD Machamp: 430-507 (121.8 - 143.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA 30 IVs Choice Specs Zapdos Hidden Power Flying vs. 128 HP / 0 SpD Machamp: 420-494 (118.9 - 139.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Click to expand...
now switch them in
 
AngryPidgeon said:
Just run Slowbro. Its insane were banning one of the few actually good answers to Big Stall™ when Jirachi is much much worse in every way. I may actually get reqs just to impotently vote against Big Stall™.

B..b..but Machamp is used alongside Clef and Jirachi to enable paraflinch!! Ok, then ban the real problem (Jirachi)
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No one can be expected to run Slowbro just for Champ let’s stop being ridiculous. Of course generations of DPP players have tested bro; even if Scizor is not #1 anymore you just don’t want Bro as your bulky water in this gen, where Dark and Bug weaknesses are just sooooo bad and you’re slower than TTar and Scizor.

I say ban Champ and Jirachi, they are both cancers on DPP.

Or ban Iron Head and Dynamic Punch, don’t care how targeted those bans sound.
 
whether machamp or no guard/dynamic punch is banned makes little to no difference. as we've stated several times, we are not able to target no guard/dynamic punch due to policy reasons (machamp being the only noteworthy abuser of the ability & move respectively). if you are upset by this, please bring these grievances to policy review and advocate for a policy change.

guts machamp has not been used in an official dpp tournament in the past decade+. it is reasonable to complain about a lack of complex bans in other situations, but certainly not this one. posts complaining that we aren't banning no guard/dynamic punch or distracting from the main topic at hand (whether machamp should be banned or not) will be deleted.

from the op: "This thread will remain open for discussion about this suspect ONLY, not other potential bans."
posts complaining that we are suspecting machamp and not something else will also be deleted. please read the op if you're curious why this suspect is happening.
 
Machamp wasn't a big deal at all until people discovered how broken paralysis is. There's a better case for banning high chance paralysis moves (or even just Thunder Wave would be significant) all together than banning Machamp which would be far more efficient at addressing the problem people have with DPP. Machamp isn't fundamentally broken and by the standards of the tier is not even the main hax abuser this generation. Para spam has and will be broken and boil the game down to a lottery spin with and without Machamp.
 
Jhall99 said:
As cool as Slowbro is, it’s way too passive & not exactly the best bulky water to run compared to Swampert (Tankpert has decent odds against Jirachi & can set up rocks), Empoleon, or even Milotic.
Click to expand...
Yeah. It’s got good stats and instant recovery is nice— but it’s just a blob that as a blob is inferior to Milotic which itself is inferior to others.

In DPP, you just need your bulky water to deliver more utility like spin, hazards, roar, or you need it to straight up kill the other team. Slowbro can’t deliver on any of that.
 
While i have played less dpp than usual in the last 2-3 months, I have faced a lot of machamp on ladder... so may as well state my opinion. I think machamp is smth we can toss without any casualities to the tier. I think this mon def should go, dynamic punch is just an ass move to fight against and regardless if you are using it or against it your counterplay is either to get as many confusions as possible to limit ur opponents turns or to break through as many of them to make sure you are able to break through machamp.

I do not think i have to dwelve into why d punch from machamp who hits like a truck is infinitely harder to deal with than smth like an iron head rachi or togekiss air slashes
QuickBH said:
Machamp wasn't a big deal at all until people discovered how broken paralysis is. There's a better case for banning high chance paralysis moves (or even just Thunder Wave would be significant) all together than banning Machamp which would be far more efficient at addressing the problem people have with DPP. Machamp isn't fundamentally broken and by the standards of the tier is not even the main hax abuser this generation. Para spam has and will be broken and boil the game down to a lottery spin with and without Machamp.
Click to expand...
Machamp is bullshit to face, maybe its not broken but its certainly not fun to fight. I really do not think an explanation is needed why removing this mon is just healthier for the tier.... no dynamic punch confusion rng, no being able ot just cheese opponents via para fusion, and without machamp its much weaker as jirachi, togekiss and others are much weaker or others who would abuse paralysis dont make it so your opponent cant move at all and just take advantage of the speed drop more than anything

I do not think paralysis as a whole is broken... its when you combine it with dynamic punch that you just have to deal with someone trying to make it so you have to deal with winning as many coin tosses as possible
AngryPidgeon said:
Just run Slowbro. Its insane were banning one of the few actually good answers to Big Stall™ when Jirachi is much much worse in every way. I may actually get reqs just to impotently vote against Big Stall™.

B..b..but Machamp is used alongside Clef and Jirachi to enable paraflinch!! Ok, then ban the real problem (Jirachi)
Click to expand...
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Huh... i wonder what D rank means?

The test is focusing on machamp not jirachi... idk why you want to try to make this about jirachi when the vote is ban machamp y/n
 
Let's say if Machamp were to be banned, people start spamming Machoke and the community sees that it's just as problematic as Machamp. Would you just ban both evolutions or realize that the issue is the move itself and/or the ability? Because I'm harking back to Gen 8 and how Dugtrio/Arena Trap was handled
 
Pls stop fearmongering about Machoke. If Dynamic Punch No Guard was so amazing that we would see it in OU after a Machamp ban, then you would expect it to see it used in UU, but you don't, the Pokemon is only relevant all the way down in PU. It's simply too slow, frail and weak to be threatening in the same way Machamp is (for example, Rotom hardly cares about a Machoke Payback and even with confusion breaking things like Skarm/Hippo is unfeasible).
 
Drifting said:
Pls stop fearmongering about Machoke. If Dynamic Punch No Guard was so amazing that we would see it in OU after a Machamp ban, then you would expect it to see it used in UU, but you don't, the Pokemon is only relevant all the way down in PU. It's simply too slow, frail and weak to be threatening in the same way Machamp is (for example, Rotom hardly cares about a Machoke Payback and even with confusion breaking things like Skarm/Hippo is unfeasible).
Click to expand...
I think BKC made 1 team for DPP NU involving Machoke lead, but that’s pretty ancient.

Machoke will likely get destroyed by plenty of leads in NU, it’s a 1 trick pony that fails when Slowking is part of the big 3 in NU along with Regirock & Stuntank
 
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