Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4

Why cobalion might have the smallest niche here: My biggest propaganda piece yet



Reason 1: it hits the griddy on kingambit

long story short, kingambit needs low kick with a few dead allies to do damage on it as cob resists it’s and sucker punch won’t do anything efen at low health, meaning cobalion can force a tera on it since it can always outspeed and kill with fighting stab, its a very consistent check to one the tiers best pokemon that can use it as stealth rock, paralysis or pivot fodder, justified means physical sets can help out dark weak pokemon
by endangering their biggest thorn whilst using its stab as a boost, making harder to switch into or even using it as set up fodder



but beware low kick sets with an entire fainted team as a boosted low kick threatens insane damage, but you still outspeed and can force a tera which gives gambit a typing which may leave struggling to deal with another pokemon on your team

Reason 2: Its movepool

Iron crown outclasses cobalion as you probably know, but the faster cob have a few funny tricks crown doesn’t, including thunder wave, stealth rock, taunt, roar, body press and even vacuum wave if you feel spicy, here is an example of something iron crown can’t do



Cobalion @ Leftovers

Ability: Justified

Tera Type: Poison

EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

Timid Nature

IVs: 0 Atk

- Thunder Wave

- Body Press

- Stealth Rock

- Volt Switch

Now while this isn’t the best set in the world with all the earthquakes in this tier, it is something unique for this metagame as it is immune to toxic, checks kingambit, dragonite (partially at least) and hisuian samurott, sets rocks, can pivot and most importantly, it has thunder wave to play around multiple pokemon

Reason 3: It’s one of the few pokeon that can become a mixed sweeper by boosting its defenses

Iron defense + calm mind iron crown is genuinely cool and all, but check this out

Cobalion @ Leftovers

Ability: Justified

Tera Type: Poison

EVs: 252 HP / 128 SpD / 128 Spe

Timid Nature

IVs: 0 Atk

- Flash Cannon

- Calm Mind

- Iron Defense

- Body Press



This, this if anything else, will be cobalion’s claim to fame, this will be the most viable set I have crafted and tested thus far, this is something unique, a pokemon that can boost its defenses and offenses at the same time, it gets stab on body press and it has a toxic immunity, this is what cobalion stand out if nothing else



That being said, it does get washed my moltres without multiple calm minds, as moltres may begin to starting lacking the power to kill it but it can still wall and risk a burn to make sure pokemon like kingambit and galarian slowking

Reason 4: It is a good knock off absorber
With its good bulk and resistances alongside justified, cobalion can into the tier’s many knock offs and get a free boost to its physical stab, which would be especially useful for those deluded enough to run swords dance on it.


Reason 5: This team i made

Post in thread 'Pokemon DLC 2 (The Indigo Disk) Thread Reservation'

Thread 'Cobalions forest offense(1500+)'

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/cobalions-forest-offense-1500.3733300/

I tried this team today and despite it being somewhat outdated, its still solid past low ladder as sinistcha is a good wincon and rillaboom’s provides good support with grassy terrain which weakens earthquake and allows for cobalion to get more switch ins and to stand up to great tusk and roaring moon, i advise you listen to Roller K’s advise in the reply though even if he removed the sheist in his revised team without different members



Conclusion so far

Many of you may wonder what my motive is for this, why must i continue this madness even a year later

It is simple really, It was the only pokemon i reserved at the beginning of dlc 2

Post in thread 'Pokemon DLC 2 (The Indigo Disk) Thread Reservation'

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...-disk-thread-reservation.3732645/post-9895062

And I tell you, if I secured granbull, I would make work, If I secured flygon, I would make it work and if I secured a pokemon designed to do nothing, designed with the purpose of not having a purpose, I would make it work and I would give it a purpose



Anything I reserve, I advocate for till the end, just wait until I actually make my analyse for rest talk ting lu



Overall, cobalion unironically has a solid niche here for all its flaws because it fits on multiple team styles, even if it’s B- at the very best
 
Last edited:
TurquoiseLink said:
Tera itself might also get a lot of people who stopped playing gen 9 OU due to getting Tera to come out of the woodwork to get it banned. These people probably couldn't care less about a Tera Blast suspect.

I will say that even if Tera gets banned (unlikely) I would want it immediately unbanned at the end of the generation. Unlike gen 8 where no-one cares about dynamax, gen 9 nostalgia is definitely going to be about playing the Tera gen again.
Click to expand...
I think you underestimate the positive effect a Tera blast would have. I think it would really reinvigorate the meta. Volc and Elecki (and possibly Espathra but who cares) could both come back. It would add another spinner + Swiss Army knife Mon back into the metagame and it would take away some variance that people complain about.
 
Welcome to mars said:
Why cobalion might have the smallest niche here: My biggest propaganda piece yet



Reason 1: it hits the griddy on kingambit

long story short, kingambit needs low kick with a few dead allies to do damage on it as cob resists it’s and sucker punch won’t do anything efen at low health, meaning cobalion can force a tera on it since it can always outspeed and kill with fighting stab, its a very consistent check to one the tiers best pokemon that can use it as stealth rock, paralysis or pivot fodder, justified means physical sets can help out dark weak pokemon
by endangering their biggest thorn whilst using its stab as a boost, making harder to switch into or even using it as set up fodder



but beware low kick sets with an entire fainted team as a boosted low kick threatens insane damage, but you still outspeed and can force a tera which gives gambit a typing which may leave struggling to deal with another pokemon on your team

Reason 2: Its movepool

Iron crown outclasses cobalion as you probably know, but the faster cob have a few funny tricks crown doesn’t, including thunder wave, stealth rock, taunt, roar, body press and even vacuum wave if you feel spicy, here is an example of something iron crown can’t do



Cobalion @ Leftovers

Ability: Justified

Tera Type: Poison

EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

Timid Nature

IVs: 0 Atk

- Thunder Wave

- Body Press

- Stealth Rock

- Volt Switch

Now while this isn’t the best set in the world with all the earthquakes in this tier, it is something unique for this metagame as it is immune to toxic, checks kingambit, dragonite (partially at least) and hisuian samurott, sets rocks, can pivot and most importantly, it has thunder wave to play around multiple pokemon

Reason 3: It’s one of the few pokeon that can become a mixed sweeper by boosting its defenses

Iron defense + calm mind iron crown is genuinely cool and all, but check this out

Cobalion @ Leftovers

Ability: Justified

Tera Type: Poison

EVs: 252 HP / 128 SpD / 128 Spe

Timid Nature

IVs: 0 Atk

- Flash Cannon

- Calm Mind

- Iron Defense

- Body Press



This, this if anything else, will be cobalion’s claim to fame, this will be the most viable set I have crafted and tested thus far, this is something unique, a pokemon that can boost its defenses and offenses at the same time, it gets stab on body press and it has a toxic immunity, this is what cobalion stand out if nothing else



That being said, it does get washed my moltres without multiple calm minds, as moltres may begin to starting lacking the power to kill it but it can still wall and risk a burn to make sure pokemon like kingambit and galarian slowking

Reason 4: It is a good knock off absorber
With its good bulk and resistances alongside justified, cobalion can into the tier’s many knock offs and get a free boost to its physical stab, which would be especially useful for those deluded enough to run swords dance on it.


Reason 4: This team i made

Post in thread 'Pokemon DLC 2 (The Indigo Disk) Thread Reservation'

Thread 'Cobalions forest offense(1500+)'

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/cobalions-forest-offense-1500.3733300/

I tried this team today and despite it being somewhat outdated, its still solid past low ladder as sinistcha is a good wincon and rillaboom’s provides good support with grassy terrain which weakens earthquake and allows for cobalion to get more switch ins and to stand up to great tusk and roaring moon, i advise you listen to Roller K’s advise in the reply though even if he removed the sheist in his revised team without different members



Conclusion so far

Many of you may wonder what my motive is for this, why must i continue this madness even a year later

It is simple really, It was the only pokemon i reserved at the beginning of dlc 2

Post in thread 'Pokemon DLC 2 (The Indigo Disk) Thread Reservation'

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...-disk-thread-reservation.3732645/post-9895062

And I tell you, if I secured granbull, I would make work, If I secured flygon, I would make it work and if I secured a pokemon designed to do nothing, designed with the purpose of not having a purpose, I would make it work and I would give it a purpose



Anything I reserve, I advocate for till the end, just wait until I actually make my analyse for rest talk ting lu



Overall, cobalion unironically has a solid niche here for all its flaws because it fits on multiple team styles, even if it’s B- at the very best
Click to expand...
Love the analysis. Rest Talk Ting Lu is already real set though?
 
Smogcorder tntblader here. I can't believe another post here but I wanna express my thoughts in a place where more svou players can see it. So lets start with terablast

TERA BLAST

My thoughts on this are its overall pretty fine, the issues of needing to tera for the move to be actually fucking usable for half the guys is pretty big, sure random tera blasts are annoying but like I don't think it deserves to be banned, it feels like a way to avoid banning kyurem and to bring back volcarona both of which are notoriously unhealthy especially tera volc even without tera blast and it makes it feel more like a bandaid fix compared to an actual solution cause if volc is freed post tb ban what next. the community lacks cohesion on what they want to be tested to the point where it will kinda just hit square one. I may think tera as a whole deserves a ban along with several silly guys in the tier but it will just kinda be like where we are right now. Also eleki does not add shit to the meta when freed be so real and espathra shouldn't be unbanned regardless.

PALAFIN

I cant believe we are really trying to test this, this Mon is another threat in a tier that arguably needs less. this Mon mauls anything slower than it making it shaky to check defensively and the other checks it teras on and then lol wow nice. This Mon most obviously forces you to run multiple dedicated checks otherwise you can just kinda get goobed hard. this is restrictive to team building and NOT a thing an addition via suspect into the tier should have also zth having to switch out isn't a flaw. this isn't vgc you have plenty of time to switch back in after switching out along with you not needing to run flip turn obviously.

KYUREM

The fact this guy is still here is a crime in of itself, the meta with it banned even though temporary was a highlight of svou as a whole, if I'm going to be real a better use on the like shop suspect vote would be kyurems 4th and final instead of the obvious broken or other Ubers and go from post kyurem ban meta because the way I see the meta going from here is not the greatest due to the lack of cohesion on what should go or votes from the player base as a whole, my issues with the tier mostly are because of the playerbase as a former player.

FINAL THOUGHTS

I think the tier could be good I see potential, but the potential cant be reached if we blindly listen to fear mongering/propagana and by the by guys, some better players than me don't vote ban on the brokens because they don't trust y'all to vote ban for the sub brokens once the major ones are gone, I hope that says enough but thanks for reading this and I'll be happy to explain further and the like if asked but keep in mind these are just my thoughts and opinions and if you disagree that's fine just please think about what I said and think in general because of boy some of the people here do not think or use common sense.
 
LoseToRU? said:
Ladder loves HO because shorter games and less intense on the brain. The most consistent style to climb is actually Stall. A good chunk of the top 30 on the ladder and/or with players 88gxe+ run stall. Pre-1600ish elo many players simply just forfeit turn 1.
Click to expand...
Pre 1600s players running against stall be like:

1734462510795.png
 
TurquoiseLink said:
Tera itself might also get a lot of people who stopped playing gen 9 OU due to getting Tera to come out of the woodwork to get it banned. These people probably couldn't care less about a Tera Blast suspect.

I will say that even if Tera gets banned (unlikely) I would want it immediately unbanned at the end of the generation. Unlike gen 8 where no-one cares about dynamax, gen 9 nostalgia is definitely going to be about playing the Tera gen again.
Click to expand...
If it were to ever be banned it would probably stay banned simply for the reason that it would throw the meta into instability if it were to be brought back

Its like if machamp and jirachi get banned from DPP OU for instance and are brought back down months later, it would make things way more unstable
 
tntblader said:
KYUREM

The fact this guy is still here is a crime in of itself, the meta with it banned even though temporary was a highlight of svou as a whole, if I'm going to be real a better use on the like shop suspect vote would be kyurems 4th and final instead of the obvious broken or other Ubers and go from post kyurem ban meta because the way I see the meta going from here is not the greatest due to the lack of cohesion on what should go or votes from the player base as a whole, my issues with the tier mostly are because of the playerbase as a former player.
Click to expand...
It would be pretty funny if the likeshop suspect was Kyurem again, not gonna lie. I think it's the outcome we deserve.
 
Eeveeto said:
It won,t be, but if Palafin somehow gets into OU, I will be voting Do Not Ban on all future Kyurem Suspects (isn,t even a good check, but if Tier is ruined anyway, at least gotta have some good Ice Mon in it).
Click to expand...
Of course, how are you going to ban Kyurem if we keep bringing ever stronger pokemons to the tier. If Palafin is allowed, then bring in Solgaleo and Lugia next, why not? Annihilape too for funsies, and it would be a crime at that point to not allow this gen's pseudo.

There are a couple of pokemon that are slightly avobe the OU powerlevel, and there are others that are just at the top of it, that have been suspect tested or people want to suspect test them. Kyurem, Gliscor, Ogerpon Wellspring, Kingambit, and a bit below Zamazenta, Roaring Moon and Darkrai (I don't think Gholdengo belongs in this list).

And it is my belief that this community needs to have a conversation on whether we should increase the power level of the tier or decrease it, banning all of these pokemon in a sweep. We cannot be arguing forever who deserves to be banned over the others, which of these clearly S tier pokemon is the most oppressive of them all, which one is the problematic one.

This tier is more or less okay in its current state, I've defended that Gen 9 OU is a very enjoyable metagame, but I also know and many believe that the metagame is barely held together as it is. So perhaps it's time to axe it and ban all of the top threats.
 
Personally the reason I am not enjoying the format as much as before is that there are no options rn. There were some heat squads I was running with Rotom-W + Garchomp that I really enjoyed, but even then, I think its a bit of a stretch to call a mon like Garchomp "heat" when its still crazy good with its awesome speed tier and Ghold / Gking / Mola busting capabilities (even Tusk is taking 40+% from Soft Sand EQ). Most building options for HO styles I think can feel like cheating (i.e. running a shitmon that gets compensated for by Gambit / Moon / whatever). Balance & Bulky offense are good styles,, but when running them, it feels like you have to run the same Tusk / Pult / Moltres or Tusk / Gambit or Zama / Lando-T / Gking structures which have even lower variations to them than they would in other tiers like Natdex due to movepool cuts (where it would otherwise feel like you can specialize something like Lando-T or Gambit to your liking instead of running the same damn set every time). I do like how Tera allows for more specialization in certain Pokemon, and I do feel that how versatile some mons like Val are is underexplored, but when you try specializing these mons, you run into the same issues of Hazard Spam or something else making it really difficult for them to work. You've gotta run the same 2-3 options for hazard control and it gets boring fast.

This is kinda why I want baby Terapagos back in the tier. Mon compresses a lot of roles between being a blanket to most threats, having Ice Beam for Scor, and being a spinner (one of the best in fact). It can be annoying for this reason, but it would add a lot to the builder imo, esp since its also endlessly versatile. Playing ND with this mon legal kinda only reaffirmed the view that it would be a really good presence in the tier.
 
Magcargo said:
Personally the reason I am not enjoying the format as much as before is that there are no options rn. There were some heat squads I was running with Rotom-W + Garchomp that I really enjoyed, but even then, I think its a bit of a stretch to call a mon like Garchomp "heat" when its still crazy good with its awesome speed tier and Ghold / Gking / Mola busting capabilities (even Tusk is taking 40+% from Soft Sand EQ). Most building options for HO styles I think can feel like cheating (i.e. running a shitmon that gets compensated for by Gambit / Moon / whatever). Balance & Bulky offense are good styles,, but when running them, it feels like you have to run the same Tusk / Pult / Moltres or Tusk / Gambit or Zama / Lando-T / Gking structures which have even lower variations to them than they would in other tiers like Natdex due to movepool cuts (where it would otherwise feel like you can specialize something like Lando-T or Gambit to your liking instead of running the same damn set every time). I do like how Tera allows for more specialization in certain Pokemon, and I do feel that how versatile some mons like Val are is underexplored, but when you try specializing these mons, you run into the same issues of Hazard Spam or something else making it really difficult for them to work. You've gotta run the same 2-3 options for hazard control and it gets boring fast.

This is kinda why I want baby Terapagos back in the tier. Mon compresses a lot of roles between being a blanket to most threats, having Ice Beam for Scor, and being a spinner (one of the best in fact). It can be annoying for this reason, but it would add a lot to the builder imo, esp since its also endlessly versatile. Playing ND with this mon legal kinda only reaffirmed the view that it would be a really good presence in the tier.
Click to expand...
Too bad we could never get Terapagos back as long as tera is here due to the complex ban thing. I also think it would be extremely healthy without tera (although hstack players prob wouldn’t like it). tbh I never found Terapagos-Stellar that broken in its meta. (don’t reply to this like “erm actually it was very broken idiot”)
 
Magcargo said:
This is kinda why I want baby Terapagos back in the tier. Mon compresses a lot of roles between being a blanket to most threats, having Ice Beam for Scor, and being a spinner (one of the best in fact). It can be annoying for this reason, but it would add a lot to the builder imo, esp since its also endlessly versatile. Playing ND with this mon legal kinda only reaffirmed the view that it would be a really good presence in the tier.
Click to expand...
This would be such a good addition to the tier, too bad its almost 2025 but we are still allergic to complex bans :( This mon would go on long way in solving the hazard problem and I seriously hope this can be considered at some point. This would be a way more serious test than palafin btw
 
Gen 9 is gonna go down as one of the worst generations, don’t @ me!

Let’s face it the only reason people want to reintroduce Mons like Palafin is not for its merits, but because it might be fun to use. Of course we can’t ban Pokemon because they’re simply unfun while also being borderline, but a borderline Pokemon that might be fun? Count me in! My hope is that the council and player base at large will use what we’ve learned from this Gen, and implement the lessons into Gen 10.
 
Linking my solgaleo takedown piece here because I feel it might soon be relevant to OU metagame (click the box to read the full post):
Delibird Heart

Post in thread '12 Days of Likeshop - 2024 - it's time to go'

WHY DOES SOLGALEO SUCK ? (AND THUS SHOULD BE UNBANNED)​
Despite being one of the box legendaries for Sun and Moon, I have the utter conviction that Solgaleo would be completely fine in Gen 9 OU, and not even just that, I believe it wouldn't even be that good in OU (UUBL AT BEST !!!!!). You may think I'm crazy, and you may be right about that, but not for the reasons you might imagine. Let's take a closer look at Iron Mufasa over here.

1734481638405.png


At first glance, this mon has great stats ! Amazing bulk and pretty...
  • Like
  • Wow
  • Love

Go give your likes so we can free Iron Mufasa !!
 
Delibird Heart said:
Linking my solgaleo takedown piece here because I feel it might soon be relevant to OU metagame (click the box to read the full post):
Delibird Heart

Post in thread '12 Days of Likeshop - 2024 - it's time to go'

WHY DOES SOLGALEO SUCK ? (AND THUS SHOULD BE UNBANNED)​
Despite being one of the box legendaries for Sun and Moon, I have the utter conviction that Solgaleo would be completely fine in Gen 9 OU, and not even just that, I believe it wouldn't even be that good in OU (UUBL AT BEST !!!!!). You may think I'm crazy, and you may be right about that, but not for the reasons you might imagine. Let's take a closer look at Iron Mufasa over here.

1734481638405.png


At first glance, this mon has great stats ! Amazing bulk and pretty...
  • Like
  • Wow
  • Love

Go give your likes so we can free Iron Mufasa !!
Click to expand...
you're not going to bait me into giving that a haha
 
Magcargo said:
You've gotta run the same 2-3 options for hazard control and it gets boring fast.
Click to expand...
This is my main issue with the tier. There's no real room for exploration of team comps when Hazard Stack is undeniably one of the strongest compositions you can put together, with Samu, Ghold, +1 effectively making it extremely difficult to keep hazards off if your team doens't have 2, or even 3 at times slots dedicated to "fuck off already" of shit on the ground.

It *really* constraints team building, boots spam isn't fun and neither is having to make sure you have Tusk+1 to ensure the sheer ease of which spikes or rocks are laid are kept down. Saying this as one who doesn't hate tusk all that much, I just find it really boring how centralized the meta is around hazards and how select mons hasten the issue with their existence.

EDIT: Thinking about it, this is also why I find the more 'fun' mons so terrible at once as well. While all mons are hazard weak, some really do suffer more than others and being unable to effectively sure you can keep them off the field to actually use them sucks. I hate Boots Meow! I hate Boots Meow!
 
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