Let's talk about Zamazenta, too. I absolutely hate this dog. not only does it overshadow the othr fighters (cringe) it also is one of the MOST annoying Guess my set mons to deal with. absolutely toxic presence to the tier. Whatever the fuck your zama counter is, Zama will have a set at some point on ladder that will wreck it. Not only is that hyper toxic as a concept, it's even worse than Tera. You had to choose a Tera type that couldn't always help you to pick and choose who you can win against. The problem, with zama, is that it beats everything that is not a counter and can nuke its counter if so it wills. It's not even a "I live the Scarf lele Psychic now" it's a "I have sub. I can now have Crunch, stone edge, heavy slam, Psychic Fangs and Roar to fuck up any for of counter I want". There hasn't been enough tour games with this fucker dog to really judge what it does on the top lvels, but nothing forces more switches and can fuck up its counters with sheer luck and fish than this fucker dog. Nothing can run any set it wants and never be a deadweigh on any team better than this fucker dog. It actively contributes to the Deo S unban because then you can FINALLY Revenge kill it with soomething else than your scarfer or a bulky ahh mon, and that's if it doesn't tech Darkinium Z. So yea Zama makes the experience actively worse. you can't even use a phys attacker to smash it before it gets ID up, IT HAS A HUNDRED THIRTY EIGHT SPEED. because yea healthy presence of being a Dog better than Zydog for dog themed teams eek. Stab Body press on a Pokémon that gets free Def boost the first time it switches in? hell nah. you can arguably make a team without a completely dedicated BoltYard counter, but a Team that cannot take in account Ice fang psychic fangs crunch CC ID Howl Z Rock Z elec Z dark Wild Charge Stone Edge Bpress zamazenta gets axed within the first 3 mins of play. Healthy presence? skill check? fuck no. Mtoise wuz skill checking if your blissey could not get 2HKO'd by its aura sphere as much as Zama is skill checking if your ass can Handle a 120 attack perfect Coverage mon that has only Dory XXXL

as a Counter to all sets. I am tired af of this dog, I want it gone. I like new Meta and all but Taking Glastrier from me to give this fucker dog in return is awful shit. it doesn't drop to terap. it doesn't drop to ghol. it doesn't even drop to Mega Medicham! I cannot put into words how much I hate this dog, how it brings absolutely nothing to the tier, how it single-handedly makes the tier a shitfest. it should never have been unbanned. No Meta with this fucker dog relevant has EVER been enjoyable, and it doesn't seem to be changing. this dog can js hax thru its checks, dodge a contact status out of sheer luck, def drop Pex Dengo and bro out of the blue to kill them, even BU Buzzwole loses on the long run because this dog rewards Luck more than skill. No it's not about my game against moisture where Regieleki would've killed but it was asleep -due to Red Card Luck but that's what the item is all about- it's about the ladder being the least attractive button on showdown ever since Zama was unbanned. Nothing personal against any Zama enjoyer, but this dog needs to go.
I know how much you hate this mon and I doubt anything/anyone can change that but hopefully this helps:
- It doesn't overshadow other fighters since val, tusk, shifu, etc all do completely different things and tbh it's probably worse than both val and tusk rn. It's more comparable to mlop but even then mlop has prio, scrappy and generally has higher immediate power
- I think u severely, severely overestimate both Zama's set variety and the extent to which its coverage let it circumvent counterplay. Psyfangs and wild charge are moves you should pretty much never see since it doesn't let it beat pretty much anything (bouncing off mons it tries to target such as Toxapex and Slowbro etc).
- Imo AoA Zama (including Z moves) is one of the least offensively threatening mons to face, a simple Lando-T is usually enough to stop it from making progress or chip it into range of rkillers, even tanking ice fang in the worst case. You should usually have other stuff like alo, pex, zap, clef, ghold, pult too etc. As a side note, Dark-Z isn't really relevant to the Deo interaction since Deo-S outspeeds anyway and doesn't like taking normal crunch regardless
- It adds a lot of value precisely because of how much defensive utility it compresses in one slot
- By far the best id zama imo is id/press/edge/sub + pursuit guy so don't rely solely on volc/molt as ur zama check
- dropping sub feels really awful because you just get toxiced/statused etc since toxic distribution is so high
- You should go straight to your check/stopgap if id zama comes in (unless you are relying on ghosts since only press is boosted), it's not really a mon you should be messing around with
- Ladder as a whole is really terrible at building and playing vs this mon so i'll make a quick guide on what is and what is not good counterplay:
1. Haze pex - you need haze
2. Wisp pult (wisped gambit doesn't ohko pult with pursuit so you can keep it alive) - you cannot rely on dd pult
3. Bulky ghold (with colbur focus blast if you are scared of gambit) - you cannot rely solely on offensive gholdengo
4. psychic noise bro (or just helmet) - fsight with boots still beats it but less absolutely
5. earth power helmet lando (preferably not on its own) - worth noting epower is a roll to break sub on max hp zama, but it's still able to taunt to limit boosts and pressing into helmet still sucks
6. Zapdos (stone edge does around 40) - still should have something else as zapdos cannot ohko zama
7. Clefable + something accounting for heavy slam
8. Booster Valiant, and Encore if physical - you live uninvested heavy slam iirc
9. Helmet + ID on Skarm/Corv (1v1s if no Roar) - should not be sole countermeasure and usually isn't on the balance/fat teams they fit on
10. Hatt + something accounting for heavy slam - hatt should stone wall most id zamas
11. Gking (with colbur focus if scared of gambit) + probably smth like lando - gking is a very safe pivot
12. volc/molt + something else if stone edge - i've seen so many teams relying on volc as sole check... do NOT do this
13. lele + something for slam... scarf lele is especially good vs non slam sets
14. theres a lot of other stuff i cant be bothered listing
15. prob some random roar/encore stuff if you are really scared
- Zama cplay isn't really linear and most well built teams will naturally fit multiple means of counterplay to deal with it. e.g. common cores like lando + pult, val + ghold, clef + molt, lando + ghold, zap + ghold/clef also exist and are quite good to foolproof vs it. Hence, relying on more than one mon to be secure vs it isn't really unreasonable since the counterplay comes naturally in the building process regardless of zama's existence
Having played against you multiple times, I think it's definitely an issue with your builder and also in how you deal with the mon. I noticed you tend to build hyper offense teams that bring very poor counterplay against this mon, so there's a reason I brought zama vs you in all 3 games. Unlike some other stuff, id zama is a mon that you can't just outplay in game if you have no solid counterplay vs it, but have to directly address in the builder, and this tends to be fine since it has a ton of natural counterplay that should show up anyway.