Metagame National Dex Metagame Discussion

Hi I have come back to the tier and I have some questions, more from a newbie person POV really. What's the "best" style to play in the tier? It is possible that Sticky Web is less played than in OU? What are the staples of the tier, and what simple and actual team can I try to get a glance of National Dex and learn it? Thanks
- prob BO is best playstyle, Balance second
- Sticky Web prob significantly worse here since HO as a whole is worse and mons like Melmetal and especially Terapagos kind of demolish the structures.
- You can check out the VR here: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-viability-rankings-post-tera-ban.3756130/ for staples to account for
- No samples yet, but the bazaar has a lot of teams available here: https://www.smogon.com/forums/posts/10346654/
 
At the moment Darks are hella strong, Yard is hella strong, Ghol is hella present, I think it's time we start exploring the glorious Fighting Types with hell's Coverage Because they might just be the future. Fighting types that have got Coverage (Get out, Medicham :medicham-mega:) to hit what's meta rn. Obviously they have the non-negligible advantage of Resisting both Sucker Punch, Pursuit, Koff and U-turn most of the time, almost always having either SD or Bulk Up to boost their damage output as well as an existing bulk that serves them well. For example, Lele Moonblast cannot manage to OHKO Iron hands or Heracross-mega from full if they invest in HP. But what Fighting types exactly am I talking about? here:
-:gallade-mega: Mega Gallade (Poison Jab, Earthquake, stone edge, Triple axel, Close Combat, Drain Punch, Zen Headbutt, Shadow Sneak, Knock Off, Fire Punch, Aqua Cutter, Leaf Blade)
-:buzzwole: Buzzwole (Poison Jab, Close Combat, Lunge, Leech Life, Drain Punch, Darkest Lariat, Earthquake, Outrage, High Horsepower, Stone edge, Ice Punch, Dual Wingbeat)
-:heracross-mega: Mega Heracross (Close Combat, Pin Missile, Rock blast, Earthquake, High Horsepower, Knock Off, Bullet Seed, Trailblaze)

-:iron-hands: Iron Hands (Drain Punch, Close Combat, Ice Punch, Wild Charge, Supercell Slam, Heavy Slam, Earthquake, Play Rough, Iron Head, Rock Slide)
and, even if I hate it and it isn't underrated, Zamazenta:zamazenta: fits in this category as well (Ice Fang, Close Combat, Heavy Slam, Crunch, Stone Edge, Wild Charge)
Now why would they be underrated? Because Each and Every one of them Can Randomly Enough Pull Coverage outta their ass to KO an answer to it, Scarf Buzzwole might randomly bring Poison Jab and Kill Valiant and Lele, Stone edge to kill Zard and Moltres and Zapdos, Ice punch to wreck Lando, or Outrage to Snipe Dragapult and Raging Bolt. In a Gambit Mtar Meta, Can we afford to Overlook our Bulky Fighters? Also Medicham gets The elemental punches and Bullet Punch but its 60/85/85 Bulk is not NEARLY enough to qualify it as anything near Bulky.



Another underexplored Role imo is the old role of Cleric . with the rise of Pex:toxapex:, the arrival of status spreaders Dragapult:dragapult: and Gholdengo:gholdengo:, and the absolute domination of Hazards, when our best spinners:terapagos-stellar::great-tusk: do not have Recovery, I think good Old Florges :florges: Might Have a Niche as an Aromatherapier. Florges can, thanks to its Ho-oh level Special Defense, Switch into stuff. it also Packs 112 Spa STAB MoonBlasts, Wish, Defog, Magic Coat, Toxic and Synthesis to make up for its total absence of Ability. Hatterene:hatterene: also gets aromatherapy and I think it'd be neat to see what Paralysis Spreading + Aromatherapy can do on her. Clefable:clefable: sure gets Heal Bell n shi but it struggles Coming in on the absolute beasts that rule the tier rn, and has to pick between 2 excellent abilities, Suffers from Impossible levels of 4MSS, Imagine slotting in Heal Bell n Wish in there. Blissey:blissey: sure can switch in on all SPa Attackers and have a free turn but once Knocked it's Easily Pressured and forced to Soft Boiled instead of Serving the team. Serperior:serperior: can mix Florges and Hatt and Defog, aromatherapy and spread paralysis but it does not have enough bulk to pull that off efficiently. Weezing G:weezing-galar: can Aromatherapy and Defog on Ghold but what does Defog on Ghol means when it forces you out all day everyday? Anyways I do think that if a Cleric Set pops up and is actually usable it can really bring something to the tier.


Anyways dis be Metagame discussion guys Discuss
 
The problem with cleric support outside Stall is that it's very hard to find a pokemon that is both good, and can fit it in their moveset without compromising themselves. For example :Florges: needs Moonlight to stay healthy and obviously Moonblast for stab, so that leaves a single free slot which makes it very passive (also genuinely what does it even check at all). :Hatterene: has middling longterm bulk making it a hard fit on slower teams and it also doesn't love the presence of the returning steels which abuse it well, plus it's super slow. :Blissey: might fit it if you run it on Balance, but Blissey is already horribly passive and with the nerf to recovery moves is pretty underwhelming defensively when it doesn't do enough upon hitting the field. :Weezing-Galar: too passive to be run most of the time and invites too many scary threats in.

I'd be down for someone finding a way to incorporate some kind of cleric support if possible but I struggle to see it.
 
The problem with cleric support outside Stall is that it's very hard to find a pokemon that is both good, and can fit it in their moveset without compromising themselves. For example :Florges: needs Moonlight to stay healthy and obviously Moonblast for stab, so that leaves a single free slot which makes it very passive (also genuinely what does it even check at all). :Hatterene: has middling longterm bulk making it a hard fit on slower teams and it also doesn't love the presence of the returning steels which abuse it well, plus it's super slow. :Blissey: might fit it if you run it on Balance, but Blissey is already horribly passive and with the nerf to recovery moves is pretty underwhelming defensively when it doesn't do enough upon hitting the field. :Weezing-Galar: too passive to be run most of the time and invites too many scary threats in.

I'd be down for someone finding a way to incorporate some kind of cleric support if possible but I struggle to see it.
Florges is good for Raging Bolt & can work fine vs Kyurem too, tho that mon is kinda not in the best spot rn. Think it and sylveon might have some fringe use though finding it is harder here compared to OU since Toxic has more distribution.

Been using :Krookodile: lately and mon is kinda fire. I think I'll have to work out the kinks with it a bit more since coming up with more unique EV spreads for it can be hard, but mon basically compresses the utility of Gambit and Lando-T into one slot, with its typing + Intimidate giving it some decent MUs into a few common mons like Kingambit, Raging Bolt, and Gholdengo. Been trying Roseli Berry Rocks and its pretty good, but I think some other sets with AV or more mixed investment could be worth exploring to better trap its targets.
 
What was the ev spreads for your :heracross-mega: heracross as I am thinking of making a team with it :quagchamppogsire:
There ye go, My set, You outspeed The Contact Birds, you May LIve a specs Draga after rocks, sometimes. and if some random shi happens -vough, tbolt para, cough- you have guts as a backup before mega
(Heracross-Mega) @ Heracronite
Ability: Guts
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 48 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 204 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Pin Missile
- Rock Blast
- Knock Off

needs Moonlight to stay healthy and obviously Moonblast for stab, so that leaves a single free slot which makes it very passive (also genuinely what does it even check at all).
First off it's Synthesis, second off it checks Special pult, switches in on Rbolt, Special Ival or Ival in general, prolly wins duel vs Tinglu but I dunno for sure, 252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Florges in Sun: 153-180 (42.5 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO, remember that Synth is 66% heal under the sun. Toxic Psychic noise wish n defog are nice options too as the last move. aromatherapy can also be used on lele if u wanna go for a set that abuses the free switches you can slot in Aromatherapy, tho florges does it better.
 
Let's talk about Zamazenta, too. I absolutely hate this dog. not only does it overshadow the othr fighters (cringe) it also is one of the MOST annoying Guess my set mons to deal with. absolutely toxic presence to the tier. Whatever the fuck your zama counter is, Zama will have a set at some point on ladder that will wreck it. Not only is that hyper toxic as a concept, it's even worse than Tera. You had to choose a Tera type that couldn't always help you to pick and choose who you can win against. The problem, with zama, is that it beats everything that is not a counter and can nuke its counter if so it wills. It's not even a "I live the Scarf lele Psychic now" it's a "I have sub. I can now have Crunch, stone edge, heavy slam, Psychic Fangs and Roar to fuck up any for of counter I want". There hasn't been enough tour games with this fucker dog to really judge what it does on the top lvels, but nothing forces more switches and can fuck up its counters with sheer luck and fish than this fucker dog. Nothing can run any set it wants and never be a deadweigh on any team better than this fucker dog. It actively contributes to the Deo S unban because then you can FINALLY Revenge kill it with soomething else than your scarfer or a bulky ahh mon, and that's if it doesn't tech Darkinium Z. So yea Zama makes the experience actively worse. you can't even use a phys attacker to smash it before it gets ID up, IT HAS A HUNDRED THIRTY EIGHT SPEED. because yea healthy presence of being a Dog better than Zydog for dog themed teams eek. Stab Body press on a Pokémon that gets free Def boost the first time it switches in? hell nah. you can arguably make a team without a completely dedicated BoltYard counter, but a Team that cannot take in account Ice fang psychic fangs crunch CC ID Howl Z Rock Z elec Z dark Wild Charge Stone Edge Bpress zamazenta gets axed within the first 3 mins of play. Healthy presence? skill check? fuck no. Mtoise wuz skill checking if your blissey could not get 2HKO'd by its aura sphere as much as Zama is skill checking if your ass can Handle a 120 attack perfect Coverage mon that has only Dory XXXL :dondozo: as a Counter to all sets. I am tired af of this dog, I want it gone. I like new Meta and all but Taking Glastrier from me to give this fucker dog in return is awful shit. it doesn't drop to terap. it doesn't drop to ghol. it doesn't even drop to Mega Medicham! I cannot put into words how much I hate this dog, how it brings absolutely nothing to the tier, how it single-handedly makes the tier a shitfest. it should never have been unbanned. No Meta with this fucker dog relevant has EVER been enjoyable, and it doesn't seem to be changing. this dog can js hax thru its checks, dodge a contact status out of sheer luck, def drop Pex Dengo and bro out of the blue to kill them, even BU Buzzwole loses on the long run because this dog rewards Luck more than skill. No it's not about my game against moisture where Regieleki would've killed but it was asleep -due to Red Card Luck but that's what the item is all about- it's about the ladder being the least attractive button on showdown ever since Zama was unbanned. Nothing personal against any Zama enjoyer, but this dog needs to go.
 
Let's talk about Zamazenta, too. I absolutely hate this dog. not only does it overshadow the othr fighters (cringe) it also is one of the MOST annoying Guess my set mons to deal with. absolutely toxic presence to the tier. Whatever the fuck your zama counter is, Zama will have a set at some point on ladder that will wreck it. Not only is that hyper toxic as a concept, it's even worse than Tera. You had to choose a Tera type that couldn't always help you to pick and choose who you can win against. The problem, with zama, is that it beats everything that is not a counter and can nuke its counter if so it wills. It's not even a "I live the Scarf lele Psychic now" it's a "I have sub. I can now have Crunch, stone edge, heavy slam, Psychic Fangs and Roar to fuck up any for of counter I want". There hasn't been enough tour games with this fucker dog to really judge what it does on the top lvels, but nothing forces more switches and can fuck up its counters with sheer luck and fish than this fucker dog. Nothing can run any set it wants and never be a deadweigh on any team better than this fucker dog. It actively contributes to the Deo S unban because then you can FINALLY Revenge kill it with soomething else than your scarfer or a bulky ahh mon, and that's if it doesn't tech Darkinium Z. So yea Zama makes the experience actively worse. you can't even use a phys attacker to smash it before it gets ID up, IT HAS A HUNDRED THIRTY EIGHT SPEED. because yea healthy presence of being a Dog better than Zydog for dog themed teams eek. Stab Body press on a Pokémon that gets free Def boost the first time it switches in? hell nah. you can arguably make a team without a completely dedicated BoltYard counter, but a Team that cannot take in account Ice fang psychic fangs crunch CC ID Howl Z Rock Z elec Z dark Wild Charge Stone Edge Bpress zamazenta gets axed within the first 3 mins of play. Healthy presence? skill check? fuck no. Mtoise wuz skill checking if your blissey could not get 2HKO'd by its aura sphere as much as Zama is skill checking if your ass can Handle a 120 attack perfect Coverage mon that has only Dory XXXL :dondozo: as a Counter to all sets. I am tired af of this dog, I want it gone. I like new Meta and all but Taking Glastrier from me to give this fucker dog in return is awful shit. it doesn't drop to terap. it doesn't drop to ghol. it doesn't even drop to Mega Medicham! I cannot put into words how much I hate this dog, how it brings absolutely nothing to the tier, how it single-handedly makes the tier a shitfest. it should never have been unbanned. No Meta with this fucker dog relevant has EVER been enjoyable, and it doesn't seem to be changing. this dog can js hax thru its checks, dodge a contact status out of sheer luck, def drop Pex Dengo and bro out of the blue to kill them, even BU Buzzwole loses on the long run because this dog rewards Luck more than skill. No it's not about my game against moisture where Regieleki would've killed but it was asleep -due to Red Card Luck but that's what the item is all about- it's about the ladder being the least attractive button on showdown ever since Zama was unbanned. Nothing personal against any Zama enjoyer, but this dog needs to go.
just load buzzwole bro
 
Let's talk about Zamazenta, too. I absolutely hate this dog. not only does it overshadow the othr fighters (cringe) it also is one of the MOST annoying Guess my set mons to deal with. absolutely toxic presence to the tier. Whatever the fuck your zama counter is, Zama will have a set at some point on ladder that will wreck it. Not only is that hyper toxic as a concept, it's even worse than Tera. You had to choose a Tera type that couldn't always help you to pick and choose who you can win against. The problem, with zama, is that it beats everything that is not a counter and can nuke its counter if so it wills. It's not even a "I live the Scarf lele Psychic now" it's a "I have sub. I can now have Crunch, stone edge, heavy slam, Psychic Fangs and Roar to fuck up any for of counter I want". There hasn't been enough tour games with this fucker dog to really judge what it does on the top lvels, but nothing forces more switches and can fuck up its counters with sheer luck and fish than this fucker dog. Nothing can run any set it wants and never be a deadweigh on any team better than this fucker dog. It actively contributes to the Deo S unban because then you can FINALLY Revenge kill it with soomething else than your scarfer or a bulky ahh mon, and that's if it doesn't tech Darkinium Z. So yea Zama makes the experience actively worse. you can't even use a phys attacker to smash it before it gets ID up, IT HAS A HUNDRED THIRTY EIGHT SPEED. because yea healthy presence of being a Dog better than Zydog for dog themed teams eek. Stab Body press on a Pokémon that gets free Def boost the first time it switches in? hell nah. you can arguably make a team without a completely dedicated BoltYard counter, but a Team that cannot take in account Ice fang psychic fangs crunch CC ID Howl Z Rock Z elec Z dark Wild Charge Stone Edge Bpress zamazenta gets axed within the first 3 mins of play. Healthy presence? skill check? fuck no. Mtoise wuz skill checking if your blissey could not get 2HKO'd by its aura sphere as much as Zama is skill checking if your ass can Handle a 120 attack perfect Coverage mon that has only Dory XXXL :dondozo: as a Counter to all sets. I am tired af of this dog, I want it gone. I like new Meta and all but Taking Glastrier from me to give this fucker dog in return is awful shit. it doesn't drop to terap. it doesn't drop to ghol. it doesn't even drop to Mega Medicham! I cannot put into words how much I hate this dog, how it brings absolutely nothing to the tier, how it single-handedly makes the tier a shitfest. it should never have been unbanned. No Meta with this fucker dog relevant has EVER been enjoyable, and it doesn't seem to be changing. this dog can js hax thru its checks, dodge a contact status out of sheer luck, def drop Pex Dengo and bro out of the blue to kill them, even BU Buzzwole loses on the long run because this dog rewards Luck more than skill. No it's not about my game against moisture where Regieleki would've killed but it was asleep -due to Red Card Luck but that's what the item is all about- it's about the ladder being the least attractive button on showdown ever since Zama was unbanned. Nothing personal against any Zama enjoyer, but this dog needs to go.
I know how much you hate this mon and I doubt anything/anyone can change that but hopefully this helps:
- It doesn't overshadow other fighters since val, tusk, shifu, etc all do completely different things and tbh it's probably worse than both val and tusk rn. It's more comparable to mlop but even then mlop has prio, scrappy and generally has higher immediate power
- I think u severely, severely overestimate both Zama's set variety and the extent to which its coverage let it circumvent counterplay. Psyfangs and wild charge are moves you should pretty much never see since it doesn't let it beat pretty much anything (bouncing off mons it tries to target such as Toxapex and Slowbro etc).
- Imo AoA Zama (including Z moves) is one of the least offensively threatening mons to face, a simple Lando-T is usually enough to stop it from making progress or chip it into range of rkillers, even tanking ice fang in the worst case. You should usually have other stuff like alo, pex, zap, clef, ghold, pult too etc. As a side note, Dark-Z isn't really relevant to the Deo interaction since Deo-S outspeeds anyway and doesn't like taking normal crunch regardless
- It adds a lot of value precisely because of how much defensive utility it compresses in one slot
- By far the best id zama imo is id/press/edge/sub + pursuit guy so don't rely solely on volc/molt as ur zama check
- dropping sub feels really awful because you just get toxiced/statused etc since toxic distribution is so high
- You should go straight to your check/stopgap if id zama comes in (unless you are relying on ghosts since only press is boosted), it's not really a mon you should be messing around with

- Ladder as a whole is really terrible at building and playing vs this mon so i'll make a quick guide on what is and what is not good counterplay:
1. Haze pex - you need haze
2. Wisp pult (wisped gambit doesn't ohko pult with pursuit so you can keep it alive) - you cannot rely on dd pult
3. Bulky ghold (with colbur focus blast if you are scared of gambit) - you cannot rely solely on offensive gholdengo
4. psychic noise bro (or just helmet) - fsight with boots still beats it but less absolutely
5. earth power helmet lando (preferably not on its own) - worth noting epower is a roll to break sub on max hp zama, but it's still able to taunt to limit boosts and pressing into helmet still sucks
6. Zapdos (stone edge does around 40) - still should have something else as zapdos cannot ohko zama
7. Clefable + something accounting for heavy slam
8. Booster Valiant, and Encore if physical - you live uninvested heavy slam iirc
9. Helmet + ID on Skarm/Corv (1v1s if no Roar) - should not be sole countermeasure and usually isn't on the balance/fat teams they fit on
10. Hatt + something accounting for heavy slam - hatt should stone wall most id zamas
11. Gking (with colbur focus if scared of gambit) + probably smth like lando - gking is a very safe pivot
12. volc/molt + something else if stone edge - i've seen so many teams relying on volc as sole check... do NOT do this
13. lele + something for slam... scarf lele is especially good vs non slam sets
14. theres a lot of other stuff i cant be bothered listing
15. prob some random roar/encore stuff if you are really scared

- Zama cplay isn't really linear and most well built teams will naturally fit multiple means of counterplay to deal with it. e.g. common cores like lando + pult, val + ghold, clef + molt, lando + ghold, zap + ghold/clef also exist and are quite good to foolproof vs it. Hence, relying on more than one mon to be secure vs it isn't really unreasonable since the counterplay comes naturally in the building process regardless of zama's existence

Having played against you multiple times, I think it's definitely an issue with your builder and also in how you deal with the mon. I noticed you tend to build hyper offense teams that bring very poor counterplay against this mon, so there's a reason I brought zama vs you in all 3 games. Unlike some other stuff, id zama is a mon that you can't just outplay in game if you have no solid counterplay vs it, but have to directly address in the builder, and this tends to be fine since it has a ton of natural counterplay that should show up anyway.
 
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Ngl I forgot we can run lefties on him as a viable thing as well since I mainly use rocky helmet for that sweet chip damage and boots if I can lol. Speaking off, is may people noticing that flynium-z has been used on lando-t lately or is it just me? (I'm on an alt rn in low ladder, almost reaching midpoint ladder but my ego cycle is affecting my mus again lol)
 
can we talk about how koko is the best mon in OU?

its putting up 2016 curry numbers
While I do feel like koko is really good right now, it does have pult as competition. While it isn’t weak to pursuit, it’s slower, and has less set variety. Pult also gets wisp and t-wave as well as your opponent not being able to as easily know the set.

The biggest plus for koko is you get to run quark drive mon with the boost and an item. While it works best with terrain extender it works fine with out it to. I’d say koko isn’t the best mon right now(I’d say that’s pult or lando-t) it’s definitely really good and one of the better mons in the tier.
 
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Doubter: The ghosts of Dragapult and Gholdengo? You would call upon them to this tier? They offer nothing. They answer to no one.

Believer: They will answer to the true King of Paldea!

1734559825692.png

Doubter: ... Kingambit. The evolution of Bisharp... born from the steel of the Leader's Crest. Smogon will not have forgotten the sword of Kowtow Kleave. The dark-type that was banned shall return to National Dex.

Believer: The trainer that wields Kingambit shall be able to face down the most terrifying sweepers unleashed. Put aside Tera and become who you were born to be. Take the road to National Dex OU.
 
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Full sun is probably bad but my god I love Banded Victini. Timeless brainless mon. Click Vcreate, big damage.

Idk what else to put on the team though lol. Torkoal, Venusaur, Lando, Tapu Lele, shit idk it just works as long as you get Vic in there to blow shit up. Also Victini completely owns Tapu Lele so it’s lit.

I’m thinking of throwing Blaziken or Kommo-O behind Vic to abuse pursuiters. You sure you want to pursuit me? Ha ha.
 
Full sun is probably bad but my god I love Banded Victini. Timeless brainless mon. Click Vcreate, big damage.

Idk what else to put on the team though lol. Torkoal, Venusaur, Lando, Tapu Lele, shit idk it just works as long as you get Vic in there to blow shit up. Also Victini completely owns Tapu Lele so it’s lit.

I’m thinking of throwing Blaziken or Kommo-O behind Vic to abuse pursuiters. You sure you want to pursuit me? Ha ha.
What I am sure you have to include is ZardY, if you want to click buttons just try it... Weather Ball 2HKO most of the metagame and when it doesn't you just can spam Solar Beam or Sorching Sands... I like to combine suns with Protosynthesis users such as Great Tusk, Raging Bolt...

By the way what do you think of Scarf :Landorus-Therian:, I think it is my favourite set at the moment...
 
Full sun is probably bad but my god I love Banded Victini. Timeless brainless mon. Click Vcreate, big damage.
I used it on a sun team when gen 9 started and it was a ton of fun. Recently I’ve gotten surprised by banded Victini a couple of times. It’s great but having tusk for hazard control is a must. Granted you would already be using a sun team so you’d probably already have it on.
 
Slaking Could've been so good but game freak had to make it insufferable and trash... its been like 4... 14 years?

He could've been the chosen one. could've had a regional variant but NO gamefreak hates the guy..

How exactly is this relevant to natdex
By the way what do you think of Scarf :Landorus-Therian:, I think it is my favourite set at the moment...
Scarf lando is alright but nothing too terribly special
Doubter: The ghosts of Dragapult and Gholdengo? You would call upon them to this tier? They offer nothing. They answer to no one.

Believer: They will answer to the true King of Paldea!

View attachment 696500
Doubter: ... Kingambit. The evolution of Bisharp... born from the steel of the Leader's Crest. Smogon will not have forgotten the sword of Kowtow Kleave. The dark-type that was banned shall return to National Dex.

Believer: The trainer that wields Kingambit shall be able to face down the most terrifying sweepers unleashed. Put aside Tera and become who you were born to be. Take the road to National Dex OU.
What in the larp
 
Aegislash sees better use on stall or bulky balance!
Aeguslash is a mon I’ve been meaning to experiment with for a while. It seems really good on bulky balance especially with wish support.

Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
- Toxic
- King's Shield

I came up with this set in about a minutes so there’s a lot of room for improvement but I think it could gets the idea across. Being able to hit hard while being able to toxic stall and take hits is great in a mon. From just looking at the teambuilder some of the bigger issues is its bad matchups into zard-y, gambit, maybe pult and the many good ground types. However it matches up well into mons like, urshifu, wogerpon, melmetal and others. If anyone knows this mon or has any experience with it please feel free to correct me, as I have yet to even use it.
 
How have people reacted to Deoxys-S. Has the meta become better or worse, or neutral?

Down to hear people discuss.
In my opinion Deo-S is definitely not broken, even on PsySpam teams it still kinda feel like it's lacking a bit in power even if has a shitton of coverage and blazing speed. Most of the things I thought it could break it like Hazards-Setting and Screens are something already done better by other mons like Hamurott, Lando-T, M-Dia, Grimm or Koko and on the offensive side there's so much stuff more scarier than it even a +2 and how hard it is to get setup chances on for starts. It's a good mon but definitely something not broken.
 
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