Project OM Mashup Megathread

:sv/excadrill::sv/magnezone:

Excadrill and Magnet Pull are banned from PokeBH!
aerobee
ANinjaDude
Clas
NoobSpammer
Lysion
rightclicker
The Hisui Region
Result (Y-N-A)
Excadrill
BAN​
BAN​
BAN​
BAN​
BAN​
BAN​
BAN​
7-0-0 BAN​
Magnet Pull
BAN​
BAN​
ABS​
BAN​
BAN​
BAN​
BAN​
6-0-1 BAN​
Chi-Yu
DNB​
DNB​
DNB​
DNB​
DNB​
DNB​
BAN​
1-6-0 DNB​
Charizard-Mega-Y
BAN​
DNB​
DNB​
ABS​
ABS​
DNB​
DNB​
1-4-2 DNB​
Regenerator + FurScales
BAN​
DNB​
DNB​
ABS​
ABS​
BAN​
DNB​
2-3-2 DNB​

:excadrill:
Excadrill on sand really only had Ability Shield Fur Coat mons as defensive counterplay, as anything else would fall victim to at least one of Banded Tinted Lens/Sword of Ruin sets or setup variants after a boost. Offensive counterplay was also spread thin thanks to Sand Rush.

:magnezone:
After a bit of experimentation, Magnet Pull has proven to be unreasonably hard to account for in practice, as Magnet Pull users can trap Imposter, as well as themselves, without a free turn due to their additional Ability. Magnet Pull users' potential to trap passive Steel-types and set up to oblivion was deemed uncompetitive.
 
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STABmons Ubers Survey Results + Bans.

Hey all! Apologies for the delay. But it's about time we show off the results of our recent survey! Big thank you goes out to everyone who participated, you're doing a good part to make this tier better!

How Much Would You Say You're Enjoying the Current Meta?

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Quite a bit, so it would seem. Awesome! We didn't quite reach a 5, but the results are decently high! Glad to see the reception of this tier is quite solid among the admittedly small playerbase.

How Competitive Do You Think the Current Meta is?

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Ouch, quite the drop off from enjoyability. Well, let's see how much we can fix that with the results of our Pokemon and moves that were on the chopping block!

How do You Feel About Shift Gear in the Current Meta?
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Overall opinion doesn't seem to lean too extremely one way or another, for now no action will be taken on it, but a certain other Steel move can't claim to be so lucky.
How Do You Feel About Gigaton Hammer in the Current Meta?
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Let's address the...uh...hammer, that broke the camel's back. Gigaton Hammer scored FAR higher than Shift Gear. Overall being seen much more problematic than it. Voting action will be taken on it.

How Do You Feel About Eternatus in the Meta?
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Fair enough, Eternatus is hardly seen as anything too overbearing at the moment, action will not be taken.

How Do You Feel About Clangorous Soul in the Meta?
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Clangorous Soul on the other hand, is leaning towards being a bit of a concern among the playerbase. A vote will be held on this move to determine its place in the tier.

How Do You Feel About Ursaluna in the Meta?
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People aren't quite jumpscared by this bear, so there's no sense to act on it, no matter how scary it is.

How Do You Feel About Enamorus Incarnate in the Meta?
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Overall a lot more concern regarding Enamorus Incarnate than most Pokemon in the tier, a vote will be held to determine its placement in the tier from here on out.

How Do You Feel About Kyogre in the Meta?
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This is not a Pokemon we have heard much concern about but simply wanted to garner thoughts on due to its notoriously dubious presence in Ubers environments, no action will be taken.

How Do You Feel About Terrastalization in the Meta?
1732915156973.png

Here's where we see things start to become problematic. Terrastalization is an obviously controversial mechanic in any metagame it finds itself in, as such we wanted to garner thoughts on it. Seeing as the community is leaning more towards this mechanic being an issue than not, a vote will be held to determine its position.

Voting Slate
List​
Neon​
Velcroc​
Jess​
Gigaton Hammer
BAN
BAN
BAN
Clangorous Soul
BAN
DNB
BAN
Enamorus Incarnate
BAN
BAN
ABSTAIN
Terrastalization
BAN
BAN
BAN

The results are in! As a result of this survey and slate.

Gigaton Hammer, Clangorous Soul, Enamorus Incarnate, and Terrastalization are Banned from STABmons Ubers!

Thank you for your participation! Your continued feedback will be useful in continuing to make this tier the best it can be! You can expect some new changes to resources to compensate for these changes soon!
 
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Mix and Mega Doubles Hub


What is Mix and Mega Doubles?
Mix and Mega Doubles (shortened to MnM Doubles) is a mashup combining Mix and Mega with the Doubles Ubers format, creating an entirely different metagame to the singles Mix and Mega metagame. Pokemon can use Mega Stones to gain the stats and abilities of their respective Mega Evolutions, with no limit to the number of Pokemon that can Mega Evolve in a battle.

For example:

:sv/iron-hands:
Iron Hands @ Manectite
Ability: Quark Drive -> Intimidate
EVs: 60 HP / 128 Atk / 68 Def / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Wild Charge
- Drain Punch / Close Combat
- Volt Switch / Ice Punch
Pre-Mega Stats: 154/140/108/50/68/50
Post-Mega Stats: 154/140/128/80/88/80

While not gaining any Attack, Manectite Iron Hands is still an excellent Fake Out user thanks to its stellar bulk, good typing, and ability to pivot with Volt Switch. Manectite grants Iron Hands the ability Intimidate, which has immense value against physical attackers not using the Galladite, Lopunnite or Clear Amulet, alongside a speed boost and a small bump to both of its defenses. The given spread lets Iron Hands OHKO uninvested Kyogre while surviving a max power +1 Water Spout, with the rest going into Defense to help improve its physical bulk.


:sv/volcanion:
Volcanion @ Latiasite
Ability: Water Absorb -> Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Steam Eruption
- Heat Wave
- Earth Power / Roar
- Protect
Pre-Mega Stats: 80/110/120/130/90/70
Post-Mega Stats: 80/130/150/160/110/70

Latiasite Volcanion makes the most of its environment, using Latiasite's Levitate and good bulk increase alongside its pre-Mega ability Water Absorb to check a large portion of the meta! Earth Power hits opposing Volcanion pre-Mega, while Roar forces out dangerous setup users like Dragonite and Trick Room users like Cresselia.


How do I play?
During the month of December 2024, MnM Doubles is featured as Leader's Choice of the Month and can be played on the ladder! It can always be played on the ROM server, though, under the [Gen 9] Mix and Mega Doubles format.


Council
:arbok: Clas
:zoroark-hisui: HiZo
:typhlosion-hisui: TrainerGoldAlt

Tiering History

Ruleset
Clauses

  • Species Clause: Prevents teams from having more than one Pokémon from the same species
  • Nickname Clause: Prevents teams from having more than one Pokémon with the same nickname
  • OHKO Clause: Bans all OHKO moves, such as Fissure
  • Evasion Moves Clause: Bans moves that consistently raise the user's evasion when used
  • Gravity Sleep Clause: Bans sleep moves below 100% accuracy, in conjunction with Gravity
  • Endless Battle Clause: Prevents players from forcing a battle which their opponent cannot end except by forfeit
  • Terastal Clause: Prevents Pokémon from Terastallizing

Banlist
Banned Pokemon
  • :calyrex-shadow:Calyrex-Shadow
  • :koraidon:Koraidon
  • :miraidon:Miraidon
Restricted Pokemon
  • :arceus:Arceus
  • :calyrex-ice:Calyrex-Ice
  • :deoxys:Deoxys-Normal
  • :deoxys-attack:Deoxys-Attack
  • :dialga:Dialga
  • :dondozo:Dondozo
  • :eternatus:Eternatus
  • :flutter-mane:Flutter Mane
  • :giratina:Giratina
  • :groudon:Groudon
  • :ho-oh:Ho-Oh
  • :kyogre:Kyogre
  • :kyurem-black:Kyurem-Black
  • :kyurem-white:Kyurem-White
  • :lugia:Lugia
  • :lunala:Lunala
  • :magearna:Magearna
  • :mewtwo:Mewtwo
  • :necrozma-dawn-wings:Necrozma-Dawn-Wings
  • :necrozma-dusk-mane:Necrozma-Dusk-Mane
  • :palkia:Palkia
  • :rayquaza:Rayquaza
  • :regigigas:Regigigas
  • :reshiram:Reshiram
  • :slaking:Slaking
  • :solgaleo:Solgaleo
  • :ursaluna-bloodmoon:Ursaluna-Bloodmoon
  • :urshifu-rapid-strike:Urshifu-Rapid-Strike
  • :zacian:Zacian
  • :zamazenta:Zamazenta
  • :zekrom:Zekrom
  • :banettite:Banettite
  • :beedrillite:Beedrillite
  • :Blazikenite:Blazikenite
  • :blue-orb:Blue Orb
  • :gengarite:Gengarite
  • :Kangaskhanite:Kangaskhanite
  • :mawilite:Mawilite
  • :medichamite:Medichamite
  • :pidgeotite:Pidgeotite
  • :red-orb:Red Orb
  • Moody
  • Shadow Tag

Watchlist
  • :kyogre:Kyogre
  • :magearna:Magearna
  • :annihilape:Annihilape (Mega Stone legality)
  • :urshifu:Urshifu (Mega Stone legality)
  • :charizardite-y:Charizardite-Y
  • :swampertite:Swampertite

Resources
TBA! But you can always join the OM Mashups Discord server (or for the month of December 2024 talk about it in the LCotM channel in the Other Metas Discord) :)
 
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I builted this and Clas topped the day 1 ladder with it (hizo returns to omms?????)
:pmd/iron crown: :pmd/indeedee-f: :pmd/lunala: :pmd/zamazenta: :pmd/ursaluna-bloodmoon: :pmd/hoopa-unbound:

Psyspam goes brrrrrr

Manectite Iron Crown good into random ates and super bulky to come in multiple times.

Galladite Zamazenta is super fast, super bulky, and catches a lot of people off guard with random wide guard

Pixilate Ursaluna-Bloodmoon brokey

Sablenite Hoopa-U speedties Caly-I and gains a surprising defensive profile so that it can actually tank physical hits
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I got my own ladder peak - here's the pretty fun team I've been using:

:pmd/magearna::pmd/annihilape::pmd/iron-hands::pmd/calyrex-ice::pmd/ursaluna-bloodmoon::pmd/Groudon:

Ape does final gambit things - you lead it with Magearna into basically any matchup, and give it +2 SpA. Magearna almost always gets Trick Room up, and you do big damage from there - Cameruptite Enamorus-T is a consideration over Alt Bloodmoon for SF boosted springtides, but I don't like missing, and Bloodmoon is plenty strong already + second stab. Iron Hands gains a useful immunity through Latiasite, Calyrex does Calyrex things (I think it may be better to shift the 1iv speed to Calyrex, it didn't come up super often but I think you want hands to move first in trick room next to Calyrex). Finally, Groudon is here to reset the weather and be cool like that - preferred over Torkoal cus bulk.

Thoughts on the meta:
- ew Magearna
- ew rain - why did we free mega archaludon and mega last respects and kyogre
- dozo is actually fine but still ew mega
dozo
- trick room is insane, and I'm probably not using the best legs for it
 
Couple teams I made for MnM doubles, I climb with a 90% winrate with this stuff :

Snow semiroom : https://pokepast.es/a5335e4f853efb10
Haze might be more optimal for Volcanion because of Dondozo

Sun fullroom : https://pokepast.es/b5691d238a3dc392

Howl setup : https://pokepast.es/4782a7619bdd9130
I kept Abomasite for weather disruption

Sand prankster corviknight : https://pokepast.es/cbe23e7c49234e70
Corviknight is better than Dragonite because of being able to resist Fairy

Magearna rain : https://pokepast.es/9f059de9158f86d0

What i noticed
  • Levitate Volcanion is Tier 1 or 2, resisting Fairy Ground Water Fire is too good in this meta
  • Pixilate Extreme Speed is very good
  • Trick Room is good as usual
  • Magearna is very good
  • Rain is just ok
  • You need to consider Dondozo in the builder, but Haze is much easier to fit on a team.
  • Mold Breaker/Turboblaze are very good due to the amount of Sablenite/Latiasite running around
  • Calyrex-Shadow being banned means the Ghost Ubers are good again
  • Sablenite is the best
 
Day 2 voting!
Clas HiZo TrainerGoldAlt Total
Ursaluna-BloodmoonRestrictRestrictRestrict3-0 Restrict
ZamazentaDo not restrictDo not restrictDo not restrict0-3 Do not restrict
Urshifu-Single-StrikeDo not restrictDo not restrictDo not restrict0-3 Do not restrict
DondozoRestrictRestrictRestrict3-0 Restrict
After YouBanBanDo not ban2-1 Ban

Dondozo and Ursaluna-Bloodmoon are now restricted! After You is banned!


:ursaluna-bloodmoon:
Ursaluna was a pretty crazy Pokemon with Altarianite or Pinsirite plus Trick Room, Tailwind, or After You support. Its Normal-type moves were "balanced" around having no super-effective targets, but that gets thrown out the window with -ate Abilities.

:dondozo:
Dondozo was honestly a brain fart on my part and I forgot that it was eligible for Mega Evolution + Commander simultaneously. Lopunnite was the main Mega Stone used, but others like Pinsirite, Charizardite X, and Galladite were also discussed and trying to make a balanced, healthy meta with something like this isn't happening.

:clefable::moltres-galar::vileplume:
After You is a strange one at first, only being on a few Pokemon and having 0 priority. Until Banettite is used, and now any Pokemon can fire off absolutely insane attacks before the rest of the metagame without any prior setup or similar, even if they shouldn't be. We agreed that it was best to hit the move and not the Pokemon using it, since the actual After You users never had to be good in the first place.

We'll be watching the meta unfold for a bit longer, where we hopefully will see it stabilize. Zamazenta and Urshifu-SS will be added to the watchlist, but don't expect any quickbans in the near future unless necessary.


Tagging dhelmise for implementation, ty
 
Funny idea, similar in effect to how torkoal lilli work normally
:Kyogre: @ Choice Specs
Ability: Drizzle
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest / Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Water Spout
- Origin Pulse
- Surf / Thunder / Blizzard
- Ice Beam / Blizzard

:Indeedee: (M) @ Swampertite
Ability: Psychic Surge
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Skill Swap
- Expanding Force
- Healing Wish
- Helping Hand

No Idea how practical it is but you Mega, skill swap with the boosted speed, Kyogre gets the boosted speed, specs spout go burr.
 
After a bit of tinkering and testing, I have created a Pokebilities BH team that I am quite happy with.

:Bronzong: and :Zamazenta: work together as a good FC core, double Ability Shields mean that it's very annoying for things like entrainment pokemon or potential Mold Breaker users(it's also a relic from when Exca and MGyara were legal).

:Toxapex: is an incredibly powerful special wall, and is a fairly reliable hazard remover, though it suffers from passivity a fair bit.

:Arceus-Ground: is the team's main Special pressure, and can tank 1 hit from most fast mons, and threaten slower mons, while also being a stopgap imp proof for :Toxxapex:

:Aerodactyl-Mega: is a replacement for :Zacian-Crowned: because this team was originally made before the challenge code had forme lock enabled for the dog. It's a fast physical threat that can really fuck up offensive pokemon like :Dragapult:, :Sceptile-Mega: or :Flutter Mane:

:Chansey: does Imp stuff, nothing special about it.
 
Last Respects needs to be banned in M&M doubles. Rain being good with Kyogre and Prankster support means Basculegion can dominate any endgame that doesn't involve Trick Room, especially since this is a 6v6 format. Houndstone too can do some swimming of its own with Swampertite. Or one can run Tyranitarite on a pivot like Landorus-T to boost the dog.

Its ridiculously easy to support the LR mon too with standard stuff like Intimidate (to weaken -ate ExtremeSpeeds from Dragonite and friends) , U-turn (getting it on the field), Psychic Terrain (not as reliable, but still) etc
 
Last Respects needs to be banned in M&M doubles. Rain being good with Kyogre and Prankster support means Basculegion can dominate any endgame that doesn't involve Trick Room, especially since this is a 6v6 format. Houndstone too can do some swimming of its own with Swampertite. Or one can run Tyranitarite on a pivot like Landorus-T to boost the dog.

Its ridiculously easy to support the LR mon too with standard stuff like Intimidate (to weaken -ate ExtremeSpeeds from Dragonite and friends) , U-turn (getting it on the field), Psychic Terrain (not as reliable, but still) etc
in practice its not that broken bc of how poor the move is without immense support + the amount of effort required to even get off the move in a format dominated by weather and speed control. basculegion is really the only good abuser, and swampertite is what makes it good in the first place. that being said, it may get harder to answer swampertite as a whole after this announcement:

Clas Glimmer ratpacker TrainerGoldAlt Result
MagearnaRestrictRestrictRestrictRestrict4-0 Restrict
UrshifuAbstainDo Not RestrictDo Not RestrictAbstain0-2 Do Not Restrict
ZamazentaAbstainRestrictDo Not RestrictRestrict2-1 Restrict
BanettiteRestrictRestrictRestrictRestrict4-0 Restrict

Magearna and Zamazenta are now restricted, while Banettite is now banned!
(this also means After You is legal again and Gravity Sleep Clause is active over Sleep Clause Mod)

:magearna:
Magearna was obviously broken with Mega Stones to anyone who had played even one game with or against it. Its ability to sweep with Calm Mind and Soul-Heart paired with either Latiasite to remove its Ground weakness or Sablenite to make it near-impossible to remove alongside Draining Kiss for recovery was far too much for the meta.

:zamazenta:
Zamazenta was a much less clear-cut Pokemon, being incredibly scary with Lopunnite's Intimidate immunity and ability to hit Ghost-types like Gholdengo and Hisuian Typhlosion thanks to Scrappy. Its main draw, though, was its blistering 168 Speed with Lopunnite, outspeeding the entire neutral metagame and even some Choice Scarf Pokemon like Kyogre or even some Pokemon under Tailwind like non-Manectite Rillaboom. This wouldn't be enough to break it fully with Banettite in the metagame; however...

:banettite:
Banettite is completely broken. Not only does it fundamentally break two moves in After You and Instruct, the former already being banned, but also warps the entire metagame around it and its antics. Tailwind is a monstrous force on Pokemon like Suicune, Roaring Moon, Mew, and more, but the main way to break Banettite in the current meta is with boosting moves like Coaching and Decorate to give partner Pokemon instant stat boosts that they shouldn't. Other moves like Will-O-Wisp, Rain Dance, and Sunny Day also exploit Banettite's capabilities to affect the field, whether that be in a positive or a negative way. This also disregards the massive +50 Attack the stone gives, which makes many support Pokemon deal damage themselves physically, especially Roaring Moon who now has an insane 189 Attack on top of the given support kit. This Mega Stone fundamentally breaks the game, but in its disappearance After You returns.


You may also note the lack of a (sc)HiZo vote, and that's because he has decided to leave the council. We thank him for what he has done to get the metagame going. In the gap created from his leave, we want to welcome Glimmer and ratpacker to the council, who both have good metagame knowledge and doubles skill.

dhelmise please can you implement ty
 
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Managed to top the ladder in this format with some funny guys
:entei: - :chien-pao: - :raging bolt: - :great tusk: - :brute bonnet: - :zacian-crowned:

Pixilspeed is extremely good in this format and entei is probably the best abuser, having the absolutely broken sacred fire to hit steels and reasonably strong stone edge for fire types. It consistently beats Dnite as a pixilspeed user (dnite should probably run aerilate or mencite, in my opinion, to distinguish itself) and doesn't have to suffer the recoil damage arcanine does with its fire and rock moves while simply having more stat to work with.

Brute bonnet is incredibly good with aggronite. I haven't seen this pokemon drop to any single hit in the format after mega, boasting some truly gargantuan bulk, great attack stat that goes nicely with seed bomb and sucker punch, and the ever-useful spore and rage powder. Pollen puff is probably a good option on slower paced teams. I think a lot of top players are undervaluing this mon, as it's able to do great damage and eat disgusting hits back even in front of magic bounce users, and aggronite dropping the fairy and fighting weaknesses and bolstering bonnet's bulk into every other type it's weak to means it always contributes to a game. To put things into perspective, bonnet has nearly identical stats to calyrex-ice with aggronite, and a much better defensive profile thanks to filter.

1733444746333.png


Manectite bolt is very good, it trades into everything and is a great positional tool, easily a top tier choice in this format if you're nto running pixilate bolt.

:zacian-crowned: :chien-pao:
Perhaps the most surprising thing about this team is seeing these two pokemon without mega stones. Chien pao's sword of ruin is an invaluable ability and focus sash really is just a perfect item on it, seeing as no mega stone will really fix pao's defensive typing and stats, and no offensive mega will provide you with equivalent damage output while maintaining the incredible value of focus sash. Cornerstone mask is a decent contender, providing sturdy and a nice damage boost all around, but the rock typing is useless on pao, who has no rock coverage, and droppign ice STAB is a detah sentence. That all said. Chien pao is still a ridiculously powerful pokemon on itsown merits, easily standing up to a lot of the mega users and amping the team's damage to absurd levels, and zacian crowned is still an absurd pokemon. Even in a world with sablenite iron hands and latiosite volcanions Zacian crowned stands tall as one of the best pokemon, with a broken typing, absurd speed, and great damage output into nearly anything. Absolutely essential for this team's iron hands matchup alongside our final pokemon.

:great tusk:
Probably my favorite part of this team, Wellspring mask great tusk is an exceptional rain check with immunities to electric and water and fantastic phyiscal bulk to eat hits from swampertite users. Ground-water typing provides value into almost every game, allowing wellspring mask to really get its value over a mega stone, especially when looking at the amount of damage the 1.2x boost allows tusk to do with STABs, doing critical damage into ground and fighting weak pokemon.

252+ Atk Soft Sand Sword of Ruin Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Hands: 464-548 (103.3 - 122%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Sablenite Iron hands)

Things I noticed while using this team and others I'm less proud of:
  • Megaless pokemon are underexplored, especially good restricteds such as arceus, ho-oh and zacian
  • Incineroar is very good and wildly underused, Run aggronite to help with the matchup into fairy stuffs and rain or gyaradosite to deal with magic bounce users. (though using parting shot to phase them is very funny)
  • Sablenite is very good but slightly overused, other defensive/utiltiy megas are greatly underexplored (especially aggronite)
  • Rain is overused but could easily innovate with more creative swampertite uses, archaludon is extremely overrated
  • Raging bolt is good on any team
  • Iron hands is broken
  • Urshifu is strong but pixilate stuff really ruins it
  • Every team should try to fit an intimidate user
  • Every team should have a fairy type, many of the really stupid mons like bolt, hands, annihilape, ursh all hate it
  • Every team should have 2 fairy resistances because of the above observation
  • Zacian-crowned is really, really good because it still outspeeds most of the metagame aside from (bad) diancite users and the above two observations (please do not bad this pokemon though, the ubiquity of intimidate makes sure it's nothing too insane)
  • Whimsicott is the best tailwind setter, and wants to use sash similarly to chien-pao. Teams having 5 or 6 protect slots lets it get insane value off encore when played well.
  • Trick room is very very good with sablenite protecting setters. Ice rider and magearna are very powerful because this archetype can so consistently set (ice rider being able to hold clam to negate intimidate helps it clean house a lot too)
  • This format is very fun and you can do a lot if you try hard enough

I like this metagame a lot and will continue to tinker with it as the month goes on, hopefully rain doesn't find a way to warrant being banned because it enables a lot of cool ideas right now.
 
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:sv/zapdos-galar:
Bannetite gone yet? (Zapdos-Galar) @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Defiant
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Tailwind
- Taunt
- Quick Guard
- Thunderous Kick
I find this guy hella underrated. Mold breaker taunt gets most TR Sableniters in check, quick Guard is that niche move that owns Extreme speeders, Tailwind gets your team going and Thunderous kick has a nin(negligible damage output even barely invested thanks to the base 155 attack. It also gets very potent bulk so let's get it going.

:sv/raging-bolt:
Girraffe emoji (Raging Bolt) @ Altarianite
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 20 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt
- Hyper Voice
- Protect
Giraffe is a delete button with CM Hyper voice with Altarianite, and 4 spe lets it outspeed base 120 in tailwind.

:sv/iron-hands:
Where Intimidate (Iron Hands) @ Galladite
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 248 HP / 4 Atk / 36 SpD / 220 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Drain Punch / Close Combat
- Ice Punch / Thunder Punch / Supercell Slam / Wild Charge
- Protect
Galladite gives 180 base attack, base 138 Def and base 80 speed, so with 220 EVs it outpseeds Ada Regieleki on Tailwind. Galladite gives Intimidate and flinch immunity, so You can easily get some SDs up.
#GiveIronHandsBulkUp
 
Now that my CCC run is over I'm making a big post about Camove.

TEAMS
:tornadus: :pincurchin: :iron_bundle: :iron_moth: :ogerpon-hearthflame: :banette-mega: - The main team I used. Carried me through rounds 2-4 (also used it in round 1 but let's just say my opponent's Sharpedo got lucky). I will be submitting this as a sample, but there are probably optimisations that can be made, like changing the Iron Bundle moveset and making Mega Banette Steel/Ghost (which I did have originally but later changed).

:grimmsnarl: :iron_boulder: :ogerpon-hearthflame: :zeraora: :dragapult: :pidgeot-mega: - Another HO team that I kinda rushed and only worked in round 6. Originally I had a Delcatty over Iron Boulder, but apart from in a battle vs NoobSpammer it never did anything. I also had a specs Tapu Lele but my team was kinda weak to Zeraora so I changed it to my own Zeraora, with Freeze-Dry to hopefully catch opposing Zeraora off guard (iirc that never happened anyway). There are probably lots of ways to improve this team, but I'm not the best builder.

VR NOMS
The VR is kinda outdated so there probably should be lots of changes, so I'm just gonna say what I think are the main ones that should happen.
:zeraora: B- -> A
One of the mons I saw the most. Very good sweeper that outspeeds almost everything.
:espeon: UR -> C
I used this a lot when I started camove. It's a decent web lead for HO teams that can't be taunted and also reflects Spikes (and Stealth Rock, but most people use Stone Axe anyway). Also hits pretty hard.
:pincurchin: C -> B-
Electric terrain teams have been on the rise lately, mainly because of the 570/590 BST mons that get a free boost to their highest stat and can click 182 bp moves with the only drawback being often walled by Cresselia and ground types (or you could innovate and use Trick/Switcheroo Ring Target like I did).
:iron_moth: C- -> C+
^
:banette-mega: B -> A-
165 attack with Gigaton Hammer hits like a truck, and it can use Prankster Copycat to negate the drawback (and also copy Headlong Rushes from Ogerpon-Hearthflame or other attacks from mons weak to their STAB(s), which happened a lot). Can also use Destiny Bond as a last resort.
:slowking: S- -> UR
Why would you ever use this over the Galarian form? The extra chip damage on weak moves isn't worth it if it means opponents heal more with Strength Sap.

Also pls free Assist
 
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Now that my CCC run is over I'm making a big post about Camove.

TEAMS
:tornadus: :pincurchin: :iron_bundle: :iron_moth: :ogerpon-hearthflame: :banette-mega: - The main team I used. Carried me through rounds 2-4 (also used it in round 1 but let's just say my opponent's Sharpedo got lucky). I will be submitting this as a sample, but there are probably optimisations that can be made, like changing the Iron Bundle moveset and making Mega Banette Steel/Ghost (which I did have originally but later changed).

:grimmsnarl: :iron_boulder: :ogerpon-hearthflame: :zeraora: :dragapult: :pidgeot-mega: - Another HO team that I kinda rushed and only worked in round 6. Originally I had a Delcatty over Iron Boulder, but apart from in a battle vs NoobSpammer it never did anything. I also had a specs Tapu Lele but my team was kinda weak to Zeraora so I changed it to my own Zeraora, with Freeze-Dry to hopefully catch opposing Zeraora off guard (iirc that never happened anyway). There are probably lots of ways to improve this team, but I'm not the best builder.

VR NOMS
The VR is kinda outdated so there probably should be lots of changes, so I'm just gonna say what I think are the main ones that should happen.
:zeraora: B- -> A
One of the mons I saw the most. Very good sweeper that outspeeds almost everything.
:espeon: UR -> C
I used this a lot when I started camove. It's a decent web lead for HO teams that can't be taunted and also reflects Spikes (and Stealth Rock, but most people use Stone Axe anyway). Also hits pretty hard.
:pincurchin: C -> B-
Electric terrain teams have been on the rise lately, mainly because of the 570/590 BST mons that get a free boost to their highest stat and can click 182 bp moves with the only drawback being often walled by Cresselia and ground types (or you could innovate and use Trick/Switcheroo Ring Target like I did).
:iron_moth: C- -> C+
^
:banette-mega: B -> A-
165 attack with Gigaton Hammer hits like a truck, and it can use Prankster Copycat to negate the drawback (and also copy Headlong Rushes from Ogerpon-Hearthflame or other attacks from mons weak to their STAB(s), which happened a lot). Can also use Destiny Bond as a last resort.
:slowking: S- -> UR
Why would you ever use this over the Galarian form? The extra chip damage on weak moves isn't worth it if it means opponents heal more with Strength Sap.

Also pls free Assist
Ignore where they said aside from the battle with noobspammer it did nothing


I swear I didn’t lose a delcatty
 
:sv/koraidon:
Koraidon is unbanned from Mix and Mega Doubles!
Koraidon was banned at the start of the meta due to fears of it being overcentralising thanks to Sun, its stupidly high power, and triple STAB combo, but with relevant meta shifts like Rain being overwhelmingly common, -ate Speed Dragonite/Entei being at the forefront of the meta, Abomasite being an actually real option, Koraidon's lack of spread move options, the lack of Terastallization to make its Fire moves nuclear, speed control being already incredibly prevalent in both directions, and more, we unanimously decided to free the ancestral lizard. We'll continue to watch the development of the meta and we should have a tiering survey up in about a week's time to help improve the state of the meta further.

dhelmise please can you implement ty, its koraidon restricted obv
 
Just some thoughts on the Camove Chaos VR :slowking:

:coalossal: Coal has Steel/Bug still with U Turn which should be on it.
:alomomola: Mola has Water/Ground sets
:heatran: Does this thing even exist anymore?
:tapu lele: Tapu Lele should have Psychic/Ghost sets
:aerodactyl: Aerodactyl is definitely overrated like who is using that
:shaymin-sky:Cheesy and all but I just feel it doesn't deserve B Rank
:darkrai: Who ever used this?
:landorus-therian: I have seen no one use this.
:haxorus: Could see this as a moldy mon but outclassed by Firepon and is just overrated.
:swampert-mega: Now this is a mega, but I just haven't seen anyone using it.
:tyranitar-mega: ^

Now deeper into the VR there are mons that I don't think should be rated because no one has used them and here's the list
Excadrill
Braviary-Hisui
Pinsir-Mega
Barraskewda
Cetitan
Bewear
Blaziken
Deoxys-Speed (maybe this could be a web setter but haven't seen anyone using it)
Buzzwole
Incineroar
Dipplin (Was this ranked like Chansey was ranked?)
Registeel
Thundurus-Therian
Lapras

Stuff that I think should move up
:zeraora: Super strong mon that can run Life Orb, and gets a nice Steam Eruption OWing STABs
:archaludon: Cheesy mon but can be good with Stamina and Calm Mind with a Normal typing to be Spectral Immune

I didn't know I could do this
:sm/amoonguss:
 
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I have a few small critiques with this. Most of it is entirely correct but I just think there’s some small discrepancies.

:Heatran: Doom Desire Apple Acid sets are very potent. It should take a rank or 2 down but it does a good job balancing defense utility and offense.

:Landorus-Therian: This isn’t a huge presence, but it’s the best Intimidate mon by far. It could be used more as a potential defensive pivot, but I’ve seen it a couple times rocking a Wave Crash/Flower Trick/Tidy Up set. It’s only been a handful of times but it’s underrated imo.

:Cetitan: Not very good, but its viability is dependent on getting Chilly Receptioned. That’s not as good with the Electro Shot and ZardY bans gutting weather a bit. It’s bulkier and faster than Beartic, and its attack isn’t negligible with a Band or Swords Dance. It deserved to be ranked.

:Blaziken: Is an underrated late game cleaner. It can run either physical or special. It’s very rare to see it but I don’t think of it as untiered.

:Lapras: Knock it down a few ranks for sure. It’s there for Water Absorb. It’s worse than Volcanion, but not untiered imo. This could go either way.

:Haxorus: For something I entirely agree on, I want Fraudorus to be like C or C+. It’s entirely a worse a Hogerpon. Only thing you can do with it that you can’t with Hogerpon is give it a band or scarf. I specifically mention Haxorus because of how good it used to be, but every other assessment I stand behind. This tier ranking had Kyurem at C+ before it was banned, I think it needs some work.

I’m really hoping for more takes like this, I really want Camove’s tier resources to be as accurate and as accessible as possible.

Also amoonguss is entirely outclassed by Toxapex, who should be ranked higher
 
A couple of my more solid PokeBH teams. We don't have samples yet but I don't think either team has ever lost in the considerable number of games I've loaded them in roomtours/friendlies so I guess you can treat them as such. I'll add replays later if I feel like it.

:sv/arceus-electric::sv/gliscor::sv/chansey::sv/yveltal::sv/klefki::sv/kyogre:
(Click on sprites for link)

Bulky balance or semistall-ish build that aims to have adequate defensive counterplay to play around everything. Some opposing threats (Basculegion, MG Sceptile, setup Garchomp, etc.) might take smart positioning/doubles to handle but nothing too bad – it hasn't lost in 15+ games so I'm probably doing something right.

:arceus-electric: Feels at least a bit nicer to use than in base BH since its checks are either super passive (Gliscor food) or not as common. Ice Beam's mostly for Gliscor but it's also decent coverage in general. I'd say maybe a third of all games are won by positioning Eleceus for a sweep when the opponent wouldn't be able to break through. Not much else to say, with Strength Sap Eleceus seems like it can 1v1 almost any physical mon.

:gliscor: MG is unintuitive but it allows you to continuously come in on hazards and do your thing against passive mons, especially since you're also immune to Salt Cure that way. Dual Spin means you have semi-reliable removal which is important on a structure like this, Burning Bulwark lets you burn stuff and safely get Poison up against most stuff, and Spikes because there's honestly not much the opponent can do when Gliscor sits on passive mons forever. If you accidentally Poison Imposter with Mortal Spin it's not the end of the world because that means Imp's worse off against every other team member.

:chansey: Imposter's actually underrated here since mons like Toxapex that otherwise annoy this team become basically unkillable when Transformed into, and it's workable (if potentially messy) counterplay against offensive stuff this team might not seem like it handles on paper. Non-Transformed set Improofs Eleceus if things go awry.

:yveltal: VD sweeper since those are broken as shit and discourage bringing Choiced breakers in in the right situations. 32 Attack EVs lets Yveltal self-Improof since +4/+6/+6 Power Trip deals <50% to itself; this might seem like a large detractment from Yveltal's potential power but it's still slightly stronger than non-Dark Aura Adamant Yveltal so it works out. Another third of my games end with a Yveltal sweep.

:klefki: Klefki generally has pretty shitty raw bulk so it might seem unintuitive but with Ice Scales (ends up with ~200k HP*SpD, making it 25% bulkier on the special side than Registeel) and its defensive typing (as well as Rain from Kyogre) it actually performs its function pretty well, with Ghostceus dealing 25-30% and randomly eating SE hits on the special side. Knock for item removal and Taunt stuff (as opposed to a no attack set), while Haze/Parting Shot allow Klefki to prevent sweeps while retaining momentum. The latter synergizes especially well with Kyogre since at -1 they both collectively wall like everything.

:kyogre: Kyogre has surprising bulk as a RegenVester, is synergistic with Klefki, can force a significant portion of mons out with Rain-boosted STAB, and gets you the upper hand in weather wars. U-turn over Flip Turn for opposing Desolate Land stuff.

_______________________________________________________

:sv/basculegion::sv/kyogre::sv/altaria-mega::sv/basculin::sv/steelix-mega::sv/eternatus:


I'm not very good at building offense in BH (Eternatus could be something else but idk what) but Rain is definitely problematic in that Basculegion breaks through almost any balance-esque team. I built this to demonstrate that Basculegion would be banworthy even if we were to ban innate Speed boosting via weather (Primordial Sea + Swift Swim being the offender here), using v87 rain as a blueprint. Only one potential losing matchup in the 10+ games I've had so far. Expect action on Basc-M soon.

:basculegion: The first thing I realized was that Bascu doesn't actually lose much from not running Primordial Sea, save for the Speed boost – while Technician restricts the moves you'd prefer to run it provides the same multiplier as Rain to your main STAB (Surging Strikes) as well as other attacks Basculegion favors (Jet Punch, Flip Turn). Add Rain support onto that, and Basculegion's Surging Strikes 2HKOes everything that isn't a 4x resist or some extremely bulky Prankster resist like Giratina. Spirit Shackle over Poltergeist since you 2HKO frailer 4x Water resists anyway and some bulkier ones (Dialga-O, Eternatus) get 2HKOed with a bit of chip if you don't want to click Water STAB for whatever reason. This is your main breaker so try not to lose it early on.

:kyogre: Sets Rain and is hard to punish with Regenerator since one can switch in even on hazards if necessary. Similar set to what you'd see on base BH Regen Slowbro since the same moves (Strength Sap, Scald/alternative STAB, Stone Axe, pivoting) are conducive to its function. RevDance is for Normalize.

:altaria-mega: Probably the most important deviation from "standard" Rain, Altaria pairs well with everything else against Sun, more or less hardcounters MG Sceptile, and can reliably remove hazards via PixiSpin. Nuzzle's theoretically useful to slow everything down in case Bascul(eg)i(o)n lack Rain support for whatever reason, and dissuades Imposter from coming in. PixiBurst minimizes Altaria's passivity, letting it reliably check VD Yveltal, and generally forces things out, helping to retain momentum. Pivoting's also pretty nice. One downside of Altaria's its rather disappointing bulk when not resisting something, just before writing this post it got OHKOed t1 by Specs (Mold Breaker) Porygon-Z through AV so don't recklessly throw it out against everything.

:basculin: Basically a worse Basculegion, but that's too high a bar to really mean much of anything – Wave Crash still 2HKOes resists/OHKOes most neutral foes with chip, and Flip Turn still deals a decent amount. Recoil-less Head Smash helps against Desoland Fires (mainly Ho-Oh/Char X) that might try and annoy Basculin, while Glacial Lance is a filler move that 2HKOes Eternatus and theoretically hits Hydrapple.

:steelix-mega: Improofs everything if you don't get Ability Shield Knocked (though Altaria/Eternatus can deal with Impostered Bascs satisfactorily it's not the end of the world if you do get your item removed). Not much else to say, aside from AShield the set's identical to what's found on base BH Rain.

:eternatus: I don't really know what this does other than 1v1 bulky setup (which Rain Basculegion generally OHKOes) but I haven't bothered to change it when the remaining 5-mon core is already self-sufficient. This could probably be Imposter or something.​
 
:sv/basculegion:

Basculegion-M is banned from PokeBH!
aerobee
ANinjaDude
Clas
NoobSpammer
Lysion
rightclicker
The Hisui Region
Result (Y-N-A)
Basculegion-M​
BAN​
BAN​
BAN​
BAN​
BAN​
BAN​
BAN​
7-0-0 BAN​

:basculegion:
Basculegion was an impressively hard hitter that was outsped by next to nothing with Primordial Sea, and could also opt for manual Rain to stack an offensive Ability on top. Both aspects were deemed unhealthy enough to warrant a ban.
 
IMG_0047.png

Torkoal @ Diancite
Ability: Drought
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Eruption
- Shell Smash
- Stealth Rock
- Solar Beam

New strat, methinks.
 
It's me Amoongus again and here are some PokeBH teams that I've built. Note these probably aren't good but whatever.

:sm/aerodactyl-mega: :sm/arceus-steel: :sm/eternatus: :sm/toxapex: :sm/chansey: :sv/ting-lu:
Inspired by aerobee to run Mega Aero. It's imp proofed with Arc Steel, and has Etern to help it wallbreak. This team has my favorite dual regen core, and Imp.

:sm/arceus-ghost: :ss/ursaluna: :ss/zamazenta: :sv/ting lu: :sm/chansey: :sm/toxapex:
This team features Ursaluna, which is Imp Proofed by Zamazenta and sometimes Ghostceus. Again, my favorite dual regen core + Imp.

:sm/houndoom-mega: :sv/flutter mane: :sm/toxapex: :sm/ho-oh: :sv/ogerpon-hearthflame: :ss/palkia-origin:
Ltaker are you proud of me for spreading sun propaganada
Flutter, Oger, and Houndoom (which hits like a truck btw) are the main hitters of this team. Palkia imp proofs Oger, and Pex Imp proofs houndoom and flutter. Ho-Oh sets up the sun.

:sm/arceus-fairy: :sm/lunala: :sm/ho-oh: :sm/chansey: :sm/zekrom: :sm/steelix-mega:
Built around Zekrom this time, which gets free moldy+Galvanize. Steelix imp proofs, and the rest of the team is pretty normal.

Thanks to ANinjaDude and rightclicker and everyone else who helped me make these teams (sorry if I forgot you)!
 
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Since PokeBH seems to be the most popular OMM nowadays I'm gonna share the worst sets I've cooked up. (Click the gifs to see the sets)

:sv/magnezone:
I wanted to abuse Magnet Pull in the dumbest ways possible. Unfortunately it got banned before I could use this, but I'm gonna explain this anyway. If your opponent was foolish enough to bring in their Imposter on Magnezone, they would see you only have 3 moves, 2 of which can't be clicked unless they have a berry too. They would be unable to switch because of Magnet Pull, leaving them with no choice but to go boom. Counterplay includes
Shed Shell Imposters, Imposterless teams, steel types, poison types, Knock Off, Trick, Taunt, Ice Scales, ground type moves, and probably a lot more.

:sv/swalot:
Trap the opponent, give it Magic Bounce, boost your attack, then click Strength Sap to force them to faint from Liquid Ooze. After 2 attack boosts, Strength Sap will KO everything except Blissey, Chansey, Guzzlord, Regidrago, Wobbuffet, Cetitan, and Wailord. Counterplay includes normal types, Good as Gold, anything with decent offensive stats, Taunt, Covert Cloak, and more.

:sv/cinderace:
Truly skilled trainers should win with their favourites, so I guess I'm not very skilled. Unfortunately The Scorb has a lower attack stat than :aromatisse: this thing, so I have to use the fully evolved form. It gets 116 attack and STAB on every move and there are loads of strong physical moves it can use, like V-create Glacial Lance, Headlong Rush, Bolt Strike, Close Combat, Sunsteel Strike (or Gigaton Hammer, but it doesn't work that well with band), and more, which hit quite hard when paired with Adaptability:

252 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Cinderace Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Audino-Mega: 368-436 (89.7 - 106.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Cinderace Glacial Lance vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 716-844 (100.2 - 118.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Cinderace Glacial Lance vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Eternatus: 588-696 (121.4 - 143.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Cinderace Glacial Lance vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Ting-Lu: 492-580 (95.7 - 112.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Cinderace Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Ho-Oh: 664-784 (159.6 - 188.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Cinderace Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 516-608 (102.3 - 120.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Cinderace Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 384-456 (126.3 - 150%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Cinderace Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 428-508 (105.9 - 125.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Cinderace Glacial Lance vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Gliscor: 448-536 (126.5 - 151.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Also gets Blaze which turns V-create into a nuke if it's low
+1 252 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Cinderace V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Steelix-Mega: 316-372 (89.2 - 105%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Cinderace V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Arceus: 516-608 (116.2 - 136.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Cinderace V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 216-255 (71 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Ok maybe this is actually viable (you could also run adamant but then Arceus always outspeeds it)

:sv/golurk:
What in the world is this abomination? Well, Klutz lets you gift your opponent an Assault Vest even though it's still 2 days until Christmas, and in return, you can potentially get a Rocky Helmet or Covert Cloak that will have stopped this from working. No Guard ensures you can paralyse your opponent with Zap Cannon and trap it with Magma Storm. It also means Population Bomb will always hit 10 times, and Stench means you have a 65.13215599% chance to flinch them. Either this is a genius set or (probably) absolute trash.
 
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