Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4

Ban Terapagos Stellar form, no reason not to, free the turtle
We need another rapid spinner desperately, Great Tusk carrying the weight of the world right now, this thing does not want to be 40% usage, get it some rest
are we allowed to celebrate over araquanid OU in the discussion thread or...

in seriousness im super happy that these two mons rose; they both deserved this status. pecharunt especially, this thing is basically a tier staple now. hopefully it'll be a full-on OU mon for the rest of the generation, it's insanely good. 252 Speed saves this mon fr.
I don't think it's that good tbh, it's still weak to two of the most common offensive types

It's interesting to see the pokemon below the cutoff. Ribombee might as well have risen to OU if it wasn't for Araquanid, Torkoal also feeling the competition from Ninetales renaissance and Sinistcha with disappointingly low usage, I think this is the one to look at in the near future.

| 40 | Ribombee | 4.310% |<br> | 41 | Deoxys-Speed | 4.032% |<br> | 42 | Torkoal | 4.021% |<br> | 43 | Garchomp | 3.763% |<br> | 44 | Tinkaton | 3.671% |<br> | 45 | Ninetales-Alola | 3.293% |<br> | 46 | Clodsire | 3.263% |<br> | 47 | Sinistcha | 3.255% |
 
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Ban Terapagos Stellar form, no reason not to, free the turtle
We need another rapid spinner desperately, Great Tusk carrying the weight of the world right now, this thing does not want to be 40% usage, get it some rest
NO. ABSOLUTELY NOT. Great Tusk is bulky and consistent enough as it is, we don't need another fat piece of shit in the tier that can spin in the face of anything. Tera Shell + evenly distributed high bulk = brainless get out of jail free card against all hazards, if Tusk can implicitly use R*pid Sp*n against anything, Terapagos can explicitly do it.
 
NO. ABSOLUTELY NOT. Great Tusk is bulky and consistent enough as it is, we don't need another fat piece of shit in the tier that can spin in the face of anything. Tera Shell + evenly distributed high bulk = brainless get out of jail free card against all hazards, if Tusk can implicitly use R*pid Sp*n against anything, Terapagos can explicitly do it.
why is having another spinner in the tier bad? gholdengo already pulls enough weight on the hazard meta as is, so adding another spinner that beats it is a net positive, no?
 
New Pink video just dropped. I'm not a big fan of just pasting videos but I think his perspective is very interesting and something that people need to hear. Spoiler Alert: He doesn't want it back.
I would ask Pinka (and everyone who thinks Palafin is not broken, but mediocre, yet unhealthy and therefore want it to stay Ubers), if they think they could make the tier healthier by swapping Palafin for a currently OU pokemon. I bet they do and I'd like to raise the issue that the current policy for Ubers unbans is completely unfair to pokemon released at the start of the generation, when there are far less tools to deal with any threat. If Palafin had dropped when DLC2 was released, would we be talking about how it makes the tier less healthy or would we be talking about other mons and mechanics?
 
why is having another spinner in the tier bad? gholdengo already pulls enough weight on the hazard meta as is, so adding another spinner that beats it is a net positive, no?
Rapid Spin is the most versatile move in the game. It can:
-Revenge kill, or chip the opponent and facilitate a revenge kill next turn
-Make yourself much harder to revenge kill
-Make it much easier to click a setup move
-Remove hazards
-Be used as a bluff
And often, it does all of these at the same time.

There is not a single other move in the history of the game that compresses so much function into a single attack. It was fine before but it is now incredibly easy to click. Great Tusk and Iron Treads in addition to the less used Quaquaval and Excadrill have the coverage and stats to beat any spinblocker that stands in their way, except for maybe the Chas assuming that they switch in for free. Offensively, the war between spinners and spin blockers is heavily weighted in favor of the spinners, to the point where spin blocking with either Pult or Ghold is nearly impossible long term, forcing either a Tera (which can potentially just be muscled past anyway because what actually wants to be taking a Headlong Rush or EQ) or a sack. Any team that doesn’t have a defensive Pokemon and actually wants to stop spinning more often than not has to rely on sheer luck and positioning because, I’m going to say it again, Great Tusk is nearly impossible to OKO, meaning that even if you get heavy damage on it and kill with priority next turn, it still managed to remove hazards which is more often than not enough to win a game.

And the worst part is that you can’t really even bring this obscene spinning consistency up, because if you consider Great Tusk to be anything other than the Messiah and Savior of Gen 9 OU, you are labeled as a blasphemer.

Adding Terapagos would only further skew spinblocking to be defensive since now you just straight up can’t use your Ghost STAB against it, and even Specs boosted MIR/Draco is doing jack shit to a Terapagos with Tera Shell intact, and it can easily retaliate with Ice Beam or Dark Pulse. Pecharunt and Sinistcha would rise in usage which would make the meta even more bland, fat, and unintuitive, because who the fuck enjoys playing against anything with Recover or Strength Sap?
 
I would ask Pinka (and everyone who thinks Palafin is not broken, but mediocre, yet unhealthy and therefore want it to stay Ubers), if they think they could make the tier healthier by swapping Palafin for a currently OU pokemon. I bet they do and I'd like to raise the issue that the current policy for Ubers unbans is completely unfair to pokemon released at the start of the generation, when there are far less tools to deal with any threat. If Palafin had dropped when DLC2 was released, would we be talking about how it makes the tier less healthy or would we be talking about other mons and mechanics?
my crystal ball that allows me to see into alternate-timeline metas says that if palafin dropped in dlc2, it would have been a mainstay on those broken archaludon rain structures. eventually it would have ended up being suspected and banned, probably right after the first kyurem suspect instead of archaludon. arch would be banned a little while later once everyone realized the palafin ban didn't fully solve the problem, and meta developments after that would remain the same up until about now, where the likeshop would result in a tera suspect instead because palafin was more fresh in everyone's mind. the rest of this timeline is largely the same except that bkc wins the 2024 election
 
palafin not even being top 10 in usage is kinda funny I can’t lie
palafin almost reached the ou cutoff for the entire three months when it was only usable for 11 days. that's actually a mind-boggling amount of usage. i did some quick number-crunching and found out that if it'd had this same rate of usage for the entire month it would be either #2 or #1 for december depending on weighting

obviously this is not actually indicative of anything besides new-toy-that-might-not-be-here-next-week syndrome
 
I am keeping Meow in OU myself. True Mewers know what the fuck is up #Clawsout

To keep this from being a One Liner, one of the major things im still sad about with Palafin currently existing and is that its utterly razed my Tera Fire Blast Meow sets. Moltres has been rather difficult to contend with as it turns out, Tera Grass/Water is extremely popular nowadays with it...
 
I believe of the Tera types available, that Ghost is the best in the tier. While this could be up for debate, our stringent hazard management situation as well as its relevant defensive advantages make it incredibly versatile for offense and hazard stacking structures in general. I just posted a video about it which you can check out here:


What do you think of Tera Ghost in the tier? Do you think there's something better, holistically speaking?
 
I believe of the Tera types available, that Ghost is the best in the tier. While this could be up for debate, our stringent hazard management situation as well as its relevant defensive advantages make it incredibly versatile for offense and hazard stacking structures in general. I just posted a video about it which you can check out here:


What do you think of Tera Ghost in the tier? Do you think there's something better, holistically speaking?
Only other teras that come close are dark and water

Dark because boosting non stab sucker or knock is massive

And water is just all around fantastic
 
Ogerpon-Wellspring ban. I want to use Moltres to wall every physical attacker. I want AV Mola to flip turn on everything for free. I think I want Solgaleo unbanned.

If Palafin is voted to stay Ubers, which seems likely from the qualified thread but we've had the forums conflict with the actual votes before, I think that's the stopper on Ubers being suspected down given the reasons being offered by ban voters. Namely, very few perceive Palafin as broken, but plenty believe that adding another powerful mon to the tier isn't desirable - logic which would apply to every other potential Uber drop candidate. Given that no other has the combination of "The mon was banned very early," and "There are specific tools this mon could bring to benefit OU," I don't believe any would have a ghost of a chance, and thus wouldn't be tested.

The lone possible exception is Volcarona after a Tera Blast ban, who wouldn't be automatically dropped to OU but would likely face a suspect. Giving the matchup moth less tools to play matchup roulette might be enough to convince people the defensive value is worth bringing it down.
 
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The lone possible exception is Volcarona after a Tera Blast ban, who wouldn't be automatically dropped to OU but would likely face a suspect.
regieleki would absolutely be quickdropped after a tera blast ban. the only things it can realistically do are set screens, spin, and thud into the most common type in the tier. nothing about it is broken in the absence of boltbeam stab
 
I believe of the Tera types available, that Ghost is the best in the tier. While this could be up for debate, our stringent hazard management situation as well as its relevant defensive advantages make it incredibly versatile for offense and hazard stacking structures in general. I just posted a video about it which you can check out here:


What do you think of Tera Ghost in the tier? Do you think there's something better, holistically speaking?
Tera Ghost is by far the best offensive Tera Type - I’d say the only ones that come close are Fairy, Flying and Water for universal “Goodness”. Everyone’s packing answers for Tera Steel now from the type’s near omnipresence whereas nobody’s clicking sludge bomb for predicted Fairy Tera
 
If Palafin is voted to stay Ubers, which seems likely from the qualified thread but we've had the forums conflict with the actual votes before, I think that's the stopper on Ubers being suspected down given the reasons being offered by ban voters. Namely, very few perceive Palafin as broken, but plenty believe that adding another powerful mon to the tier isn't desirable - logic which would apply to every other potential Uber drop candidate. Given that no other has the combination of "The mon was banned very early," and "There are specific tools this mon could bring to benefit OU," I don't believe any would have a ghost of a chance, and thus wouldn't be tested.

The lone possible exception is Volcarona after a Tera Blast ban, who wouldn't be automatically dropped to OU but would likely face a suspect. Giving the matchup moth less tools to play matchup roulette might be enough to convince people the defensive value is worth bringing it down.
I could maybe see Solgaleo but thats like it, and I really don’t expect it to be healthy
 
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