Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4

I dont think its a CTC alt, some people are just...different :)

in a good way! everyone has their unique personality.

Im a little terrified of how gen 10 is gonna further power creep tbh. I can fully see some move setting 'stealth fire' while burning the opponent and being a 80 bp move. I know this isn't really the thread to discuss that, but im a bit nervous D=

Naw, Gamefreak has a fetish for hyper offense, so you can take it to the bank that this move will never be released for standard OU play. A move that burns switch-ins would be a nightmare for the nooby Gamefreak developers who play hyper offense on Showdown in their spare time.

I can see the main avenue of powercreep expression in Gen 10 being more powerful Pokemon with strong signature moves/abilities and high BST, continuing the game design of Gen 9. In that sense, I can see every Mega Evolution getting a signature move or at least every new Mega introduced in Legends: Z-A getting a signature move.
 
Im a little terrified of how gen 10 is gonna further power creep tbh. I can fully see some move setting 'stealth fire' while burning the opponent and being a 80 bp move. I know this isn't really the thread to discuss that, but im a bit nervous D=
how could they possibly, possibly do worse than a mon with base 135 spa, 135 speed, a free boost to one of these in sun, and one of the best offensive type combinations ever? or a mon with that same spa but instead of speed it gets spammable hyper beam that nothing is immune to, physical bulk that would make most walls blush, recovery, calm mind, and special priority? or a mon that can cleanly 2hko dondozo with a resisted physical attack on like its third best set? or a mon that disguises itself as a reasonable 600-bst chill guy just long enough to be let into ou before people realize it's a 700-bst box legendary with 160/110/110 bulk and permanent 1.2x boosts to everything? or a move whose main counterplay is "don't win the game"? surely there's no way they could top themselves next gen. nope, none at all. it can't possibly get any worse
 
I thought stuff like shed tail, population bomb, revival blessing and salt cure were pretty fun this gen for otherwise crappy mons. I wouldn't mind seeing more of that in gen 10.

I would like to see some mons special niche being their coverage though. Like "I'm a ground mon but I live on the beach so I also get water moves and that's my special thing. Every mon getting every coverage so everyone just runs their ground/ice or dark/fighting combo has gotten a little old.
 
how could they possibly, possibly do worse than a mon with base 135 spa, 135 speed, a free boost to one of these in sun, and one of the best offensive type combinations ever? or a mon with that same spa but instead of speed it gets spammable hyper beam that nothing is immune to, physical bulk that would make most walls blush, recovery, calm mind, and special priority? or a mon that can cleanly 2hko dondozo with a resisted physical attack on like its third best set? or a mon that disguises itself as a reasonable 600-bst chill guy just long enough to be let into ou before people realize it's a 700-bst box legendary with 160/110/110 bulk and permanent 1.2x boosts to everything? or a move whose main counterplay is "don't win the game"? surely there's no way they could top themselves next gen. nope, none at all. it can't possibly get any worse
remind me again who’s the 600 BST chill guy?
 
how could they possibly, possibly do worse than a mon with base 135 spa, 135 speed, a free boost to one of these in sun, and one of the best offensive type combinations ever? or a mon with that same spa but instead of speed it gets spammable hyper beam that nothing is immune to, physical bulk that would make most walls blush, recovery, calm mind, and special priority? or a mon that can cleanly 2hko dondozo with a resisted physical attack on like its third best set? or a mon that disguises itself as a reasonable 600-bst chill guy just long enough to be let into ou before people realize it's a 700-bst box legendary with 160/110/110 bulk and permanent 1.2x boosts to everything? or a move whose main counterplay is "don't win the game"? surely there's no way they could top themselves next gen. nope, none at all. it can't possibly get any worse
also a mon that was initially ou that had 126 special attack and 136 speed off of a water ice plus freeze dry stab combo that is unresisted
 
how could they possibly, possibly do worse than a mon with base 135 spa, 135 speed, a free boost to one of these in sun, and one of the best offensive type combinations ever? or a mon with that same spa but instead of speed it gets spammable hyper beam that nothing is immune to, physical bulk that would make most walls blush, recovery, calm mind, and special priority? or a mon that can cleanly 2hko dondozo with a resisted physical attack on like its third best set? or a mon that disguises itself as a reasonable 600-bst chill guy just long enough to be let into ou before people realize it's a 700-bst box legendary with 160/110/110 bulk and permanent 1.2x boosts to everything? or a move whose main counterplay is "don't win the game"? surely there's no way they could top themselves next gen. nope, none at all. it can't possibly get any worse
Do you really want the answer to that question now, or want to be surprised? Really, i'm more worried for the council having to take shit from False Swipe Gaming stans & VGC elitists clowning on them for just doing what the community wants.

Anyways, have you guys had any examples of "unusual" stuff you've tried on some OU fellows for the lols only to see it lowkey do stuff? I've been meaning to try Adamant Black Glasses Samurott-H gor a while now. Got some funky clacs to it's name
 
We should ban things I don't like. Ban hamurott. Ban moth. Ban elon musk. Ban seraphyde. Ban ben shapiro. Ban the annoying guy in my math class. Ban my elderly next-door neighbor. Ban the government of zimbabwe.

In all seriousness offensive hamurott is soon underrated as I keep saying. SD black glasses, SD taunt knock fatfishing, taunt flip turn pivot, all these sets are viable but rare. Same with cinderace and his SD/4 attacks sets. Such unexplored pokemon. I recommend trying out new things with them.

(Also SD zen headbutt waterpon absolutely trolls bronzong stall, try it)
 
Do you really want the answer to that question now, or want to be surprised? Really, i'm more worried for the council having to take shit from False Swipe Gaming stans & VGC elitists clowning on them for just doing what the community wants.

Anyways, have you guys had any examples of "unusual" stuff you've tried on some OU fellows for the lols only to see it lowkey do stuff? I've been meaning to try Adamant Black Glasses Samurott-H gor a while now. Got some funky clacs to it's name
Is there conflict between FSG fans and Smogon? I was not aware
 
Its joking on the fact that Youtube commment sections are notoriously bad at recognising when stuff is broken, and that even if something is overwhelmingly broken, they will still complain that Kingambit and Gholdengo are not banned.
Tbf the majority of youtube commenter's experience with competitive pokemon is either randbats or some low-level experience with gen 9 ou on showdown, or being like... decent at VGC on cartridge. If you picked 100 random FSG commenters and asked them to give 3 reasons kyurem was suspected, only about 20 of them could give you a good answer.

There's also a huge stigma from non-competitive players about having personal banlists. This is an issue common among most games (predominantly more popular scenes with noticeable imbalance in their base game such as SSBU (fuck steve) and of course pokemon itself) and at the same time it doesn't help that players also seem to be under the impression singles players expect GF to balance around fanmade metagames which is blatantly untrue considering 1. i have not once seen a competent singles player with this stance and 2. vgc players also think mons such as sneasler or flutter mane or whatever bullshit they've been coming up with recently is blatantly overpowered and just generally unhealthy for game balance.
 
Beat radical red hardcore. It was fun at first until I realized that part of the hardcore mode is never being able to teach any set up moves. Or set hazards. With limited exceptions. Then it was sort of less fun. The better AI and teams were fun but that sort if handicap while they used set up moves in your face felt cringe.

I didn't find it extremely fun. But while playing i did feel like some of you would probably appreciate a singles meta without set up moves. That it would be more balanced.

Input? Not proposing this. But it's all I have to share. Has dragon dance broken many mons? After how many would it generate conversation?

Discussion here doesn't appear severely lively. Survey and Tera blast suspect please.
 
Set-up moves add a lot to the game and using a turn on them comes with noteworthy, balancing trade-off. Dragon Dance, which you use as an example, has been balanced on well over 90% of the Pokemon that get it and does not singlehandedly break many Pokemon ever.

Survey, which includes Tera Blast, will come during the middle of this month after the first week or so of SPL, which starts tomorrow.
 
Beat radical red hardcore. It was fun at first until I realized that part of the hardcore mode is never being able to teach any set up moves. Or set hazards. With limited exceptions. Then it was sort of less fun. The better AI and teams were fun but that sort if handicap while they used set up moves in your face felt cringe.

I didn't find it extremely fun. But while playing i did feel like some of you would probably appreciate a singles meta without set up moves. That it would be more balanced.

Input? Not proposing this. But it's all I have to share. Has dragon dance broken many mons? After how many would it generate conversation?

Discussion here doesn't appear severely lively. Survey and Tera blast suspect please.
It's worth noting that for the majority of pokemon considered broken, it is never a result of setup moves (or rather setup moves are not the primary reason they are broken) More or less the only exception to this rule in SVOU was baxcalibur, which was fantastic due to being able to have a +2 attack and +1 speed the second turn it was out with the defense drop being negligible outside of the occasional priority revenge killer (and with bax resisting more or less every single meaningful priority barring ice shard and sucker punch you'd need significant defense drops for this to be an issue).

A similar issue happened with ogerpon-hearthflame but this was due primarily to having a better stab combo and ability compared to our good friend waterpon (who is currently a contentious force in the metagame for a similar reason). SD was really just another point of "here's how this guy can hit like a truck" but there wasn't a ton of stuff that would be able to handle a +0 hearthflame anyways. Similarly, Sneasler was banned due to having unburden to boost its speed just for clicking a fighting move (with white herb) or switching in after rillaboom (with grassy seed), on top of having a ridiculous attack stat, hard to wall STAB combo, and general uncompetitiveness through dire claw.
 
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It's worth noting that for the majority of pokemon considered broken, it is never a result of setup moves (or rather setup moves are not the primary reason they are broken) More or less the only exception to this rule in SVOU was baxcalibur, which was fantastic due to being able to have a +2 attack and +1 speed the second turn it was out with the defense drop being negligible outside of the occasional priority revenge killer (and with bax resisting more or less every single meaningful priority barring ice shard and sucker punch you'd need significant defense drops for this to be an issue).

A similar issue happened with ogerpon-hearthflame but this was due primarily to having a better stab combo and ability compared to our good friend waterpon (who is currently a contentious force in the metagame for a similar reason). SD was really just another point of "here's how this guy can hit like a truck" but there wasn't a ton of stuff that would be able to handle a +0 hearthflame anyways. Similarly, Sneasler was banned due to having unburden to boost its speed just for clicking a fighting move (with white herb) or switching in after rillaboom (with grassy seed), on top of having a ridiculous attack stat, hard to wall STAB combo, and general uncompetitiveness through dire claw.
Just a reminder the Volcarona and Gouging Fire were banned because of their sets involving setup moves. Gouging Fire specifically passed its first suspect with sets like Choice Band and Breaking Swipe being deemed as not broken, only to later be found broken due to DD related cheese. And for whatever it's worth, my white whale Roaring Moon can do something similar. Kyurem was also suspected and has DD sets, though you can argue it is a special wallbreaker first. All the last suspects besides SD Gliscor, were pokemon with speed boosting setup moves like Dragon Dance or Quiver Dance.

It's worth noting that the climate in gen 9 with mechanics like Tera and BE accelerates setup sweepers, pushing many of the borderline close to the edge or over it. It's not setup moves in of themselves, but the climate of the metagame that makes them more potent.
 
Beat radical red hardcore. It was fun at first until I realized that part of the hardcore mode is never being able to teach any set up moves. Or set hazards. With limited exceptions. Then it was sort of less fun. The better AI and teams were fun but that sort if handicap while they used set up moves in your face felt cringe.

I didn't find it extremely fun. But while playing i did feel like some of you would probably appreciate a singles meta without set up moves. That it would be more balanced.

Input? Not proposing this. But it's all I have to share. Has dragon dance broken many mons? After how many would it generate conversation?

Discussion here doesn't appear severely lively. Survey and Tera blast suspect please.
at first it sounds like an interesting concept considering that a whole lot of the mons that have been banned this gen had some form of setup capability. i think that maybe, if complex bans were a thing smogon did, some sort of clause prohibiting setup + tera could end up producing something a lot nicer than what we have. obviously i'm not proposing this be implemented here and neither should anyone else—even aside from being extremely against policy, it'd be totally arbitrary what counts as "setup" (does dauntless shield count, how to address ogerpon's tera forms, etc) and enforcement of it could be difficult coding-wise—but if there were some sort of unofficial thingy that had a rule like that, i'd certainly be interested

but a meta without setup moves entirely? that's the apocalypse. that would actually be what youtube commenters think gen 8 was. entire playstyles would be rendered totally incapable of breaking certain mons. fat balance, semistall, and regenspam would dominate the meta, with hazard stack being the only other relatively popular archetype and niches for those few flavors of offense that can get by with pretty much just breakers, pivots, and all-out-attacker cleaners (full voltturn, extremely neutered weather teams, etc). it would be miserable
 
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I have defeated Seraphyde in 1400s ladder. After the back-to-back double whammy of AV Forretress + AV Amoonguss and the double metronome stall I trolled ladder with (lost like 10 games in a row because it's ass) the replay Quackborg showed here occurred.

Ban Rapid Spin. Ban Choice Scarf (Chandelure.)

No in all seriousness gg Sera and also Band Moon is insanely good wtf. This mon is kinda stupid actually it's so fast and so strong. I highly recommend it on your sun teams.
 
Well I know this is very late but I would like to share my thoughts on Palafin.

It should not have been banned in my opinion.

But in all seriousness this pokemon was really not that bad. While 160 attack and priority is really good it is on a pure water type with somewhat limited coverage options. Both of its main sets are good, but they are extremely vulnerable into Palafin's best counter (and I definitely say counter in this case) Ogerpon Wellspring. Wogerpon itself is rather contentious but possible broken checks broken aside it is just the (almost) perfect counter for Palafin due to its ability water absorb. Plenty of other pokemon get water absorb too of course but unlike all of those pokemon Wogerpon can threaten Palafin offensively with power whip. This still might not seem that bad until you realize that Palafin's best (and pretty much only) way to beat Wogerpon is acrobatics which is a move that requires you not to use an item to reach its full potential which for Palafin is a huge no no. There are ways around this of course (this is where mixed boomburst throat spray sets came from) but it is still a huge problem. Not to mention even if you do get to be able to use acrobatics not only is Wogerpon still faster and can slam you with power whip still but it can also tera water and get rid of its flying weakness meaning all of your work (or sacrifice of an item) was for nothing. This is probably one of the most dominant matchups I have ever seen in if not the whole of competitive singles at least sv.

This dynamic alone probably should have been good enough but of course not every team can/wants to run Wogerpon. Luckily however there are other pokemon in ou that can help. One of the best examples of this is Rillaboom who not only has a priority grass move in grassy glide but also has enough bulk to live even a choice banded wave crash once and cb jet punch around 3 times. There is also Zapdos who can beat Palfin offensively and defensively as it is and bulky electric type who can fire off a strong volt switch/discharge and can punish a lead Palafin by switching in on a baby Palafin using flip turn and (sometimes) give it paralysis thanks to its ability static. This is one of the funniest and most satisfying interactions in gen 9 ou and it is the biggest reason why only choice band Palafin should use flip turn (and even then). Then there is Dragapult which took me personally by surprise. It even tanks choice band wave crash surprisingly well (yes, I know it resists but Dragapult is pretty frail) with it 2hkoing. This leaves Dragapult ways to both annoy and outright kill Palafin such as outright killing it with specs shadow ball or burning it with will o wisp. There is Raging Bolt who quad resists Palafin and has electric sucker punch which means it kos a Palafin locked into wave crash/close combat. Even bulk up sets aren't a big problem since Raging Bolt still easily tanks jet punch and kos back with thunderbolt (or draco meteor depending on if Palafin teras. There is Meowscarada who sucks but can tank a jet punch and beat bulk up sets with its always critting flower trick. Kyurem doesn't take Palafin's fighting coverage particularly well (especially band which can outspeed it) but it easily beats bulk up sets with its subtect set or specs using freeze dry. Dragonite has multiscale and extreme speed so it can set up on all sets (except ice punch on choice band but that doesn't sound good into anything else so I doubt anyone would have used it) and out priority jet punch with a powerful tera normal extreme speed (which only 2hkos both major sets admittedly so you would need to be careful). There is Zamazenta who easily walls Palafin with its iron defense body press set just as it walls almost every other physical threat. The final big one I would like to mention is Dondozo who laughs at even a choice banded close combat and sets up to eventually kill with waterfall (or body press if you aren't afraid of no ghost). There are other checks too that I haven't mentioned such as water absorb Clodsire and Sinistcha but all the ones I have mentioned above are the big ones that usually beats both sets.

Of course, with tera Palafin can send some of these checks into oblivion, but these have their own problems. Steel is a great tera type but it is left vulnerable to fire, fighting, and ground and while fire and ground types aren't particularly threatening, fighting and ground moves are some of the most common coverage types in the game with many pokemon having a fighting or ground type move in their arsenal. There is Fighting which gives close combat/drain punch a boost in power, but it is not great defensively with it being weak to fairy psychic and flying as well as not having many useful resistances (dark resist is kind of nice for Kingambit and other good dark types but it isn't usually very worth it). There is Grass which allows you to resist electric and grass but now you are even more scared of Kyurem (plus now you get revenge killed at low health by Weavile) and are bullied by bulky poison pokemon such as Pecharunt and the more rare but still relevant Okidogi and Vileplume. The final one I would like to mention is my personal favorite Dragon which does make you scared of ice types like tera Grass does, it gives you more resists, a good neutral hitting move in tera blast dragon (which also is more powerful than ice punch except against Dragonite), and while you are scared of fairy types and steel types resist your tera blast, your water and fighting moves help patch this up. However, it isn't perfect as it makes you more vulnerable to faster dragon types (especially Dragapult who laughs in your face) and Wogerpon often runs play rough which easily dispatches it. There are plenty of ways to play around these teras and Palafin isn't really the best tera abuser anyway since it doesn't usually gain much offensively unless you tera Water which doesn't give you any new defensive benefits. Not to mention of course that other pokemon can tera too allowing them to survive Palafins attacks with ease.

Now while Palafin may not be unhealthy there is of course the question of what it contributes to the tier because obviously even if it is healthy if it doesn't bring anything to the tier there is no point in keeping it. However, I would argue there was a couple of really good things it brought to the tier. First off, Gliscor gets destroyed by Palafin as even tera Water can't save it from those choice banded wave crashes once you get it low enough. Even without choice band that 160 attack doesn't pull its punches and jet punch alone can easily end Gliscor's whole career. Of course, Palafin isn't on every team and Gliscor would still be good, but I don't think anyone would even consider Gliscor broken in a meta where Palafin exists. Another great thing Palafin provides is strong water priority in jet punch. Now yes, I know we have like 15 viable priority users in the tier already, but strong water priority allows Palafin to take out a lot of the scariest threats in the tier such as Iron Moth, Tera Fire Kyurem, and Tera Ground Roaring Moon. Water priority, while not as good in this department as extreme speed, also provides great neutral coverage which is always useful in my opinion.

In conclusion, I do not feel Palafin should have been banned. It wasn't unhealthy and it even contributed to the tier. It had plenty of checks/counters and it wasn't that good of a tera abuser. Maybe one day (not any time soon of course like a year or 2 from now) we could get another suspect and maybe it will be ou in gen 10. For now, thank you for reading and I promise not to make any more posts about Palafin unless it is about this one. Have a good day!
 
Well I know this is very late but I would like to share my thoughts on Palafin.

It should not have been banned in my opinion.

But in all seriousness this pokemon was really not that bad. While 160 attack and priority is really good it is on a pure water type with somewhat limited coverage options. Both of its main sets are good, but they are extremely vulnerable into Palafin's best counter (and I definitely say counter in this case) Ogerpon Wellspring. Wogerpon itself is rather contentious but possible broken checks broken aside it is just the (almost) perfect counter for Palafin due to its ability water absorb. Plenty of other pokemon get water absorb too of course but unlike all of those pokemon Wogerpon can threaten Palafin offensively with power whip. This still might not seem that bad until you realize that Palafin's best (and pretty much only) way to beat Wogerpon is acrobatics which is a move that requires you not to use an item to reach its full potential which for Palafin is a huge no no. There are ways around this of course (this is where mixed boomburst throat spray sets came from) but it is still a huge problem. Not to mention even if you do get to be able to use acrobatics not only is Wogerpon still faster and can slam you with power whip still but it can also tera water and get rid of its flying weakness meaning all of your work (or sacrifice of an item) was for nothing. This is probably one of the most dominant matchups I have ever seen in if not the whole of competitive singles at least sv.

This dynamic alone probably should have been good enough but of course not every team can/wants to run Wogerpon. Luckily however there are other pokemon in ou that can help. One of the best examples of this is Rillaboom who not only has a priority grass move in grassy glide but also has enough bulk to live even a choice banded wave crash once and cb jet punch around 3 times. There is also Zapdos who can beat Palfin offensively and defensively as it is and bulky electric type who can fire off a strong volt switch/discharge and can punish a lead Palafin by switching in on a baby Palafin using flip turn and (sometimes) give it paralysis thanks to its ability static. This is one of the funniest and most satisfying interactions in gen 9 ou and it is the biggest reason why only choice band Palafin should use flip turn (and even then). Then there is Dragapult which took me personally by surprise. It even tanks choice band wave crash surprisingly well (yes, I know it resists but Dragapult is pretty frail) with it 2hkoing. This leaves Dragapult ways to both annoy and outright kill Palafin such as outright killing it with specs shadow ball or burning it with will o wisp. There is Raging Bolt who quad resists Palafin and has electric sucker punch which means it kos a Palafin locked into wave crash/close combat. Even bulk up sets aren't a big problem since Raging Bolt still easily tanks jet punch and kos back with thunderbolt (or draco meteor depending on if Palafin teras. There is Meowscarada who sucks but can tank a jet punch and beat bulk up sets with its always critting flower trick. Kyurem doesn't take Palafin's fighting coverage particularly well (especially band which can outspeed it) but it easily beats bulk up sets with its subtect set or specs using freeze dry. Dragonite has multiscale and extreme speed so it can set up on all sets (except ice punch on choice band but that doesn't sound good into anything else so I doubt anyone would have used it) and out priority jet punch with a powerful tera normal extreme speed (which only 2hkos both major sets admittedly so you would need to be careful). There is Zamazenta who easily walls Palafin with its iron defense body press set just as it walls almost every other physical threat. The final big one I would like to mention is Dondozo who laughs at even a choice banded close combat and sets up to eventually kill with waterfall (or body press if you aren't afraid of no ghost). There are other checks too that I haven't mentioned such as water absorb Clodsire and Sinistcha but all the ones I have mentioned above are the big ones that usually beats both sets.

Of course, with tera Palafin can send some of these checks into oblivion, but these have their own problems. Steel is a great tera type but it is left vulnerable to fire, fighting, and ground and while fire and ground types aren't particularly threatening, fighting and ground moves are some of the most common coverage types in the game with many pokemon having a fighting or ground type move in their arsenal. There is Fighting which gives close combat/drain punch a boost in power, but it is not great defensively with it being weak to fairy psychic and flying as well as not having many useful resistances (dark resist is kind of nice for Kingambit and other good dark types but it isn't usually very worth it). There is Grass which allows you to resist electric and grass but now you are even more scared of Kyurem (plus now you get revenge killed at low health by Weavile) and are bullied by bulky poison pokemon such as Pecharunt and the more rare but still relevant Okidogi and Vileplume. The final one I would like to mention is my personal favorite Dragon which does make you scared of ice types like tera Grass does, it gives you more resists, a good neutral hitting move in tera blast dragon (which also is more powerful than ice punch except against Dragonite), and while you are scared of fairy types and steel types resist your tera blast, your water and fighting moves help patch this up. However, it isn't perfect as it makes you more vulnerable to faster dragon types (especially Dragapult who laughs in your face) and Wogerpon often runs play rough which easily dispatches it. There are plenty of ways to play around these teras and Palafin isn't really the best tera abuser anyway since it doesn't usually gain much offensively unless you tera Water which doesn't give you any new defensive benefits. Not to mention of course that other pokemon can tera too allowing them to survive Palafins attacks with ease.

Now while Palafin may not be unhealthy there is of course the question of what it contributes to the tier because obviously even if it is healthy if it doesn't bring anything to the tier there is no point in keeping it. However, I would argue there was a couple of really good things it brought to the tier. First off, Gliscor gets destroyed by Palafin as even tera Water can't save it from those choice banded wave crashes once you get it low enough. Even without choice band that 160 attack doesn't pull its punches and jet punch alone can easily end Gliscor's whole career. Of course, Palafin isn't on every team and Gliscor would still be good, but I don't think anyone would even consider Gliscor broken in a meta where Palafin exists. Another great thing Palafin provides is strong water priority in jet punch. Now yes, I know we have like 15 viable priority users in the tier already, but strong water priority allows Palafin to take out a lot of the scariest threats in the tier such as Iron Moth, Tera Fire Kyurem, and Tera Ground Roaring Moon. Water priority, while not as good in this department as extreme speed, also provides great neutral coverage which is always useful in my opinion.

In conclusion, I do not feel Palafin should have been banned. It wasn't unhealthy and it even contributed to the tier. It had plenty of checks/counters and it wasn't that good of a tera abuser. Maybe one day (not any time soon of course like a year or 2 from now) we could get another suspect and maybe it will be ou in gen 10. For now, thank you for reading and I promise not to make any more posts about Palafin unless it is about this one. Have a good day!
idt most people thought it was broken. in my experience people thought it'd be fine but it'd encourage more usage of waterpon, zapdos, raging bolt, mola, etc, and lead to a more cancerous, MORE bulky offense-infested metagame.
 
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