Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4

And Walking Wake has 5.9% usage
I fucking knew it. I'm the fucking goat yall.

Anyways Walking Wake going from almost being QBed to almost falling to BL is insane. Almost as if QBs are a bad idea (unless the mon is Flutter Mane level shit) hmmmm.

Anyways. I've been lowkey calling RUBL BL2 and NUBL BL3 as of late. I like those names more honestly. If you see me say "Mew rose from BL3 to UU" just know that BL2 = RUBL, BL3 = NUBL, BL4 = PUBL, so on, and so forth.
 
Anyways Walking Wake going from almost being QBed to almost falling to BL is insane. Almost as if QBs are a bad idea (unless the mon is Flutter Mane level shit) hmmmm.
I mean, the meta was much more friendly to it when it dropped than it is now. It's two biggest ops in Ogerpon and Primarina didn't exist yet. We were using AV Azu to check it lmao. I don't think it's quite fair to say QBs are a bad idea with current Wake as your evidence when it was way crazier before.
 

What do people think of this video? I think he made a lot of great points and I think its worth sharing here
I think it's really awesome creators engage with our metagame and I applaud his efforts personally.

Obviously everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I disagree with some of what he said. Please please please do not take this as me trying to silence him -- I actually would rather people be open and comfortable being critical. This is how we communicate, grow to understand each other, and improve anyway. Think most of his gripes are with the generation's releases anyway.

What I will say is his description of Tera is really questionable and he claims Iron Valiant is a prime example of power creep being problematic when it is arguably the most balance Pokemon in the entire metagame, hardly ever cleaning so much as revenge killing and trading in excess at this point. Regarding Tera, there are very few true 50/50s and he does not acknowledge things like the defensive merits, claiming it is largely offensive, or the reward for knowledge and experience. Beyond that, I think there is an equation between HO being common, which it is (albeit not more than multiple other gens), and the tier being unstable which is just not true either. Finally, he says HO can mitigate hazards due to switching less, but they also fit boots a ton less than balanced and end up forced to fit treads/glim a fair amount (and it is the main style Hatt works on), so I think that there is a ton more nuance here.
 
SV OU is dominated by offense and having some kind of way to disrupt opposing offense and support your own is huge this gen. Ninetales has way more utility than Torkoal because of its access to Encore and Healing Wish, and its speed lets it take advantage of these moves. Torkoal has historically been better due to Rocks + Spin + good bulk and Wisp but this utility is a little less valuable for Sun this gen than what Ninetales provides. Additionally, Torkoal lost Yawn to the sleep ban, leaving Clear Smog as its only option to stop setup. Torkoal is just a huge momentum drain for Sun as opposed to Ninetales.

The main thing keeping Torkoal usage above Ninetales earlier this gen was simply lack of experimentation. Ninetales slowly became more popular as people started experimenting more with it. I think probably a big part of it is how ass Ninetales has been historically in comparison to Torkoal, leaving few people to try to mess with it when Torkoal is known to be better.
Ninetales is also way more reusable than torkoal. With the increased power level of OU and prevalence of leads such as tusk, glimmora, or hammurot, torkoal will often find itself unable to do anything against opposing leads. Ninetales, however, has a higher speed stat than all of these and has options to deal with them such as leveraging encore to either pivot out safely or force the opponent to switch, and with more tools for future switch-ins such as healing wish, it really does wind up a better option than torkoal in most situations.

Bear in mind that even with solar beam it doesn't have a 100% OHKO on any one of these guys and modest ninetales gets outsped by tusk, but it's still a chance to OHKO and most lead hamms and glimms are running sash anyways
 
I think it's really awesome creators engage with our metagame and I applaud his efforts personally.

Obviously everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I disagree with some of what he said. Please please please do not take this as me trying to silence him -- I actually would rather people be open and comfortable being critical. This is how we communicate, grow to understand each other, and improve anyway. Think most of his gripes are with the generation's releases anyway.

What I will say is his description of Tera is really questionable and he claims Iron Valiant is a prime example of power creep being problematic when it is arguably the most balance Pokemon in the entire metagame, hardly ever cleaning so much as revenge killing and trading in excess at this point. Regarding Tera, there are very few true 50/50s and he does not acknowledge things like the defensive merits, claiming it is largely offensive, or the reward for knowledge and experience. Beyond that, I think there is an equation between HO being common, which it is (albeit not more than multiple other gens), and the tier being unstable which is just not true either. Finally, he says HO can mitigate hazards due to switching less, but they also fit boots a ton less than balanced and end up forced to fit treads/glim a fair amount (and it is the main style Hatt works on), so I think that there is a ton more nuance here.
all right i'm gonna take issue with you calling iron valiant "arguably the most balanced pokemon in the entire metagame" because we all know the most balanced mon here is iron treads. bro deserves a fucking nobel peace prize for being able to succeed in this ou without any kind of jank or nonsense, just classic non-gimmick lead/pivot stuff
 
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2279740710

completely random replay showing the power of band moon. i honestly wasnt sold on this before, but after seeing it vs no fairy, it feels much more legit
I dislike how the STABs don’t really help each other too much and that it’s relying on a main STAB that gets weaker the second time you use it. Definitely is a really fun mon to play with but Waterpon is just better imo for a breaker that has access to both Knock and U-turn.
and I definitely say counter in this case
252+ Atk Choice Band Palafin-Hero Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ogerpon-Wellspring: 182-215 (60.4 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Not to mention Waterpon is going to get chipped down by hazards and also probably has an important role on its team. You can’t really just switch it into Palafin and expect no repercussions especially since if you don’t switch it in something’s going to take a billion percent from a wave crash or flip turn.
Of course, with tera Palafin can send some of these checks into oblivion, but these have their own problems.
You state a problem, that it can matchup fish, and then just say “it matchup fishes, so some matchups will be bad” and say that stops it from being a problem?
There are plenty of ways to play around these teras
You just listed like five different Tera types, could you list some reliable counterplay for each one?

First off, Gliscor gets destroyed by Palafin as even tera Water can't save it from those choice banded wave crashes once you get it low enough. Even without choice band that 160 attack doesn't pull its punches and jet punch alone can easily end Gliscor's whole career. Of course, Palafin isn't on every team and Gliscor would still be good, but I don't think anyone would even consider Gliscor broken in a meta where Palafin exists.
So an unhealthy mon can OHKO another unhealthy mon. Why is that a reason to keep the first unhealthy mon? And Palafin doesn’t even want to switch into Gliscor for fear of Toxic or Knock Off.
In conclusion, I do not feel Palafin should have been banned. It wasn't unhealthy and it even contributed to the tier.
What do you mean wasn’t unhealthy? CB Palafin has very specific switch ins and aside from the Water Absorb mons Clodsire and Waterpon (having to use other ones for Palafin just shows how unhealthy it is) it literally just comes in and spams flip turn to bring in teammates for free. As for the water absorb mons, those can just be taken care of with a prediction and Palafin teams pack switch ins to these as well. As for what it brings positively to the tier, saying it OHKOes Gliscor is just straight-up not an argument, and while strong priority is definitely nice, a lot of setup sweepers and fast mons resist Jet Punch and the tier already has enough counter play to setup sweepers without Palafin. Definitely was right to ban that mon.
wanted to ask bc im curious, how many non speed boosting/just slow mons have you all had success with running +offensive natures viably in this meta? been trying stuff like modest keld on webs, and the power difference can be shocking when you make up for the speed
Been messing around with SD adamant Val in Webs instead of modest and since it gets a booster boost to Atk and SD doubles its attack it has some insane calcs like consistently OHKOing phys def corv at +2
Walking Wake still exists outside of sun as a Boots pivot. Getting Knock + Flip Turn is really nice for a strong special attacker, which pivot Raging Bolt sets do not have. I'd say sunless Wake is niche but definitely decent on the right team comp. I'd assume sun setters have around 0.5% combined less usage than Wake.
Knock Flip Turn Scald combo is cool, but I messed around with it and it’s knock is always absorbed by clef and Mola and Pex and it doesn’t do too much vs offence. Just wanted to add that there used to be the booster SpA Agility sets that were fun.
Anyways U-Turn is a fine move, I just wish it had less distribution. I wish they added a damageless pivoting normal pivoting move (cough cough) and then nerfed u-turn distribution. That way, the common pivot move can't make progress as easily and it also has taunt counterplay. That'd be so cool.
Yeah I feel like pivoting in earlier gens generally means “oh I’ll switch in this mon, and then bait out a move for this mon to switch into and force theirs out, and I’ll have kept their threat at bay while getting mine in” or “I go to x mon to double switch this offensive threat in” and pivoting in later gens just means “I go to defensive mon and click move to get offensive mon in”.
 
Last edited:
I dislike how the STABs don’t really help each other too much and that it’s relying on a main STAB that gets weaker the second time you use it. Definitely is a really fun mon to play with but Waterpon is just better imo for a breaker that has access to both Knock and U-turn.
Band Moon really only fits on sun, you're right. Having access to both Booster Speed (or attack if you're INSANELY greedy) and Choice Band. Otherwise, don't use it.
 
I think it's really awesome creators engage with our metagame and I applaud his efforts personally.

Obviously everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I disagree with some of what he said. Please please please do not take this as me trying to silence him -- I actually would rather people be open and comfortable being critical. This is how we communicate, grow to understand each other, and improve anyway. Think most of his gripes are with the generation's releases anyway.

What I will say is his description of Tera is really questionable and he claims Iron Valiant is a prime example of power creep being problematic when it is arguably the most balance Pokemon in the entire metagame, hardly ever cleaning so much as revenge killing and trading in excess at this point. Regarding Tera, there are very few true 50/50s and he does not acknowledge things like the defensive merits, claiming it is largely offensive, or the reward for knowledge and experience. Beyond that, I think there is an equation between HO being common, which it is (albeit not more than multiple other gens), and the tier being unstable which is just not true either. Finally, he says HO can mitigate hazards due to switching less, but they also fit boots a ton less than balanced and end up forced to fit treads/glim a fair amount (and it is the main style Hatt works on), so I think that there is a ton more nuance here.
While I don't think I agree with the way he thinks tera is I do think the tier is better off without it. Because while the impact isn't healthy in my opinion I know its a nuanced impact, I think tera makes offense and the power level too constraining and volatile personally even with its defensive merit, and enables matchup fishing too well. Like there are a lot more reasons I don't like the dynamics it creates but those are the main ones.

I know I have had this take for a while, and while I kinda don't care about banning tera anymore if the chance ever happens I would vote ban and probably attempt to sweat reqs again

I'm interested to see how Pinkacross and Blunder are gauging interest on a potential tera ban or suspect and whether they can rally enough support because both are, which I am interested to see how that plays out. Pinkacross did a teraless tournament and that looked super fun
 
really good video I think everyone should check out, I really think this Mon should be discussed for tiering action soon
I'm not even THAT pro-ban pon but hearing manaphy and mola arguments make me roll my eyes into my head.

1) manaphy would not be broken without pon. Objectively. We can clear that up right. It struggles into so much and has "yet another balance breaker in a meta where balance is mid" syndrome

2) mola would not be broken without pon. Subjectively. I see how it could start to get a little cancer. But to be honest, mola is way less broken than pon. And if mola is broken anyways? Ban it! No mola and no pon >>> mola and pon. Idgaf. Stall will survive. Balance will survive.

Ban pon.
 

What do people think of this video? I think he made a lot of great points and I think its worth sharing here
I agree with everything he said, I cannot stand current Gen 9, it's the most frustrating and unbalanced experience I have ever had, I'd argue Gen 2 is more fun than whatever this is. Every game is decided by 50-50, power creep is out of the roof and you cannot predict anything consistently, this tier is terrible, to say the least, I know I sound a bit mad but I genuinely cannot play this tier anymore, and I was in wcop, these are all personal opinions but it is a fact that this gen power creep is through the roof (which is NOT a good thing, and instead of banning broken mons we ADD MORE, I do not understand how this happened. genuinely.) we can also argue that tera is fundamentally broken. Taking valiant as an example as he did with the amount of sets and teras that thing can run it's more like a 10-10-10-10-10-10-10-10-10-10 than a 50-50. I am at my limit. This tier has no saving and it's not gonna get better I am pretty sure, I shall play old gens and pray Gen 10 comes fast (and doesn't get completely ruined like this one) Even if we ban 6 Mons right now Gen 9 is not even gonna get that much better, we need to ban tera, I get fun and let's all be more casual! But genuinely this tier is torture, and I don't want to see it ever again, this is the opposite of fun. LOL welp. Please ban or restrict tera (ban it)
A survey is coming next week, but honestly, I am not hopeful at all, let's see what happens.


schizoposting on main: done
 
I'm not even THAT pro-ban pon but hearing manaphy and mola arguments make me roll my eyes into my head.

1) manaphy would not be broken without pon. Objectively. We can clear that up right. It struggles into so much and has "yet another balance breaker in a meta where balance is mid" syndrome

2) mola would not be broken without pon. Subjectively. I see how it could start to get a little cancer. But to be honest, mola is way less broken than pon. And if mola is broken anyways? Ban it! No mola and no pon >>> mola and pon. Idgaf. Stall will survive. Balance will survive.

Ban pon.


I agree with this. Mola without Pon still has to deal with Clodsire and Volcanion. The first one spams hazards and status, the second one is a good breaker that bypasses Mola unless it uses Mirror Coat. There are other decent Water immune Mons such as Poliwrath (Knock Off + Circle Throw + epic typing that checks every Dark Mon except Moon), Toxicroak (Rain Mon that has impressive movepool and interesting typing), Gastrodon (Clodsire but without the Poison moves and typing), Vaporeon (the Regenless Mola that has much better special bulk and offensive presence while invalidating Mola) or Tatsugiri (spinner than can also sweep with NP sometimes). Apart from that, there is also the general Mola passivity that lets many Mons to take advantage of it, you don,t have to run immunities to prevent it from doing its job.

Manaphy has an even worse case. Its RUBL. It not only is balanced and with almost no usage in OU, but its also balanced and almost no usage in UU. So, in the unlikely case it starts to look problematic (which won,t happen, cause OU has a lot of Grass types, Electric types, Kyurem, Water + coverage resists, special walls, strong and faster revenge killers, etc.) in OU, we just go to UU Tier, see what Mons are giving troubles to Manaphy there for it to have such low usage and chances are at least half of them will be viable in OU.

Waterpon is currently (at least for me) the most problematic OU Mon, more than Kyurem ever dreams to be. Hopefully the survey ends up reflecting that.
 
I agree with everything he said, I cannot stand current Gen 9, it's the most frustrating and unbalanced experience I have ever had, I'd argue Gen 2 is more fun than whatever this is. Every game is decided by 50-50, power creep is out of the roof and you cannot predict anything consistently, this tier is terrible, to say the least, I know I sound a bit mad but I genuinely cannot play this tier anymore, and I was in wcop, these are all personal opinions but it is a fact that this gen power creep is through the roof (which is NOT a good thing, and instead of banning broken mons we ADD MORE, I do not understand how this happened. genuinely.) we can also argue that tera is fundamentally broken. Taking valiant as an example as he did with the amount of sets and teras that thing can run it's more like a 10-10-10-10-10-10-10-10-10-10 than a 50-50. I am at my limit. This tier has no saving and it's not gonna get better I am pretty sure, I shall play old gens and pray Gen 10 comes fast (and doesn't get completely ruined like this one) Even if we ban 6 Mons right now Gen 9 is not even gonna get that much better, we need to ban tera, I get fun and let's all be more casual! But genuinely this tier is torture, and I don't want to see it ever again, this is the opposite of fun. LOL welp. Please ban or restrict tera (ban it)
A survey is coming next week, but honestly, I am not hopeful at all, let's see what happens.


schizoposting on main: done
I feel like people like this should be ignored because gen 9 has had to handle the same two arguments about Tera 50/50s and power creep since day 1. Like these issues have been baking in the oven since before flutter mane was banned to ubers. Idk. Maybe spout some new arguments when nobody really cares to listen to these old ones anymore.

Gen 9 is a fun metagame to me, it's dynamic and has a multitude of viable playstyles, stall is varied but centralized and not that hard to break, HO is varied but not varied to the point where it's broken, Tera is dynamic and creates fun and skillful prediction scenarios, the paradox mons are cool, etc. Gen 9 is really fun to me! I think coming here just to complain about the same two issues is really dumb and a massive waste of time.
 
Taking valiant as an example as he did with the amount of sets and teras that thing can run it's more like a 10-10-10-10-10-10-10-10-10-10 than a 50-50.
this isn’t even really the case, val has 3 common sets (all out attacker, SD, and CM). AOA runs knock cc moonblast +1, SD runs knock cc sd +1, cm runs moonblast/cm + 2 coverage or encore
these sets are not varied enough to say you don’t have a generally good idea of what they’re running or have a chance of running.

tera and coverage may help it overcome SOME of its negative mus- but take tera ghost CM val for an example. If val both a) gets a free turn to CM and b) has tera available, it is still not even able to OHKO the primary special wall in the tier, Slowking-Galar

+1 252 SpA Tera Ghost Iron Valiant Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Slowking-Galar: 254-300 (64.4 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Gking is able to come in and cripple val or pivot to a mon that further offensively/defensively checks it.

I really don’t know what kind of teams you could be running that have that little counterplay into val for you to think that. Val can get blanked by a lot of common defensive mons with good positioning and set/team awareness.

I don’t think that saying Val is the most balanced mon in the metagame is at all true, but describing it as a 10-10-10-etc is just disingenuous.
 
I feel like people like this should be ignored because gen 9 has had to handle the same two arguments about Tera 50/50s and power creep since day 1. Like these issues have been baking in the oven since before flutter mane was banned to ubers. Idk. Maybe spout some new arguments when nobody really cares to listen to these old ones anymore.

Gen 9 is a fun metagame to me, it's dynamic and has a multitude of viable playstyles, stall is varied but centralized and not that hard to break, HO is varied but not varied to the point where it's broken, Tera is dynamic and creates fun and skillful prediction scenarios, the paradox mons are cool, etc. Gen 9 is really fun to me! I think coming here just to complain about the same two issues is really dumb and a massive waste of time.
Ah yes, let's all ignore opinions we don't like! Very fair and smart. I can say the same about people who defend Tera, it's always the same stuff from day one, you can predict it, it's balanced, it requires skill, etc, nothing has changed from day 1 because just like the tier was broken day one, it still is broken, it might as well be worse than before actually, this tier rn is in a state that's quite sad tbh. I am still complaining about this, because from day one, barely anything has changed. I write here, because I'd like for change in this tier to happen, real change, not banning 3 mons and calling it a day, while in the meantime we have a meta based on broken checks broken, I love my Kingambit Zamazenta interactions! While I'd prefer a full ban for tera, I am fine with a restriction too, but nothing will change for this tier which is objectively very divisive currently, if we don't do anything for it, and don't talk about its problems no, I have to say this, you are free to disagree with me, but you're not free to shut me up. I truly hope for good change in this tier, but I do not know if we will get it, I can only hope that a tera option is in the survey, and people click on it, in the first place we were promised a second tera suspect that in the end never happened, so I hope we can get one this time around. There are too many problems in this tier and I can see how it might give the people who manage it a headache, but I think this tier needs deep change. I know very few people who genuinely enjoy the current sv.
 
Ah yes, let's all ignore opinions we don't like! Very fair and smart. I can say the same about people who defend Tera, it's always the same stuff from day one, you can predict it, it's balanced, it requires skill, etc, nothing has changed from day 1 because just like the tier was broken day one, it still is broken, it might as well be worse than before actually, this tier rn is in a state that's quite sad tbh. I am still complaining about this, because from day one, barely anything has changed. I write here, because I'd like for change in this tier to happen, real change, not banning 3 mons and calling it a day, while in the meantime we have a meta based on broken checks broken, I love my Kingambit Zamazenta interactions! While I'd prefer a full ban for tera, I am fine with a restriction too, but nothing will change for this tier which is objectively very divisive currently, if we don't do anything for it, and don't talk about its problems no, I have to say this, you are free to disagree with me, but you're not free to shut me up. I truly hope for good change in this tier, but I do not know if we will get it, I can only hope that a tera option is in the survey, and people click on it, in the first place we were promised a second tera suspect that in the end never happened, so I hope we can get one this time around. There are too many problems in this tier and I can see how it might give the people who manage it a headache, but I think this tier needs deep change. I know very few people who genuinely enjoy the current sv.
"You're not free to shut me up" shut up

If all you're gonna do when entering forums is complain, why are you even here? Come back when shit you want is actually changing. I'm not fully opposed to a Tera ban, but talk about it is useless when it's one of the most drawn out miserable conflicts that's been talked to death over and over again. Discuss things that create healthy discussion, like Tera Blast ban (which has been gaining steam for a while) Waterpon ban (again, popular as of late) or new sets and mons you'd like to share! Shitting on the meta for no reason is just a complete waste of breath and it really doesn't help anyone.
 
cm runs moonblast/cm + 2 coverage or encore
why would you say this to support the argument that valiant sets are not that varied when that "+2" can be shadow ball, psyshock, thunderbolt, sub, focus blast, encore, destiny bond and so on (assuming you actually guessed right and it was cm).
to some degree you can predict what they are going to have based on their team or way the brought it in, but the more annoying thing is having to guess which one of the 8 tera options it will turn into while also potentially having to commit bringing in gholdengo or glowking on sd and then having to rely on your own tera to beat it in that scenario.

not saying valiant is broken because it doesn't really do enough damage to sweep on its own unless it has the perfect set but it definitely highlights an aspect of the game i find annoying.
 
why would you say this to support the argument that valiant sets are not that varied when that "+2" can be shadow ball, psyshock, thunderbolt, sub, focus blast, encore, destiny bond and so on (assuming you actually guessed right and it was cm).
to some degree you can predict what they are going to have based on their team or way the brought it in, but the more annoying thing is having to guess which one of the 8 tera options it will turn into while also potentially having to commit bringing in gholdengo or glowking on sd and then having to rely on your own tera to beat it in that scenario.

not saying valiant is broken because it doesn't really do enough damage to sweep on its own unless it has the perfect set but it definitely highlights an aspect of the game i find annoying.
+2 is 9/10 times Shadow Ball and encore. Sometimes it's psyshock (stall fish) and sometimes it's tbolt and dbond. Usually, though, you'll be fine expecting those moves. CM ival is nearly always tera ghost shadow Ball, to add on.

Iron Valiant is barely a sweeper. It's an endgame cleaner, and pretending like it's some kind of unpredictable 6-0 machine that cleans teams like no other is straight up just lying to hate on SV OU (not targeting you specifically). Usually, if it comes in, it's really late in the game to win (if they get into that position, they deserve it) or you getting reeeeeeally unlucky with the set and then spotting an opportunity (very rare). Otherwise, it gets a kill and usually trades.
 
why would you say this to support the argument that valiant sets are not that varied when that "+2" can be shadow ball, psyshock, thunderbolt, sub, focus blast, encore, destiny bond and so on (assuming you actually guessed right and it was cm).
the coverage it does have doesn’t really change the counterplay into it- slowking-g is still able to cripple val a lot of the time even if it’s tera ghost shadow ball, Stall teams are bulky enough to take hits from val even if it runs psyshock, a move which is useless in essentially every other matchup.

the vast majority of the time, the 3rd move on CM val is shadow ball because you get walled by Gholdengo and Gking without it.

the only set with entirely different counterplay (SD) is both the rarest of the 3 val variants and is a lot more easily checked by the wide variety of physical walls in the format (dozo, alo, tusk) and offensively checked by priority more easily due to its reliance on tera dark for boosted damage on knock off.

The point of my post was to say that Val is diverse, but the set diversity does not change counterplay into it to the extent that OP claimed. OP characterized Val as a mon with an immense amount of viable sets and tera types with the implication that it is somehow unablanced and unfair. Val does have a very deep and customizable movepool but is not capable of immediately running away with the game if you play competently and use well-built teams.
 
Last edited:
the coverage it does have doesn’t really change the counterplay into it- slowking-g is still able to cripple val a lot of the time even if it’s tera ghost shadow ball, Stall teams are bulky enough to take hits from val even if it runs psyshock, a move which is useless in essentially every other matchup.

the vast majority of the time, the 3rd move on CM val is shadow ball because you get walled by Gholdengo and Gking without it.

the only set with entirely different counterplay (SD) is both the rarest of the 3 val variants and is a lot more easily checked by the wide variety of physical walls in the format (dozo, alo, tusk) and offensively checked by priority more easily due to its reliance on tera dark for boosted damage on knock off.

The point of my post was to say that Val is diverse, but the set diversity does not change counterplay into it to the extent that OP claimed. OP characterized Val as a mon with an immense amount of viable sets and tera types with the implication that it is somehow unablanced and unfair. Val does have a very deep and customizable movepool but is not capable of immediately running away with the game if you play competently and use well-built teams.
agree with everything but i was thinking of this in the shower and

ED476FB3-A878-4AFC-8717-AC77F14E4286.jpeg
 
"You're not free to shut me up" shut up

If all you're gonna do when entering forums is complain, why are you even here? Come back when shit you want is actually changing. I'm not fully opposed to a Tera ban, but talk about it is useless when it's one of the most drawn out miserable conflicts that's been talked to death over and over again. Discuss things that create healthy discussion, like Tera Blast ban (which has been gaining steam for a while) Waterpon ban (again, popular as of late) or new sets and mons you'd like to share!
Ok, this is the last message I am sending, because this conversation is going nowhere. In the first place, you were the one to attack me, I wasn't talking to you, and I was responding to a video that was sent in here saying I agree, apparently, you can't even do that. I see. In the post I responded to it also asked for opinions on the video, but apparently, I cannot say mine since I don't agree with you. Welp. You can keep this tread and this tier for yourself, I am not that interested. Normally one should be able to express their opinion freely but I guess this isn't the case
The point of my post was to say that Val is diverse, but the set diversity does not change counterplay into it to the extent that OP claimed. OP characterized Val as a mon with an immense amount of viable sets and tera types with the implication that it is somehow unablanced and unfair. Val does have a very deep and customizable movepool but is not capable of immediately running away with the game if you play competently and use well-built teams.

I never said any of this. I just said that it's quite hard to predict what Valiant will do since there are an insane amount of sets for it and a lot of teras that are viable on it. Making it hard to predict what it will do. Never said anything about it running away with games.
 
agree with everything but i was thinking of this in the shower and

View attachment 704922
Iron Valiant sets:
-Choice Band (fake)
-Choice Specs
-Choice Scarf
-SD (Booster atk or spe)
-CM (Booster SpA or spe)
-Mixed (Booster spe or lorb)

Dragapult sets:
-Sash double status
-Standard boots (wisp/twave + ddarts + hex)
-Special boots (Draco + hex + twave)
-Dragon Dance (Life Orb or Leftovers or Boots or sash)
-Choice Band
-Choice Specs
-Choice Scarf (kinda fake)

Idk man pult has just as many as ival. But I get what you mean tbh, ival has less sets but more options within those sets.
 
Ok, this is the last message I am sending, because this conversation is going nowhere. In the first place, you were the one to attack me, I wasn't talking to you, and I was responding to a video that was sent in here saying I agree, apparently, you can't even do that. I see. In the post I responded to it also asked for opinions on the video, but apparently, I cannot say mine since I don't agree with you. Welp. You can keep this tread and this tier for yourself, I am not that interested. Normally one should be able to express their opinion freely but I guess this isn't the case


I never said any of this. I just said that it's quite hard to predict what Valiant will do since there are an insane amount of sets for it and a lot of teras that are viable on it. Making it hard to predict what it will do. Never said anything about it running away with games.
Eh, you're right in that it can be hard to predict, but you can generally know whether it's physical or special (if there's a gambit + zama, you know it's probably cm, and if there's a bolt + moth + primarina, you know it's probably SD) and after that first turn you generally realize what set it is. Just click Protect on Spdef Gliscor (a good check to almost all sets), or just go your neutral scout (usually a Lando, AV mola, or gking) and find out the moveset. It's usually not terribly difficult because of team comp scouting.
 
Back
Top