How much does TBlast Flying do
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
An equally strong move that's 2x STAB? Guaranteed OHKO out the fucking wazoo lmao.
Remember, STAB moves turn moves that 3KO into moves that 2KO. 33% x 1.5 = 50%. Never underestimate random teras.
no, lando fills markedly different roles than moon and dnite- those two are setup sweepers while lando is a pivot
usually you’d see it on scarf lando such as on this team
https://pokepast.es/6047c8c2d00fe8d1
i believe it used to be a sample team
SD Lando does exist, though. It can absolutely be hard to fit tblast when you need edge/quake, SD, and probably u-turn or rocks or something, but it's not unviable. Non-pivot landos need to be explored more IMO, maybe on bulkier structures.
What do you guys think the most famous team of gen 9 OU is? I've heard mentions for CTC's legendary keldeo/sinistcha duo, the famous "dark n' darker" offense, and the obscenely annoying and aggravating prime pult squad. More minor mentions would be the Reflect Araquanid Duckular webs squad, Knexhawk (ew.)'s Ting-Lu Stall, etc. What do yall think?
brainless CTC tripple dark offense ez
The amount of brainless triple dark offenses in SV OU is obscene to the level that I don't know which one you're referring to.
i mean you can, the issue is just that you’re so slow you can maybe take 1 KO and then you get revenged
it’s not fat like gliscor, which even if it’s way weaker has the longevity to damage trade way more effectively than lando.
especially after losing rock polish SD lando is just kinda outclassed, it can fit on certain builds i have no doubt but i don’t really think it’s deserving of anything beyond limited lip service
I agree. What I will say though is that playing balance and seeing an unexpected SD lando is absolutely fucking terrifying. Up there with NP pecharunt and ddance pult for "the most pants-shittingly scary mons that can randomly click setup moves"
https://pokepast.es/d9df62e9be9b2385
https://pokepast.es/9703724f49be3b7a
i was more thinking dark n darker between the two but
My pick is also dark n darker. That team is still fucking everywhere and has been for a long ass time. I can't ever foresee a future where it's unviable.
Subtracting sets from sweepers with Tera blast ban is not insignificant. Knowing where coverage lacks is huge. Match up fishing is decreased significantly. It's an improvement of the game no matter how u shake it, while still preserving generation mechanic.
It must be done
It must be done
Exactly! It's a quality of life change that gives us a new healthy kyurem answer (volcarona <3) that fits on LITERALLY every style from stall to HO, and it also gives us reduced MU fishing. Ban tblast
I'm so used to Volcarona picking and choosing what it loses to in this gen that I forgot it was a genuinely decent pick in Stall teams as a burn spreader. That, and another switch in to Rillaboom's Grass STAB. Just make sure to preserve your tims, though!
Yeah it was on the previous sample teams list, the one before the current slate.
It's a fun composition, too. I appreciate how Scarf Lando can put pressure on plenty of common leads with its good immediate power, and how it can afford to fast pivot out against Dragapult and Kyurem, and deal very good damage to Samurott-H, Meowscarada and Darkrai leads by U-turn'ing.
Having to scout out potential/rare Scarves for some of the aforementioned can be annoying. But even if they have one, a mon like Lefties Kingambit can switch in at least once (if not more) into Meows Triple Axel/Knock Off, or Kyu Freeze-Dry, or Rai Ice Beam/Dark Pulse. If they're holding Scarf, they'll switch out, but if they aren't, your opponent may be tempted to use a different move vs Gambit, like U-turn, Earth Power, or Focus Blast/Will-O-Wisp respectively, against which you could then reposition. That makes it easier to scout their moveset/items and navigate the rest of the battle.
If it comes back i expect it's primary set will be mono attack- which can be scary enough to be honest. But fire and waters will always win. It won't be matchup moth just really reliable burny moth that can also quiver dance and win if you let it. But it will be easier than Gambit to account for.tblastless kyurem will be more sketchy than a tblastless moth at that point due to dd or subtect, but still improvement
Volcarona was genuinely a high tier stallmon early gen.
Right now it's kinda just a third Fire Bird. Talonflame has Defog, and Moltres has great all-around defensive stats. However, Volcarona does have a niche, and it might even be better than Moltres.
1) obscene stats. It's faster than moltres, allowing you to hit nice points like outspeeding gambit and gliscor with no investment and dnite with low investment, and it also hits OBSCENELY hard unboosted (same spa as flutter mane btw) which allows it to actually make decent progress in a game.
2) nukes kyurem. Defensive volcarona is a FFANTASTIC kyurem answer. That's pretty much it.
If volcarona gets dropped, I can expect it to place around the B ranks of stall, along with Moltres, Sinistcha, Ting-Lu, Glowking, etc.
I think people are forgetting that Gamefreak are no longer balancing for singles. Instead, they cater primarily to their primary competitive format in doubles.
This should be obvious, given that Tera is much healthier in doubles than singles (with OTS) and many of the newly released pokemon that are broken on paper are significantly more balanced in a doubles environment.
I would say that in terms of balance they've done a decent job of keeping the meta diverse and interesting in their actual competitive format.
My point is that taking our grievances out on Gamefreak isn't very productive. It is what it is. Probably there will be some objectionable stuff once Gen 10 drops, but it doesn't really matter. Gen 9, despite its shaky patches, is a meta that a lot of people enjoy, and I think with a few small refinements (can we please get a tera blast ban
) it'll remain a well liked format for a long time. I trust the Smogon OU council to make a good metagame out of it.
This should be obvious, given that Tera is much healthier in doubles than singles (with OTS) and many of the newly released pokemon that are broken on paper are significantly more balanced in a doubles environment.
I would say that in terms of balance they've done a decent job of keeping the meta diverse and interesting in their actual competitive format.
My point is that taking our grievances out on Gamefreak isn't very productive. It is what it is. Probably there will be some objectionable stuff once Gen 10 drops, but it doesn't really matter. Gen 9, despite its shaky patches, is a meta that a lot of people enjoy, and I think with a few small refinements (can we please get a tera blast ban
To be honest, actually, I'm not sure if a Tera Blast ban would do very much to help the metagame. People that don't enjoy it are concerned with threat saturation, and I don't know how adding back Volcarona or Regieleki or whatever will change this.
However, I do want to point the following out.
When people complain about tera they often complain about its volatility or its unpredictability, and argue that this is unhealthy. "X shouldn't lose to Y, except it terad out of this weakness!" However, it's not too hard to start noticing patterns and trends in tera types if you dedicate time to understanding the metagame well. Furthermore, pokemon have limitations based on their stats, moves, and opportunity costs, regardless of typing.
Look at Kingambit, which is still kind of restrictive but illustrates this point well; its slow speed, vulnerability to status, and reliance on sucker punch are exploitable qualities regardless of what Tera type is chosen 99% of the time.
Tera is a tool that both players have and it's up to them to exploit it to their fullest. If you say 'Tera was the reason I lost this game' then that's not on the mechanic, that's on you! You should have exploited your own tera better, accomodated these situations in building, or covered your opponent's better during playing.
Although I personally am not good enough to do this with my teams, I'd say this is absolutely possible if you look at many high-level tournament level teams, which account for most common teras and have powerful teras of their own to take advantage of.
However, I think Tera Blast is exactly what these people are saying is bad about Tera. As I'm sure we all know, it resulted in the bans of Regieleki and Volcarona because it changes too much of the identities of the pokemon that use them, and I think that's what people feel like is wrong with Tera in general.
Another more minor example is like Landorus, Thundurus, Dragonite, etc. which are known for not having very powerful Flying coverage, but solve this problem through Tera.
Not only that, but it represents exactly the volatility that people complain about. I'm sure everyone has seen a Tera Ice Landorus try to catch a Gliscor at least once, and it essentially stakes the whole game on trying to catch the mistake. I'm not saying this is emblematic of every Tera Blast related interaction, of course, but it's the most illustrative of what I'm talking about.
I'm not saying that Tera Blast is broken or anything, but I definitely don't think that anyone would miss the move. It doesn't enable pokemon like Tera itself does, it transforms them entirely into things they aren't, and that's why I think people don't enjoy it.
However, I do want to point the following out.
When people complain about tera they often complain about its volatility or its unpredictability, and argue that this is unhealthy. "X shouldn't lose to Y, except it terad out of this weakness!" However, it's not too hard to start noticing patterns and trends in tera types if you dedicate time to understanding the metagame well. Furthermore, pokemon have limitations based on their stats, moves, and opportunity costs, regardless of typing.
Look at Kingambit, which is still kind of restrictive but illustrates this point well; its slow speed, vulnerability to status, and reliance on sucker punch are exploitable qualities regardless of what Tera type is chosen 99% of the time.
Tera is a tool that both players have and it's up to them to exploit it to their fullest. If you say 'Tera was the reason I lost this game' then that's not on the mechanic, that's on you! You should have exploited your own tera better, accomodated these situations in building, or covered your opponent's better during playing.
Although I personally am not good enough to do this with my teams, I'd say this is absolutely possible if you look at many high-level tournament level teams, which account for most common teras and have powerful teras of their own to take advantage of.
However, I think Tera Blast is exactly what these people are saying is bad about Tera. As I'm sure we all know, it resulted in the bans of Regieleki and Volcarona because it changes too much of the identities of the pokemon that use them, and I think that's what people feel like is wrong with Tera in general.
Another more minor example is like Landorus, Thundurus, Dragonite, etc. which are known for not having very powerful Flying coverage, but solve this problem through Tera.
Not only that, but it represents exactly the volatility that people complain about. I'm sure everyone has seen a Tera Ice Landorus try to catch a Gliscor at least once, and it essentially stakes the whole game on trying to catch the mistake. I'm not saying this is emblematic of every Tera Blast related interaction, of course, but it's the most illustrative of what I'm talking about.
I'm not saying that Tera Blast is broken or anything, but I definitely don't think that anyone would miss the move. It doesn't enable pokemon like Tera itself does, it transforms them entirely into things they aren't, and that's why I think people don't enjoy it.
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i'd say being able to consistently revenge kill +1 roaring moon is just as important a use case for tblast ice on lando tbh
I'm voting for this one:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ogrepon-wellspring-ho-2018-elo-88-gxe-60-7-w-l-record.3728084/
A bit older now compared to slightly more modern variants of the same team but this one was absolutely everywhere for such a long time, and Valiant absolutely deserves to be included.
Either way, Gen 9's signature lineup is without a doubt Glimmora + Kingambit + Zamazenta + 2 booster speed setup sweepers and a 6th mon of your choice (Wogerpon/Dragapult/Gholdengo etc.)
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Pokepaste: https://pokepast.es/6607a5c3051be65c
Introduction
You guys ain't ready for the GREATEST STALL TEAM OF ALL TIME feat. Yung Crowbar
the GOAT. 9 months in the making you can call SupaGmoney pregnant cause he fucking delivers:Proof of Peak
Nah screw you how could you doubt Yung Crowbar
for putting in the goddamn numbers? Shame on you, be better lil broThe Team
@ Rocky HelmetAbility...
no other words needed
I don't fw quacc so I can't support this sorry. Good post tho supa
Pokepaste: https://pokepast.es/6607a5c3051be65c
Introduction
You guys ain't ready for the GREATEST STALL TEAM OF ALL TIME feat. Yung Crowbar
Proof of Peak
Nah screw you how could you doubt Yung Crowbar
The Team
Ability...
no other words needed
German 6. It was THE team and it had a ton of variants with just the same 6 mons, dominated ladder with a ton of tour usage as well.
Edit: for newcomers to the tier, the German 6 was any team with Tusk, Ace, Bax, Gking, Enam, and Gambit. Free Bax with a few complex bans, I miss him.
+1 252 Atk Kyurem Scale Shot (4 hits) vs. 244 HP / 112 Def Volcarona: 304-360 (81.7 - 96.7%) -- approx. 2HKO (pretty sure this is the EV spread bulkurona used to run)
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Draco Meteor vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 306-360 (82.2 - 96.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Volcarona is a nice Mixed and SubTect Kyurem answer but it gets destroyed by physical variants with Scale Shot (40% according to usage stats) and Specs Draco Meteor (15% run Specs). So actually Volc loses to about 55% of Kyurem sets. It's a decent check but I wouldn't say fantastic.