Whenever someone brings up a mon as an argument for tera being broken, it's almost always Kingambit. Just nooticing...
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4
- Thread starter TPP
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Is that a thing in the game or a gentleman's agreement thing where we're agreeing to tell eachother ahead of time? I don't really like it but could support if Tera blast ban doesn't ease concerns
No tera blast bans doesn't stop fire ghost dark fairy Gambits though. Fairy a little since blast usually accompanies
Edit forgot Flying
W-We need to keep it around!!! All the ghosts will become broken!!! b-but also Gambit is so easy to counter now and feels a lot weaker!!! He practically is a UUBL mon at this point!!! He's also holding the tier together!!!
I mean, I got tired of bringing up Roaring Moon in examples.
We’ve been playing suspect whack-a-mole for over two years with little to show for it. If the problem were any single Pokémon, we wouldn’t need almost monthly suspect tests.
The comparison to Hidden Power in previous generations is worth making. Of course, players had to prepare for it and understand its potential options. The difference is that Hidden Power was just one attack with a clear scope of interactions. Tera, on the other hand, brings eight distinct components to every match—type transformation, STAB amplification, defensive shifts, and more—and each of these interacts with abilities, items, and team building in ways Hidden Power never did. It’s not just one factor to consider but an entire cascade of variance.
Open Tera doesn’t solve every matchup problem, but it gives players the information to craft in-game strategies around known Tera types. It doesn’t remove the challenge of preparation but shifts the execution phase away from blind guessing. Knowing Kingambit is Ghost Tera lets me adapt my gameplay in real-time instead of being blindsided by Flying, Fairy, or Water Tera and losing despite solid prep.
The frustration comes from how variance spills over into matches, not just the builder. Open Tera mitigates that without sacrificing the creativity and depth Tera brings to the table. It’s a step forward that balances strategy with fairness.
No one claims it's a perfect metagame or that there can't be improvement (fuck Kyurem), but to suggest there's been little to show for it when multiple brokens like Bloodmoon, Archaludon, Volcarona and Gouging Fire were ousted, to say nothing of the MANY quickbans used to remove brokens that were everywhere.
I don't know why you're bringing up hidden power...?
Having the information that Gambit is Ghost or Fairy or Fire or Water or Flying Tera doesn't do anything for the fact that you still might not have been able to prep for those sets because it's just not realistically possible to prep for them all while also prepping for everything else in the tier. There's just not a lot that you can reasonably do if you are up against a Gambit Tera you're weak to. Problems aren't coming from needing to blind guess. Especially because if you've played enough and have enough experience in the tier, you CAN make educated inferences on what a mon's Tera is. Not always, but well enough. That in its own right is a skill and honestly putting a thing like Open Tera/Tera Preview would take away from that element for non broken pokemon and take away some of the skill involved in discerning those details.
Also I'll say this. If Body Press Corv was your only answer to Gambit, then that's on you, especially if you know that it commonly runs Tera Ghost, you should be running another check to account for that. Yes, it's stupid that Gambit abuses various Tera types to force all this scattered counterplay that can't always work on the same team causing problems, but we could always do something about Gambit (and I wouldn't be opposed because frankly I've gotten kinda tired of its nonsense).
is the best 
check btw just saying. Knock, Wisp, Parting Shot, Fire/Dark which naturally walls...Man I wish
was Steel/Fighting irl...
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Man I wish
The single best one is Restalk Paldean Tauros (both Water and Fire), followed by Poliwrath, Keldeo, Infernape and Blaziken. Incineroar has the problem of being weak to Low Kick. None of these Mons (yes, I include the very overhyped Keldeo) is easy to fit on teams, so most of the time you have to use a combination of Zamazenta, Tusk, Valiant, Lando, Moltres or Hisuian Samurott and try to force the Tera of another Mon so that Gambit doesn,t have it available.
I have been using Cobrolion for a solid Gambit check. It is also the Zamazenta at home for me.
Is 252 speed Gambit still a thing? What is it trying to outrun or was it always about winning the speed tie in the Ditto? It seems like anything it wants to outrun can just invest in a few speed evs to outrun it
Open team sheets do show tera types. They show everything except natures and EVs/IVs.
Max speed is still very common on offense, yes. Like you said it's mostly for winning the speed tie as well as outspeeding corv, who can't really invest in speed without cutting into too much of it's bulk. It also just generally helps against defensive mons and the various niche mons around that speed tier like iron hands and scizor. As soon as you greedily invest into gambit's bulk you'll be outsped by something stupid like max speed hydrapple and immediately go back to 252.
I just feel you lose too much bulk on a gamble.
I feel it goes both ways. I've had situations where I definitely needed the speed (Cosmic Power Clef) and Situations where I'd rather have the bulk (Wogerpon).
it does, and most draft battles have open tera implemented already
i don't like the option of tera preview very much—if we're taking action against tera, we might as well just kill the whole mechanic at once—but i think we do have to at least acknowledge the fact that tera seems to have been designed around a format where both players know all the tera types beforehand. this may not be worth much because of the designers being... well, game freak... but it's at least something we should keep in mind as we discuss the mechanic and its place in competitive
I used to like preview as an idea when the first suspect happened, but I've come to more agree with the side against it. As was explained in good detail on the last page, I think seeing each mon's Tera reveals a bit too much to the player with any knowledge of metagame trends. I won't repeat the Val or Kingambit examples, but another which comes to mind is Gliscor. With preview, you'd pretty much know the second its sent out whether its an offensive or defensive variant of the mon, as well as have a good idea of its moveset. You can intuit some of these things based on team composition, but that is a skill in of itself when making measured plays, weighing what sets your opponent is most likely to have and what could be a risky play on the opponent's part but blows you up. Tera preview, for a number of mons, gives you a very good idea of the moveset, and even potentially item, of your opponent without them even so much as making a play.
Could that be a good thing though?
I kind of like that Gholdengos and Corviknights have to be a little afraid of a Great Tusk temper flare. It isn't common, but it's enough that the fear is there. If you can already see that a Great Tusk isn't tera fire, you already know you don't need to worry about temper flare. I'm sure there are a million more examples.
I am still of the opinion that a Tera Blast ban is the best way to deal with Tera alongside getting rid of Gambit and Dengo as we should have done at the start of this gen. Gambit and Dengo have both been plagues since the start that should have been kicked then but both have somehow continued to dodge action.
Despite being one of the ugliest Pokemon ever made, Gholdengo is an important part of the metagame and is common for a good reason, it stops Roosters from being too common and gaining too many opportunities to Defog, while Air Balloon variants help to neuter Great Tusk and Gliscuck. Anyone who wants to ban it is either deliberately trying to make the meta game fatter and less fun, or just simply big mad. I have never used Gholdengo, btw.
Tera Preview in my opinion will not really create any positive change, at least on a higher level.
The thing about Tera that I believe people don't appreciate enough is the fact that you can discern a Pokemon's Tera type (or the role of their Tera type) by observing team composition, how a Pokemon is played, and knowing what Tera types mesh the best with a Pokemon given usage stats and their game plan. In fact, that is a very real and valuable skill that adds a layer of depth to this tier, and more importantly, demonstrates that Tera is not this pure, unpredictable evil.
Tera Preview's primary appeal is to remove the potentially volatile element of Tera type evaluation, which may improve the mechanic on paper, but in practice you will wind up with situations where you're either trying to get the Tera turn right (if you don't have Substitute or Encore that is) against Pokemon you typically would save the Tera type for, or to use Tera purely for tempo. In a way, this reminds me of the Kingambit dilemma in terms of its impact on the offensive landscape, and how it dilutes the skills around how people use the resource. Tera Preview makes random Tera Blast snipes less reliable, but in its place, brings similarly uncompetitive situations with defensive Tera typings that encourages using Tera in a more linear way, which removes a lot of nuance around Tera.
Tera Preview not only doesn't do anything that you can't do with good intuition but probably just damages Tera's positive dynamics in practice. I would rather just target Tera Blast if uncompetitiveness/unhealthiness is the perceived problem with Tera.
The thing about Tera that I believe people don't appreciate enough is the fact that you can discern a Pokemon's Tera type (or the role of their Tera type) by observing team composition, how a Pokemon is played, and knowing what Tera types mesh the best with a Pokemon given usage stats and their game plan. In fact, that is a very real and valuable skill that adds a layer of depth to this tier, and more importantly, demonstrates that Tera is not this pure, unpredictable evil.
Tera Preview's primary appeal is to remove the potentially volatile element of Tera type evaluation, which may improve the mechanic on paper, but in practice you will wind up with situations where you're either trying to get the Tera turn right (if you don't have Substitute or Encore that is) against Pokemon you typically would save the Tera type for, or to use Tera purely for tempo. In a way, this reminds me of the Kingambit dilemma in terms of its impact on the offensive landscape, and how it dilutes the skills around how people use the resource. Tera Preview makes random Tera Blast snipes less reliable, but in its place, brings similarly uncompetitive situations with defensive Tera typings that encourages using Tera in a more linear way, which removes a lot of nuance around Tera.
Tera Preview not only doesn't do anything that you can't do with good intuition but probably just damages Tera's positive dynamics in practice. I would rather just target Tera Blast if uncompetitiveness/unhealthiness is the perceived problem with Tera.
My biggest problem with tera preview is that it just doesn't make sense as action. If a Pokemon, Item, Ability, or Move is broken / uncompetitive you ban it, if something isn't broken / uncompetitive you do nothing about it. There is no reason why Tera shouldn't be treated the same way, either do nothing or remove the entire mechanic.
Tera Blast ban is the only restriction that should ever be seriously discussed because its not a restriction on Tera in the same way banning Regieleki isn't a restriction on Tera Blast, its just a simple move ban.
Tera Blast ban is the only restriction that should ever be seriously discussed because its not a restriction on Tera in the same way banning Regieleki isn't a restriction on Tera Blast, its just a simple move ban.
Banning Tera Blast would cause a ripple effect on lower tiers where the move probably isn't a concern. Y'all have to keep that in mind. It would affect the viability of some Pokémon who're desperate for coverage. I wonder when the survey is dropping.