He wants to free Gouging Fire, lol, which was an INSANELY broken mon. I don't know about how he feels about the rest of the tier though.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
He wants to free Gouging Fire, lol, which was an INSANELY broken mon. I don't know about how he feels about the rest of the tier though.
Technically if there is enough support, a Pokemon can be suspected as many times as possible. Usually it's once or twice, but natdex for example suspected tera three times before it was banned.
Although I disagree with a Kyurem ban rn (tera blast and waterpon I think would free up the tier a lot), it is still possible and shouldn't be discounted.
I'm curious why you disagree with a Kyurem ban? For me I am of the opinion of tiering action on whatever comes next as any action is helpful to limiting the threat saturation the tier has, but I don't see how banning Kyurem or Ogerpon-w or Tblast all don't contribute to the same end goal
It's an age-old refrain at this point, I know, but I'd like to bring up the benefits of banning Terastallization in SV OU.
The Problem
As many have said (if you scroll up on this very page, you'll see a great post by Shaymin Sky regarding this), SV OU has major issues. It's clear that we as a community can't agree on what the issue is, so I'd like to raise an option that, while not a panacea, solves many of the problems regarding the metagame - banning Terastallization.
What Does Banning Tera Do?
It's a big leap, but I think it's one that we can stick the landing of. Banning Tera would help balance out the metagame in numerous ways - let's list them below.
Wellspring may be the biggest casualty - it now becomes far less of a plague for Balance teams since it cannot as-effortlessly smash through them with Tera Water Ivy Cudgels (potentially even boosted), while lessening the burden on offense against a 1.5x SpDef Wellspring going for the win or simply nuking an offensive threat. Indeed, this fall in Wellspring's viability indirectly helps stall - it no longer has to worry as much about a top metagame setup threat that beats Dondozo.
SubRoost Kyurem now is saddled with a much worse typing, making it easier to deal with on the whole, while Specs Kyurem now lacks that extra oomph it needs to blast past its few checks like Glowking and defensive Gholdengo and Dragon Dance Kyurem loses one of its biggest tools to deal with Steel-types and Alomomola in Tera Blast. This should help Balance mainly.
Ting-Lu loves its typing, but not being able to Terastallize out of its few answers and potentially even block Rapid Spin from the likes of Treads and Tusk would make it more manageable for Balance in the long run. It would also make it less of a catch-all check, which is an issue for it.
Gholdengo would become more manageable as well considering it is now easily beatable in some way, shape, or form by most teamstyles - granted, Stall will struggle with it (particularly Psyshock variants), but balance loves its Tusk being able to beat it while offense and HO appreciate their Dark-types overwhelming it.
Many more threats will be significantly hindered by a Tera ban and we could see some metagame-shifting unbans, but the point of this post is to give a small primer on what major meta threats will be weakened by this ban.
Numerous times in politics have we seen candidates promise a panacea for all of a country's problems and have voters flock to their side despite being an objectively bad person (the past US elections ring a bell, anyone?) - I'll admit this solution is not a catch-all one; there will inevitably be gaps in this metagame, but I think it would put us in a far better state than
I'll do a full writeup later (work to do and it's 9:30 PM), but these are purely the benefits of a Terastallization ban. While I don't foresee it ever happening, I think it would be overall beneficial to the metagame.
The Problem
As many have said (if you scroll up on this very page, you'll see a great post by Shaymin Sky regarding this), SV OU has major issues. It's clear that we as a community can't agree on what the issue is, so I'd like to raise an option that, while not a panacea, solves many of the problems regarding the metagame - banning Terastallization.
What Does Banning Tera Do?
It's a big leap, but I think it's one that we can stick the landing of. Banning Tera would help balance out the metagame in numerous ways - let's list them below.
Wellspring may be the biggest casualty - it now becomes far less of a plague for Balance teams since it cannot as-effortlessly smash through them with Tera Water Ivy Cudgels (potentially even boosted), while lessening the burden on offense against a 1.5x SpDef Wellspring going for the win or simply nuking an offensive threat. Indeed, this fall in Wellspring's viability indirectly helps stall - it no longer has to worry as much about a top metagame setup threat that beats Dondozo. SubRoost Kyurem now is saddled with a much worse typing, making it easier to deal with on the whole, while Specs Kyurem now lacks that extra oomph it needs to blast past its few checks like Glowking and defensive Gholdengo and Dragon Dance Kyurem loses one of its biggest tools to deal with Steel-types and Alomomola in Tera Blast. This should help Balance mainly. Ting-Lu loves its typing, but not being able to Terastallize out of its few answers and potentially even block Rapid Spin from the likes of Treads and Tusk would make it more manageable for Balance in the long run. It would also make it less of a catch-all check, which is an issue for it. Gholdengo would become more manageable as well considering it is now easily beatable in some way, shape, or form by most teamstyles - granted, Stall will struggle with it (particularly Psyshock variants), but balance loves its Tusk being able to beat it while offense and HO appreciate their Dark-types overwhelming it.Many more threats will be significantly hindered by a Tera ban and we could see some metagame-shifting unbans, but the point of this post is to give a small primer on what major meta threats will be weakened by this ban.
Numerous times in politics have we seen candidates promise a panacea for all of a country's problems and have voters flock to their side despite being an objectively bad person (the past US elections ring a bell, anyone?) - I'll admit this solution is not a catch-all one; there will inevitably be gaps in this metagame, but I think it would put us in a far better state than
I'll do a full writeup later (work to do and it's 9:30 PM), but these are purely the benefits of a Terastallization ban. While I don't foresee it ever happening, I think it would be overall beneficial to the metagame.
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I have been reading this thread and I have to agree with you all, I guess in my previous post I was wrong, SV ou is at a crossroad but it wasn't what I thought it was.
I think at this point to fix this tier you'd need to ban 12 mons, just thinking about a tier without Gambit, Zamazenta, Raging Bolt, Iron Valiant, Kyurem, Ogerpon, Gholdengo etc, Is a dream, which I would like to see fulfilled (or ban Tera, but we all know it's not gonna happen, I wish it would tho, it would fix most problems of this tier, and it would be way easier to implement)
The problem is that even this is quite hard to make happen, and it would need extensive support, and I don't know if it has said support. Another problem would be checking if the meta would end up the same as before with super high saturation and set variance, but with uu mons, I doubt it, but it could happen. At the end of the day banning Kyurem is the easiest thing we can do, and it would definitely make the tier better, but it also probably wouldn't be enough because the tier would still fundamentally be the same.
I think at this point to fix this tier you'd need to ban 12 mons, just thinking about a tier without Gambit, Zamazenta, Raging Bolt, Iron Valiant, Kyurem, Ogerpon, Gholdengo etc, Is a dream, which I would like to see fulfilled (or ban Tera, but we all know it's not gonna happen, I wish it would tho, it would fix most problems of this tier, and it would be way easier to implement)
The problem is that even this is quite hard to make happen, and it would need extensive support, and I don't know if it has said support. Another problem would be checking if the meta would end up the same as before with super high saturation and set variance, but with uu mons, I doubt it, but it could happen. At the end of the day banning Kyurem is the easiest thing we can do, and it would definitely make the tier better, but it also probably wouldn't be enough because the tier would still fundamentally be the same.
The only other thing I can think of is a wellspring ban, but considering kyurem scored higher on the survey I think its fair to test that first
Idk exactly. Don't get me wrong, if kyurem is suspected I would at the very least try to get reqs to vote ban (I probably should have said a kyurem suspect instead of kyurem ban, that's my b). For tera blast specifically, it means multiple Pokemon that utilise it that aren't really broken get nerfed, and thus helps reduce threat saturation because they cannot suddenly gain a new coverage move. For waterpon, I think it is one of the most constraining mons in the tier, potentially even more constraining then gambit, as it forces at least 2 checks (nothing besides amoonguss really counters it), and multiple teras for defensive teams. With wellspring out of the picture, this means defensive teams are freed up a lot and can dedicate there resources to other threats in the meta.
I think honestly it might just be my priority list on threats which is why I value a waterpon or tera blast suspect over a kyurem suspect.
I argued against a quick retest of Kyurem in Policy Review, and I'm one of the reliable soldiers in favor of removing Tera Blast (which would help with threat saturation!), and even I concede that a third Kyurem suspect would be justified by the survey. The only other option is Wellspring, which saw action support decrease as qualifications increased, meaning there's little reason to expect a suspect would succeed.
RE: Mass bans, please, if you want to ban literally a third of OU, then UU is right there waiting for you to give it a chance. It even has a bunch of old OU stalwarts for the nostalgia.
I love the level of detail and dedication you went into this post, but I do disagree with a couple of things. For example.
I don’t consider SV that much top heavy compared to SM or ORAS. There’s alot of creative niche options in the tier that have popped off in high ladder/tournament play.
Really love these guys in particular rn. Latios was used 4 times with an impressive 75% winrate in week 1 of SPL. Just an underrated wallbreaker with incredible defensive utility via Tera Steel + Recover. Lokix goes crazy in Ting-Lu meta. You see it on several Voltturn structures and might honestly be OU via usage in the future despite its SR weakness. Strong into offensive teams and even fatter ones too with CB Tera Bug Leech Life.
Not a fan of this meta rn, but I think the matchup saturation issue is a bit over-exaggerated here and the problem can be pinned down to a few suspects. Stuff Kyurem and Wogre require so much attention in the builder that accounting for the other shit becomes a hassle. Teams don’t need a direct answer to everything, cause otherwise ppl would just use that team and nothing else. However, teams should have some kind of gameplan vs the big threats, whether its careful pivoting or out-offensing them. This becomes difficult when you have teams outright designed to fish a specific style or mon like bulky Tera Blast Fairy Moon builds or DD Tera Fire Kyurem making most of Kyurem’s counterplay obsolete. (Honestly you can pinpoint 70% of the issues with the meta to Tera Blast, without Tera Blast, DD Kyurem would be much less of a problem).
Most of the threats you brought up are honestly perfectly fine in the tier. They’re reasonable enough to account for in the builder. As an example, Ting-Lu alone blanket checks like 40% of the mons here, and that is without Tera, allowing it to check even more things like Primarina.
I feel SV OU has a different metric of what’s broken compared to Gen 8. The best we can do as a community besides partake in suspect tests and surveys is to accept that SV OU will not be a Balance-centric tier, its just simply not the nature of the meta. There are a few good Balance structures here and there, but a majority of the consistent teams are BO/HO with some mu fishing webs/stall/weather thrown in the mix.
Its a tier that prioritizes calculated aggression and there’s nothing wrong with that imo, but it’d like the builder to be more flexible without needing to worry about getting 6-0d by Kyurem or Toxic stalled by Gliscor.
Pecharunt rode up to my bedside. As it clambered through my window, I heard its toxins dripping, echoing through the mighty palace where Kyurem had shown its valiance in defeating ZapKingLu, the trio of destruction, mere months ago. As it approached the chamber, I grew alarmed. A mighty alarum was heard throughout the castle from a Rillaboom's drumbeat. At this, my loyal Zamazenta went to explore the upper chambers and saw a most frightening sight - the Pecharunt had arrived to my antechamber! Zamazenta attempted to Crunch it to get it to stop, but it simply set a poison curse upon my poor loyal Zama and Recovered off all the damage it had taken. "One man down!" I heard a yell, a deep voice like the Dragonite that had once guided me from the rocks miles offshore to salvation. Just that instant, I saw the Dragonite outside my window! But it was here not to deliver me peace, but rather turmoil - it smashed my window, startling my Ogerpon-Cornerstone. I did not see the fight fully, but a crystal formation on that Dragonite's head betrayed it as having used Tera Ground and killed my poor Stonerpon. Finally, I stood, approaching the Pecharunt in the antechamber, with the Dragonite rapidly approaching. But at last, I heard it. The footsteps of an urn which I had long sought to erase from my mind. "I thought it was dead!" I yelped as the shuddering noise rapidly moved towards me. But as the Ting-Lu walked up to where I stood, frozen, the trio pulled out daggers. When all was lost, my glorious prince Kyurem arrived. The Ting-Lu was the first to attempt to kill it, yet it stood broken by an Ice Beam. The Tera Ground Dragonite took a stab, but it too was felled by a Freeze-Dry. Finally, the Pecharunt attempted to cast another poison curse, but was shattered by an Earth Power before it could even move. Kyurem flew off yet again, but I knew I had just witnessed the bravery that had plagued the OU metagame for generations on end.
Honestly to that I would say just expanding the tiers you're playing helps a lot, even looking into some petmods.
It helps with keeping stagnation for a given metagame low and keeps the mind fresh, I hope this helps.
Thank you for this!
Yeah, I can't in good faith call this meta extremely top-heavy given that a lot of random lower tier shit can be effective. The newer generations of mons just have a lot of tools to make these lower tiers work well between Tera, Boots + a bunch of high tier partners like Raging Bolt, Gambit, Gking, or Corv to fall back on for support. I was using JackRG's Entei team earlier, and that's an example of one unique mon with the traits to find a niche between tera normal E-Speed, Sacred Fire, Inner Focus for Lando-T, and the 100 Speed tier. There have been a lot of other interesting lower tier mons that work well as well, like Fezandipti, Quaquaval, Hisuian Goodra, Chesnaught, etc. and I feel like a good chunk of options still haven't been fully explored like Chandelure, Vikavolt, Tauros-P, Slowbro, Salamence, Typhlosion-Hisui and Gyarados to name a few. Most of the defensive cores in this tier have clear weaknesses a lot of low tier mons can capitalize on, with the offensive mons having similar limitations (i.e Kyurem / Gambit's medicore speed tier, Ogerpon's hazard vulnerability, and Zamazenta's proneness to getting walled + reliance on contact moves.
pecharunt rising from UU shitter to OU staple with calls to ban it in like a few months is CRAZY. bro went from B tier to A/A+ worthy along with ting-lu, zama, gholdengo, tusk, and dnite. the GOAT.
also there are a ton of niche options in OU yall cant say it's top-heavy come ON yall are better than those arguments
join stallcord o7 bye
obviously niche options are still viable, but it feels like a lot harder to use them in gen 9 compared to oras and sm, so while I don't believe its completely top heavy I feel that argument has a basis in truth
rillaboom is probably the worst it's ever been in sv ou right now and i wouldn't be surprised if it fell down to uu lol
when RainebowValiant says bye for real for the 40th time this week
survey results aren't that surprising but do give a pretty grim picture of the future of current gen SV OU. Pecharunt receiving qualified mentions is very funny though, Malignant Chain procs may have stolen a few too many games...
survey results aren't that surprising but do give a pretty grim picture of the future of current gen SV OU. Pecharunt receiving qualified mentions is very funny though, Malignant Chain procs may have stolen a few too many games...
January 2025 SV OU tiering survey thoughts
I want to give insight from a qualified user's perspective on how I feel about the metagame. I will put a disclaimer that I do not ladder much and mostly play in tournaments, so my input will be more biased toward the tournament side of the metagame.
My votes
Enjoyment (7)
Competitiveness (7)
I have at least somewhat enjoyed SV OU since the ban of Shed Tail, and my interest in the metagame comes in waves that are usually unrelated to the tier itself and often how busy I am irl or if I am involved in an SV OU tournament, so I do not have a lot to say here. I get a lot of my enjoyment from teambuilding, and the metagame always feels fresh to build. From a competitive standpoint, I think it has been slowly but steadily improving as the meta stabilizes while discoveries continue to push the metagame forward. My only competitive "complaint" is how Pokemon that are objectively bad like Hisuian Sneasel, Torterra, Probopass, etc. can peak ladder. It's one thing to have varied success in 1700s, but seeing these Pokemon reach the top of the ladder tells me that either the metagame is more matchup-dependent than I've experienced or ladder heroes are trash. I give credit to people who can use these Pokemon to great success, and it definitely contributes to the enjoyment of the metagame.
(3)
Kyurem is the most divisive aspect of the tier. It is difficult to scout the set as your team can fall apart quickly if you guess wrong. Kyurem has many sets that are viable and require different counterplay. Freeze-Dry + Earth Power is a lethal combo that hits the entire relevant metagame neutrally, requiring sturdy checks on bulkier teams or one-time checks on offense. Dragon Dance has several sets and requires much different counterplay from special sets. Mixed sets are difficult in some matchups too. Kyurem can run many items: Choice Specs, Choice Scarf, Leftovers, Heavy-Duty Boots, Loaded Dice, and Never-Melt Ice are the only items I have seen, but there is room for innovation as the metagame stables and people experiment more, such as Sitrus Berry, resist berries, and Life Orb. Similarly, its EVs are so good across the board that there are plenty of ways to invest EVs to live hits and still hit hard enough. Its Tera type is somewhat varied, but not much more than other Pokemon. All these attributes make Kyurem a double-edged sword; it can be put on a variety of teams and is the premier Ice-type of the tier, but its potency in many roles makes it oppressive and difficult to build and play around. Seeing the average score of at least 3.5 across all three pools of voters shows that players tend to find Kyurem to be a net negative on the tier, and I would agree, especially as it will continue to adapt to its counterplay.
(3)
Ogerpon is another big threat in the tier. It is more limited in what it can do, but it is easier to slap on a team than Kyurem and is arguably more damaging to metagame diversity. Ogerpon is similar to Kyurem in that it is a balance breaker, and Ogerpon is one of the premier stall breakers as well. While Ogerpon can only run the Wellspring Mask and Tera Water, this does not limit it at all; a 1.2x boosting item with no drawbacks is amazing, Tera Water is great offensively to boost Ivy Cudgel and defensively to become a pure Water-type, and the Embody Aspect special defense boost is very helpful to live hits in a pinch. Ivy Cudgel is the only mandatory move on Ogerpon, as it is 100 BP with 100% accuracy, no contact, a high crit chance, and is boosted by its required tera. One crit can lose the opponent the game, and considering how spammable Ivy Cudgel is and its 1/8 crit chance, it can roll the dice until it finally breaks through. Due to Ogerpon's coverage, there is not a single Pokemon that can check every set. Luckily, Ogerpon has to pick and choose what it can beat; its relevant attack options are Power Whip / Horn Leech for Water-types, Play Rough for Dragon-types, Knock Off for Sinistcha and general item removal, and U-turn for Grass-types and fast pivoting. Ogerpon also has great utility options in Swords Dance, Encore, and Synthesis. There are some niche moves it can run like Grassy Glide, Spiky Shield, Spikes, Taunt, etc. to varied success. 350 Speed is perfect, and I consider it the line between fast and mid speed this generation. Water Absorb is a surprisingly great ability, as it completely neutralizes rain as well as deter the opponent from using Water attacks. Its mediocre bulk paired with its hazard weakness is what keeps the oger in check, as it requires strong removal to last during a game and not fall apart. Its STABs being resisted by Dragons is also huge and something that not too many people talk about, as strong Dragons dominate the metagame, with Raging Bolt and Kyurem being quite resilient into attacks barring +2 Play Rough. Also, bulkier teams can easily throw on a tera Dragon/Grass defensive Pokemon for Ogerpon, though having to use tera is not ideal. It is the premier Water attacker of the tier and helps in the builder a lot on a variety of teams, but it is oppressive for teams that are not HO, Offense, or BO, making it a divisive presence in the metagame. The survey shows it in the 3.1 to 3.42 range, which I agree with as it is not as versatile and difficult to handle all sets as Kyurem is in practice, but it is more limiting from a building perspective.
Tera Blast (3)
Tera Blast is the biggest shift for me personally. I have been very pro-tera throughout the generation, including Tera Blast because it never felt that difficult to handle and increased metagame diversity. Only in the past couple of months have I changed my perspective. Dragonite is the best abuser of Tera Blast in my opinion, as it can completely obliterate would-be checks with Tera Blast Flying or Tera Blast Fairy, both of which are pretty easy to throw onto a team. I have had great success in tournaments recently with Dragonite, and Tera Blast is not too difficult to put on a team but very hard to prepare for and play around. Tera Fairy Kingambit with Tera Blast is a more popular example, and it gives Kingambit coverage that it should not have. The variance Tera Blast adds is absurd, and the commitment is less in practice than I personally felt, especially on fast-paced offenses where losing one moveslot for a matchup fish is not a big drawback. I believe it is a healthy dynamic for Pokemon to have reliable checks. Zamazenta should not have to worry about switching in on Dragonite. Galarian Slowking should not have to worry about switching in on Iron Moth. Tera as a whole somewhat encourages this dynamic, but Tera Blast especially does. I put it only as 3 because few Pokemon make good use of the option and it is a drawback if you do not use tera on the Pokemon, but the Pokemon that use Tera Blast will go from strong, healthy presences in the tier to borderline broken. I am not the only one with this sentiment, as the average vote outcome ranged from 2.77 to 3.07. Tera Blast is less frequent than Kyurem and Ogerpon, but it is more uncompetitive, so I thought a score of 3 to match the others was pretty fair.
(1)
I do not find any of these Pokemon banworthy at the moment.
Raging Bolt is a borderline 2 for me, as it is absurdly strong with amazing STAB attacks, sturdy defensive stats, and enough speed to be its own benchmark in the metagame. I am glad that Palafin stayed banned because Raging Bolt felt like a 3 or 4 in that metagame. In my experience, Raging Bolt only feels overwhelming when it uses tera because of its superb bulk tanking neutral hits with ease, but it almost always uses a defensive tera, which is much more manageable than an offensive one as seen with my other higher-rated threats. Its poor speed also means that if it does tera to pick up a kill, it is pretty easy to revenge kill. Its STAB combination is strong, and its moves are potent after a Calm Mind, but it rarely uses non-STAB attacks, making counterplay very manageable. Ground types completely wall Thunderclap, and almost every good team should have a Ground type. During OUPL, I came up with an optimized Great Tusk set of 104 HP / 140 Atk / 12 SpD / 252+ Spe, and this allows Great Tusk to always live a Booster Energy Dragon Pulse from Raging Bolt and always OHKO back with Headlong Rush. Pair this with Heavy-Duty Boots, and you force Raging Bolt to switch and lose its Booster Energy, waste tera to live your hit, or faint. A slow specially defensive pivot (e.g. Galarian Slowking) can come in on any move Raging Bolt uses and pivot out the next turn to the faster Ground type. Ting-Lu is amazing in general, and if it is healthy, Raging Bolt cannot break through. Even if your Ground-type fainted, you can outplay Thunderclap, and it will struggle to OHKO many Pokemon without a Calm Mind boost. Counterplay also overlaps with Ogerpon, as a Grass or Dragon tera that outspeeds Raging Bolt can be very effective at stopping it in its tracks. Conversely, Raging Bolt is the premier Electric type of the tier and offers the tier strong priority against offense, bulky Calm Mind setup, and good breaking potential. The main reason I have it at the top of the 1's is that it is a little too good at its job and dominates usage, which is a little concerning for an Electric type that has to deal with many strong Ground types. The average votes were 2.13 to 2.39, which I consider a tad too high but understand.
Kingambit is above Gliscor only because its ability to sweep at the end of a game against all odds is unmatched across generations. Sucker Punch and Swords Dance are required to bring Kingambit to its full potential, and the other moves are usually two of Kowtow Cleave, Iron Head, Low Kick, and Tera Blast. Despite this always being the case, Kingambit continues to adapt to the metagame with its EVs, items, and teras. It is true that the right tera, item, and/or combination of moves on Kingambit can turn a very favorable match into a loss, but that can be said for a lot of Pokemon. Also, Kingambit's damage output is pretty bad early in the game, meaning it only becomes threatening when you are already down some Pokemon, which is fine if you are trading kills, but sometimes you want to preserve sacks which limits Kingambit. I mention this because Kingambit is really great defensively; it is the only Pokemon that resists both of Dragapult's STABs, and it is one of two Pokemon that resists Gholdengo's STABs. 100 / 120 / 85 bulk is really nice, and HP-invested EV spreads can live many attacks. As difficult as late-game Kingambit is, its role compression is undeniable, and if you play the game well with a good team, you will always have a way to handle a late-game Kingambit. Also, a knowledgeable player will generally know what tera the Kingambit is based on the opposing team's needs, its item, its EV spread, and how it is played. While Tera Blast Fairy is a little bit trickier to play around, those sets almost always run Kowtow Cleave, meaning it only has Dark attacks before tera, making it easy to handle with any Fighting-, Fairy-, or Dark-type. Outside of its occasional reverse sweeps, Kingambit is a very healthy presence in the metagame. The 2.65 to 2.82 average is excessive hating on the king.
Gliscor has had its waves of being too much for the metagame to handle, and if Kyurem and/or Ogerpon is banned, that will likely be the case again. As it currently stands, Gliscor is obnoxious but manageable. The two sets that Gliscor mostly runs are Swords Dance and Spikes. The best SD Gliscor team to date is still CTC's team with Sinistcha and Keldeo; Swords Dance Gliscor is most effective with hazard stack support, meaning you likely need to run Ting-Lu and have two Ground-types or Hisuian Samurott and be more frail, and you definitely cannot afford to have a Great Tusk for hazard removal as Ogerpon and any half-decent Water- or Grass-type will farm the team. So you are pretty restricted in how you optimally build an SD Gliscor team, and the aforementioned team was made during the Kyurem ban as the matchup is pretty terrible if you don't get hazards up quickly. Due to the team's success, the metagame evolved to handle it more effectively; for example, offensive Zamazenta runs Close Combat and Ice Fang to kill Gliscor in its base form and as Tera Normal. SD Gliscor also needs to decide if it runs Earthquake or Facade, both of which are fairly manageable to handle defensively for many teams once you know the coverage. Spikes Gliscor fits on more teams and provides great role compression, much like Landorus. The only part that I understand people find uncompetitive is how difficult it is to chip down since it seemingly heals it all off with a few switches and Protects. SD Gliscor is very oppressive for fat teams as it forces Knock Off on Pokemon like Dondozo and ignores chip damage, and I can sympathize with that. However, SD Gliscor is one of many threats to stall, with Ogerpon being nearly as potent while also having immediate power and great speed. Also, its ease of healing is overstated, as Stealth Rock makes chipping it down quite easy, and your team will (or at least should) always have a way to hit Gliscor hard and keep it low or dead. Unlike anything else on this list, Gliscor has a relevant counter to all its sets in Iron Defense Corviknight. Gliscor is annoying, but definitely not 2.71 to 2.85 level banworthy.
In my experience, Zamazenta feels the most manageable on this list and offers the most for the metagame. Iron Defense Zamazenta is a great anti-offense Pokemon that doubles as a sweeper. Offensive sets are really fast and hit just hard enough to be threatening but not too hard to be banworthy (base 120 Attack is weak these days). With Dauntless Shield and its pure Fighting type, Zamazenta keeps so many Pokemon in check; in this list alone, it checks Kyurem, Ogerpon, and Kingambit, and it is amazing against all the strong Dark-types in the tier. The speed is phenomenal, as defensive sets are still able to outspeed +1 Adamant Dragonite, Darkrai, and other fast Pokemon, filling a unique roll for a tier that is so offensive. 92 / 115 / 115 bulk is really solid even on all-out attacking sets, and Dauntless Shield is a really great emergency check when needed. ID Zamazenta is the more oppressive set of the two, but this set struggles heavily into many Ghost-types. With no Pursuit, the spammable move Shadow Ball into a metagame with Blissey as the only Normal type, and Rapid Spin being the primary form of hazard removal, this is not a big ask at all. Dragapult outspeeds and can burn it, bulky Gholdengo is usually able to 1v1 if the opponent isn't lucky with Crunch defense drops, the rise of Pecharunt has really been problematic for Zamazenta, and there are other less used Ghosts like Sinistcha and Skeledirge that are difficult too. You do not even need a Ghost resist to handle Zamazenta; Rocky Helmet Landorus with Earth Power chips it down, the Kantonian birds require Stone Edge to beat on offensive sets or Tera Electric/Fire on defensive sets, all of the Fairies handle Zamazenta quite well, and the list goes on. That's not even to say how a random Tera Ghost, which is good in general to block Extreme Speed from Dragonite and Rapid Spin from Great Tusk, can completely stop Zamazenta in its tracks. Zamazenta has plenty of counterplay and is very healthy for the metagame, and I do not know how it was voted as 2.39 to 2.67 when Raging Bolt has less counterplay and offers less value to the metagame.
Other notes
I found this to be most interesting, as I almost wrote it in as well but decided not to. Ting-Lu is a bit too good at its job, as it can tank the strongest supereffective hits like it's nothing and do something annoying in return. I don't think there is one game that I have felt Ting-Lu has been useless, because it at the very least can scout a set and give me insight into how I should play the game. There is zero risk of running this Pokemon, and there will always be some reward, ranging from scouting a set to stacking hazards to stopping a set-up sweeper to chipping down everything with Ruination and Earthquake... and hazards... and Whirlwind. I used Ting-Lu in 4 of my 8 OUPL games, and it would always do its job of getting hazards up, eating hits with ease, keeping many threats in check, and racking up chip for my teammates. Even when building, I remember trying to make a Greninja team for one of my matches, and one my teammates pointed out that nothing could 2HKO Ting-Lu. I looked, and sure enough, Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump is an unfavorable roll to 2HKO Ting-Lu with Leftovers. That should not even be possible for a Pokemon allowed in OU, but it makes sense that when you take Vessel of Ruin into account, Ting-Lu's bulk is essentially 155 / 125 / 123, making Pokemon like Ferrothorn and Toxapex look like feathers in comparison. The combination of Ruination and Earthquake off its decent 110 attack stat keep it an offensive presence as well, as you cannot use Ting-Lu as setup fodder. The support Ting-Lu provides a team is pretty unmatched, and I am impressed that it got the most amount of write-ins, but it is not an oppressive Pokemon and is not too hard to hit supereffectively and break down due to its lack of healing moves.
I remember Vert raving about Pecharunt and Fezandipiti during World Cup last year. While I had very little faith in Fezandipiti (which still is not entirely wrong), I saw some potential in Pecharunt, but still mostly preferred Sinistcha at the time for a spinblocker and Galarian Slowking as a grounded Poison pivot. To no one's surprise, this is one of many examples of Vert being a visionary, as Pecharunt is doing really well in the current meta. This Pokemon is obnoxious like Gliscor but more manageable as common Steel-types and the aforementioned Ting-Lu are pretty great into Pecharunt. Fast pivoting with Parting Shot, a sky-high defense, solid defensive typing, and the RNG of Malignant Chain's 50% toxic chance and Poison Puppeteer's 33% confusion chance is gross. Fast Pecharunt is really difficult to remove against, and I brought it to OUPL finals and won my game. Pecharunt was able to come in Great Tusk late in the game, take only 64% from Headlong Rush, take out the red health Great Tusk with Hex to keep Stealth Rock up, and force red-health Choice Band Roaring Moon to lock into Knock Off to take me out and get picked off by a Dragonite Extreme Speed. I would not have brought Pecharunt if I did not think it was a strong Pokemon, and even though all the Pokemon on my opponent's team could easily 2-shot me, Pecharunt still managed to be quite useful. While it is annoying to deal with, the metagame needs more time to develop around its presence before I can say it is uncompetitive.
Nobody wrote Dragonite in, which makes sense as Tera Blast was asked about in the survey, but I want to shed more light on how difficult Dragon Dance Dragonite is to handle since all the sets require mostly different counterplay. Loaded Dice Dragonite feels the most manageable of the sets, as Fire Punch is weak without tera or several boosts, and the Tera Fire burn immunity does not come into play often, but Scale Shot is a strong move that can help Dragonite spiral out of control, and Encore is a good support option into Kingambit trying to revenge into Dragonite's defense drops. Tera Normal Extreme Speed with Earthquake and Ice Spinner is probably the most common set and the set that players play around, but the coverage is still not to be understated and can be quite difficult to handle. Tera Ground is another alternative, which boosts the power of Earthquake and stops Thunderclap. Rock Slide or Stone Edge can be tech'd on to handle the Kantonian birds. Tera Blast Fairy + Earthquake is nearly unwallable, and I lost one of my OUPL games because my team, which was pretty well-built for most Dragonite, had zero outs late-game once I was weakened a little bit. The set I believe is strongest currently is Jolly Tera Blast Flying with Earthquake and Rock Slide. When I look through my builder, there is not one team that can handle this Dragonite set at +1 if the team is chipped down a little, except for Corviknight teams. I slept on the dragon for a while, but if Tera Blast remains, I think Dragonite could go beyond its role as a revenge killer into something more unhealthy for the metagame and difficult to handle.
I hope this was insightful to some people! I am excited to see how the metagame develops with SPL and OST.
I want to give insight from a qualified user's perspective on how I feel about the metagame. I will put a disclaimer that I do not ladder much and mostly play in tournaments, so my input will be more biased toward the tournament side of the metagame.
My votes
Enjoyment (7)
Competitiveness (7)
I have at least somewhat enjoyed SV OU since the ban of Shed Tail, and my interest in the metagame comes in waves that are usually unrelated to the tier itself and often how busy I am irl or if I am involved in an SV OU tournament, so I do not have a lot to say here. I get a lot of my enjoyment from teambuilding, and the metagame always feels fresh to build. From a competitive standpoint, I think it has been slowly but steadily improving as the meta stabilizes while discoveries continue to push the metagame forward. My only competitive "complaint" is how Pokemon that are objectively bad like Hisuian Sneasel, Torterra, Probopass, etc. can peak ladder. It's one thing to have varied success in 1700s, but seeing these Pokemon reach the top of the ladder tells me that either the metagame is more matchup-dependent than I've experienced or ladder heroes are trash. I give credit to people who can use these Pokemon to great success, and it definitely contributes to the enjoyment of the metagame.
(3)Kyurem is the most divisive aspect of the tier. It is difficult to scout the set as your team can fall apart quickly if you guess wrong. Kyurem has many sets that are viable and require different counterplay. Freeze-Dry + Earth Power is a lethal combo that hits the entire relevant metagame neutrally, requiring sturdy checks on bulkier teams or one-time checks on offense. Dragon Dance has several sets and requires much different counterplay from special sets. Mixed sets are difficult in some matchups too. Kyurem can run many items: Choice Specs, Choice Scarf, Leftovers, Heavy-Duty Boots, Loaded Dice, and Never-Melt Ice are the only items I have seen, but there is room for innovation as the metagame stables and people experiment more, such as Sitrus Berry, resist berries, and Life Orb. Similarly, its EVs are so good across the board that there are plenty of ways to invest EVs to live hits and still hit hard enough. Its Tera type is somewhat varied, but not much more than other Pokemon. All these attributes make Kyurem a double-edged sword; it can be put on a variety of teams and is the premier Ice-type of the tier, but its potency in many roles makes it oppressive and difficult to build and play around. Seeing the average score of at least 3.5 across all three pools of voters shows that players tend to find Kyurem to be a net negative on the tier, and I would agree, especially as it will continue to adapt to its counterplay.
(3)Ogerpon is another big threat in the tier. It is more limited in what it can do, but it is easier to slap on a team than Kyurem and is arguably more damaging to metagame diversity. Ogerpon is similar to Kyurem in that it is a balance breaker, and Ogerpon is one of the premier stall breakers as well. While Ogerpon can only run the Wellspring Mask and Tera Water, this does not limit it at all; a 1.2x boosting item with no drawbacks is amazing, Tera Water is great offensively to boost Ivy Cudgel and defensively to become a pure Water-type, and the Embody Aspect special defense boost is very helpful to live hits in a pinch. Ivy Cudgel is the only mandatory move on Ogerpon, as it is 100 BP with 100% accuracy, no contact, a high crit chance, and is boosted by its required tera. One crit can lose the opponent the game, and considering how spammable Ivy Cudgel is and its 1/8 crit chance, it can roll the dice until it finally breaks through. Due to Ogerpon's coverage, there is not a single Pokemon that can check every set. Luckily, Ogerpon has to pick and choose what it can beat; its relevant attack options are Power Whip / Horn Leech for Water-types, Play Rough for Dragon-types, Knock Off for Sinistcha and general item removal, and U-turn for Grass-types and fast pivoting. Ogerpon also has great utility options in Swords Dance, Encore, and Synthesis. There are some niche moves it can run like Grassy Glide, Spiky Shield, Spikes, Taunt, etc. to varied success. 350 Speed is perfect, and I consider it the line between fast and mid speed this generation. Water Absorb is a surprisingly great ability, as it completely neutralizes rain as well as deter the opponent from using Water attacks. Its mediocre bulk paired with its hazard weakness is what keeps the oger in check, as it requires strong removal to last during a game and not fall apart. Its STABs being resisted by Dragons is also huge and something that not too many people talk about, as strong Dragons dominate the metagame, with Raging Bolt and Kyurem being quite resilient into attacks barring +2 Play Rough. Also, bulkier teams can easily throw on a tera Dragon/Grass defensive Pokemon for Ogerpon, though having to use tera is not ideal. It is the premier Water attacker of the tier and helps in the builder a lot on a variety of teams, but it is oppressive for teams that are not HO, Offense, or BO, making it a divisive presence in the metagame. The survey shows it in the 3.1 to 3.42 range, which I agree with as it is not as versatile and difficult to handle all sets as Kyurem is in practice, but it is more limiting from a building perspective.
Tera Blast (3)
Tera Blast is the biggest shift for me personally. I have been very pro-tera throughout the generation, including Tera Blast because it never felt that difficult to handle and increased metagame diversity. Only in the past couple of months have I changed my perspective. Dragonite is the best abuser of Tera Blast in my opinion, as it can completely obliterate would-be checks with Tera Blast Flying or Tera Blast Fairy, both of which are pretty easy to throw onto a team. I have had great success in tournaments recently with Dragonite, and Tera Blast is not too difficult to put on a team but very hard to prepare for and play around. Tera Fairy Kingambit with Tera Blast is a more popular example, and it gives Kingambit coverage that it should not have. The variance Tera Blast adds is absurd, and the commitment is less in practice than I personally felt, especially on fast-paced offenses where losing one moveslot for a matchup fish is not a big drawback. I believe it is a healthy dynamic for Pokemon to have reliable checks. Zamazenta should not have to worry about switching in on Dragonite. Galarian Slowking should not have to worry about switching in on Iron Moth. Tera as a whole somewhat encourages this dynamic, but Tera Blast especially does. I put it only as 3 because few Pokemon make good use of the option and it is a drawback if you do not use tera on the Pokemon, but the Pokemon that use Tera Blast will go from strong, healthy presences in the tier to borderline broken. I am not the only one with this sentiment, as the average vote outcome ranged from 2.77 to 3.07. Tera Blast is less frequent than Kyurem and Ogerpon, but it is more uncompetitive, so I thought a score of 3 to match the others was pretty fair.
(1)I do not find any of these Pokemon banworthy at the moment.
Raging Bolt is a borderline 2 for me, as it is absurdly strong with amazing STAB attacks, sturdy defensive stats, and enough speed to be its own benchmark in the metagame. I am glad that Palafin stayed banned because Raging Bolt felt like a 3 or 4 in that metagame. In my experience, Raging Bolt only feels overwhelming when it uses tera because of its superb bulk tanking neutral hits with ease, but it almost always uses a defensive tera, which is much more manageable than an offensive one as seen with my other higher-rated threats. Its poor speed also means that if it does tera to pick up a kill, it is pretty easy to revenge kill. Its STAB combination is strong, and its moves are potent after a Calm Mind, but it rarely uses non-STAB attacks, making counterplay very manageable. Ground types completely wall Thunderclap, and almost every good team should have a Ground type. During OUPL, I came up with an optimized Great Tusk set of 104 HP / 140 Atk / 12 SpD / 252+ Spe, and this allows Great Tusk to always live a Booster Energy Dragon Pulse from Raging Bolt and always OHKO back with Headlong Rush. Pair this with Heavy-Duty Boots, and you force Raging Bolt to switch and lose its Booster Energy, waste tera to live your hit, or faint. A slow specially defensive pivot (e.g. Galarian Slowking) can come in on any move Raging Bolt uses and pivot out the next turn to the faster Ground type. Ting-Lu is amazing in general, and if it is healthy, Raging Bolt cannot break through. Even if your Ground-type fainted, you can outplay Thunderclap, and it will struggle to OHKO many Pokemon without a Calm Mind boost. Counterplay also overlaps with Ogerpon, as a Grass or Dragon tera that outspeeds Raging Bolt can be very effective at stopping it in its tracks. Conversely, Raging Bolt is the premier Electric type of the tier and offers the tier strong priority against offense, bulky Calm Mind setup, and good breaking potential. The main reason I have it at the top of the 1's is that it is a little too good at its job and dominates usage, which is a little concerning for an Electric type that has to deal with many strong Ground types. The average votes were 2.13 to 2.39, which I consider a tad too high but understand. Kingambit is above Gliscor only because its ability to sweep at the end of a game against all odds is unmatched across generations. Sucker Punch and Swords Dance are required to bring Kingambit to its full potential, and the other moves are usually two of Kowtow Cleave, Iron Head, Low Kick, and Tera Blast. Despite this always being the case, Kingambit continues to adapt to the metagame with its EVs, items, and teras. It is true that the right tera, item, and/or combination of moves on Kingambit can turn a very favorable match into a loss, but that can be said for a lot of Pokemon. Also, Kingambit's damage output is pretty bad early in the game, meaning it only becomes threatening when you are already down some Pokemon, which is fine if you are trading kills, but sometimes you want to preserve sacks which limits Kingambit. I mention this because Kingambit is really great defensively; it is the only Pokemon that resists both of Dragapult's STABs, and it is one of two Pokemon that resists Gholdengo's STABs. 100 / 120 / 85 bulk is really nice, and HP-invested EV spreads can live many attacks. As difficult as late-game Kingambit is, its role compression is undeniable, and if you play the game well with a good team, you will always have a way to handle a late-game Kingambit. Also, a knowledgeable player will generally know what tera the Kingambit is based on the opposing team's needs, its item, its EV spread, and how it is played. While Tera Blast Fairy is a little bit trickier to play around, those sets almost always run Kowtow Cleave, meaning it only has Dark attacks before tera, making it easy to handle with any Fighting-, Fairy-, or Dark-type. Outside of its occasional reverse sweeps, Kingambit is a very healthy presence in the metagame. The 2.65 to 2.82 average is excessive hating on the king. Gliscor has had its waves of being too much for the metagame to handle, and if Kyurem and/or Ogerpon is banned, that will likely be the case again. As it currently stands, Gliscor is obnoxious but manageable. The two sets that Gliscor mostly runs are Swords Dance and Spikes. The best SD Gliscor team to date is still CTC's team with Sinistcha and Keldeo; Swords Dance Gliscor is most effective with hazard stack support, meaning you likely need to run Ting-Lu and have two Ground-types or Hisuian Samurott and be more frail, and you definitely cannot afford to have a Great Tusk for hazard removal as Ogerpon and any half-decent Water- or Grass-type will farm the team. So you are pretty restricted in how you optimally build an SD Gliscor team, and the aforementioned team was made during the Kyurem ban as the matchup is pretty terrible if you don't get hazards up quickly. Due to the team's success, the metagame evolved to handle it more effectively; for example, offensive Zamazenta runs Close Combat and Ice Fang to kill Gliscor in its base form and as Tera Normal. SD Gliscor also needs to decide if it runs Earthquake or Facade, both of which are fairly manageable to handle defensively for many teams once you know the coverage. Spikes Gliscor fits on more teams and provides great role compression, much like Landorus. The only part that I understand people find uncompetitive is how difficult it is to chip down since it seemingly heals it all off with a few switches and Protects. SD Gliscor is very oppressive for fat teams as it forces Knock Off on Pokemon like Dondozo and ignores chip damage, and I can sympathize with that. However, SD Gliscor is one of many threats to stall, with Ogerpon being nearly as potent while also having immediate power and great speed. Also, its ease of healing is overstated, as Stealth Rock makes chipping it down quite easy, and your team will (or at least should) always have a way to hit Gliscor hard and keep it low or dead. Unlike anything else on this list, Gliscor has a relevant counter to all its sets in Iron Defense Corviknight. Gliscor is annoying, but definitely not 2.71 to 2.85 level banworthy. In my experience, Zamazenta feels the most manageable on this list and offers the most for the metagame. Iron Defense Zamazenta is a great anti-offense Pokemon that doubles as a sweeper. Offensive sets are really fast and hit just hard enough to be threatening but not too hard to be banworthy (base 120 Attack is weak these days). With Dauntless Shield and its pure Fighting type, Zamazenta keeps so many Pokemon in check; in this list alone, it checks Kyurem, Ogerpon, and Kingambit, and it is amazing against all the strong Dark-types in the tier. The speed is phenomenal, as defensive sets are still able to outspeed +1 Adamant Dragonite, Darkrai, and other fast Pokemon, filling a unique roll for a tier that is so offensive. 92 / 115 / 115 bulk is really solid even on all-out attacking sets, and Dauntless Shield is a really great emergency check when needed. ID Zamazenta is the more oppressive set of the two, but this set struggles heavily into many Ghost-types. With no Pursuit, the spammable move Shadow Ball into a metagame with Blissey as the only Normal type, and Rapid Spin being the primary form of hazard removal, this is not a big ask at all. Dragapult outspeeds and can burn it, bulky Gholdengo is usually able to 1v1 if the opponent isn't lucky with Crunch defense drops, the rise of Pecharunt has really been problematic for Zamazenta, and there are other less used Ghosts like Sinistcha and Skeledirge that are difficult too. You do not even need a Ghost resist to handle Zamazenta; Rocky Helmet Landorus with Earth Power chips it down, the Kantonian birds require Stone Edge to beat on offensive sets or Tera Electric/Fire on defensive sets, all of the Fairies handle Zamazenta quite well, and the list goes on. That's not even to say how a random Tera Ghost, which is good in general to block Extreme Speed from Dragonite and Rapid Spin from Great Tusk, can completely stop Zamazenta in its tracks. Zamazenta has plenty of counterplay and is very healthy for the metagame, and I do not know how it was voted as 2.39 to 2.67 when Raging Bolt has less counterplay and offers less value to the metagame.Other notes
I found this to be most interesting, as I almost wrote it in as well but decided not to. Ting-Lu is a bit too good at its job, as it can tank the strongest supereffective hits like it's nothing and do something annoying in return. I don't think there is one game that I have felt Ting-Lu has been useless, because it at the very least can scout a set and give me insight into how I should play the game. There is zero risk of running this Pokemon, and there will always be some reward, ranging from scouting a set to stacking hazards to stopping a set-up sweeper to chipping down everything with Ruination and Earthquake... and hazards... and Whirlwind. I used Ting-Lu in 4 of my 8 OUPL games, and it would always do its job of getting hazards up, eating hits with ease, keeping many threats in check, and racking up chip for my teammates. Even when building, I remember trying to make a Greninja team for one of my matches, and one my teammates pointed out that nothing could 2HKO Ting-Lu. I looked, and sure enough, Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump is an unfavorable roll to 2HKO Ting-Lu with Leftovers. That should not even be possible for a Pokemon allowed in OU, but it makes sense that when you take Vessel of Ruin into account, Ting-Lu's bulk is essentially 155 / 125 / 123, making Pokemon like Ferrothorn and Toxapex look like feathers in comparison. The combination of Ruination and Earthquake off its decent 110 attack stat keep it an offensive presence as well, as you cannot use Ting-Lu as setup fodder. The support Ting-Lu provides a team is pretty unmatched, and I am impressed that it got the most amount of write-ins, but it is not an oppressive Pokemon and is not too hard to hit supereffectively and break down due to its lack of healing moves. I remember Vert raving about Pecharunt and Fezandipiti during World Cup last year. While I had very little faith in Fezandipiti (which still is not entirely wrong), I saw some potential in Pecharunt, but still mostly preferred Sinistcha at the time for a spinblocker and Galarian Slowking as a grounded Poison pivot. To no one's surprise, this is one of many examples of Vert being a visionary, as Pecharunt is doing really well in the current meta. This Pokemon is obnoxious like Gliscor but more manageable as common Steel-types and the aforementioned Ting-Lu are pretty great into Pecharunt. Fast pivoting with Parting Shot, a sky-high defense, solid defensive typing, and the RNG of Malignant Chain's 50% toxic chance and Poison Puppeteer's 33% confusion chance is gross. Fast Pecharunt is really difficult to remove against, and I brought it to OUPL finals and won my game. Pecharunt was able to come in Great Tusk late in the game, take only 64% from Headlong Rush, take out the red health Great Tusk with Hex to keep Stealth Rock up, and force red-health Choice Band Roaring Moon to lock into Knock Off to take me out and get picked off by a Dragonite Extreme Speed. I would not have brought Pecharunt if I did not think it was a strong Pokemon, and even though all the Pokemon on my opponent's team could easily 2-shot me, Pecharunt still managed to be quite useful. While it is annoying to deal with, the metagame needs more time to develop around its presence before I can say it is uncompetitive. Nobody wrote Dragonite in, which makes sense as Tera Blast was asked about in the survey, but I want to shed more light on how difficult Dragon Dance Dragonite is to handle since all the sets require mostly different counterplay. Loaded Dice Dragonite feels the most manageable of the sets, as Fire Punch is weak without tera or several boosts, and the Tera Fire burn immunity does not come into play often, but Scale Shot is a strong move that can help Dragonite spiral out of control, and Encore is a good support option into Kingambit trying to revenge into Dragonite's defense drops. Tera Normal Extreme Speed with Earthquake and Ice Spinner is probably the most common set and the set that players play around, but the coverage is still not to be understated and can be quite difficult to handle. Tera Ground is another alternative, which boosts the power of Earthquake and stops Thunderclap. Rock Slide or Stone Edge can be tech'd on to handle the Kantonian birds. Tera Blast Fairy + Earthquake is nearly unwallable, and I lost one of my OUPL games because my team, which was pretty well-built for most Dragonite, had zero outs late-game once I was weakened a little bit. The set I believe is strongest currently is Jolly Tera Blast Flying with Earthquake and Rock Slide. When I look through my builder, there is not one team that can handle this Dragonite set at +1 if the team is chipped down a little, except for Corviknight teams. I slept on the dragon for a while, but if Tera Blast remains, I think Dragonite could go beyond its role as a revenge killer into something more unhealthy for the metagame and difficult to handle.I hope this was insightful to some people! I am excited to see how the metagame develops with SPL and OST.
i don't think this is the metric we should be using because it has more to do with greninja just being kind of bad. it's got 103 spa, of course it's not gonna be 2hkoing everything straight out the gate with life orb. there's a reason we don't see, say, special life orb dragapult
+1 252 SpA Tera Fairy Glimmora Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 246-290 (47.8 - 56.4%) -- 32.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Tera Fairy Glimmora Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 213-252 (41.4 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Tera Fairy Gholdengo Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 168-198 (32.6 - 38.5%) -- 2.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Tera Fairy Gholdengo Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 218-257 (42.4 - 50%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Are these calculations satisfactory for you, DaddyMosquito?
BREAKING: mon known as defensive behemoth with no recovery move not die to one hit. seraphyde quoted as saying “why won’t this thing die in one hit to my Tera Fairy Dazzling Gleam?!”. hazards and other chip damage nowhere to be found. more at 7.
life orb glimm is wild
this isn't even its first appearance in the seraphyde files. he tried to use it as a gliscor check:
because we all know that glimmora has such a great matchup against ground-types
That's not even my set.
Check
Glimmora @ Life Orb
Ability: Toxic Debris
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Power Gem
- Sludge Wave
- Earth Power
- Dazzling Gleam
Glimmora can't switch in since it dies to Earth Power. However, it can outspeed and OHKO with its Poison STAB, since it's supereffective whether Hydrapple teras or not.
252 SpA Life Orb Glimmora Sludge Wave vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Hydrapple: 486-577 (117.3 - 139.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Counter
Enamorus @ Leftovers
Ability: Cute Charm
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 SpA /...
Glimmora @ Life Orb
Ability: Toxic Debris
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Power Gem
- Sludge Wave
- Earth Power
- Dazzling Gleam
Glimmora can't switch in since it dies to Earth Power. However, it can outspeed and OHKO with its Poison STAB, since it's supereffective whether Hydrapple teras or not.
252 SpA Life Orb Glimmora Sludge Wave vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Hydrapple: 486-577 (117.3 - 139.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Counter
Enamorus @ Leftovers
Ability: Cute Charm
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 SpA /...
so what you're saying is, it was a victim of the week submission, for a victim that isn't ou, that got *checks notes* zero votes. truly one of the things of all time that should be brought up in ting-lu calcsThat's not even my set.
Check
Glimmora @ Life Orb
Ability: Toxic Debris
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Power Gem
- Sludge Wave
- Earth Power
- Dazzling Gleam
Glimmora can't switch in since it dies to Earth Power. However, it can outspeed and OHKO with its Poison STAB, since it's supereffective whether Hydrapple teras or not.
252 SpA Life Orb Glimmora Sludge Wave vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Hydrapple: 486-577 (117.3 - 139.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Counter
Enamorus @ Leftovers
Ability: Cute Charm
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 SpA /...