Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4

:ting-lu: I found this to be most interesting, as I almost wrote it in as well but decided not to. Ting-Lu is a bit too good at its job, as it can tank the strongest supereffective hits like it's nothing and do something annoying in return. I don't think there is one game that I have felt Ting-Lu has been useless, because it at the very least can scout a set and give me insight into how I should play the game. There is zero risk of running this Pokemon, and there will always be some reward, ranging from scouting a set to stacking hazards to stopping a set-up sweeper to chipping down everything with Ruination and Earthquake... and hazards... and Whirlwind. I used Ting-Lu in 4 of my 8 OUPL games, and it would always do its job of getting hazards up, eating hits with ease, keeping many threats in check, and racking up chip for my teammates. Even when building, I remember trying to make a Greninja team for one of my matches, and one my teammates pointed out that nothing could 2HKO Ting-Lu. I looked, and sure enough, Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump is an unfavorable roll to 2HKO Ting-Lu with Leftovers. That should not even be possible for a Pokemon allowed in OU, but it makes sense that when you take Vessel of Ruin into account, Ting-Lu's bulk is essentially 155 / 125 / 123, making Pokemon like Ferrothorn and Toxapex look like feathers in comparison. The combination of Ruination and Earthquake off its decent 110 attack stat keep it an offensive presence as well, as you cannot use Ting-Lu as setup fodder. The support Ting-Lu provides a team is pretty unmatched, and I am impressed that it got the most amount of write-ins, but it is not an oppressive Pokemon and is not too hard to hit supereffectively and break down due to its lack of healing moves.

:pecharunt: I remember Vert raving about Pecharunt and Fezandipiti during World Cup last year. While I had very little faith in Fezandipiti (which still is not entirely wrong), I saw some potential in Pecharunt, but still mostly preferred Sinistcha at the time for a spinblocker and Galarian Slowking as a grounded Poison pivot. To no one's surprise, this is one of many examples of Vert being a visionary, as Pecharunt is doing really well in the current meta. This Pokemon is obnoxious like Gliscor but more manageable as common Steel-types and the aforementioned Ting-Lu are pretty great into Pecharunt. Fast pivoting with Parting Shot, a sky-high defense, solid defensive typing, and the RNG of Malignant Chain's 50% toxic chance and Poison Puppeteer's 33% confusion chance is gross. Fast Pecharunt is really difficult to remove against, and I brought it to OUPL finals and won my game. Pecharunt was able to come in Great Tusk late in the game, take only 64% from Headlong Rush, take out the red health Great Tusk with Hex to keep Stealth Rock up, and force red-health Choice Band Roaring Moon to lock into Knock Off to take me out and get picked off by a Dragonite Extreme Speed. I would not have brought Pecharunt if I did not think it was a strong Pokemon, and even though all the Pokemon on my opponent's team could easily 2-shot me, Pecharunt still managed to be quite useful. While it is annoying to deal with, the metagame needs more time to develop around its presence before I can say it is uncompetitive.
There is zero fucking shot some of yall wanna ban the only splashable checks to a lot of the metagame

(not you roller k, just reacting to the write ins ol)
 
The issue with Ting-Lu is that almost nothing can stay in on it. Anything that isn't an outright wall usually gets 2KOed by EQ or Ruination + EQ meanwhile even supereffective hits are at most 3KOs. It's unironically just too good at its job, it can always find opportunities to click Spikes between its obscene bulk, Whirlwind, and the fact that it forces out the overwhelming majority of the metagame. Taunt doesn't even stop it because it can just reliably mash EQ and kill whatever taunted it.
 
Can we just all ignore this guy instead of answering to each terrible take he makes? We here all agree or disagree on different things and that is valid, but each time Seraphyde talks, the price of bread rises and we spend time to bring our own arguments he doesnt bother to listen. So, I think we should just let him post in peace while we execute our evil plot to get Waterpon banned.
 
Can we just all ignore this guy instead of answering to each terrible take he makes? We here all agree or disagree on different things and that is valid, but each time Seraphyde talks, the price of bread rises and we spend time to bring our own arguments he doesnt bother to listen. So, I think we should just let him post in peace while we execute our evil plot to get Waterpon banned.
Agreed. It's pretty clear that he's baiting, and even if he isn't he might as well be.
 
Any Tourney players wanna explain what makes SV OU enjoyable? I seriously try to give this tier a chance, but I end up not having fun. Though I’ve seen several prominent members of this community state how they actually enjoy the metagame, and even think it’s in a fairly good place.

So for those grinding tourneys what makes SV OU fun/competitive? Also just for fun if you could change something about the tier what would it be?
SV OU is unique, quite different from any other past gen OU. As someone who started playing competitively in SS, I absolutely hated SV when it first dropped. I resisted playing it for over a year because of how stark a contrast it was to the game I was familiar with. I was a regular ban voter on basically every suspect test from tera all the way to the most recent kyurem suspect test. Recently, however, my opinion on SV as a metagame has taken a complete 180.

The main difference between then and now is that I grind the tier. One thing that was stressed to me by SV mainers over the past couple years is that you have to play the tier to be successful - and they were completely right. SV OU is not very kind to players just trying to pick it up casually or to those who don't care to invest time to learn the intricacies. You need to be on top of trends and meta shifts on a weekly basis. My opinion of the tier shifted when I started laddering multiple times a week - and I think this is very necessary to be successful.

Contrary to what many people in this thread may suggest, I think the metagame is in a fine place. I was in favor of banning kyurem initially, but I actually missed it when it was gone for two weeks - and I would not vote to ban it again. In fact, I think the GF ban was one of the last "necessary" bans to make SV a good and stable tier. The element of tera, while making things more volatile in a sense, also gives the player much more agency in their games - and I have come to appreciate the extra dimension that comes with building/prepping and decisions you make ingame.

I generally support every ban that has happened so far, but I would go no further than we have already. SV OU is a good tier.
 
One thing that was stressed to me by SV mainers over the past couple years is that you have to play the tier to be successful

I think this makes complete sense, though I wonder how good it is for the tier. Sometimes, ou will have a higher skill floor/need more time to be put into it to feel good, but it - which i admit is pretty selfish - makes a bit sad when it happens as it completely shuts me out of the cgou. im not a very active player, i scatter across accounts and months, its hard to make a habit of playing with my busy schedule. with swsh ou, i could stop playing for a while and then pick up it again and get back to where i was after some games, but with sv every hiatus feels like losing a bunch of progress on understanding the teams, the tera types etc.

though maybe this is just a mid ladder player skill issue lol, im probably not a player worth cattering to
 
SV OU right now is a pretty good tier, especially relative to earlier editions. There were time right after releases when it was in bad shape for sure, but this metagame has developed well and will continue to adjust with time. I would be in favor of a possible couple of suspects and maybe a ban, but claiming we need to overturn the whole tier or do anything dramatic at this point feels misguided.

The claim that balance isn’t usable or flexible is disproven directly by just playing or watching the tier itself. Lu+Pech backbones give us a new option, Gliscor variations react into those in an ok fashion, and that’s not to mention newer staples like Moltres or older ones like Slowking-Galar are still strong, enabling different team combinations within the archetype.

Offense is still good and usable. It’s not at its peak, but that isn’t really a bad thing. Stall is balanced and perfectly beatable, but still in part a skill check and in part a prep check for certain players and styles. I view this all as closer to ideal than not.

We will probably have more discussions on the metagame and aspects like Kyurem, which do have a lot of support and should be met with proper degrees of attention, but this isn’t exactly a bad position.

Finally, what clean says is true — you need a lot of reps to go from eh to truly good at SV. The tier shifts a lot and Tera warrants practice to engage with well among other things.
 
We don’t, and really shouldn’t, tier based on what something adds or subtracts to the tier. I’d describe myself as a tiering purist - tiering should be completely individual from the metagame, and a low metagame enjoyment score should not necessarily indicate that a suspect is necessary. Something like Kyurem may not “add” to the metagame with all of its net positives, but if it’s not broken, it should not be banned. That’s why I’m saying we either go all the way or go nowhere - we cannot effectively project what will pop up post-ban due to the level of variance in the tier, so we must either take drastic or no action in order to try and find a better metagame through either forced or natural metagame destabilization.
 
SV OU right now is a pretty good tier, especially relative to earlier editions. There were time right after releases when it was in bad shape for sure, but this metagame has developed well and will continue to adjust with time. I would be in favor of a possible couple of suspects and maybe a ban, but claiming we need to overturn the whole tier or do anything dramatic at this point feels misguided.

The claim that balance isn’t usable or flexible is disproven directly by just playing or watching the tier itself. Lu+Pech backbones give us a new option, Gliscor variations react into those in an ok fashion, and that’s not to mention newer staples like Moltres or older ones like Slowking-Galar are still strong, enabling different team combinations within the archetype.

Offense is still good and usable. It’s not at its peak, but that isn’t really a bad thing. Stall is balanced and perfectly beatable, but still in part a skill check and in part a prep check for certain players and styles. I view this all as closer to ideal than not.

We will probably have more discussions on the metagame and aspects like Kyurem, which do have a lot of support and should be met with proper degrees of attention, but this isn’t exactly a bad position.

Finally, what clean says is true — you need a lot of reps to go from eh to truly good at SV. The tier shifts a lot and Tera warrants practice to engage with well among other things.
is there any data on what the amount of participants in the most recent survey is compared to the one before it?
 
Did I actually fucking get ICBB for being a serial yapper

This is incredible. I am now going to never post here again

Alright last post for a long fuckin while

----------

With the rise of Pecharunt/Gholdengo/Ting-Lu/Zamazenta/Dragonite type structures in OST and other similar tours, you may be wondering how to counter these seemingly overpowered strategies. Well, here's your answer.

Pain Split Hatterene walls Ting-Lu and denies hazards forever, and can hit Gholdengo switch-ins with Mystical Fire.

Ting-Lu walls Gholdengo forever, and can also perform vital defensive functions.

Pecharunt owns Zamazenta and walls it forever, while acting as a defensive pivot. I recommend Tera Fairy on these sets to hard block all Zamazenta except Tera Steel Heavy Slam, which isn't as common.

Finally, Glowking is a fantastic anti-Pecharunt pivot.

This core is really solid and could perform well as an anti-meta strategy and shit. Try it out, I recommend it.

--------------------------------

Alright, that's it for me. I'll go hiding. You can find me in stallcord, dms as rainebowstargirl, or working on the stall bible. /gen. cyall!
 
Did I actually fucking get ICBB for being a serial yapper

This is incredible. I am now going to never post here again

Alright last post for a long fuckin while
this is like the 4th time you’ve said bye and very likely the fourth time you return within a few days
 
it's like watching someone storm out of the room but the exit is a revolving door

and so this isn't a one-liner, i'll try to spark some discussion: nearly a month in, what's been your favorite niche tech of 2025 so far?
Sacred Sword on Samurott-H. You won’t believe how many people are stupid enough to throw their Gambit or Moon at me not knowing that it’s about to get deleted.
 
it's like watching someone storm out of the room but the exit is a revolving door

and so this isn't a one-liner, i'll try to spark some discussion: nearly a month in, what's been your favorite niche tech of 2025 so far?
Entei, honestly. I've seen someone using it on the high ladde recently (JackRG maybe?? correct me if I'm wrong), has been used in SPL and someone destroyed me on ladder using swagger mirror herb tera normal ESpeed.

Out of the legendary "beasts" (we all know they're the legendary dogs), I think Entei is the best in OU right now.
 
it's like watching someone storm out of the room but the exit is a revolving door

and so this isn't a one-liner, i'll try to spark some discussion: nearly a month in, what's been your favorite niche tech of 2025 so far?
3A roar zama

4A zama in general is one of the best glue mons in the format, and i think roar is a really cool tech to add onto that so you can overcome opposing zama, bolt, moon, etc that would try to set up on you. It also does a great job of spreading hazard damage around on ting lu builds

we're now effortmaxxing on posts:swole:
 
Last edited:
Balance is dead. Millions of formerly-great balance ladderers have fallen to the cold ground, seeing as they cannot handle the endless barrage of offensive threats like Wellspring and Kyurem that 6-0 their poor teams. Spikes lay strewn around their dead bodies, remnants of a once-great and sacred playstyle torn down to the ground by Generation 9. What was once revered, now sinks into the earth as the worst major playstyle in SV Overused.
 
Entei, honestly. I've seen someone using it on the high ladde recently (JackRG maybe?? correct me if I'm wrong), has been used in SPL and someone destroyed me on ladder using swagger mirror herb tera normal ESpeed.

Out of the legendary "beasts" (we all know they're the legendary dogs), I think Entei is the best in OU right now.
yeah that was jack. cb entei is actually a beast (pun intended) on fat balance/semistall and i'm super hyped for the impending rmt he's doing with it. sacred fire being able to deal out massive damage and spread burns is an incredible boon to bulky structures
 
Entei, honestly. I've seen someone using it on the high ladde recently (JackRG maybe?? correct me if I'm wrong), has been used in SPL and someone destroyed me on ladder using swagger mirror herb tera normal ESpeed.

Out of the legendary "beasts" (we all know they're the legendary dogs), I think Entei is the best in OU right now.
There's also subtect, which I randomly got destroyed by once on a team with subtect kyurem. Can be even more annoying with how easily it can spread burns, though its invalidated by Scor quite a bit.

Think this dog has a lot of good traits, its been fairly fun to mess around with. Honestly I might even use it over Gouging Fire.
 
Back
Top