Pokemon that disappointed you in-game despite looking good initially?

[Basedwell]

One of the problems with grass types is unlike other defensive Pokemon, you can’t use it as a pivot as frequently.

I play on set mode with no items in battle, like i assume most people on here do. There are defensive Pokemon, like Bronzong, that you can switch in, take a hit easily, and then do damage in return. That way, you don’t lose momentum and even if Bronzong only gets a kill or so, you kept the switched out Pokemon alive without losing another for nothing.

IE in the Elite 4, the second Pokemon that comes out usually has a move that can hit my first, Bronzong frequently resists wtv that move is. It comes in, absorbs it, then knocks it out in return. Then after it eventually gets KO-ed, I can bring in the first Pokemon again to finish the fight with its threats eliminated

The problem with grass, is that there are so many attacks they’re weak to, or Pokemon they can’t hit, that they don’t do as well in this role.

Also, one struggle of defensive Pokemon, is that their earlier moves are less effective. Like, an offensive Pokemon can use weaker attacks earlier in the game, because it has weaker opponents who will be knocked out by them. Weaker status moves, genuinely don’t do anything, or enough at all. And with no recovery, setting up defensively is inconsistent

Also many statuses benefit the computer more due to the nature of fights. As you expect to win 90 percent of the fights if not more, sleeping for five turns or getting paralysis 6 turns in a row can cause you to unexpectedly lose once of twice.

But that’s not a consistent winning strategy, and if you try it won’t work more often than not.

I will say, in terms of defensive Pokemon, Skarm in Emerald, Bronzong in Plat, and Amoonguss in White Forest all put in work for me, and had completely fine offenses for in-game usage.

I’m using Snivy in a play through of BW rn, and so far it’s been great, but I’m only past the 2nd gym. Panpour was so ass I benched it in favor of the tadpole, but we’ll see if it comes back. I’ll keep yall posted :)

 

[Ironmage]

Also, one struggle of defensive Pokemon, is that their earlier moves are less effective. Like, an offensive Pokemon can use weaker attacks earlier in the game, because it has weaker opponents who will be knocked out by them. Weaker status moves, genuinely don’t do anything, or enough at all. And with no recovery, setting up defensively is inconsistent

I've actually felt that status-focused mons come online earlier than offense-focused ones. Outside of stat changes (which is a noticable chunk I will admit), status moves often don't have lesser and greater versions learned by the same mon so the full version comes pretty early. I also find that offensive mons want coverage more than status mons want backup statuses, so that leech seed learned at around level 20 may be the only thing needed for a whole playthrough. Attacks with higher utility like Infestation or Nuzzle also generally show up early because of low listed power.

 

[Basedwell]

I've actually felt that status-focused mons come online earlier than offense-focused ones. Outside of stat changes (which is a noticable chunk I will admit), status moves often don't have lesser and greater versions learned by the same mon so the full version comes pretty early. I also find that offensive mons want coverage more than status mons want backup statuses, so that leech seed learned at around level 20 may be the only thing needed for a whole playthrough. Attacks with higher utility like Infestation or Nuzzle also generally show up early because of low listed power.

That’s fair. I was thinking of stat changes, supersonic vs confuse ray, and some poison/recovery moves. I mainly play earlier generations so it may be more prevalent there.

 

[Cobalt Empoleon]

This has always been the case, I think. As the games all consist of long strings of relatively short battles, the whole disruptive/utility playstyle itself becomes inferior to the "just hit it" playstyle. For instance, you may win most battles by taking three turns to set up a sick Ingrain + Poison Powder + Leech Seed combo, then letting it play out over the next five turns; but in very many cases, you can achieve the exact same outcome much faster just by using a strong Pokémon and clicking Thunderbolt. Then you win the battle in one turn, and don't need any healing afterwards.

As victory in battles is the fastest way to earn EXP, strong offensive Pokémon level up much faster and easier than strong defensive Pokémon. Heck, even *weak* offensive Pokémon will do better than strong defensive ones. Hence, players are incentivised not to play to the primary strengths of defensive or utility Pokémon, but instead slap offensive moves on them so they can gain some EXP. I've used Rock Slide on Probopass and Acrobatics on Jumpluff, because it's the easiest way for these cool Pokémon to contribute to my team, even though they've got Attack on par with Delibird and Venonat. Their defensive or disruptive utility is great in theory, but so inefficient as to become pretty much useless in-game, compared to just slugging it out with STAB moves. That is rather disappointing.

Of course, now shared EXP has become the norm, but fact still remains that strong offensive Pokémon is the fastest way to earn it. The result is that the strong defensive Pokémon now can keep up with the rest of the party, at the cost of not actually participating in any battles. You've got them on your team, but they hardly ever *do* anything. Maybe except for the few battles that are difficult enough to actually warrant a good strategy, but those are really rare. And even there, your primary teammates can usually plow through regardless.

At least in Doubles gameplay, there is value in having a support 'mon on the field, to set up favourable field conditions and sponge attacks. But the games haven't had a lot of Double battles during the main story since the spin-off games on the GameCube. Indigo Disk was a breath of fresh air in that regard, though.

I'll concede that "strategies based around passive damage or debuffs" was a misleading way for me to phrase my point; I'm not saying that full support/debuff sets were ever an effective way to play the games (outside of Colo/XD), but that having one or two support moves on a mon used to make some sense back in the day, whereas now it basically always feels pointless. This is partly because offensive movepools used to be way worse, so there was less competition for moveslots, but you were also just way more likely to find yourself at a big level disadvantage in, say, Gens 1-4, which is the situation where utility moves tend to outshine all-out attacking sets.

 

[Basedwell]

I'll concede that "strategies based around passive damage or debuffs" was a misleading way for me to phrase my point; I'm not saying that full support/debuff sets were ever an effective way to play the games (outside of Colo/XD), but that having one or two support moves on a mon used to make some sense back in the day, whereas now it basically always feels pointless. This is partly because offensive movepools used to be way worse, so there was less competition for moveslots, but you were also just way more likely to find yourself at a big level disadvantage in, say, Gens 1-4, which is the situation where utility moves tend to outshine all-out attacking sets.

In my limited experience in later generations, it feels like most Pokemon “play” the same. They all have good damaging moves, and there are few enough fights that little intricacies stop mattering. It doesn’t matter if a Pokemon has bad speed because it can still take a hit and trade with another Pokemon with one of its three 80-100 BP moves the three fights it gets into where it’s relevant.

Gyarados used to be iconic because it had a bad stage before evolving into a really good Pokemon, now you just throw it in the back of your party til the third gym. Now the only difference between it and other water types is it will withstand the Fire attack that’s SE against waters in Gen X, due to intimidate. At least until the DLC where they give the fire attack to a Pokemon that has a HA where all its moves always crit.

 

[Samtendo09]

In my limited experience in later generations, it feels like most Pokemon “play” the same. They all have good damaging moves, and there are few enough fights that little intricacies stop mattering. It doesn’t matter if a Pokemon has bad speed because it can still take a hit and trade with another Pokemon with one of its three 80-100 BP moves the three fights it gets into where it’s relevant.

Gyarados used to be iconic because it had a bad stage before evolving into a really good Pokemon, now you just throw it in the back of your party til the third gym. Now the only difference between it and other water types is it will withstand the Fire attack that’s SE against waters in Gen X, due to intimidate. At least until the DLC where they give the fire attack to a Pokemon that has a HA where all its moves always crit.

I’ll be frank with you, movepool alone doesn’t make enough distinction between Pokémon. Even if their movepool “are the same”, there are other mechanics like secondary type and Ability to take into account.

The real issue is the fact that the main game insists on level up learnset on all opponents, not just generic NPCs, which can result giving thay feeling that most Pokémon play the same, especially since the Gym Leaders’ team tend to be just as generic as the trainers’, aside of the gifted TM if they even use it. As a result, alongside that way too many in-game battles are Single, it ended up making the game even more samey than if the pre-postgame allows diverse strategies that the battle engine can allow.

 

[Basedwell]

I’ll be frank with you, movepool alone doesn’t make enough distinction between Pokémon. Even if their movepool “are the same”, there are other mechanics like secondary type and Ability to take into account.

Yeah, I understand that in a literal sense, not every Pokemon is the same. I’m saying that details like secondary typing, abilities, and stat distributions matter less in later generations because:

1. Battles are more infrequent: a slow Pokemon used to be harder to use, because it would get worn down through status conditions and taking hits before it could move. Now it’s only relevant a handful of times in a playthrough. By the same token, a useful ability becomes less relevant because it comes up infrequently.

2. It’s easier to train Pokemon now: by the same virtue, any awkward period in a Pokemon’s development can be hid by keeping it in the back of the party for no extra work or investment than would otherwise exist. It takes less effort and battles.

3. Due to every Pokemon having access to strong moves, the infrequent times they have to fight in the game, regardless of ability, stat distribution, or secondary typing, they’ll do okay for themselves compared to the AI and movesets of the Pokemon they face by using those strong attacks

Before, you might actually wanna plan out which Pokemon to use, because choosing a bad team, or even a bad Pokemon or 2, could make the end of the game more challenging. Now, provided you don’t lose both hands and can no longer press A, pretty much all Pokemon can hit their moves well enough to win.

Like, if I was to decide whether to train up Lucario or Gallade for the Elite 4 in Platinum, there would be multiple factors in my decision:

How would their secondary typing affect them defensively

How will each one play into matchups, what strategy and moveset would be optimal

How hard will it be to train them


Now either one will be strong enough to contribute without that thought process.

3.5). Also they’re increasingly making moves and abilities that break or overpower traditional mechanics to make new Pokemon more exciting.

The real issue is the fact that the main game insists on level up learnset on all opponents, not just generic NPCs, which can result giving thay feeling that most Pokémon play the same, especially since the Gym Leaders’ team tend to be just as generic as the trainers’, aside of the gifted TM if they even use it. As a result, alongside that way too many in-game battles are Single, it ended up making the game even more samey than if the pre-postgame allows diverse strategies that the battle engine can allow.

I disagree. By facing the same opponent and strategy over and over, you find weaknesses in your own team, that you are prompted to fix because if not you’ll constantly face little annoying matchups.

I’d say most gym leaders have perfectly fine movesets, but when you’ve played the games repeatedly it’s easy to accidentally find a perfect counter. But there are plenty of times I’ve been surprised by a SE move coming out of nowhere.

IG I’d def be open to harder battles throughout. Especially for gym leaders, but that’s not where my critique was about.

 

[Castersvarog]

If there’s yet another thing that sucks about Grass types is that half % of the time, they just use grass types moves.

One issue I run into constantly with running Grass Types (Starter runs in Gen 2, 4, 5, and 7, as well as team members in other games like XY Venusaur or Hoppip/Seedot in XD) is that their coverage is absolutely abysmal for in-game purposes. Namely I don't think Grass has a single 2-type combination that achieves neutral coverage against most in-game encounters; type combos with PERFECT neutrality (even just against the chart, nevermind specific Pokemon) are rare, but I swear every 2-type combo I can think of with Grass gets walled by at least 2 Mono-types or more. Combined with their often middling offensive stats, it makes it very hard for them to punch through more than maybe 1 or 2 members of an opponent's team even when it's a SE favored match-up because they can run into a secondary Resist (EX: Juan's Kingdra or Clay's Excadrill), often against the Ace which employs something for that specific purpose.

Breloom is the only Grass-Type I've had a positive experience running in-game because SV lets you use Rock Tomb early to compliment its STABs (nails Bug and Flying type resistances), but even then that was showing some underwhelming power by late game since I used an early-raid catch with Rock Tera and Technician isn't available until post-game via Ability Patches or 5*+ raids.

And that’s even if they get good coverage to begin with because Gamefreak is afraid of having Earth Power be the grass type equivalent to the Water types Ice beam. (Hitting their most common walls that STAB grass can’t get past in Poison, Fire, and Steel types)

And it feels like every grass starter pre-gen 6 was so bad about this.
Serperiors best showing is in BW2 exclusively because it can use Aqua tail as coverage, and that’s not saying much.
Sceptiles only other special coverage until postgame is Dragon Claw.
Torterra has STAB earthquake, but lives in the region where half of the enemy teams are just Zubat/Bronzor.
Venasaur has Sleep Powder I suppose and a good region for it, but Poison was still bad until gen 6.
Meganium…has sleep powder and screens to I guess?

It’s just like, why are the three starter types just so poorly balanced between one another. Or rather, why is grass always being forced to have a poor showing?
The games having a greater focus on just going pure hyper offensive instead of literally any other strategy because it’s just faster certainly doesn’t help

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Grass's identity as the disruptive toolbox type is a) what I really like about it and b) increasingly at odds with the design philosophy of single-player Pokemon. With Totem Pokemon+Ultra Necrozma as pretty much the sole exception, the modern games tend to discourage the player from using slower strategies based around passive damage or debuffs. You probably won't find yourself consistently underlevelled in the newer games without deliberately handicapping yourself, so why bother with any strategy beyond 'STAB+coverage'? Supermechanics have contributed too, by always favouring the flashier, more offensive use cases, both in terms of NPC usage and general competitive utility (Dynamax in particular completely removes your ability to use unique non-damaging move effects).

Power creep also makes things tricky. When offensive threats are so strong, it becomes harder to justify using Grass's toolbox for any purpose besides enabling a sweeper (which is just a different flavour of offence). However, it's very difficult to make disruptive/utility moves strong enough to compete as a separate strategy without also making them deeply unpleasant and restrictive to play against (which is probably why Smeargle is still our fastest Spore user).

Grass having disruptive moves is great, but ultimately, it needs that extra punch and reliability.

Honestly, I'd buff the draining moves so they can act as both a reliable damage tool, and as a healing option.

Giga Drain should have 90BP, and Mega Drain should regain its TM status with a power adjustment. Leave GD for Grass-types.

A lot of types lack identity through their moves, but this is not the case with Grass. It just needs a little push towards leveraging damage output and defensive utility.

 

[Basedwell]

when I replayed White recently, Ferrothorn absolutely cleared Drayden without taking a lick of damage in the process using Rocky Helmet + Curse/Ingrain + Gyro Ball after sufficiently set up. It was so much fun, hands down one of my favorite beatdowns I've done.

And while training up Eggsecute or wtv tf his name is in Crystal, I regularly used leech seed, including against Morty's gym trainers. It really didn't take that long and was super fun and satisfying. And that was with a moveset that could be out-attacked by a flail Magikarp. This is my version of "Ladies, if he wanted to do it, he would" because Grass isn't that bad outside of when it has a bad matchup. and that's on Gamefreak however many years ago now

 

[mertyville]

Hitmontop in Pokemon Colosseum might be the first time we got to finally use Hitmontop in-game. A fighting type with Intimidate. Amazing right? Until you see its moveset.
Who made Triple Kick? What an awful move. So you probably gonna waste the Brick Break TM if you haven't wasted it on it. And it learns nothing. Up to that point you already have the option to use Hariyama and Medichamp who have more reliable moves when you catch them. What does Hitmontop learn? Endevor and Detect per lv-up... Its starting movepool has only Shadow Rush as its best move.
Truly Johto moment...

 

[Basedwell]

I love the hitmons and intend to use them more in game this year… that said hitmontop was the one time I’ve ever given myself a re-do on a Pokemon in a Nuzlocke…

Anyhoo, after playing some more,


Alakazam: I finally got access to Alakazam in HGSS this year. I was excited to use, and used it sporadically in the 2nd half of the game. It was getting trade + lucky egg xp so it was like level 38, with less EVs than usual, I didn’t take it to the Elite 4.

I was using it on the SS Aqua, and it got one shot by a Flareon using Bite. My Zam had a Modest nature so it wasn’t bulky or anything and didn’t have as many EVs as usual, but it got one shot by a SE 60 BP move from fucking Flareon… and also it had a modest nature and it couldn’t one-shot with Psybeam…

Obv with Psychic equipped it does better but still, I’ve had much more game breaking Pokemon who could take a physical hit.


I was also a little surprised Gengar wasn’t better. It couldn’t get through Sabrina’s Espeon even with a Choice Scarf attached so it wasn’t going to get one shot before it could move. It had more EVs but a suboptimal nature and was slightly underleveled (like 48). It was barely missing the KO with Shadowball.

 

[QuentinQuonce]

I love the hitmons and intend to use them more in game this year… that said hitmontop was the one time I’ve ever given myself a re-do on a Pokemon in a Nuzlocke…

Anyhoo, after playing some more,


Alakazam: I finally got access to Alakazam in HGSS this year. I was excited to use, and used it sporadically in the 2nd half of the game. It was getting trade + lucky egg xp so it was like level 38, with less EVs than usual, I didn’t take it to the Elite 4.

I was using it on the SS Aqua, and it got one shot by a Flareon using Bite. My Zam had a Modest nature so it wasn’t bulky or anything and didn’t have as many EVs as usual, but it got one shot by a SE 60 BP move from fucking Flareon… and also it had a modest nature and it couldn’t one-shot with Psybeam…

Obv with Psychic equipped it does better but still, I’ve had much more game breaking Pokemon who could take a physical hit.


I was also a little surprised Gengar wasn’t better. It couldn’t get through Sabrina’s Espeon even with a Choice Scarf attached so it wasn’t going to get one shot before it could move. It had more EVs but a suboptimal nature and was slightly underleveled (like 48). It was barely missing the KO with Shadowball.

Saying Alakazam isn't that great in HGSS? Sacrilege. Damn, I hope people come for you like they did for me when I dared to state my opinion that Mareep isn't all that

 

[Basedwell]

Saying Alakazam isn't that great in HGSS? Sacrilege. Damn, I hope people come for you like they did for me when I dared to state my opinion that Mareep isn't all that

Well, is Ampharos losing to a lvl 40 flareon, the consensus 2nd worst eeveelution? No, even if it doesn’t OHKO, Flareon gets paralyzed from static and you get the 2 hit.

In all seriousness, like a lot of Johto Pokemon, Ampharos probably needs 20-30 points added to its BST to be truly good, but when I used it in B2W2 and sporadically in this HGSS run it came through when I needed it to. It actually saved me against Iris because I paralyzed one of her Pokemon with it and then set up with Lilligant.

1-shot Claire’s Gyrados and then paralyzed her dragonairs so I could save my team to throw at Claire’s Kingdra, who I also paralyzed and para-flinched down with Togekiss.

In all honesty it fulfills it’s function as an electric type Pokemon and I use it because I love the design but it’s not the best and that’s why I didn’t bring it to the Elite 4. And it also needs a Thunderbolt tm to be truly effective.

I’ll also say I stopped going through this thread after seeing someone bring in Typhlosion, so clearly nothing is sacred </3

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Well, is Ampharos losing to a lvl 40 flareon, the consensus 2nd worst eeveelution? No, even if it doesn’t OHKO, Flareon gets paralyzed from static and you get the 2 hit.

In all seriousness, like a lot of Johto Pokemon, Ampharos probably needs 20-30 points added to its BST to be truly good, but when I used it in B2W2 and sporadically in this HGSS run it came through when I needed it to. It actually saved me against Iris because I paralyzed one of her Pokemon with it and then set up with Lilligant.

1-shot Claire’s Gyrados and then paralyzed her dragonairs so I could save my team to throw at Claire’s Kingdra, who I also paralyzed and para-flinched down with Togekiss.

In all honesty it fulfills it’s function as an electric type Pokemon and I use it because I love the design but it’s not the best and that’s why I didn’t bring it to the Elite 4. And it also needs a Thunderbolt tm to be truly effective.

I’ll also say I stopped going through this thread after seeing someone bring in Typhlosion, so clearly nothing is sacred </3

...the fuck is the consensus worst? I thought that was Flareon?

 

[Just A Seaking]

...the fuck is the consensus worst? I thought that was Flareon?

If we're talking strictly in-game it's probably Glaceon, right? Always evolves too late by virtue of ice areas being late-game, and your patience is rewarded with an Ice type with 65 base Speed. At least the Fire Stone is usually available shortly after Flareon?

re: The thread itself: I've used Feraligatr 3 different times in HGSS and it's underperformed every single time. Agility, Swords Dance, and spamming Surf or Ice Beam with Specs have all consistently come up short. By all accounts, its diverse learnset and early evolution level paired with good base stats should set it up for success, but I find I've always found it really underwhelming. I'm not expecting it to solo or anything, but just once I would like to see it succeed in taking out one of Lance's Dragonites at least.

 

[Mad Ram]

Alakazam: I finally got access to Alakazam in HGSS this year. I was excited to use, and used it sporadically in the 2nd half of the game. It was getting trade + lucky egg xp so it was like level 38, with less EVs than usual, I didn’t take it to the Elite 4.

I was using it on the SS Aqua, and it got one shot by a Flareon using Bite. My Zam had a Modest nature so it wasn’t bulky or anything and didn’t have as many EVs as usual, but it got one shot by a SE 60 BP move from fucking Flareon… and also it had a modest nature and it couldn’t one-shot with Psybeam…

It's Alakazam. It has the defense stat of wet tissue paper. Of course it will fold easily to a mon with 130 base attack using a super effective move, even one as weak as bite.

 

[R_N]

It's Alakazam. It has the defense stat of wet tissue paper. Of course it will fold easily to a mon with 130 base attack using a super effective move, even one as weak as bite.

Also Flareon's second best stat is Special Defense (base 110!), so I'm not too surprised it survived a Psybeam.

I can't comment on zam performance otherwise, but in the vacuum of specifically this Flareon matchup I can see why it got owned.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Saying Alakazam isn't that great in HGSS? Sacrilege. Damn, I hope people come for you like they did for me when I dared to state my opinion that Mareep isn't all that

I can't even look at HGSS Mareep having played GSC for so long.

Look how they massacred my boy

If we're talking strictly in-game it's probably Glaceon, right? Always evolves too late by virtue of ice areas being late-game, and your patience is rewarded with an Ice type with 65 base Speed. At least the Fire Stone is usually available shortly after Flareon?

ABYSMAL movepool too.

Don't get me wrong, Glaceon is my favorite Eeveelution, but man, does it need a LOT to work.

But then you click Ice Beam and everything is fine.

re: The thread itself: I've used Feraligatr 3 different times in HGSS and it's underperformed every single time. Agility, Swords Dance, and spamming Surf or Ice Beam with Specs have all consistently come up short. By all accounts, its diverse learnset and early evolution level paired with good base stats should set it up for success, but I find I've always found it really underwhelming. I'm not expecting it to solo or anything, but just once I would like to see it succeed in taking out one of Lance's Dragonites at least.

HGSS is weird man. I couldn't possibly imagine Gatr underperforming in it, but I definitely believe that Budget Gyarados isn't as good as advertised. Something about it never convinced me.

 

[Basedwell]

...the fuck is the consensus worst? I thought that was Flareon?

Post PSS I think it’s Glaceon. I personally liked the guy til the Mega Bloks Eevee set. His hair looks cartoonish and weird.

If we're talking strictly in-game it's probably Glaceon, right? Always evolves too late by virtue of ice areas being late-game, and your patience is rewarded with an Ice type with 65 base Speed. At least the Fire Stone is usually available shortly after Flareon?

re: The thread itself: I've used Feraligatr 3 different times in HGSS and it's underperformed every single time. Agility, Swords Dance, and spamming Surf or Ice Beam with Specs have all consistently come up short. By all accounts, its diverse learnset and early evolution level paired with good base stats should set it up for success, but I find I've always found it really underwhelming. I'm not expecting it to solo or anything, but just once I would like to see it succeed in taking out one of Lance's Dragonites at least.

Gatr is a physical attacker. I think it’s special stat is mid to bad. I used it this game and it was fine as my Water type. It was surprisingly frail: it disappointed me in the Lance/Claire/last Team Rocket Admin fights, but it did what I needed it to.

It definitely felt like a Pokemon that’s better in theory, and I’d recommend getting another water Pokemon you like the design of since there are so many options in Johto, it felt like a slightly worse Samurott quality wise except Samurott’s in a game with way less water options

It's Alakazam. It has the defense stat of wet tissue paper. Of course it will fold easily to a mon with 130 base attack using a super effective move, even one as weak as bite.

it's flareon. never in my LIFE have i lost a Pokemon to Flareon... All I'm saying is you aren't some gamebreaking, topping the tier list Pokemon if you can't win neutral matchups like this.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

It was getting trade + lucky egg xp so it was like level 38, with less EVs than usual,

Real talk. That's the price you pay for shortcuts like this.

Alakazam's claim to fame in HGSS is having bonkers SpA and Speed in a region infested by Poison-types and a lot of mons that aren't built to deal with that kind of output. Also, you can get Specs in-game. And that's fucking stupid, but never mind that.

I know nobody wants to grind, especially in Gen 4's slow engine, but it's part of the experience. You don't get to play HGSS of all games without level issues, and if you do, that kind of thing happens.

 

[ToxicWyvern]

Post PSS I think it’s Glaceon. I personally liked the guy til the Mega Bloks Eevee set. His hair looks cartoonish and weird.


Gatr is a physical attacker. I think it’s special stat is mid to bad. I used it this game and it was fine as my Water type. It was surprisingly frail: it disappointed me in the Lance/Claire/last Team Rocket Admin fights, but it did what I needed it to.

It definitely felt like a Pokemon that’s better in theory, and I’d recommend getting another water Pokemon you like the design of since there are so many options in Johto, it felt like a slightly worse Samurott quality wise except Samurott’s in a game with way less water options


it's flareon. never in my LIFE have i lost a Pokemon to Flareon... All I'm saying is you aren't some gamebreaking, topping the tier list Pokemon if you can't win neutral matchups like this.

79 special attack is OKish for in game, though iirc Gatr doesn;t get many strong special coverage moves anyway.

As for why is doesn't seem as good in practice, I haven't played HGSS my understanding is despite Gen 4 introducing physical water moves Gatr doesn't get access to any physical STAB until very late in Johto, when you get the Waterfall HM (or level to 58 to get Aqua tail)

Compare that to Typhlosion, who despite having very sparce special coverage, for STAB it gets Lava Plume then Flamethrower fairly soon in the mid game. And can take advantage of Choice Specs.

 

[Basedwell]

Real talk. That's the price you pay for shortcuts like this.

I forgot, I caught Pokérus early on so I actually cheated karma here.

Alakazam's claim to fame in HGSS is having bonkers SpA and Speed in a region infested by Poison-types and a lot of mons that aren't built to deal with that kind of output. Also, you can get Specs in-game. And that's fucking stupid, but never mind that.

That makes sense, but I’d think with Specs a lot of things could dominate. It is one of the easiest guys to give specs to too, cuz ur obv spamming one move against 15 types.

I know nobody wants to grind, especially in Gen 4's slow engine, but it's part of the experience. You don't get to play HGSS of all games without level issues, and if you do, that kind of thing happens.

Tbh, between HGSS’s slower battles, worse vibes, and poorer available resources (for the game’s power level) made it worse than the originals. I finally had access to 2 DSs and figured I’d try to fix it, and get to use certain Pokemon I’d never been able to on cart. And it was my 2nd time playing within the last 3 months, and my 3rd in Johto overall in that time span, I am NOT grinding anymore.

It also allowed me to test what another user said when I said I found mono-type champions like Lance fun: what if u had a Froslass.

I forgot to bring in a dawn stone so I couldn’t test that one lol, but extra resources (access to tms) made the game better. A lucky egg and trade xp was overkill, but I wanted to use a wider variety than usual due to having traded in options and evolution items available.

Having some boosted xp helps in the late game, otherwise you have to grind on the Elite 4 until you’re at the proper level. But in general I do like the grinding necessary in older generations.

As for Lance, the Abamosnow with a scarf blizzarded tf out of the dragonites, but the fight itself was fine. A little on the easy side because I had a guaranteed win, but it did take me losing 4/6 Pokemon to get there. When I replay Platinum next week I’ll have to balance it better to get more challenging end game fights, but I think with Cynthia’s levels that’s easier to do.

It’s annoying when the Elite 4 levels increase by so much, it makes it impossible to have 4 consecutive good fights because by the time you beat the champion you can creampie the first few members.

 

[Heatranator]

Only pokemon that really disappointed me was Drifblim. Before I played Platinum, I was hyped to use it. It looked really cool and I thought that it would do a lot on my team.

Then I found out until gen 9 it's only special flying stab was gust... With its best physical flying stab being fly....

Yeah, it then preceded to just be mostly a HM slave with fly, that I would just sack to heal other teammates.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Tbh, between HGSS’s slower battles, worse vibes, and poorer available resources (for the game’s power level) made it worse than the originals. I finally had access to 2 DSs and figured I’d try to fix it, and get to use certain Pokemon I’d never been able to on cart. And it was my 2nd time playing within the last 3 months, and my 3rd in Johto overall in that time span, I am NOT grinding anymore.

Besides the "worse vibes", the only thing I'd add is that GSC is also elevated by Stadium 2, so you get so much more out of it.