Post your searing hot takes

gen 1 is fine in a vacuum but is missing so much qol that was introduced in later gens. no bag pockets, no registered items, you can't even see what your moves do

gen 4's major upgrade was that most pokemon were given significant learnset overhauls that kept them relevant throughout the whole game. compare gen 2 typhlosion to gen 4 typhlosion as an example

b2w2's story is a huge downgrade to bw's. it doesn't even give hugh's sister a name what the fuck??


also if gen 2 had gen 1 razor leaf then chikorita would be considered the best starter and it wouldn't even be close
 
b2w2's story is a huge downgrade to bw's. it doesn't even give hugh's sister a name what the fuck??
Okay, here's MY hot take. Hugh is an ass rival. Now, he HATES team plasma and will go out of his way to stop them and make sure they are punished. Not really bad right?



EXCEPT THAT'S ALL HE FUCKING DOES.
Like, besides the "general rival shit which every rival has to help out you instead for a few specific rivals that do the opposite", he has no other discernable characteristics other then that. Ig he has a sister???? Like, you can easily break his character into "I hate team plasma cause they took my sister's purrloin" with no other explanation needed. At the end of the game he does see the purrloin evolved into a liepard and can't really move, but at that point he has had no character growth for me to care about this interaction, its just way too late in the story (right before the ghetsis fight from what I remember) for me to change my opinion on him. Frankly, the team plasma hate gets on my nerves because he does not fucking change his stance. He doesn't do "oh, maybe some ex team plasma members aren't bad". Nope, even if multiple tell him they are sorry for what they have done to his face, he calls them all evil and storms out. Like, there is no fucking character growth.

I might replay B2W2 again just to see if I missed anything, but I genuinelly cannot get when people place him high on the rival's tier lists. He's not XY rival's bad, thank god, because he at least has something, but he ain't much better.
 
Okay, here's MY hot take. Hugh is an ass rival. Now, he HATES team plasma and will go out of his way to stop them and make sure they are punished. Not really bad right?



EXCEPT THAT'S ALL HE FUCKING DOES.
Like, besides the "general rival shit which every rival has to help out you instead for a few specific rivals that do the opposite", he has no other discernable characteristics other then that. Ig he has a sister???? Like, you can easily break his character into "I hate team plasma cause they took my sister's purrloin" with no other explanation needed. At the end of the game he does see the purrloin evolved into a liepard and can't really move, but at that point he has had no character growth for me to care about this interaction, its just way too late in the story (right before the ghetsis fight from what I remember) for me to change my opinion on him. Frankly, the team plasma hate gets on my nerves because he does not fucking change his stance. He doesn't do "oh, maybe some ex team plasma members aren't bad". Nope, even if multiple tell him they are sorry for what they have done to his face, he calls them all evil and storms out. Like, there is no fucking character growth.

I might replay B2W2 again just to see if I missed anything, but I genuinelly cannot get when people place him high on the rival's tier lists. He's not XY rival's bad, thank god, because he at least has something, but he ain't much better.
They put him high because he punches a grunt in the face, that's it.

His anger makes him fun, but his story is uninteresting and bland. He has a goal, and he succeeds, with no introspection on his motives or anything. Even despite his staredown with the Liepard, he still claims victory the next time you see him. Compared to BW's rivals, where Cheren starts with a concrete goal but drops it when he realizes he doesn't want it and Bianca starts with no goal but has self-discoveries that reveal one, Hugh's character is as flat as a pancake.
 
I would need to actually play Emerald and HGSS to make sure of this but as time goes on I find myself creeping ever closer to the demented contrarian position of "BW2 is when Pokemon games actually started to get really good"

What terminal Emma brainrot and souring on Platinum does to a mf
Why have you soured on Platinum? I know you might have mentioned it elsewhere but I'm curious.
 
single dumbest meme I've made all month:

domino effect x.PNG
 
^shining example of why you shouldn't make memes right after you wake up: just realized it wouldn't done better as just a y on the final domino

these things take time people, you gotta let it cook in your brain. don't sacrifice quality for speed (Postalations 5:63)
 
Why have you soured on Platinum? I know you might have mentioned it elsewhere but I'm curious.
 
Alright, here's another one: Krillin, Tien and Yamcha being left behind was a good thing on balance. Dragon Ball is one of the only major sci-fi franchises that has consistently kept the focus on the cool aliens and robots ever since spacefaring was introduced into the narrative. Star Wars, Star Trek, the big 2 comic publishers etc. have way, WAY too many human characters on any given protagonist lineup. The Z Fighters and the Ghost crew from Star Wars Rebels should unironically be the benchmark for human/alien/robot balance
 
Black/White's story was incredibly overrated and honestly kind of bad.

imo black/white 1/2 is >>>>
no pokemon game is perfect and we know that but it's contratrion to say gen 5 is bad. its one of their best gens lol.
that said i put gen 7 up there as well - your energy give the people liking Megas (and even imo theres a reason it's coming back, like.... tf took so long? LOOOL) but most saying Gen 6 was too easy lol
and this is coming from someone old enough to remember gen 1 coming to America (id go 5>7>4>3>1>2>6>8>9) lol.
 
imo black/white 1/2 is >>>>
no pokemon game is perfect and we know that but it's contratrion to say gen 5 is bad. its one of their best gens lol.
that said i put gen 7 up there as well - your energy give the people liking Megas (and even imo theres a reason it's coming back, like.... tf took so long? LOOOL) but most saying Gen 6 was too easy lol
and this is coming from someone old enough to remember gen 1 coming to America (id go 5>7>4>3>1>2>6>8>9) lol.
"Your hot take in the hot takes thread is just being a contrarian. The real answers are (ice-cold default takes and rankings from casual smogon)" is kind of frustrating. I'll admit it's more novel and interesting from someone who isn't in the average smogon age range. But overall we've heard this before. Also, like, megas and overall gen ratings, aren't super relevant to BW's story in particular. The group that dislikes BW's story – me included – tends to view it like this: while BW's story looks good at first blush to many people, and has some things it does well, the story gets worse when you examine it harder and more thoroughly.

For additional perspective, here is one common critiques about BW's story. There are others (vagueness about truth and ideals, flat-character Ghetsis, kissing up to the player), but this is probably the most fundamental.

*This is only about BW1, not B2W2, to be clear, because that's all DR talked about. I'm not considering or acknowledging anything about B2W2.

The Team Plasma Motivations Critique

Background


Through Team Plasma, the game introduces an interesting idea. What if the status quo of Pokemon – how the player, player character, and other friendly characters treat Pokemon – is wrong?

Normally, we as players, and Game Freak too, don't think too hard the ethics of how we treat Pokemon in the games. We have ideas about friendship and bonding, and there are little excuses and pretenses for things like captures and battles, but we don't really think hard about whether we're justified in capturing Pokemon, holding onto them, and using them to battle.

And that is okay. Not every game needs to pull out the microscope to examine its own in-universe ethical foundations. We can say that some Pokemon are intelligent, sapient creatures, and we can still stuff them in balls, abandon them in PC slots, or trade them away as if they're unfeeling property. That hypocrisy isn't a big deal because it's a video game. We're here to have fun, and the Pokemon aren't real, so it's not a big deal if people do things that would hurt their feelings, if they had been real.

What BW Does and Doesn't Do

However, BW seems like it isn't satisfied with this casual hypocrisy. The hypocrisy didn't require an answer, but GF going out of their way to address it, to challenge their past worlds and ethics, to think harder about their worldbuilding and maybe even create a new society with stronger foundation, is really interesting. Team Plasma and N ask, if Pokemon are these sapient creatures whose feelings and thoughts we care about, shouldn't they be allowed to make their own choices?. It seems plausible. If a Pokemon is as smart as humans, shouldn't we ask them if they want to battle with us instead of taking them as a given? If they are as smart as animals, can they reasonably consent to these painful battles?

This idea naturally leads into a really powerful message. We as players / player characters, and other good and friendly characters, didn't think at all about how we mistreated and abused these members of society. We assumed the status quo was fine because, well, everyone said it was, and we loved our subservient little pets/human equivalents/whatever. However, relations are not fine actually! We need to rise up and challenge the status quo to make a fair society for everyone, where Pokemon are treated with respect and dignity. It's especially powerful because Game Freak is swallowing the hard pill of critiquing themselves here and their past work, overturning their own status quo of game worlds, making the message a lot more powerful. Similarly, they're forcing the player to actually question their past and present actions, which takes courage.

However, even though the game raised this idea, it's not very interested in actually thinking through it further, or providing a worthwhile answer to the question. Turns out the people who brought up this interesting and valid ethical question, who challenged Game Freak's methodology, are actually... evil guys!! Yeah! And their poor, deluded flunkies who were misled into believing the group cared about anything. And then... because Team Plasma is actually evil... we don't need to treat their legitimate ethical question seriously! The status quo is fine! Trust us! Now you need to save that status quo from these evil guys!

A Note on N
The primary challenge to my above critique, where I say GF is not interested in thinking through, answering, or validating its Pokemon ethical dilemma, is N. N is a beloved character who believes and says many pro-Plasma things, seemingly giving credibility to the dilemma and fleshing him out. Does he actually do these things?

Not... really?

First, he believes Team Plasma points in the first place because he was a poor, deluded flunky. He arrived at the position that Pokemon are mistreated because a pure evil person deceived him into believing this. Through Ghetsis's manipulation, we are shown direct examples of Pokemon being mistreated by humans, proving that it can happen, but this isn't new to BW. Lots of Pokemon villains mistreat Pokemon across previous games. I guess you could say that, since these Pokemon weren't mistreated by dedicated Villain Teams ™, the game could be subtly implying that Pokemon mistreatment is less of an exception to the norm done by dedicated evil villains, casting some doubt on the status quo, but I think that is stretching a bit far.

As the game goes on, he increasingly questions this Team Plasma position, increasingly drifting towards the status-quo position that Pokemon-human interaction is broadly good and shouldn't be destroyed. To the game's credit, he does not entirely abandon it and go all-in on the status quo. After his final defeat, he says that both you and him could be correct, which like, yeah, sure, that is true enough. There are some valuable things and awful things about the Pokemon-human status quo. However, if one claims that "The game uses N to seriously interrogate the status quo", the chosen method of "drifting away from propaganda to a 50/50 position, with potentially more shifting towards the status quo later" is a very unconvincing and wishy-washy way to send that message. In other words, even the most credible challenge to the status quo ends up going "Player, agent of the status quo, you might be right alongside me." And then he's gone.

Fundamentally, the people who mistreated Pokemon for N to receive, they are treated as aberrant exceptions. The Pokemon-human status quo is broadly depicted as good, despite having some exceptions. Its primary agent – you, the player – beats the other side into submission, enforcing a fundamentally unchanged status quo on the world. Indeed, this unchallenged reality is what we see in future Pokemon games. I don't know how the game's primary viewpoint on the status quo can be anything other than supportive, and that's the best information we get to answering the dilemma.

Final Thoughts
As I said before, Game Freak didn't need to address this hypocritical status quo situation. But bringing it up, just to actively refuse to give it a good answer, going out of their way to build up a status quo player as good and victorious, is one hell of a cop-out. They ignore the powerful implicit message to improve the status quo. Did they bring this dilemma up so people would think "Wow, we're dealing with serious issues!! Cool!!" until they slowly realize, surprise, GF isn't going to deal with this issue beyond the shallowest surface level? Is it a lame defense against the tiny minority that complains about Pokemon ethics, to say "actually we made you into the evil dictator wojack, and even your husbando is turning toward our side"? I don't know. In the end, the Pokemon ethics stuff is mostly a waste of time, a replaceable filler excuse for the Evil Guys to once again do their Evil Guy routine.

Shaun has a great video on Harry Potter that talks about how works of fiction can deal with potential societal inequality. One especially great part starts around 1:19:00. Here, he talks about another story where the protagonist initially accepts an unequal status quo. I'm going to contrast that story with BW.

In Terry Pratchett's (Discworld) Snuff, goblins are sapient but treated as inferiors in society. They internalize this status, such that they don't resist when people kidnap them to do manual labor. The protagonist, basically a police chief, even visits a pub called the "Goblin's Head" which has an actual stuffed goblin head mounted on the wall. Pretty fucked up.

If this story was told like BW, the villain would take this atrocity as an excuse to do other atrocities. The protagonist would stop the villain, and then the world would return to normal... including the general societal inferiority of the goblins.

In Snuff, the protagonists originally doesn't think much about the pub, because goblin inferiority is normalized. But after he spends some time with goblins, he grows to understand them as sapient creatures that should be equal with everyone else. And then he remembers the Goblin's Head. He thinks, "Someone is going to burn." Among other bigger-picture things, he commands the pub owner to remove the head, or else he'll burn down the building.

One of these is written with more heart than the other.
 
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i said this in one of the orange island threads, but bws plot feels like a 10 year late takedown of "cockfighting" discussions and peta arguments that came from the peak of pokemania. if you think pokemon fights are evil and bad youre stupid evil and bad. #pwned

even without that cynical take, idk why they made that be the plot: its a game for children, you can handwave most of this stuff as being a game that wants you to play and have fun more than being a super realistic monster taming sim, its fine. just say pc boxes are epic resorts your pokemon chill in and never go hungry. pokemon does better as a plot when it focus on individuals than world wide concepts, which is a bit of a shame because i am more of a worldbuilder than character fan, but alas
 
Ultimate is a game where my perception of it has decreased significantly. I cannot look at it the same way I did when I was a wee 6th grader at E3 2018.
Painfully trash character balancing: literally look at the DLC characters to the original 26. The difference is like comparing a 2025 Cybertruck to the 1890s Ford Model T. The kits for the smash 5 newcomers range from zoner hell [belmonts/Banjo] to basically being the most broken characters of all time (steve/Kazuya/pyra). With K. Rool, IDK what they were going for. Turns out stuffing a bunch of dkc refs in 1 kit means nothing if the moves don't compliment eachother. Back in the first 3 smash games, characters didn't need that many refs to fill their kit. That's why I find using the Melee brawl 64 characters more fun to use, (with some exceptions, hero is pretty fun. Just personal bias)
Let's see. Talking about the online is a dead horse topic. Hmmmm would I rather play against Steve 5 times and lose or play with items against a child kirby main? Your choice... omfg game has been out for 6 years and still lacks a way to separate item battles from non item battles.
WOL is boring and I especially didn't appreciate how they made an opening cutscene that teased us into thinking we were going to get a subspace like story.
LIKE AT THAT POINT WHY EVEN MAKE A CINEMATIC WHEN IT MEANS FUCKING NOTHING GRAAAGH
I guess the game is fine when you play with friends, but that's about it. Part of my hatred for smash comes with the general repugnance for the smash community as a whole. Those people outrank any other fighting game community in general STANK!
 
Painfully trash character balancing

its a shame because even with its usual smash balance jank, base ult is actually really fun and a lot of patches made many characters more viable, especially for a roster of that size. and despite joker being a bit wild when invested in, the first pass was actually not inflating the power creep of the game too much. but then smash pass released and 4 out of 5 characters were completely stupid and made the game go into unbalanced hell
 
The funniest thing about BW's storyline is it never actually challenges the idea that owning sentient creatures and forcing them to dogfight is wrong. N finds a single trainer (you) who doesn't mistreat their Pokemon, then loses to them in a dogfight and decides that actually he must be wrong after all. Might makes right is the charitable interpretation of these events.
 
Nintendo's voice chat solution is literally fine and I don't get why people are talking about the Switch 2 "getting voice chat".

Because it literally just has it. In third-party games like Fortnite, or even titles like Pokemon Unite, you can just plug in a headset to the Switch and you can voice chat. It exists. They just don't do it for their first-party titles and don't promote it because Nintendo doesn't like voice chat for their games.

(and for the record, I cannot think of a single game where open mic voice chat with strangers is a good thing. most people voice chat in Discord for 90% of games anyways, and I actually am glad games like Splatoon don't have native voice chat with strangers lol)
 
The difference is like comparing a 2025 Cybertruck to the 1890s Ford Model T.
I genuinely can't tell which of those is supposed to be better and which one is worse. The Model T is real old, sure, but the Cybertruck has so many issues it comes off as like an order of magnitude worse than any other car I have seen produced in my lifetime.
 
I genuinely can't tell which of those is supposed to be better and which one is worse. The Model T is real old, sure, but the Cybertruck has so many issues it comes off as like an order of magnitude worse than any other car I have seen produced in my lifetime.
I think it's a good comparison because one is old, reliable and historically significant, and the other is gimmicky, needlessly overpowered and a mess of design and engineering
 
"Your hot take in the hot takes thread is just being a contrarian. The real answers are (ice-cold default takes and rankings from casual smogon)" is kind of frustrating. I'll admit it's more novel and interesting from someone who isn't in the average smogon age range. But overall we've heard this before. Also, like, megas and overall gen ratings, aren't super relevant to BW's story in particular. The group that dislikes BW's story – me included – tends to view it like this: while BW's story looks good at first blush to many people, and has some things it does well, the story gets worse when you examine it harder and more thoroughly.

For additional perspective, here is one common critiques about BW's story. There are others (vagueness about truth and ideals, flat-character Ghetsis, kissing up to the player), but this is probably the most fundamental.

*This is only about BW1, not B2W2, to be clear, because that's all DR talked about. I'm not considering or acknowledging anything about B2W2.

The Team Plasma Motivations Critique

Background


Through Team Plasma, the game introduces an interesting idea. What if the status quo of Pokemon – how the player, player character, and other friendly characters treat Pokemon – is wrong?

Normally, we as players, and Game Freak too, don't think too hard the ethics of how we treat Pokemon in the games. We have ideas about friendship and bonding, and there are little excuses and pretenses for things like captures and battles, but we don't really think hard about whether we're justified in capturing Pokemon, holding onto them, and using them to battle.

And that is okay. Not every game needs to pull out the microscope to examine its own in-universe ethical foundations. We can say that some Pokemon are intelligent, sapient creatures, and we can still stuff them in balls, abandon them in PC slots, or trade them away as if they're unfeeling property. That hypocrisy isn't a big deal because it's a video game. We're here to have fun, and the Pokemon aren't real, so it's not a big deal if people do things that would hurt their feelings, if they had been real.

What BW Does and Doesn't Do

However, BW seems like it isn't satisfied with this casual hypocrisy. The hypocrisy didn't require an answer, but GF going out of their way to address it, to challenge their past worlds and ethics, to think harder about their worldbuilding and maybe even create a new society with stronger foundation, is really interesting. Team Plasma and N ask, if Pokemon are these sapient creatures whose feelings and thoughts we care about, shouldn't they be allowed to make their own choices?. It seems plausible. If a Pokemon is as smart as humans, shouldn't we ask them if they want to battle with us instead of taking them as a given? If they are as smart as animals, can they reasonably consent to these painful battles?

This idea naturally leads into a really powerful message. We as players / player characters, and other good and friendly characters, didn't think at all about how we mistreated and abused these members of society. We assumed the status quo was fine because, well, everyone said it was, and we loved our subservient little pets/human equivalents/whatever. However, relations are not fine actually! We need to rise up and challenge the status quo to make a fair society for everyone, where Pokemon are treated with respect and dignity. It's especially powerful because Game Freak is swallowing the hard pill of critiquing themselves here and their past work, overturning their own status quo of game worlds, making the message a lot more powerful. Similarly, they're forcing the player to actually question their past and present actions, which takes courage.

However, even though the game raised this idea, it's not very interested in actually thinking through it further, or providing a worthwhile answer to the question. Turns out the people who brought up this interesting and valid ethical question, who challenged Game Freak's methodology, are actually... evil guys!! Yeah! And their poor, deluded flunkies who were misled into believing the group cared about anything. And then... because Team Plasma is actually evil... we don't need to treat their legitimate ethical question seriously! The status quo is fine! Trust us! Now you need to save that status quo from these evil guys!

A Note on N
The primary challenge to my above critique, where I say GF is not interested in thinking through, answering, or validating its Pokemon ethical dilemma, is N. N is a beloved character who believes and says many pro-Plasma things, seemingly giving credibility to the dilemma and fleshing him out. Does he actually do these things?

Not... really?

First, he believes Team Plasma points in the first place because he was a poor, deluded flunky. He arrived at the position that Pokemon are mistreated because a pure evil person deceived him into believing this. Through Ghetsis's manipulation, we are shown direct examples of Pokemon being mistreated by humans, proving that it can happen, but this isn't new to BW. Lots of Pokemon villains mistreat Pokemon across previous games. I guess you could say that, since these Pokemon weren't mistreated by dedicated Villain Teams ™, the game could be subtly implying that Pokemon mistreatment is less of an exception to the norm done by dedicated evil villains, casting some doubt on the status quo, but I think that is stretching a bit far.

As the game goes on, he increasingly questions this Team Plasma position, increasingly drifting towards the status-quo position that Pokemon-human interaction is broadly good and shouldn't be destroyed. To the game's credit, he does not entirely abandon it and go all-in on the status quo. After his final defeat, he says that both you and him could be correct, which like, yeah, sure, that is true enough. There are some valuable things and awful things about the Pokemon-human status quo. However, if one claims that "The game uses N to seriously interrogate the status quo", the chosen method of "drifting away from propaganda to a 50/50 position, with potentially more shifting towards the status quo later" is a very unconvincing and wishy-washy way to send that message. In other words, even the most credible challenge to the status quo ends up going "Player, agent of the status quo, you might be right alongside me." And then he's gone.

Fundamentally, the people who mistreated Pokemon for N to receive, they are treated as aberrant exceptions. The Pokemon-human status quo is broadly depicted as good, despite having some exceptions. Its primary agent – you, the player – beats the other side into submission, enforcing a fundamentally unchanged status quo on the world. Indeed, this unchallenged reality is what we see in future Pokemon games. I don't know how the game's primary viewpoint on the status quo can be anything other than supportive, and that's the best information we get to answering the dilemma.

Final Thoughts
As I said before, Game Freak didn't need to address this hypocritical status quo situation. But bringing it up, just to actively refuse to give it a good answer, going out of their way to build up a status quo player as good and victorious, is one hell of a cop-out. They ignore the powerful implicit message to improve the status quo. Did they bring this dilemma up so people would think "Wow, we're dealing with serious issues!! Cool!!" until they slowly realize, surprise, GF isn't going to deal with this issue beyond the shallowest surface level? Is it a lame defense against the tiny minority that complains about Pokemon ethics, to say "actually we made you into the evil dictator wojack, and even your husbando is turning toward our side"? I don't know. In the end, the Pokemon ethics stuff is mostly a waste of time, a replaceable filler excuse for the Evil Guys to once again do their Evil Guy routine.

Shaun has a great video on Harry Potter that talks about how works of fiction can deal with potential societal inequality. One especially great part starts around 1:19:00. Here, he talks about another story where the protagonist initially accepts an unequal status quo. I'm going to contrast that story with BW.

In Terry Pratchett's (Discworld) Snuff, goblins are sapient but treated as inferiors in society. They internalize this status, such that they don't resist when people kidnap them to do manual labor. The protagonist, basically a police chief, even visits a pub called the "Goblin's Head" which has an actual stuffed goblin head mounted on the wall. Pretty fucked up.

If this story was told like BW, the villain would take this atrocity as an excuse to do other atrocities. The protagonist would stop the villain, and then the world would return to normal... including the general societal inferiority of the goblins.

In Snuff, the protagonists originally doesn't think much about the pub, because goblin inferiority is normalized. But after he spends some time with goblins, he grows to understand them as sapient creatures that should be equal with everyone else. And then he remembers the Goblin's Head. He thinks, "Someone is going to burn." Among other bigger-picture things, he commands the pub owner to remove the head, or else he'll burn down the building.

One of these is written with more heart than the other.

I aint on here enough to have a "smogon take" lol. I just come, spew my nonsense and leave, if people agree or disagree we can have discourse. There is nothing about what I like or think about in the pokemon sense of the world that comes from here haha.

That said you had a well thought out breakdown and I enjoyed reading so. I still will say I enjoy 5 most of all the gens, but hell there's people who think gen 2 is the best and while I think it's a great game I always ask em "Why did they essentially not bother with any storyline when you go to Kanto?" lol
we all like what we like and games in general all have "-isms/quirks/plot holes"
I was joking with my buddy at work since we like RPGs and action games: "How do they explain me being able to slap this dude around 20-30+ times with -insert weapon- before he dies but theres no blood not to mention he dont die after the 2nd or 3rd blow?" lol

I guess my point is games like pokemon probably never can be 100% explained logically, rationally, and even "ethically" if we tried to apply modern/realistic sensabilities.

i'm honestly amazed that the cybertruck ended up in production after its trainwreck of a reveal

not sure if that's a hot take since i know what elon is like

I don't even understand the appeal outside vanity/"flexing" for the Cybertruck, a Tesla least looks decent, Cybertruck looks like a knockoff toy car you'd get as a party favor leaving a bday when you were 5.
 
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