Yeah I agree a good bit for the national dex it does feel like it would be overly complicated with nat dex
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the weight of a Pokemon would determine the stab move of that Pokemon BP
I'm just going to tentatively say this OM idea is straight up not doable, custom actions in-game are in general a no-go
The Wheel
Each Pokemon's fourth move (you know, in terms of moveslots, not the fourth time it uses a move) causes it to switch to the next Pokemon in party order and have that Pokemon use the move instead. Each Pokemon's first move causes it to switch to the previous Pokemon in party order and have that Pokemon use the move instead.
Each Pokemon's fourth move (you know, in terms of moveslots, not the fourth time it uses a move) causes it to switch to the next Pokemon in party order and have that Pokemon use the move instead. Each Pokemon's first move causes it to switch to the previous Pokemon in party order and have that Pokemon use the move instead.
-This happens at the speed + priority of the original Pokemon.
-The party order naturally changes as Pokemon are KOed: if the order of part of your team is Gliscor->Dragonite->Raging Bolt, and Dragonite gets KOed, the move in Gliscor's fourth moveslot now passes to Raging Bolt.
-No switching occurs when you're on your last Pokemon - it just uses the move normally.
-Move-limiting effects such as Taunt apply both to passing moves and receiving moves. For example, a Taunted Pecharunt with Recover in its fourth moveslot still cannot click that Recover. On the other side of things, if you pass a Recover to an Assault Vest Pokemon, the move fails.
-I suppose if you passed anything into a Choice item user, it would have to start Struggling afterward, unless it also knew the move itself.
Mixed attackers seem good, as they can receive both physical and special attacks and use them effectively. Or you just make your whole team one category of attacker so your passed attacks are always compatible. Or maybe passed attacks aren't good at all, and the meta is to just pass universally helpful status moves.
Tacking on a free switch is a very very good buff to a lot of things, but on the other hand, since you only have one option to pivot to with these moves, they lose much of the unpredictability that makes normal switching and pivoting good: the opponent knows exactly what you can pivot to with these moves and can play around that.
Notable threats (and other stuff I found interesting)
Hazards and HDB: Of course hazards will be huge in a meta with so much switching.
Regenerator: Also duh. Might be good candidates to pass recovery moves to a chosen ally.
Boosting moves: Every Swords Dance (etc.) comes with an immediate Baton Pass. This is of course extremely powerful. On the other hand, the Pokemon you passed the boosts to only gets to use that boost on two of its moves. A Dragonite with an instant +2 Attack is very scary, but with only 1 coverage move to go with its E-Speed it's easier to wall.
Substitute: Shed Tail but better but worse. Notable downsides are that the thing you send in can't really use the Sub to do setup (if 1 of your 2 ordinary moves is Swords Dance, you only have one attack to use that +2 Attack on) and that, like all of these modified moves, the opponent knows exactly what you can send a Sub to. Still, a completely safe switch is a very potent thing.
Rapid Spin: I just think it's cool that you can clear hazards while sending the +1 spe to a better attacker next to the Spinner.
Boomburst: Pass it to Liquid Voice Primarina and rejoice. (I say 'pass' a lot but let me reiterate that it doesn't get the move added to its moveset, it only uses it once)
Gigaton Hammer: Imagine passing this to Kingambit
Skill Swap: It's a bit gimmicky but you can pass Skill Swap to Slaking, that's probably something.
Prankster: This doesn't mean much but you can use Prankster moves on dark-types again by passing to a non-Prankster user at +1 priority and having them use the move. Thought that was cool.
Potential bans
Potential restrictions (cannot be in slots 1 or 4)
Protect clones: Since each Pokemon has a different Protect count, if you put Protect as a 1st or 4th move on everything you can keep Protect up forever.
Substitute
No Retreat, Clangorous Soul, Belly Drum
Tail Glow, probably? Maybe Quiver and Victory Dance?
Gigaton Hammer probably belongs here actually, maybe Boomburst too?
Questions
Would making only the fourth move pass (you can only pass forward in party order) make for a healthier meta?
Is passing a boosting move still too strong?
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Shed Tail was banned in multiple metas if I remember correctly, so Substitute should at least be on the watchlist.The Wheel
Each Pokemon's fourth move (you know, in terms of moveslots, not the fourth time it uses a move) causes it to switch to the next Pokemon in party order and have that Pokemon use the move instead. Each Pokemon's first move causes it to switch to the previous Pokemon in party order and have that Pokemon use the move instead.
-This happens at the speed + priority of the original Pokemon.
-The party order naturally changes as Pokemon are KOed: if the order of part of your team is Gliscor->Dragonite->Raging Bolt, and Dragonite gets KOed, the move in Gliscor's fourth moveslot now passes to Raging Bolt.
-No switching occurs when you're on your last Pokemon - it just uses the move normally.
-Move-limiting effects such as Taunt apply both to passing moves and receiving moves. For example, a Taunted Pecharunt with Recover in its fourth moveslot still cannot click that Recover. On the other side of things, if you pass a Recover to an Assault Vest Pokemon, the move fails.
-I suppose if you passed anything into a Choice item user, it would have to start Struggling afterward, unless it also knew the move itself.
Mixed attackers seem good, as they can receive both physical and special attacks and use them effectively. Or you just make your whole team one category of attacker so your passed attacks are always compatible. Or maybe passed attacks aren't good at all, and the meta is to just pass universally helpful status moves.
Tacking on a free switch is a very very good buff to a lot of things, but on the other hand, since you only have one option to pivot to with these moves, they lose much of the unpredictability that makes normal switching and pivoting good: the opponent knows exactly what you can pivot to with these moves and can play around that.
Notable threats (and other stuff I found interesting)
Hazards and HDB: Of course hazards will be huge in a meta with so much switching.
Regenerator: Also duh. Might be good candidates to pass recovery moves to a chosen ally.
Boosting moves: Every Swords Dance (etc.) comes with an immediate Baton Pass. This is of course extremely powerful. On the other hand, the Pokemon you passed the boosts to only gets to use that boost on two of its moves. A Dragonite with an instant +2 Attack is very scary, but with only 1 coverage move to go with its E-Speed it's easier to wall.
Substitute: Shed Tail but better but worse. Notable downsides are that the thing you send in can't really use the Sub to do setup (if 1 of your 2 ordinary moves is Swords Dance, you only have one attack to use that +2 Attack on) and that, like all of these modified moves, the opponent knows exactly what you can send a Sub to. Still, a completely safe switch is a very potent thing.
Rapid Spin: I just think it's cool that you can clear hazards while sending the +1 spe to a better attacker next to the Spinner.
Boomburst: Pass it to Liquid Voice Primarina and rejoice. (I say 'pass' a lot but let me reiterate that it doesn't get the move added to its moveset, it only uses it once)
Gigaton Hammer: Imagine passing this to Kingambit
Skill Swap: It's a bit gimmicky but you can pass Skill Swap to Slaking, that's probably something.
Prankster: This doesn't mean much but you can use Prankster moves on dark-types now by passing to a non-Prankster user at +1 priority and having them use the move. Thought that was cool.
Potential bans
Potential restrictions (cannot be in slots 1 or 4)
Protect clones: Since each Pokemon has a different Protect count, if you put Protect as a 1st or 4th move on everything you can keep Protect up forever.Dragapult stonksThis would of course be centralizing to a ridiculous degree.
Tail Glow, probably? Maybe Quiver and Victory Dance?
Gigaton Hammer probably belongs here actually, maybe Boomburst too?
Questions
Would making only the fourth move pass (you can only pass forward in party order) make for a healthier meta?
Is passing a boosting move still too strong?
Does the incoming mon attack before or after being affected by hazards?
How does Focus Punch work? What about Solar Beam?
Dusk Mage Necrozma
Partial immunity moves (Fly, Dig, Dive) would probably also be have to be illegal in the 1st or 4th slots, for the same reason as Protect.
How would pivot moves like U-Turn work? They would be used by the incoming mon and then pivot out to a second mon on the same turn?
VoltTurn would be absolutely silly if that were the case.
Partial immunity moves (Fly, Dig, Dive) would probably also be have to be illegal in the 1st or 4th slots, for the same reason as Protect.
How would pivot moves like U-Turn work? They would be used by the incoming mon and then pivot out to a second mon on the same turn?
VoltTurn would be absolutely silly if that were the case.
After.
Good catches. I'd say the sender tightens its focus (and can be interrupted) at start of turn then swaps to the receiver at negative priority for the actual hit, as that's when the move is actually used. Two-turn moves should swap to charge them, as the move is clearly used then. Like if you were to call Solar Beam with Metronome, the receiver still gets to fire the Solar Beam next turn, even though it doesn't itself know the move.
How so? The receiver will still have to use the move's second turn as if it was its own move - it can't just receive Fly, fly up, then send its own Fly to an ally without doing the damaging turn.
Yes. I mean VoltTurn doesn't directly benefit from swapping something in for a split second - it's not like its goal is just "switch as many times as possible" - but you can trigger Regenerator for free or offload U-Turn damage from stuff like Corviknight to stuff like Kingambit.
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These should be fine iirc since they are one time boosts, but things like No Retreat or Clangorous Soul that are already very broken with even a single boost should probably be restricted (imagine passing Kyurem a Clang soul, or Ceruledge a downsideless no retreat)
zacian is now on baton pass teams as a passer
Imagine passing a Fillet Away boost to something that could actually use it- if you Fillet swap into something like hawlucha with a sitrus Berry you now have +2 attack unburden STAB acrobatics nuke. Enjoy.The Wheel
Each Pokemon's fourth move (you know, in terms of moveslots, not the fourth time it uses a move) causes it to switch to the next Pokemon in party order and have that Pokemon use the move instead. Each Pokemon's first move causes it to switch to the previous Pokemon in party order and have that Pokemon use the move instead.
-This happens at the speed + priority of the original Pokemon.
-The party order naturally changes as Pokemon are KOed: if the order of part of your team is Gliscor->Dragonite->Raging Bolt, and Dragonite gets KOed, the move in Gliscor's fourth moveslot now passes to Raging Bolt.
-No switching occurs when you're on your last Pokemon - it just uses the move normally.
-Move-limiting effects such as Taunt apply both to passing moves and receiving moves. For example, a Taunted Pecharunt with Recover in its fourth moveslot still cannot click that Recover. On the other side of things, if you pass a Recover to an Assault Vest Pokemon, the move fails.
-I suppose if you passed anything into a Choice item user, it would have to start Struggling afterward, unless it also knew the move itself.
Mixed attackers seem good, as they can receive both physical and special attacks and use them effectively. Or you just make your whole team one category of attacker so your passed attacks are always compatible. Or maybe passed attacks aren't good at all, and the meta is to just pass universally helpful status moves.
Tacking on a free switch is a very very good buff to a lot of things, but on the other hand, since you only have one option to pivot to with these moves, they lose much of the unpredictability that makes normal switching and pivoting good: the opponent knows exactly what you can pivot to with these moves and can play around that.
Notable threats (and other stuff I found interesting)
Hazards and HDB: Of course hazards will be huge in a meta with so much switching.
Regenerator: Also duh. Might be good candidates to pass recovery moves to a chosen ally.
Boosting moves: Every Swords Dance (etc.) comes with an immediate Baton Pass. This is of course extremely powerful. On the other hand, the Pokemon you passed the boosts to only gets to use that boost on two of its moves. A Dragonite with an instant +2 Attack is very scary, but with only 1 coverage move to go with its E-Speed it's easier to wall.
Substitute: Shed Tail but better but worse. Notable downsides are that the thing you send in can't really use the Sub to do setup (if 1 of your 2 ordinary moves is Swords Dance, you only have one attack to use that +2 Attack on) and that, like all of these modified moves, the opponent knows exactly what you can send a Sub to. Still, a completely safe switch is a very potent thing.
Rapid Spin: I just think it's cool that you can clear hazards while sending the +1 spe to a better attacker next to the Spinner.
Boomburst: Pass it to Liquid Voice Primarina and rejoice. (I say 'pass' a lot but let me reiterate that it doesn't get the move added to its moveset, it only uses it once)
Gigaton Hammer: Imagine passing this to Kingambit
Skill Swap: It's a bit gimmicky but you can pass Skill Swap to Slaking, that's probably something.
Prankster: This doesn't mean much but you can use Prankster moves on dark-types again by passing to a non-Prankster user at +1 priority and having them use the move. Thought that was cool.
Potential bans
Potential restrictions (cannot be in slots 1 or 4)
Protect clones: Since each Pokemon has a different Protect count, if you put Protect as a 1st or 4th move on everything you can keep Protect up forever.Dragapult stonksThis would of course be centralizing to a ridiculous degree.
Shed Tail
No Retreat, Clangorous Soul, Belly Drum
Tail Glow, probably? Maybe Quiver and Victory Dance?
Gigaton Hammer probably belongs here actually, maybe Boomburst too?
Questions
Would making only the fourth move pass (you can only pass forward in party order) make for a healthier meta?
Is passing a boosting move still too strong?
Or, how about sending flower trick to hustle Flapple or Hisuian liligant? That would be quite OP, since the attacks boost from hustle has the drawback of lowered accuracy, but flower trick never misses ( yes I know it's a one time move but it STAB flower trick on something like those would be insane)
On the topic of hustle, why not give gravity to
life orb hustle grav apple flapple?
Gravity makes Grav apple very strong, gravity neutralises the accuracy issue of hustle, but keeps the power benefit. Idk why flapple doesn't learn gravity, but now we can have the 'Isacc Newton Special'
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Here is an idea for an OM I've had since playing LA- Mastery
In LA, mastery moves can be used in strong/agile style, to either strengthen the power and accuracy of a move but be slower or weaken the power of a move but be faster.
Because it usually would be impossible to code, this is how Mastery would work-
The first move slot is the one you have mastery on, so it's not too broken.
Strong style moves give it 10 more base power and accuracy but lowers your speed.
Agile style reverses the power and speed effects.
Bans- All Ubers Pokemon
Moves- Shed tail, last respects, baton pass
Abilities- Moody, Shadow tag, arena trap.
Sleep clause
Evasion abilities clause
Evasion moves clause
Evasion items clause
OHKO clause.
Threats- Extreme Speed, Trick Room, Boomburst, Gyro ball (with strong styles nerf buffing it)
Example sets-
Dragonite Choice Band
Multiscale/Inner focus (depends on meta)
Tera normal
-Extreme Speed
-Ice Spinner
-Earthquake
-Outrage
Raging Bolt Leftovers
Protosynthesis
Tera Fairy
-Thunderclap
-Thunderbolt
-Draco Meteor/ Dragon Pulse
-Calm mind
Tinkaton Life Orb
Mold breaker
Tera Steel/Ground
-Gigaton hammer
-Play rough
-Sword's dance
-*Either a support move, coverage, or tera ground tera blast*
Kommo-o Throat spray
Soundproof (Ability doesn't matter much though)
Tera Steel
- Clangorous soul
-Boomburst
-Clanging scales
-Flash cannon/ Aura sphere
In LA, mastery moves can be used in strong/agile style, to either strengthen the power and accuracy of a move but be slower or weaken the power of a move but be faster.
Because it usually would be impossible to code, this is how Mastery would work-
The first move slot is the one you have mastery on, so it's not too broken.
Strong style moves give it 10 more base power and accuracy but lowers your speed.
Agile style reverses the power and speed effects.
Bans- All Ubers Pokemon
Moves- Shed tail, last respects, baton pass
Abilities- Moody, Shadow tag, arena trap.
Sleep clause
Evasion abilities clause
Evasion moves clause
Evasion items clause
OHKO clause.
Threats- Extreme Speed, Trick Room, Boomburst, Gyro ball (with strong styles nerf buffing it)
Example sets-
Dragonite Choice Band
Multiscale/Inner focus (depends on meta)
Tera normal
-Extreme Speed
-Ice Spinner
-Earthquake
-Outrage
Raging Bolt Leftovers
Protosynthesis
Tera Fairy
-Thunderclap
-Thunderbolt
-Draco Meteor/ Dragon Pulse
-Calm mind
Tinkaton Life Orb
Mold breaker
Tera Steel/Ground
-Gigaton hammer
-Play rough
-Sword's dance
-*Either a support move, coverage, or tera ground tera blast*
Kommo-o Throat spray
Soundproof (Ability doesn't matter much though)
Tera Steel
- Clangorous soul
-Boomburst
-Clanging scales
-Flash cannon/ Aura sphere
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average teams
All of your pokèmon have the same base stats, each being set to its average over the whole team (base HP of your mons is the average original base HP of your team and so on)
It could generate interesting dynamics:
- teams are encouraged to focus on particular stats
- pokèmon with high BST total likely get their stats lowered but boost their teammates
- pokèmon with low BST and good typing/ability/movepool can become way stronger but you can't stack too many of them
- trick room and other speed control options are likely to become way more viable
On the other hand, sharing speed means one team always outspeeds the other (except for scarfs/abilities), and that could be way too punishing (expecially for offense vs offense), so speed could maybe be left out of this with all pokèmon retaining their original one. What do you think about it?
OU based looks better, but uber based could be interesting too (4-5 ubers + 1-2 underdogs that get almost ubers stats)
(I don't know if this is already submitted, is there a list of all existing metagames somewhere?)
All of your pokèmon have the same base stats, each being set to its average over the whole team (base HP of your mons is the average original base HP of your team and so on)
It could generate interesting dynamics:
- teams are encouraged to focus on particular stats
- pokèmon with high BST total likely get their stats lowered but boost their teammates
- pokèmon with low BST and good typing/ability/movepool can become way stronger but you can't stack too many of them
- trick room and other speed control options are likely to become way more viable
On the other hand, sharing speed means one team always outspeeds the other (except for scarfs/abilities), and that could be way too punishing (expecially for offense vs offense), so speed could maybe be left out of this with all pokèmon retaining their original one. What do you think about it?
OU based looks better, but uber based could be interesting too (4-5 ubers + 1-2 underdogs that get almost ubers stats)
(I don't know if this is already submitted, is there a list of all existing metagames somewhere?)
If the regis are legal we might be in big trouble- stall with toxapex, regice, regirock, and registeel would be OP.
Also does a pokemon still share its stats to contribute to the average after it's fainted? If it does, then offense or stall will be broken. If it doesn't hyper offense would be an absolute menace, since if you have a stall breaker, you can just steamroll stall, with their shared average getting lower
Also Blisseys fat HP stat would make stall even more annoying lol. Imagine a toxapex regice Blissey core- that special defense would be through the roof!
Add to that eviolite (or assault vest if it can't evolve) you get insane bulk.
Here's a fun (but OP) meta idea- Reaper Powerhouse!
All pokemon, in addition to their regular abilities, gets beast boost.
If you have moxie, (no grim neigh because this is OU based) you will get the attack boost AND the beast boost boost.
Hyperoffense becomes absolutely deadly- bulky offence also thrives as well. Stall gets a lot worse, since it can't really take advantage of the mechanic.
Bans and Clauses-
Sleep Clause
OHKO Clause
Evasion clauses
Moody, Arena Trap, Shadow tag
While it is a fun idea, I would rather play my meta of Mastery if it existed
All pokemon, in addition to their regular abilities, gets beast boost.
If you have moxie, (no grim neigh because this is OU based) you will get the attack boost AND the beast boost boost.
Hyperoffense becomes absolutely deadly- bulky offence also thrives as well. Stall gets a lot worse, since it can't really take advantage of the mechanic.
Bans and Clauses-
Sleep Clause
OHKO Clause
Evasion clauses
Moody, Arena Trap, Shadow tag
While it is a fun idea, I would rather play my meta of Mastery if it existed
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yes stats are decided at game start and don't change.
I don't see stall be THAT broken, most high HP mons have low bulk and vice versa, and you need to be consistent in boosting both defenses. It would be hard to get a functional team with more than 110/110/110 bulk. And it would be hard to get some offensive power or speed control alongside all this bulk, with extremely passive teams.
Offense will be a little more a mixed bag, but one could engineer really strong sweepers putting good stats into something like maushold or polteageist. And keeping tera unbanned might be a way to further enhance this
Middle cup
A really cool OM that existed back in XY, i would like to bring it back to Gen 9.
Premise of the metagame:
You are only allowed to use the middle stage form of a three-stage evolution line, like
Pokémon like
would not be allowed, as they are part of a Two-stage line.
Potential Bans:
Banned abilities:
- Speed Boost
- Contrary
- Grassy surge
(grassy surge is banned because it would make
too strong, and since he is the only Pokémon with the ability, I'd rather just ban the ability than the Pokémon itself)
Banned items:
- Light Ball
Banned moves:
-Shell smash
Banned pokémon
Eviolite clause:
You are only allowed to use 1 eviolite per team
(If this is not possible, I’d just ban Eviolite entirely.)
Threats
Pretty much the Landorus of this tier, a bulky ground-type with a great attack stat and access to Stealth Rock, I believe he is the best Eviolite user.
With great attack and speed, access to moves like Knock off, Taunt, U-turn, Parting shot and Flare blitz it is probably the best fast pivot of the tier. It can also function as a sweeper with Swords Dance and Trailblaze.
A Sheer Force user with access to Dragon Dance and really good physical attacks, making it one of the best sweepers in the tier.
The OP ability Gale wings, makes Fletchinder a fantastic defoger, and a anti sweeper
With great Special Attack, Special Defense, low Speed, and access to Flip Turn, Brionne is a really good Assault Vest user and slow pivot.
Question to the community:
what other mons would be way too much for the mid-stages to handle?
A really cool OM that existed back in XY, i would like to bring it back to Gen 9.
Premise of the metagame:
You are only allowed to use the middle stage form of a three-stage evolution line, like
Pokémon like
would not be allowed, as they are part of a Two-stage line.Potential Bans:
Banned abilities:
- Speed Boost
- Contrary
- Grassy surge
(grassy surge is banned because it would make
too strong, and since he is the only Pokémon with the ability, I'd rather just ban the ability than the Pokémon itself)Banned items:
- Light Ball
Banned moves:
-Shell smash
Banned pokémon
Eviolite clause:
You are only allowed to use 1 eviolite per team
(If this is not possible, I’d just ban Eviolite entirely.)
Threats
Pretty much the Landorus of this tier, a bulky ground-type with a great attack stat and access to Stealth Rock, I believe he is the best Eviolite user. With great attack and speed, access to moves like Knock off, Taunt, U-turn, Parting shot and Flare blitz it is probably the best fast pivot of the tier. It can also function as a sweeper with Swords Dance and Trailblaze. A Sheer Force user with access to Dragon Dance and really good physical attacks, making it one of the best sweepers in the tier. The OP ability Gale wings, makes Fletchinder a fantastic defoger, and a anti sweeper With great Special Attack, Special Defense, low Speed, and access to Flip Turn, Brionne is a really good Assault Vest user and slow pivot.Question to the community:
what other mons would be way too much for the mid-stages to handle?
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This premise already exists as the unofficial metagame NFE. There aren't enough differences between these two for another metagame.Middle cup
A really cool OM that existed back in XY, i would like to bring it back to Gen 9.
Premise of the metagame:
You are only allowed to use the middle stage form of a three-stage evolution line, like
Pokémon like
Potential Bans:
Banned abilities:
- Speed Boost
- Contrary
- Grassy surge
(grassy surge is banned because it would make
Banned items:
- Light Ball
Banned moves:
-Shell smash
Banned pokémon
Eviolite clause:
You are only allowed to use 1 eviolite per team
(If this is not possible, I’d just ban Eviolite entirely.)
Threats
Question to the community:
what other mons would be way too much for the mid-stages to handle?
I see, thank you for the answer
Ok, this is long, but there’s a lot to consider.
Tl;dr: Among Us, but Pokemon.
Double Agent
Premise:
What if one of your own Pokemon was conspiring with the opponent to lose you the battle?
Premise Question-Answer:
The best way to explore this premise is within a Doubles 6v6 format, which would allow Double Agent Pokémon to target their own teammates (and vice versa), opening up a whole new level of mindgames to Pokémon battles.
At the beginning of the battle, each player will select their two leads, as is standard in Doubles. However, one of their inactive Pokémon not selected to lead will be randomly, and covertly, assigned the role of Double Agent.
Both trainers will control when any Pokémon on their side of the field will be withdrawn and enter battle, as well as when Terastalization is triggered. They will also select moves for all the Pokémon on their side of the field as they normally would.
So what’s the catch? When the Double Agent Pokémon is active in battle, your opponent will be also able to see this Pokémon’s available moves and select their moves and their targets of the Double Agent, as if it were their own Pokémon. The opponent’s move selection/targeting of the DA overrides the selection of its original trainer.
Thus, the original trainer will be initially
unaware their Pokémon is a Double Agent, until the moment their Pokémon disobeys their battle commands.
The opponent may attempt obfuscate the identity of the opposing Double Agent by attempting to select the move they think their opponent will be choosing, or targeting the DA with their own Pokémon. This subterfuge can be preserved until the right moment of the battle, when it will result in the best chance to achieve victory.
The mechanics of betrayal also test players’ ability to create team synergies able to self-contain themselves, as well as their adaptability in battles, not being able to access all team members’ moves.
On the flip side, being able to think on your feet and use the opponents’ resources against them will be highly rewarded.
Every battle has the chance to become a spy thriller. So, how will you handle the betrayal of your Double Agent?
Clauses:
Standard Doubles OM Clauses
Custom clause - Double Agent Clause: Each player will randomly trade move selection of one of their non-lead Pokémon at the beginning of the battle.
Strats:
Protect remains a fantastic move as it is in other Doubles formats, as it can be used to scout if your Pokémon is under your opponent’s control.
Spread moves like Blizzard are strong options as they cannot be used by Double Agents target Pokemon on their own side of the field.
Telepathy becomes a great ability for dedicated leads, as this ability allows the user to be immune from Double Agent attacks. However, Telepathy can be a double edged sword, if a user is a Double Agent, you won’t be able to target it with your other Pokémon.
If you are able to deduce the identify of the traitor on your team, tactfully sacking it to the opponent on switch in, so they cannot use it against you, may be advantageous.
The opposing player will not be able to see the DA’s held item, ability or Tera-type, as is the same in standard play. The fact that your opponent does not immediately have this information can be used to your advantage. For instance, you could Tera your Flying type DA to remove its Earthquake immunity and become weak to Ground moves, or remove its Adaptability-boosted super STABs.
Double Agent-proofing is invaluable for team building. For instance, you could use Ability Shield against your own Weezing’s Neutralizing Gas to maintain your ability, despite your opponent selecting your Weezing’s move, or Safety Googles on your leads to become immune to Spore and Rage Powder, in the event the opponent controls your Amoongus.
Power Level / Quickbans
Same as standard 6v6 Doubles. No quickbans needed at launch.
——————————-
Q&A
How does one win a battle in Double Agent?
Same as in standard play, by fainting all of the opponent’s Pokémon, including the Double Agent.
What is the move selection order when a Double Agent is on the field?
If available, the Double Agent’s move is chosen by the player first, and then the actions of their own Pokémon on their side of the field.
This priority gives the players the most amount of information for when the Double Agent is in play, what the opponent’s intentions may be, and how to best counteract or disrupt their plans.
Why make the two chosen leads ineligible to be the Double Agent?
Having the two leads of each team be fully trustworthy permits a degree of control to both players, granting both players a level playing field at the beginning of the battle, allowing each to form an opening gameplan at team preview and find their footing without fear of being betrayed by their lead Pokémon.
This also reduces the Double Agent to a pool of four candidates (assuming a full team of six has been brought to battle) reducing the process of elimination of the DA’s identity for each player.
Furthermore, if the two leads are able to get a sizable lead, or even win the battle, this limits the Double Agent’s opportunity to betray its team.
Why make the Double Agent’s identity random among the initial inactive Pokémon?
From a mechanics standpoint, it is necessary for the Double Agent to be chosen at random, and not at the agency of either player. If the Double Agent was able to be selected by the player, this would allow builders to simply make this slot a bad Pokémon in the builder, thus fully undermining the premise. Coercing the player to create a fully functional team of six competent Pokémon, while being mindful of how to contain each of them, is at the heart of this OM.
Conversely, if the Double Agent was permitted for the opposing player to choose which they control, it would reveal their opponent’s two chosen leads who are ineligible of being selected as the Double Agent, which would simply be uncompetitive.
Why not reveal the Double Agents’ identity in battle util they are active?
The unpredictability of the Double Agent inspires a moment of betrayal upon its reveal, and makes it necessary for both players to think on their feet at this pivotal moment of the battle.
How do abilities like Intimidate work and moves like Rage Powder work on Double Agent Pokemon?
Moves and abilities that are locked to affect the opposing side of the field still do so, as is the case in standard play.
Edit:
@prunny suggested on Discord eliminating the randomness and allowing players to chose their Double Agent from the opposing team at the beginning of the battle. I’d like to hear others’ opinions on this.
While this would simplify things, we would also have to eliminate making the leads immune from being Double Agents, so both players wouldn’t be able to trust any of their pokemon, even at lead. I would argue this actually reduces some amount of agency for both players from executing their battle plan, especially at the beginning of the battle.
Tl;dr: Among Us, but Pokemon.
I was inspired by my son’s recent Among Us obsession to come up with an OM premise centered around the notions of betrayal, subterfuge and deduction, and whether such concepts could be applied to Pokémon battles.
Done well, I think such a format could inspire a fun sense of thrill from being able to covertly dupe your opponent while screwing them over with their own Pokémon. However, the format would also have to avoid the pitfalls of that led Sabeteur-mons to be an unviable premise, as well as avoid unnecessarily robbing players of agency, which could lead to a diminished sense of meta satisfaction.
Rather, I would like the focus of such an OM to test players’ ability to adapt to their own Pokémon’s betrayal, make contingencies against them in the builder, and exploit the advantages their own spy allows throughout the course of the game.
After a bit of input and consideration, I’ve arrived at this point for an OM concept. I am very much open to input on how this could work mechanically to become a viable OM and the best approach to make this concept exciting and fun.
Done well, I think such a format could inspire a fun sense of thrill from being able to covertly dupe your opponent while screwing them over with their own Pokémon. However, the format would also have to avoid the pitfalls of that led Sabeteur-mons to be an unviable premise, as well as avoid unnecessarily robbing players of agency, which could lead to a diminished sense of meta satisfaction.
Rather, I would like the focus of such an OM to test players’ ability to adapt to their own Pokémon’s betrayal, make contingencies against them in the builder, and exploit the advantages their own spy allows throughout the course of the game.
After a bit of input and consideration, I’ve arrived at this point for an OM concept. I am very much open to input on how this could work mechanically to become a viable OM and the best approach to make this concept exciting and fun.
Double Agent
Premise:
What if one of your own Pokemon was conspiring with the opponent to lose you the battle?
Premise Question-Answer:
The best way to explore this premise is within a Doubles 6v6 format, which would allow Double Agent Pokémon to target their own teammates (and vice versa), opening up a whole new level of mindgames to Pokémon battles.
At the beginning of the battle, each player will select their two leads, as is standard in Doubles. However, one of their inactive Pokémon not selected to lead will be randomly, and covertly, assigned the role of Double Agent.
Both trainers will control when any Pokémon on their side of the field will be withdrawn and enter battle, as well as when Terastalization is triggered. They will also select moves for all the Pokémon on their side of the field as they normally would.
So what’s the catch? When the Double Agent Pokémon is active in battle, your opponent will be also able to see this Pokémon’s available moves and select their moves and their targets of the Double Agent, as if it were their own Pokémon. The opponent’s move selection/targeting of the DA overrides the selection of its original trainer.
Thus, the original trainer will be initially
unaware their Pokémon is a Double Agent, until the moment their Pokémon disobeys their battle commands.
The opponent may attempt obfuscate the identity of the opposing Double Agent by attempting to select the move they think their opponent will be choosing, or targeting the DA with their own Pokémon. This subterfuge can be preserved until the right moment of the battle, when it will result in the best chance to achieve victory.
The mechanics of betrayal also test players’ ability to create team synergies able to self-contain themselves, as well as their adaptability in battles, not being able to access all team members’ moves.
On the flip side, being able to think on your feet and use the opponents’ resources against them will be highly rewarded.
Every battle has the chance to become a spy thriller. So, how will you handle the betrayal of your Double Agent?
Clauses:
Standard Doubles OM Clauses
Custom clause - Double Agent Clause: Each player will randomly trade move selection of one of their non-lead Pokémon at the beginning of the battle.
Strats:
Protect remains a fantastic move as it is in other Doubles formats, as it can be used to scout if your Pokémon is under your opponent’s control.
Spread moves like Blizzard are strong options as they cannot be used by Double Agents target Pokemon on their own side of the field.
Telepathy becomes a great ability for dedicated leads, as this ability allows the user to be immune from Double Agent attacks. However, Telepathy can be a double edged sword, if a user is a Double Agent, you won’t be able to target it with your other Pokémon.
If you are able to deduce the identify of the traitor on your team, tactfully sacking it to the opponent on switch in, so they cannot use it against you, may be advantageous.
The opposing player will not be able to see the DA’s held item, ability or Tera-type, as is the same in standard play. The fact that your opponent does not immediately have this information can be used to your advantage. For instance, you could Tera your Flying type DA to remove its Earthquake immunity and become weak to Ground moves, or remove its Adaptability-boosted super STABs.
Double Agent-proofing is invaluable for team building. For instance, you could use Ability Shield against your own Weezing’s Neutralizing Gas to maintain your ability, despite your opponent selecting your Weezing’s move, or Safety Googles on your leads to become immune to Spore and Rage Powder, in the event the opponent controls your Amoongus.
Power Level / Quickbans
Same as standard 6v6 Doubles. No quickbans needed at launch.
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Q&A
How does one win a battle in Double Agent?
Same as in standard play, by fainting all of the opponent’s Pokémon, including the Double Agent.
What is the move selection order when a Double Agent is on the field?
If available, the Double Agent’s move is chosen by the player first, and then the actions of their own Pokémon on their side of the field.
This priority gives the players the most amount of information for when the Double Agent is in play, what the opponent’s intentions may be, and how to best counteract or disrupt their plans.
Why make the two chosen leads ineligible to be the Double Agent?
Having the two leads of each team be fully trustworthy permits a degree of control to both players, granting both players a level playing field at the beginning of the battle, allowing each to form an opening gameplan at team preview and find their footing without fear of being betrayed by their lead Pokémon.
This also reduces the Double Agent to a pool of four candidates (assuming a full team of six has been brought to battle) reducing the process of elimination of the DA’s identity for each player.
Furthermore, if the two leads are able to get a sizable lead, or even win the battle, this limits the Double Agent’s opportunity to betray its team.
Why make the Double Agent’s identity random among the initial inactive Pokémon?
From a mechanics standpoint, it is necessary for the Double Agent to be chosen at random, and not at the agency of either player. If the Double Agent was able to be selected by the player, this would allow builders to simply make this slot a bad Pokémon in the builder, thus fully undermining the premise. Coercing the player to create a fully functional team of six competent Pokémon, while being mindful of how to contain each of them, is at the heart of this OM.
Conversely, if the Double Agent was permitted for the opposing player to choose which they control, it would reveal their opponent’s two chosen leads who are ineligible of being selected as the Double Agent, which would simply be uncompetitive.
Why not reveal the Double Agents’ identity in battle util they are active?
The unpredictability of the Double Agent inspires a moment of betrayal upon its reveal, and makes it necessary for both players to think on their feet at this pivotal moment of the battle.
How do abilities like Intimidate work and moves like Rage Powder work on Double Agent Pokemon?
Moves and abilities that are locked to affect the opposing side of the field still do so, as is the case in standard play.
Edit:
@prunny suggested on Discord eliminating the randomness and allowing players to chose their Double Agent from the opposing team at the beginning of the battle. I’d like to hear others’ opinions on this.
While this would simplify things, we would also have to eliminate making the leads immune from being Double Agents, so both players wouldn’t be able to trust any of their pokemon, even at lead. I would argue this actually reduces some amount of agency for both players from executing their battle plan, especially at the beginning of the battle.
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I have an example team that could be used in Mastery- (While the sets above are quite OP, people already know them so it feels redundant)
Also this team has an extremely niche mon in Numel, who actually has some weird use cases in this meta.
Ninetales Heat rock
Drought
Tera Grass
252 Speed, 252 Sp.atk, 4 Hp, Timid
-Nasty plot
-Overheat
-Flamethrower
-Solar Beam
Numel eviolite
Simple
Tera Grass
EVs- 252 Sp.atk, 252 speed, 4 HP, Modest
-Growth
-Flamethrower
-Earth Power
-Tera blast
[Idea is that an agile style growth in the sun gives you +3 Sp.atk +3 atk (irrelevant on a special attacker but still good) and +2 speed, making it have 753 Sp.atk, and 338 Speed)
Walking Wake Choice Specs
Photosynthesis
Tera Steel
EVs- 252 Sp.atk, 252 Speed, 4 hp, Timid
-Hydro Steam
-Draco Meteor
-Flamethrower
-Tera Blast
To be continued.
Okay this idea would be an absolute pain to code but it's funny to think about ( take this entire idea with a grain of sodium chloride)
Periodic Moves-
If a move had the symbol for a periodic element, the elements number is added on to its base power (priority to the first element in a move) for example Raging fury with radium (Ra) would become 208 BP because radium has the number 88 assigned to it.
Yes I know this is an absolutely horrid idea but it's hilarious to think about. Some of the higher number elements have really weird combinations so they will be hard to find use cased.
Clauses- Standed OU clauses
Just to clarify the element can be anywhere in the move.
However, it is specific- if you want to have a radium boosted move , it would have to be RA, not AR in the move, otherwise you could get something completely different.
Threats- Uranium. Adding ninety two base power to any move that has U in it (that has U before any other periodic element) is very broken. Boosted U turn horrifies me.
Population Bomb with Polonium (PO) is also scary with an 84 base power boost to each individual hit- with stab- and can hit up to ten times. Okay, maybe the Overpowered elements merely get uncoded, instead of outright banned.
Periodic Moves-
If a move had the symbol for a periodic element, the elements number is added on to its base power (priority to the first element in a move) for example Raging fury with radium (Ra) would become 208 BP because radium has the number 88 assigned to it.
Yes I know this is an absolutely horrid idea but it's hilarious to think about. Some of the higher number elements have really weird combinations so they will be hard to find use cased.
Clauses- Standed OU clauses
Just to clarify the element can be anywhere in the move.
However, it is specific- if you want to have a radium boosted move , it would have to be RA, not AR in the move, otherwise you could get something completely different.
Threats- Uranium. Adding ninety two base power to any move that has U in it (that has U before any other periodic element) is very broken. Boosted U turn horrifies me.
Population Bomb with Polonium (PO) is also scary with an 84 base power boost to each individual hit- with stab- and can hit up to ten times. Okay, maybe the Overpowered elements merely get uncoded, instead of outright banned.
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I'm not sure it's ever worth it to try and keep the guise up. You have to correctly guess both the move and the target, and if you fail you've thrown away a free move and possibly negatively affected your own Pokemon.
I think it's way too easy to snowball. The player who gets their double agent out first gets to play a 3v1, and the opponent likely won't get their double agent out to even the odds, because the winning player has no reason to switch and is unlikely to have anything KOed.
I’ve considered the 3v1 being too lopsided, which is why I initially thought it would be better if the DAs would not be released at leads. Once you have to change Pokémon, you still have the option to Protect-scout to see if your opponent is controlling your Pokemon, and once you figure it out, you can swap them out again, still overrides your opponent’s move selection.
Still, this is a fair point. Thinking about it from this perspective, I optimal strat is just to scout and then sack your traitor at the first possible opportunity, or just pocket them in the back. That’s not a sound execution of the premise. Perhaps a mechanical change could otherwise help mitigate this? I feel like the premise is very interesting, and worth exploring, although it is challenging to execute.
How’s this for a slightly different take: Instead of fully controlling one of the opponent’s mons, each player gets 1 instance per game to control any the opponent’s Pokemon, similarly to a Z-Move.
In a Doubles Format, a single move betrayal could still be very much game changing, but it wouldn’t necessarily be so dramatic the other player couldn’t recover.
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I think that would be a really good idea but as long as you have a move that can hit your partner, your good to go! Here's how you do it- Spread move with one, Protect with the other. If the spread move one obeys, it's not the DA. If the partner protects, it's not the DA. If it does something else it will get hit and you know which one of your pokemon it is. Or you could have all telepathy mons so your partner can't betray you in the first place!