Project Metagame Workshop

[Cuddly]

Gift of Sharing​

Metagame Premise: In this metagame, the Pokemon with the highest of a stat trades their stat with the corresponding teammate.

Example

Say you have this team

In this Metagame, Registeel will get Blissey’s 255 HP since that’s the highest HP stat is in the first slot. However, Blissey will then be given Registeel’s HP.
Darkrai here will get Kingambit’s Atk stat because Kingambit’s Atk is the highest on the team, while Kingambit gets Darkrai’s Atk instead.
So on and so forth.

Potential Bans and Threats:

To no one’s surprise, Huge/Pure Power, Fur Coat, and Ice Scales are gonna be problematic. Fur Coat and Ice Scales less so, but still OP. Huge/Pure Power with Atk stats on par with Rampardos or Hoopa-Unbound is absurd, reaching nearly an effective 370 Atk stat.


No doubt these 2 are gonna cause trouble both passing their massive HP stats or abusing them with better Defense stats from teammates. They usually are banned in metagames like this so its no big surprise.


Deo-s can be either dead weight itself in order to give a slow Pokemon 180 Speed, or it can benefit from a much higher HP stat. :doexys-defense: can do so too so that it’s actually bulky, or has better set up sweeper potentially with Cosmic Stored Power sets or higher SpA/Speed for Bulky Nasty Plot sets.


One of Hoopa’s biggest flaws is its survivability. Either because of Speed, Typing, or its low Def stat. In addition to being able to give one of its giant offensive stats, it can make itself better able to survive with either a better Def stat or better Speed.

Questions for the Community:
1. How would you like Forme changes to work in this Metagame? Like for example, if you use and change into , what stat would it share?
Or say you’re using and turn into , where its your higher Atk and Speed Pokemon. What would you do there?

 

[Hiusi guy]

WIP on name​

Premise: As the battle begins, each player is allowed to choose their team from the selection of their own team and 3 of any pokemon on their opponents team. Teams cannot exceed or be below their initial size.

Example:

Team Preview

Pika player: vs Pinky squad player:

At the start of this battle both players can choose between pokemon on their team or their opponents team but with sets and stats of opp mons being unrevealed.
Valid teams in this situation could look like this:

Valid Games

Pika Player: vs Pink Squad Player:
or even
Pika player: vs Pink Squad Player:

Invalid or impossible teams in this situation would be like these:

Invalid/Impossible teams

Pika Player: (impossible, can only choose 3 of opp mons) vs Pink Squad Player: (invalid, can only have a team of 6)
or even
Pika player: (Invalid, can only a team of 6) vs Pink Squad Player: (impossible, no one has ditto and not a team of 6)

Not much else to add otherwise, just looking for feedback.

Bans and clauses would prolly look very similar to OU, I haven't thought much about them tbh. The only clause to add would be one that restricts team sizes to be the same as they started if that doesn't exist already.

Questions for you onlookers:

• Should mons be fully unrevealed, revealed partially (Team sheet style), or fully revealed in team preview?
• Should the amount of mons you choose from your opp be increased or decreased?
• Any specific clause, ban, or anything that is allowed that should be added, removed, unbanned, or banned?

Bye Bye now

 

[Cuddly]

WIP on name​

Premise: As the battle begins, each player is allowed to choose their team from the selection of their own team and 3 of any pokemon on their opponents team. Teams cannot exceed or be below their initial size.

Example:

Team Preview

Pika player: vs Pinky squad player:

At the start of this battle both players can choose between pokemon on their team or their opponents team but with sets and stats of opp mons being unrevealed.
Valid teams in this situation could look like this:

Valid Games

Pika Player: vs Pink Squad Player:
or even
Pika player: vs Pink Squad Player:

Invalid or impossible teams in this situation would be like these:

Invalid/Impossible teams

Pika Player: (impossible, can only choose 3 of opp mons) vs Pink Squad Player: (invalid, can only have a team of 6)
or even
Pika player: (Invalid, can only a team of 6) vs Pink Squad Player: (impossible, no one has ditto and not a team of 6)

Not much else to add otherwise, just looking for feedback.

Bans and clauses would prolly look very similar to OU, I haven't thought much about them tbh. The only clause to add would be one that restricts team sizes to be the same as they started if that doesn't exist already.

Questions for you onlookers:

• Should mons be fully unrevealed, revealed partially (Team sheet style), or fully revealed in team preview?
• Should the amount of mons you choose from your opp be increased or decreased?
• Any specific clause, ban, or anything that is allowed that should be added, removed, unbanned, or banned?

Bye Bye now

Sorry, but metagames where you use your opponent’s Pokemon aren’t possible on Showdown.

 

[Hiusi guy]

Sorry, but metagames where you use your opponent’s Pokemon aren’t possible on Showdown.

I may have heard that at some point but i forgor , thx for telling me tho

Edit: Crazyhouse exist so im not as convinced by this

 

[Velcroc]

I would recommend looking to Balanced Hackmons and Inheritance’s banlists for inspiration, as there are a lot of broken combinations that would apply here.

Seconding this. Smeargle should be on the chopping block pretty early too since it pretty much gifts every mon almost any move. SlakGigas are typically banned in Inheritance (and most other ability changing formats), but they could end up being legal here - I'll talk about this later on.

Increased Viability:

Many great moves only have smeargle as a legal user
Can receive a better ability and pass on Truant to a teammate with Skill Swap
Pokemon with solid abilities and movepools can fit in otherwise hard-to-fill slots
Donors of highly influential abilities
Pokemon that can pass on great traits without being rendered completely useless without them

Decreased Viability:
As all pokemon lose access to their native abilities, forme changers are stuck in their base forme
Ability useless on other pokemon

I would also change the increases/decreased viability section. I do think Slaking could find a place in the metagame thanks to its movepool but passing Truant to another slot is basically rendering another slot useless and the 6v5 is preserved. Compare this to Regigigas who passes Slow Start: a less detrimental ability that certain mons, namely bulky special attacking slow pivots, could use. Regigigas has very little in terms of drawback, but I think it should be mentioned that Slaking is a high risk-high reward mon.

I don't think a lot of mons decrease in viability which makes me wonder if this section is required for submitting a metagame. Everything gets a move, even mons that don't change abilities. Terapagos with recovery, for example, becomes a CM Sweeper with turbo multiscale. Palafin is a pretty good pick for this list though. I don't think changing a single move slot will counteract the power creep of this meta, but you can do a lot more interesting things with it like Knock Off.

Pecharunt is slightly worse but I wouldn't necessarily say it's because of it's ability. Poison Puppeteer, especially when combo'd with Malignant Chain or Toxic, is a fine donation for bulky mons. I think the real issue, and something the decreased viability list should include, are mons that lose something by donating their ability or last moveslot. Pecharunt really wants 4 moveslots. By putting it on your team, you are either going to pass up on important utility (i.e. parting shot or nasty plot) or drop a STAB for something like Toxic. In this metagame you'd want your slots to do something beyond what they can already do and part of that relies on making mons that can work within a 3 slot constraint. You're not gonna waste a slot on another mon to make a mon do something it already does unless there's a specific dynamic you want to change.

Unbanning some Ubers makes sense in light of this. Landorus-Incarnate, Shaymin-Sky and Ursaluna-Blood Moon pass on their most Broken assets to something else that is less likely to abuse it as well. Sheer Force is controversial and Lando donating Nasty Plot is kinda scary, but Sheer Force would be the culprit here. Shaymin-Sky and Ursaluna-Blood Moon have been unbanned in formats like Inheritance and AAA and they're alright there. Speed Boost is an obviously broken ability so that would most likely see a ban, making an Espathra drop free. Regieleki and Ogerpon-Hearthflame are definitely palatable if you choose to forgo Tera.

 

[Cuddly]

Poison Puppeteer, especially when combo'd with Malignant Chain or Toxic, is a fine donation for bulky mons

Poison Puppeteer only works if the user is Pecharunt itself.
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w/index.php?title=Poison_Puppeteer_(Ability)

 

[AintTellingUNothing]

Thank goodness for that otherwise toxapex could get a bit out of hand lol

 

[AintTellingUNothing]

Skill shift

Metagame premise:
Upon entering the match, your team's moves and abilities are shifted by 1 slot:

Pratical example #1 (unbalanced team)

Before

@ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Truant
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Bulk Up
- Knock Off
- Slack Off
- Encore

@ Choice Scarf
Ability: Imposter
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 30 Atk
- Transform

(F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Serene Grace
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Soft-Boiled
- Seismic Toss
- Heal Bell
- Stealth Rock

@ Focus Sash
Ability: Simple
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
- Roar
- Will-O-Wisp
- Lava Plume
- Flamethrower

@ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Morning Sun
- Bug Buzz
- Dual Wingbeat

@ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Multiscale
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Ice Punch
- Earthquake
- Extreme Speed

After

@ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Multiscale
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Bulk Up
- Knock Off
- Slack Off

@ Choice Scarf
Ability: Truant
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 30 Atk
- Encore

(F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Imposter
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Transform
- Soft-Boiled
- Seismic Toss
- Heal Bell

@ Focus Sash
Ability: Serene Grace
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Roar
- Will-O-Wisp
- Lava Plume

@ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Simple
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Flamethrower
- Quiver Dance
- Morning Sun
- Bug Buzz

@ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dual Wingbeat
- Dragon Dance
- Ice Punch
- Earthquake

Pratical example #2 (more balanced team)

Before

@ Focus Sash
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Memento
- Ceaseless Edge
- Sticky Web
- Poltergeist

@ Life Orb
Ability: Cursed Body
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Dragon Darts
- Dragon Dance
- Flamethrower
- Will-O-Wisp

@ Leftovers
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
- Close Combat
- Knock Off

@ Booster Energy
Ability: Supreme Overlord
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
- Grass Knot

@ Leftovers
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 20 Atk
- Thunderclap
- Calm Mind
- Draco Meteor
- Body Press

@ Booster Energy
Ability: Mirror Armor
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 92 Def / 164 SpD
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Taunt

After

@ Focus Sash
Ability: Mirror Armor
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Memento
- Ceaseless Edge
- Sticky Web

@ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Poltergeist
- Dragon Darts
- Dragon Dance
- Flamethrower


@ Leftovers
Ability: Cursed Body
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
- Close Combat

@ Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head

@ Leftovers
Ability: Supreme Overlord
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 20 Atk
- Grass Knot
- Thunderclap
- Calm Mind
- Draco Meteor

@ Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 92 Def / 164 SpD
Careful Nature
- Body Press
- Bulk Up
- Brave Bird
- Roost

Increased Viability:

Many great moves only have smeargle as a legal user
Can receive a better ability and pass on Truant to a teammate with Skill Swap
Pokemon with solid abilities and movepools can fit in otherwise hard-to-fill slots
Donors of highly influential abilities
Pokemon that can pass on great traits without being rendered completely useless without them

Decreased Viability:
As all pokemon lose access to their native abilities, forme changers are stuck in their base forme
Ability useless on other pokemon

I'd love to play this
The thing is, that this could get really out of hand.
Here are some mons who might get more viable-

Rampardos getting accerlerock from Lycanroc with that high of an attack stat is a literal war crime. Even though it's only 40 BP it's a STAB rock move (one of the best offensive types imo) off a 165 attack stat. Slap on a Choice band and add no guard rock moves and you smoke everything.

Meowcarada can get hustle and Victory Dance from liligant-hisui , and with flower trick being a guaranteed hit and crit, this thing will do ridiculous damage. Either VD or CB sets will do well.
You could also have a kingra pass down DD and sniper for those powerful critical hitting flower tricks.

Here's something else- Specs Pixlate boomburst scream tail.
I swear, in any meta where you can change your ability, this comes up. A sylveon in front of you gives you the coveted pixilate, and you can donate one of scream tails many useful moves to something else.
It has thunderbolt ice beam and flamethrower to gives something a reliable attack, it has wish, perish song and stealth rock for support, and something else gets Protosynthesis.
As a cherry on top Scream tail is fast and bulky, so it outspeeds, tanks and destroys all at once.

Something similar might be pixilate boomburst tera fairy flagon with earth power, draco Meteor and can pass Dragon Dance onto something else. Ground and fairy is known to be an insane offensive duo, so having stabs on both earth power and boomburst is crazy lol. It doesn't have the same overpoweredness as scream tail but is still good.

Also- Numel. This guy will ruin everyone's days with passing simple.
On sun teams if your good with them you could have simple growth on a fast offensive sweeper and that would kill everything.

In addition, smeragle might wanna be quickbanned. Say you got prankster from the mon in front of you and passed down technician and pob bomb to a strong normal type or moody to a toxapex. Congratulations, you have probably broken the Geneva convention.

This is a meta I'd love to play, really hope it can be real so I can ruins someone's day :)

 

[Velcroc]

Rampardos getting accerlerock from Lycanroc with that high of an attack stat is a literal war crime. Even though it's only 40 BP it's a STAB rock move (one of the best offensive types imo) off a 165 attack stat. Slap on a Choice band and add no guard rock moves and you smoke everything.

I think most of the mons you mentioned will end up being strong metagame relevant threats that won't get fully banned (Scream Tail, Sniper Meowscarada) or are pretty broken (Victory Dance, Smeargle and Numel), but Rampardos is a pretty big outlier here. I don't think the issues it has in STABmons or Inheritance get fixed in this format, which is that it's a slow, frail and heavily prediction reliant mon. Given that we would most likely also see AAA stuff like Regen Tusk, Intim Corv/Gliscor and certain Fluffy mons + a lot of offensively inclined Fighting-types benefitting from both a stronger ability plus coverage/set-up, I'd say it would be tough to make this work. It may not be completely irrelevant as it could break through slow, bulky teams but at that point we have stuff like Tough Claws Cornerpon or even Sharpness Iron Boulder. Accelerock even with CB + Tough Claws + STAB and 165 attack isn't enough to guarantee OHKOs on even fast frail mons and almost all of them will OHKO back. Pretty minor point, but I am a Rampardos hater so I gotta let this stuff be known.

I'm also not convinced about Boomburst Flygon. Feels like Corv food 90% of the time and most OMs have heavy Corv usage. I think the bigger issue would be that Flygon has never been particularly strong. I would rather run something Sheer Force LO with Epower, Fire move, roost and nasty plot or something.

 

[VannAccessible]

Toxtection

I'm glad to see Skill Shift is getting traction. You should go for it! I think it has a lot of potential.

I was thinking on it a bit more. Balancing would be a daunting task for sure, but something that's inherently cool about this format would be that you could make some OP combos, for instance Pixilate Boomburst Scream Tail or Population Bomb Technician Zoroark-H or Salt Cure + Purifying Salt Corv/Pex. The trade off is that you're then also stuck with a Sylveon or Maushould or Garganacl who have lost their best tools and comparatively barren movepools. The trick in the builder would be to create those strong combos, while mitigating those dead slots as much as possible. You would ideally still want every member of your team to be a competent mon, or otherwise you have to be willing to accept that you can have something OP, but it will be balanced with an essentially dead slot that is relegated to sack material.

With that in mind, here's my take on what a starting banlist/watchlist could look like to have the meta be in a playable state early on. I would start with a base OU power level, and no Tera, permitting you to potentially free mons like Regieleki, Terapagos and Volcorona. If you ban Speed Boost, Espathra can be freed. This is just my theory crafting opinion, take with a grain of salt.

Starting Skill Shift Banlist/Watchlist

Pokémon

• Water Bubble is broken, especially with Rain. Araquanid would make a fine special wall/tank with out it, that can still run Sticky Web.
• No Retreat breaks any sweeper, and Battle Armor/Defiant are good too. Decent spread could still let it be useful without these trade offs.
• Good As Gold on anything, like for instance a Calm Mind + Stored Power sweeper, gets whacky really quick. Dengo is good regardless because of its typing.
• This one is debatable for QB? Ice Scales is OP, but Frosmoth is really bad without it, and if QD is banned, the real trade off is there. Def Watchlist, at least.
• Comatose cheese.
• Clangorous Soul breaks any sweeper, and it passes two useful abilities in Soundproof and Bulletproof. Still useful enough itself without CS or those abilities, as it can still be a set up sweeper with Dragon Dance, or become a wall/utility mon.
• Victory Dance breaks too many mons.
• Tail Glow only has two users, and one is Volbeat. Manapy is still great without Tail Glow as it also gets Take Heart.
• Really bad mon, but Simple is too good?
• Similar deal as Frosmoth, Persian is bad without Fur Coat, but Fur Coat making a mega wall may be too OP.
• Rage Fist is broken on anything fat with recovery. Primeape being somewhat weak is an inadequate trade off, IMO.
• Echoing what Velcroc said, this guy is simply OP with any other offensive ability and moveset expansion, while Slow Start does not have adequate trade offs on slow special attackers like Blissey or Hatterene to make it not worth it. Hell, it'd be a great ability on Trick Room!
• Same deal as Regi. Truant is a horrid ability for sure, but you trade it to a bulky mon with Skill Swap and it all immediately becomes very problematic.
• Has every move and Technician, and can still be useful if traded Prankster or Magic Bounce as a suicide lead.
• Veluza is dead weight after trading away Fillet Away and Mold Breaker, but that is irrelevant- any mon becomes a deadly set up sweeper that even Unaware cannot stop.

Moves

• Baton Pass
• Belly Drum
• Last Respects
• Quiver Dance - breaks too much to be healthy
• Revival Blessing
• Shed Tail
• Shell Smash

Abilities

• Arena Trap
• Contrary
• Huge Power - breakers
• Illusion - too unpredictable?
• Magnet Pull - Makes anything too good at removing Ssteels
• Moody
• Neutralizing Gas - This is just a silly ability on most walls / offensive mons
• Pure Power - breakers
• Shadow Tag
• Sheer Force - makes unwallable mixed breakers
• Speed Boost - basically anything with Stored Power or Power Trip can imitate Espathra's broken shtick.
• Stakeout - breakers
• Stench - dumb tradedon to anything with multi-hit moves
• Unburden - offense insta-loses everywhere

Items

• Damp Rock - Rain and Sun will be strong off the bat, but banning Drought and Drizzle first seems drastic. These items might need watchlisted early, at least.
• Heat Rock
• King's Rock
• Razor Fang

 

[Cuddly]

The banlist should be nearly identical to AAA and STABmons. The Usual suspects not to be confused with the film in these kinds of Metagames pretty much universally ban X abilities and Y moves.
Although I think maybe less ability bans since abilities are more limited. Like how Illusion isn’t that much better since unlike AAA you can’t sneak it onto a random Pokemon.
But I’ll gladly take Stench being banned, even if it’s technically not OP. Flinch mechanics outside of Fake Out need to die in a fire.

 

[Toxtection]

I'm glad to see Skill Shift is getting traction. You should go for it! I think it has a lot of potential.

Thank you, will look into it (though I'm not sure what to do about the whole council thing)

With that in mind, here's my take on what a starting banlist/watchlist could look like to have the meta be in a playable state early on. I would start with a base OU power level, and no Tera, permitting you to potentially free mons like Regieleki, Terapagos and Volcorona. If you ban Speed Boost, Espathra can be freed. This is just my theory crafting opinion, take with a grain of salt.

I agree with freeing Volcarona and Terapagos, Regieleki I'm not entirely sold on as it could receive the coverage from another slot.

• Water Bubble is broken, especially with Rain. Araquanid would make a fine special wall/tank with out it, that can still run Sticky Web.
• No Retreat breaks any sweeper, and Battle Armor/Defiant are good too. Decent spread could still let it be useful without these trade offs.
• Good As Gold on anything, like for instance a Calm Mind + Stored Power sweeper, gets whacky really quick. Dengo is good regardless because of its typing.
• This one is debatable for QB? Ice Scales is OP, but Frosmoth is really bad without it, and if QD is banned, the real trade off is there. Def Watchlist, at least.
• Comatose cheese.
• Clangorous Soul breaks any sweeper, and it passes two useful abilities in Soundproof and Bulletproof. Still useful enough itself without CS or those abilities, as it can still be a set up sweeper with Dragon Dance, or become a wall/utility mon.
• Victory Dance breaks too many mons.
• Tail Glow only has two users, and one is Volbeat. Manapy is still great without Tail Glow as it also gets Take Heart.
• Really bad mon, but Simple is too good?
• Similar deal as Frosmoth, Persian is bad without Fur Coat, but Fur Coat making a mega wall may be too OP.
• Rage Fist is broken on anything fat with recovery. Primeape being somewhat weak is an inadequate trade off, IMO.
• Echoing what Velcroc said, this guy is simply OP with any other offensive ability and moveset expansion, while Slow Start does not have adequate trade offs on slow special attackers like Blissey or Hatterene to make it not worth it. Hell, it'd be a great ability on Trick Room!
• Same deal as Regi. Truant is a horrid ability for sure, but you trade it to a bulky mon with Skill Swap and it all immediately becomes very problematic.
• Has every move and Technician, and can still be useful if traded Prankster or Magic Bounce as a suicide lead.
• Veluza is dead weight after trading away Fillet Away and Mold Breaker, but that is irrelevant- any mon becomes a deadly set up sweeper that even Unaware cannot stop.

Moves

• Baton Pass
• Belly Drum
• Last Respects
• Quiver Dance - breaks too much to be healthy
• Revival Blessing
• Shed Tail
• Shell Smash

Abilities

• Arena Trap
• Contrary
• Huge Power - breakers
• Illusion - too unpredictable?
• Magnet Pull - Makes anything too good at removing Ssteels
• Moody
• Neutralizing Gas - This is just a silly ability on most walls / offensive mons
• Pure Power - breakers
• Shadow Tag
• Sheer Force - makes unwallable mixed breakers
• Speed Boost - basically anything with Stored Power or Power Trip can imitate Espathra's broken shtick.
• Stakeout - breakers
• Stench - dumb tradedon to anything with multi-hit moves
• Unburden - offense insta-loses everywhere

Items

• Damp Rock - I feel like Rain and Sun will be strong off the bat, but banning Drought and Drizzle first seems too drastic. These items should be watchlisted early, at least.
• Heat Rock
• King's Rock
• Razor Fang

I agree with almost all of these, but I'm surprised there is no mention of Imposter, it would be a great check to most of the broken setup sweepers, even though you are giving up a slot for it. It may even be banworthy itself.

Some of them like Water Bubble, Comatose and Huge/Pure power are pretty obvious bans, but others like Numel and Veluza imo warrant further consideration because the sweepers really have to sweep as you're essentially starting the game 5v6.

Most AAA bans that involve obtainable abilities not restricted to Numel-tier pokemon would likely be included too.

There isn't much precedent for being forced to run a terrible pokemon in order to run a super broken one so it's tough to judge how much of a drawback it really is.

I'd love to play this
The thing is, that this could get really out of hand.
Here are some mons who might get more viable-

Rampardos getting accerlerock from Lycanroc with that high of an attack stat is a literal war crime. Even though it's only 40 BP it's a STAB rock move (one of the best offensive types imo) off a 165 attack stat. Slap on a Choice band and add no guard rock moves and you smoke everything.

Meowcarada can get hustle and Victory Dance from liligant-hisui , and with flower trick being a guaranteed hit and crit, this thing will do ridiculous damage. Either VD or CB sets will do well.
You could also have a kingra pass down DD and sniper for those powerful critical hitting flower tricks.

Here's something else- Specs Pixlate boomburst scream tail.
I swear, in any meta where you can change your ability, this comes up. A sylveon in front of you gives you the coveted pixilate, and you can donate one of scream tails many useful moves to something else.
It has thunderbolt ice beam and flamethrower to gives something a reliable attack, it has wish, perish song and stealth rock for support, and something else gets Protosynthesis.
As a cherry on top Scream tail is fast and bulky, so it outspeeds, tanks and destroys all at once.

Something similar might be pixilate boomburst tera fairy flagon with earth power, draco Meteor and can pass Dragon Dance onto something else. Ground and fairy is known to be an insane offensive duo, so having stabs on both earth power and boomburst is crazy lol. It doesn't have the same overpoweredness as scream tail but is still good.

Also- Numel. This guy will ruin everyone's days with passing simple.
On sun teams if your good with them you could have simple growth on a fast offensive sweeper and that would kill everything.

In addition, smeragle might wanna be quickbanned. Say you got prankster from the mon in front of you and passed down technician and pob bomb to a strong normal type or moody to a toxapex. Congratulations, you have probably broken the Geneva convention.

This is a meta I'd love to play, really hope it can be real so I can ruins someone's day :)

One nice thing is that this meta doesn't involve any new mechanics changes and can therefore be played in challenges without implementation (it's a subset of Sketchmons AAA).

 

[VannAccessible]

I thought about Imposter too, but a Ditto without it is the very definition of dead weight, isn’t it? It can’t even use Transform, haha.

We all know how meta-defining Imposter Chansey is in BH…but that’s indeed a 5v6. Very steep price to pay.

 

[AintTellingUNothing]

Just thought of a niche toxtricity could have in this meta.
With technician and the coveted shift gear on something like Cloyster for example, any multi hit move users become very strong.
In addition, it isn't completely useless without technician, an ability like galvanise from an alolan golem (who can be used as a Stealth rock suicide lead with explosion) makes boombust skyrocket in power.

Technician cyclizar sounds pretty heat- scale shot and rapid spin really like the boost, and it can pass Shed tail or a shift gear of its own to another sweeper, so it can pass shift gear while keeping it.

Pretty niche but probably going to be a set that will occasionally be seen.

 

[Cuddly]

I think Falinks could possibly be banned as a whole
Falinks @ Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Ghost/Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- No Retreat
- Close Combat
- Rest
- Jaw Lock
With Jaw Lock and Protosynthesis from a partner Roaring Moon, Falinks gets the forbidden combo of No Retreat + Jaw Lock. In case you don’t know, If you use Jaw Lock before No Retreat, you can use No Retreat without fail. When you’re already trapped by moves like Mean Look, No Retreat can be used multiple times. And Jaw Lock gives yourself that status effect.
With that strategy, you could pretty easily Jaw Lock a more passive Pokemon, spam No Retreat, Rest up when you need to, then sweep.
In this set, Falinks gets a speed boost from Booster Energy to make itself faster, but you could also have 76 Def and 180 Spe EVs in order to give yourself a Def boost and make it easier to set up.
Tera Ghost lets you escape if you need to for some reason and makes you neutral to multiple Fighting weaknesses, while Fire lets you resist Fairy and be immune to Burns. Steel/Poison are also options for Fairy resists immune to Toxic too.

 

[AintTellingUNothing]

It's a cool set but that assumes that Roaring Moon isn't banned. If this starts OU based with all Ubers mons banned then good jaw lock donors become a lot rarer.

 

[AintTellingUNothing]

Simple NR Falinks or Simple CS Kommo-o are very threatening

 

[Cuddly]

It's a cool set but that assumes that Roaring Moon isn't banned. If this starts OU based with all Ubers mons banned then good jaw lock donors become a lot rarer.

Jaw Lock is also learned by Drednaw and Mabosstiff as well, both provide pretty useful abilities too in Intimidate, Guard Dog, and Shell Armor.
They also aren't so deadweight on their own too. Dreadnaw learns Shell Smash and could receive stuff of its own, while Mabosstiff has a usable support movepool with options like Destiny Bond, Taunt, and Roar.
Point is that Falinks has access to Omni-boosts and easy way to bypass the restriction it has.

 

[AintTellingUNothing]

Almost forgot. Also dreadnaw has strong jaw and swift swim btw.

 

[AintTellingUNothing]

Another thing about the meta is the deadweight pokemon. Here's the fun bit. A lot of them cam act as a suicide lead! Veluza naturally has Final Gambit (I'm pretty sure anyway), and a lot of pokemon can pass Memento, a good way to nerf the opponents pokemon, especially sweepers.
Numel could be a Stealth rock Explosion pokemon with toxic debris from glimmora. It can pass simple to an actually good user of the ability, and has a decent movepool as well.

 

[Toxtection]

It's a cool set but that assumes that Roaring Moon isn't banned. If this starts OU based with all Ubers mons banned then good jaw lock donors become a lot rarer.

This is what I'm thinking for a starting banlist:

Banlist

Definately Banned:

Pokemon

Arceus
Baxcalibur
Calyrex-Ice
Calyrex-Shadow
Chien-Pao
Chi-Yu
Deoxys
Deoxys-Attack
Dialga
Dialga-Origin
Eternatus
Flutter Mane
Giratina
Giratina-Origin
Gouging Fire
Groudon
Ho-Oh
Iron Bundle
Koraidon
Kyogre
Kyurem-Black
Kyurem-White
Lugia
Lunala
Magearna
Mewtwo
Miraidon
Necrozma-Dawn-Wings
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane
Ogerpon-Hearthflame
Palkia
Palkia-Origin
Rayquaza
Reshiram
Shaymin-Sky
Sneasler
Solgaleo
Spectrier
Urshifu
Urshifu-Rapid-Strike
Zacian
Zacian-Crowned
Zamazenta-Crowned
Zekrom

Falinks
Gholdengo
Hoopa-U
Komala
Lilligant-Hisui
Regigigas
Smeargle

Moves

Baton Pass
Belly Drum
Last Respects
Quiver Dance
Revival Blessing
Shed Tail
Shell Smash
Rage Fist

Abilities

Arena Trap
Contrary
Huge Power
Magnet Pull
Moody
Neutralizing Gas
Pure Power
Shadow Tag
Sheer Force
Speed Boost
Stakeout
Stench
Unburden
Water Bubble

Items

King's Rock
Razor Fang

Watchlist

Watchlist:

Pokemon

Frosmoth
/ Kommo-O/Numel (At least one banned)
Manaphy
Persian-Alola
Slaking
Veluza
Zamazenta

Moves

Boomburst

Abilities

Poison Heal

Items

Damp Rock
Heat Rock

 

[chartung17]

This is what I'm thinking for a starting banlist:

Banlist

Definately Banned:

Pokemon

Arceus
Baxcalibur
Calyrex-Ice
Calyrex-Shadow
Chien-Pao
Chi-Yu
Deoxys
Deoxys-Attack
Dialga
Dialga-Origin
Eternatus
Flutter Mane
Giratina
Giratina-Origin
Gouging Fire
Groudon
Ho-Oh
Iron Bundle
Koraidon
Kyogre
Kyurem-Black
Kyurem-White
Lugia
Lunala
Magearna
Mewtwo
Miraidon
Necrozma-Dawn-Wings
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane
Ogerpon-Hearthflame
Palkia
Palkia-Origin
Rayquaza
Reshiram
Shaymin-Sky
Sneasler
Solgaleo
Spectrier
Urshifu
Urshifu-Rapid-Strike
Zacian
Zacian-Crowned
Zamazenta-Crowned
Zekrom

Falinks
Gholdengo
Hoopa-U
Komala
Lilligant-Hisui
Regigigas
Smeargle

Moves

Baton Pass
Belly Drum
Last Respects
Quiver Dance
Revival Blessing
Shed Tail
Shell Smash
Rage Fist

Abilities

Arena Trap
Contrary
Huge Power
Magnet Pull
Moody
Neutralizing Gas
Pure Power
Shadow Tag
Sheer Force
Speed Boost
Stakeout
Stench
Unburden
Water Bubble

Items

King's Rock
Razor Fang

Watchlist

Watchlist:

Pokemon

Frosmoth
/ Kommo-O/Numel (At least one banned)
Manaphy
Persian-Alola
Slaking
Veluza
Zamazenta

Moves

Boomburst

Abilities

Poison Heal

Items

Damp Rock
Heat Rock

Imposter should at least be on the watchlist (and possibly Transform as well). Imposter Chansey can be extremely powerful if you're not prepared for it, and imposterproofing is going to be harder here than in BH. Transform Chansey could be good as well, and unlike Imposter it doesn't require wasting a slot on Ditto (Mew also learns Transform).

 

[VannAccessible]

This is what I'm thinking for a starting banlist:

Banlist

Definately Banned:

Pokemon

Arceus
Baxcalibur
Calyrex-Ice
Calyrex-Shadow
Chien-Pao
Chi-Yu
Deoxys
Deoxys-Attack
Dialga
Dialga-Origin
Eternatus
Flutter Mane
Giratina
Giratina-Origin
Gouging Fire
Groudon
Ho-Oh
Iron Bundle
Koraidon
Kyogre
Kyurem-Black
Kyurem-White
Lugia
Lunala
Magearna
Mewtwo
Miraidon
Necrozma-Dawn-Wings
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane
Ogerpon-Hearthflame
Palkia
Palkia-Origin
Rayquaza
Reshiram
Shaymin-Sky
Sneasler
Solgaleo
Spectrier
Urshifu
Urshifu-Rapid-Strike
Zacian
Zacian-Crowned
Zamazenta-Crowned
Zekrom

Falinks
Gholdengo
Hoopa-U
Komala
Lilligant-Hisui
Regigigas
Smeargle

Moves

Baton Pass
Belly Drum
Last Respects
Quiver Dance
Revival Blessing
Shed Tail
Shell Smash
Rage Fist

Abilities

Arena Trap
Contrary
Huge Power
Magnet Pull
Moody
Neutralizing Gas
Pure Power
Shadow Tag
Sheer Force
Speed Boost
Stakeout
Stench
Unburden
Water Bubble

Items

King's Rock
Razor Fang

Watchlist

Watchlist:

Pokemon

Frosmoth
/ Kommo-O/Numel (At least one banned)
Manaphy
Persian-Alola
Slaking
Veluza
Zamazenta

Moves

Boomburst

Abilities

Poison Heal

Items

Damp Rock
Heat Rock

Looks pretty good to me.

I tried to made a testable challenge code based off this, although the implementation of limiting your sets to traded moves and abilities is subject to the honor system.

Tera is currently enabled, if you wanted no Tera, add ",Terastal Clause" at the end.

Both Kommo-O and Numel are currently enabled, but if you had to pick only one for legality, I’d say get rid of Kommo-O. Numel is a much bigger liability once trading away Simple.

How's it look? Anyone see any adjustments to be made?

Skill Shift Testing Challenge Code

/challenge [user],gen9balancedhackmons@@@-Arceus,-Baxcalibur,-Calyrex-Ice,-Calyrex-Shadow,-Chien-Pao,-Chi-Yu,-Deoxys,-Deoxys-Attack,-Dialga,-Dialga-Origin,-Eternatus,-Falinks,-Flutter Mane,-Gholdengo,-Giratina,-Giratina-Origin,-Gouging Fire,-Groudon,-Ho-Oh,-Hoopa-Unbound,-Iron Bundle,-Komala,-Koraidon,-Kyogre,-Kyurem-Black,-Kyurem-White,-Lilligant-Hisui,-Lugia,-Lunala,-Magearna,-Mewtwo,-Miraidon,-Necrozma-Dawn-Wings,-Necrozma,-Dusk-Mane,-Ogerpon-Hearthflame,-Palkia,-Palkia-Origin,-Rayquaza,-Reshiram,-Regigigas,-Shaymin-Sky,-Smeargle,-Sneasler,-Solgaleo,-Spectrier,-Urshifu,-Urshifu-Rapid-Strike,-Zacian,-Zacian-Crowned,-Zamazenta-Crowned,-Zekrom,-BatonPass,-BellyDrum,-LastRespects,-QuiverDance,-RevivalBlessing,-ShedTail,-ShellSmash,-RageFist,-Arena Trap,-Contrary,-Huge Power,-Magnet Pull,-Moody,-Neutralizing Gas,-Pure Power,-Shadow Tag,-Sheer Force,-Speed Boost,-Stakeout,-Stench,-Unburden,-Water Bubble,-king's rock,-razorfang, Standard OMs,Evasion Abilities Clause,Evasion Items Clause,Sleep Moves Clause,Hackmons Forme Legality

 

[AintTellingUNothing]

This is what I'm thinking for a starting banlist:

Banlist

Definately Banned:

Pokemon

Arceus
Baxcalibur
Calyrex-Ice
Calyrex-Shadow
Chien-Pao
Chi-Yu
Deoxys
Deoxys-Attack
Dialga
Dialga-Origin
Eternatus
Flutter Mane
Giratina
Giratina-Origin
Gouging Fire
Groudon
Ho-Oh
Iron Bundle
Koraidon
Kyogre
Kyurem-Black
Kyurem-White
Lugia
Lunala
Magearna
Mewtwo
Miraidon
Necrozma-Dawn-Wings
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane
Ogerpon-Hearthflame
Palkia
Palkia-Origin
Rayquaza
Reshiram
Shaymin-Sky
Sneasler
Solgaleo
Spectrier
Urshifu
Urshifu-Rapid-Strike
Zacian
Zacian-Crowned
Zamazenta-Crowned
Zekrom

Falinks
Gholdengo
Hoopa-U
Komala
Lilligant-Hisui
Regigigas
Smeargle

Moves

Baton Pass
Belly Drum
Last Respects
Quiver Dance
Revival Blessing
Shed Tail
Shell Smash
Rage Fist

Abilities

Arena Trap
Contrary
Huge Power
Magnet Pull
Moody
Neutralizing Gas
Pure Power
Shadow Tag
Sheer Force
Speed Boost
Stakeout
Stench
Unburden
Water Bubble

Items

King's Rock
Razor Fang

Watchlist

Watchlist:

Pokemon

Frosmoth
/ Kommo-O/Numel (At least one banned)
Manaphy
Persian-Alola
Slaking
Veluza
Zamazenta

Moves

Boomburst

Abilities

Poison Heal

Items

Damp Rock
Heat Rock

I'm slightly surprised that shift gear wasn't mentioned, +2 speed and +1 attack sounds threatening on a BO mon like Great Tusk.

Also with Falinx and Liligant-H being banned, I think it's a bit fairer to ban the moves that make them overpowered instead of the pokemon themselves, because then they are a lot more balanced.

Also if Numel gets banned, I already have watched enough Dracomenace videos to know that simple beam + trace on another mon is very dangerous.

 

[AintTellingUNothing]

No roaring moon is interesting. I know it's been banned only recently but technician moon is really powerful with scale shot and bite being boosted
(bite is really funny, it becomes a 90bp STAB move with a really good flinch chance.)
Moon is good because of its stats, not necessarily its movepool and ability. Massive attack and good speed makes it an absolute menace. Imagine giving it a better ability then Protosynthesis.