Can you guys please update this list after this suspect? Maybe will be useful for system discussion, at least for my future post. Thanks in advance.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 ( NEW SURVEY UP, POST 20,700 )
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
Got reqs by haxing my way through the last climb (do not want to deal with thoughts on reqs rn), and realized that I have very little to say about Moon because I used a team that's pretty overprepared for it and also I don't think I faced a single bulky Fairy Moon on my entire run. So I'm not going to post about that, leaning towards DNB, but I do want to post what seems to be a bit of a hot take about a mon that I think is underexplored atm.
Okay, so my take is that Neutralizing Gas Gweezing kinda sucks, and Levitate Gweezing kinda rocks. Look, I get it. Levitate variants are not reliable removal against Ghold hazard-stack, and you really, really need to have a gameplan against that or you're going to get run over. But for me, I will take that because Levitate makes Gweezing go from not checking anything to suddenly checking everything. Neutralizing Gas is not stopping
, EQ variants of 
or 
, and Levitate not only makes you one of the sturdiest possible answers into all of them, but it also makes you a really nice scout into 
/
(Fairy resist and Ground immune), hard walls 
except for the sets that do like 23% with Stone Edge, very reliably stops 
from getting up hazards while keeping it low, makes you a genuinely decent emergency option against 
, hard walls 
so badly it's not even funny, it's not even funny, all things that Neutralizing Gas just cannot dream of doing. PLUS, you have the coveted combo of spikes immunity without a rocks weakness, which frees you up to run an actually good item, like lefties/sludge or helmet.
I've been playing around with this mon for a bit now because to me, once you stop trying to make this mon the magic answer to the tier's hazard issues and start accepting the fact that Poison-Fairy typing with a Ground immunity is preposterous, you suddenly get a really reliable check to a whole pile of the tier's scary options. It's a similar-ish matchup spread and removal niche to
, except you trade being able to recover and pivot on Ghold for actually being able to cripple switch-ins with status, since you can pick between Wisp and Toxic. And what really unlocked this mon, for me, is seeing it on that one 
/
team, which loads up on Wisp elsewhere on the team so that you have room to run Toxic, and now special attackers that would otherwise shrug off a Strange Steam or a Wisp now actually get crippled (Prim and Zap being huge).
Just from a building perspective, I feel like things that can blanket check most of the tier's physical threats in one slot without being set-up fodder or ruined by Knock is really, really valuable. Pech, Zap, Mola, Corv all kinda fit this and have been used for that purpose on one team or another, but they're all really passive into certain things that they really do not want to be passive into. So's Gweezing, even if your opponent has to guess which status move you're running, but I actually think that with Levitate it offers a ton of role compression that's pretty versatile on any team that has a solid gameplan against Ghold, and especially Ghold hazard-stack.
Weezing-Galar @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Strange Steam
- Toxic/Will-O-Wisp
- Defog
- Pain Split
Okay, so my take is that Neutralizing Gas Gweezing kinda sucks, and Levitate Gweezing kinda rocks. Look, I get it. Levitate variants are not reliable removal against Ghold hazard-stack, and you really, really need to have a gameplan against that or you're going to get run over. But for me, I will take that because Levitate makes Gweezing go from not checking anything to suddenly checking everything. Neutralizing Gas is not stopping
, EQ variants of or , and Levitate not only makes you one of the sturdiest possible answers into all of them, but it also makes you a really nice scout into / (Fairy resist and Ground immune), hard walls except for the sets that do like 23% with Stone Edge, very reliably stops from getting up hazards while keeping it low, makes you a genuinely decent emergency option against , hard walls so badly it's not even funny, it's not even funny, all things that Neutralizing Gas just cannot dream of doing. PLUS, you have the coveted combo of spikes immunity without a rocks weakness, which frees you up to run an actually good item, like lefties/sludge or helmet.I've been playing around with this mon for a bit now because to me, once you stop trying to make this mon the magic answer to the tier's hazard issues and start accepting the fact that Poison-Fairy typing with a Ground immunity is preposterous, you suddenly get a really reliable check to a whole pile of the tier's scary options. It's a similar-ish matchup spread and removal niche to
, except you trade being able to recover and pivot on Ghold for actually being able to cripple switch-ins with status, since you can pick between Wisp and Toxic. And what really unlocked this mon, for me, is seeing it on that one / team, which loads up on Wisp elsewhere on the team so that you have room to run Toxic, and now special attackers that would otherwise shrug off a Strange Steam or a Wisp now actually get crippled (Prim and Zap being huge).Just from a building perspective, I feel like things that can blanket check most of the tier's physical threats in one slot without being set-up fodder or ruined by Knock is really, really valuable. Pech, Zap, Mola, Corv all kinda fit this and have been used for that purpose on one team or another, but they're all really passive into certain things that they really do not want to be passive into. So's Gweezing, even if your opponent has to guess which status move you're running, but I actually think that with Levitate it offers a ton of role compression that's pretty versatile on any team that has a solid gameplan against Ghold, and especially Ghold hazard-stack.
Weezing-Galar @ Rocky HelmetAbility: Levitate
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Strange Steam
- Toxic/Will-O-Wisp
- Defog
- Pain Split
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Gas lets you do a lot of other cool stuff beyond just defogging on Ghold, it denies Gliscor Poison heal, stops regenerator healing, lets you status Blissey and stop natural cure, you can wisp Garg, you ignore Gambit's overlord boost as well as booster energy proto/quark drive boosts, clef can't status absorb because you turn off magic guard so it takes hazards coming in, etc.Got recs by haxing my way through the last climb (do not want to deal with thoughts on recs rn), and realized that I have very little to say about Moon because I used a team that's pretty overprepared for it and also I don't think I faced a single bulky Fairy Moon on my entire run. So I'm not going to post about that, leaning towards DNB, but I do want to post what seems to be a bit of a hot take about a mon that I think is underexplored atm.
Okay, so my take is that Neutralizing Gas Gweezing kinda sucks, and Levitate Gweezing kinda rocks. Look, I get it. Levitate variants are not reliable removal against Ghold hazard-stack, and you really, really need to have a gameplan against that or you're going to get run over. But for me, I will take that because Levitate makes Gweezing go from not checking anything to suddenly checking everything. Neutralizing Gas is not stopping
I've been playing around with this mon for a bit now because to me, once you stop trying to make this mon the magic answer to the tier's hazard issues and start accepting the fact that Poison-Fairy typing with a Ground immunity is preposterous, you suddenly get a really reliable check to a whole pile of the tier's scary options. It's a similar-ish matchup spread and removal niche to
Just from a building perspective, I feel like things that can blanket check most of the tier's physical threats in one slot without being set-up fodder or ruined by Knock is really, really valuable. Pech, Zap, Mola, Corv all kinda fit this and have been used for that purpose on one team or another, but they're all really passive into certain things that they really do not want to be passive into. So's Gweezing, even if your opponent has to guess which status move you're running, but I actually think that with Levitate it offers a ton of role compression that's pretty versatile on any team that has a solid gameplan against Ghold, and especially Ghold hazard-stack.
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Strange Steam
- Toxic/Will-O-Wisp
- Defog
- Pain Split
Typically the types of teams that Geezing fits best on already have some form of ground immunity, see spl and ladder, lots of geezing + corv or geezing + scor. I do think levitate Geezing can be pretty cool, I've seen it sometimes on ladder and it always surprises me with how much its able to get done, just needs to be on the right team.
One under-appreciated aspect of neutralising gas is how bad Hamurott's damage is without sharpness, and that is a mon Weezy-G really wants to switch in on well.
The biggest issue I've run into with Weezing is just how hard Glowking bricks it. You make zero progress, and you have to switch out on its chilly reception every time, there is no punish. I tried toxic spikes as a punish, but roughly half of OU is immune to poison.
The biggest issue I've run into with Weezing is just how hard Glowking bricks it. You make zero progress, and you have to switch out on its chilly reception every time, there is no punish. I tried toxic spikes as a punish, but roughly half of OU is immune to poison.
Geezing can't directly harm glowking, but what you can do is switch in geezing as soon as glowking is going to click chilly reception. This will mean that glowking won't be able to regen off it's damage, allowing teammates such as raging bolt to much more easily break glowking as it now has to deal with coming in at 70% or less hp.
Today i present, the doomsday of stall
Chi-tu (Iron Moth) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overheat
- Flamethrower
- Sludge Wave
- Dazzling Gleam/U-turn
We as a playerbase should run this on sun more instead of justifying the usage of leavanny on an OU team, Moth serves as a powerful wallbreaker that ravages common switch ins such as Galarian slowking, Gliscor and Clodsire whilst also acting as a potent late game cleaner, Tera fire allows it to terminate even more switch ins like ting lu and even blissey (overheat after the spa drop still does around 30.3 - 35.8%) but its recommeded that you use it with caution since tera is very important (especially against rain). Iron moth serves as a good teammate for walking wake since it can wear down and scorch its checks, allowing wake to clean up after with its powerful hydro steam. It also appreciates the stealth rock from torkoal (the tier’s best drought user) that allows it to 2hko and OHKO more pokemon and is complimented by torkoal’s ability to remove hazards that chip into it. Dazzling gleam allows it to hit great tusk and dragon types for super effective damage whilst u-turn allows for pivoting to take advantage of switc ins like garganacl.
timid is used over modest to prevent it from getting outsped by an overwhelming majority of the metagame but modest can be run in order to completely embarrass stall since it relies on constant switching which moth punishes with its flamethrower and overheat, but this struggles against other teamstyles due to its inability to eliminate pokemon like enamorus or iron crown
Heres the full team that I run this set on:
https://pokepast.es/9be9dc29266d3659
Chi-tu (Iron Moth) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overheat
- Flamethrower
- Sludge Wave
- Dazzling Gleam/U-turn
We as a playerbase should run this on sun more instead of justifying the usage of leavanny on an OU team, Moth serves as a powerful wallbreaker that ravages common switch ins such as Galarian slowking, Gliscor and Clodsire whilst also acting as a potent late game cleaner, Tera fire allows it to terminate even more switch ins like ting lu and even blissey (overheat after the spa drop still does around 30.3 - 35.8%) but its recommeded that you use it with caution since tera is very important (especially against rain). Iron moth serves as a good teammate for walking wake since it can wear down and scorch its checks, allowing wake to clean up after with its powerful hydro steam. It also appreciates the stealth rock from torkoal (the tier’s best drought user) that allows it to 2hko and OHKO more pokemon and is complimented by torkoal’s ability to remove hazards that chip into it. Dazzling gleam allows it to hit great tusk and dragon types for super effective damage whilst u-turn allows for pivoting to take advantage of switc ins like garganacl.
timid is used over modest to prevent it from getting outsped by an overwhelming majority of the metagame but modest can be run in order to completely embarrass stall since it relies on constant switching which moth punishes with its flamethrower and overheat, but this struggles against other teamstyles due to its inability to eliminate pokemon like enamorus or iron crown
Heres the full team that I run this set on:
https://pokepast.es/9be9dc29266d3659
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Good post i used Levitate gweez on a team i attempted reqs with. The lack of real healing hurts. With recovery it would be a very reliable mon. A mostly passive mon without recovery isn't something I can use well personally but probably skill issue as I went through like 40 alts trying to get reqs. Since you commented on using it as a check instead of magic has shouldn't you even run sludge bomb instead of defog so that you can really surely counter Moon after tera fairy?Got reqs by haxing my way through the last climb (do not want to deal with thoughts on reqs rn), and realized that I have very little to say about Moon because I used a team that's pretty overprepared for it and also I don't think I faced a single bulky Fairy Moon on my entire run. So I'm not going to post about that, leaning towards DNB, but I do want to post what seems to be a bit of a hot take about a mon that I think is underexplored atm.
Okay, so my take is that Neutralizing Gas Gweezing kinda sucks, and Levitate Gweezing kinda rocks. Look, I get it. Levitate variants are not reliable removal against Ghold hazard-stack, and you really, really need to have a gameplan against that or you're going to get run over. But for me, I will take that because Levitate makes Gweezing go from not checking anything to suddenly checking everything. Neutralizing Gas is not stopping
I've been playing around with this mon for a bit now because to me, once you stop trying to make this mon the magic answer to the tier's hazard issues and start accepting the fact that Poison-Fairy typing with a Ground immunity is preposterous, you suddenly get a really reliable check to a whole pile of the tier's scary options. It's a similar-ish matchup spread and removal niche to
Just from a building perspective, I feel like things that can blanket check most of the tier's physical threats in one slot without being set-up fodder or ruined by Knock is really, really valuable. Pech, Zap, Mola, Corv all kinda fit this and have been used for that purpose on one team or another, but they're all really passive into certain things that they really do not want to be passive into. So's Gweezing, even if your opponent has to guess which status move you're running, but I actually think that with Levitate it offers a ton of role compression that's pretty versatile on any team that has a solid gameplan against Ghold, and especially Ghold hazard-stack.
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Strange Steam
- Toxic/Will-O-Wisp
- Defog
- Pain Split
Just ran into a Tera Blast Fairy DD EQ + Roost Dragonite. The people who think banning Moon is going to solve the tier have another thing coming. Please dear god suspect this fat son of a bitch already.
As a non-stall player, how is this the doomsday of stall?Today i present, the doomsday of stall
Chi-tu (Iron Moth) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overheat
- Flamethrower
- Sludge Wave
- Dazzling Gleam/U-turn
We as a playerbase should run this on sun more instead of justifying the usage of leavanny on an OU team, Moth serves as a powerful wallbreaker that ravages common switch ins such as Galarian slowking, Gliscor and Clodsire whilst also acting as a potent late game cleaner, Tera fire allows it to terminate even more switch ins like ting lu and even blissey (overheat after the spa drop still does around 30.3 - 35.8%) but its recommeded that you use it with caution since tera is very important (especially against rain). Iron moth serves as a good teammate for walking wake since it can wear down and scorch its checks, allowing wake to clean up after with its powerful hydro steam. It also appreciates the stealth rock from torkoal (the tier’s best drought user) that allows it to 2hko and OHKO more pokemon and is complimented by torkoal’s ability to remove hazards that chip into it. Dazzling gleam allows it to hit great tusk and dragon types for super effective damage whilst u-turn allows for pivoting to take advantage of switc ins like garganacl.
timid is used over modest to prevent it from getting outsped by an overwhelming majority of the metagame but modest can be run in order to completely embarrass stall since it relies on constant switching which moth punishes with its flamethrower and overheat, but this struggles against other teamstyles due to its inability to eliminate pokemon like enamorus or iron crown
Heres the full team that I run this set on:
https://pokepast.es/9be9dc29266d3659
252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Fire Iron Moth Overheat vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey in Sun: 394-464 (60.4 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Fire Iron Moth Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey in Sun: 394-464 (55.1 - 64.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Fire Iron Moth Overheat vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire in Sun: 486-572 (104.9 - 123.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I think it does a decent job of pressuring special walls no?
You guys do know that Modest Specs Wake does the same without falling over instantly to hazards, right?
Anyways, I’ve noticed a distinct lack of Sinsitcha during my suspect run, and a lack of discussion around it in general, so how are we feeling about it? Still a good defensive piece of the tier, or has it been replaced by other options like Pecharunt?
Anyways, I’ve noticed a distinct lack of Sinsitcha during my suspect run, and a lack of discussion around it in general, so how are we feeling about it? Still a good defensive piece of the tier, or has it been replaced by other options like Pecharunt?
Whilst its true Modest spec wake handles hazards better, it also lacks the speed that timid specs moth does (if I wasn’t concerned about that, I would have run modest iron moth which can threaten blissey and ting lu without tera) which prevents it from grabbing KOs on faster pokemon like enamorus or iron crown and Sun is often already using proto speed wake to clean or revenge kill, whilst wake is competition, its not outright putting moth out of a job
About Sinistcha, its possibly because it needs tera to beat roaring moon which is at the top of all discussion and rules over ladder, its cm sets are still heat so once the suspect is over, we may hear discussion about it, pecharunt is the premier defensive ghost but doesn’t get cm or a draining move like Sinistcha
For what it's worth, I literally never knew about the Neutralizing Gas/Booster Energy interaction, although even knowing that Levitate's still better if you want to answer +Atk Moon or Tusk, even with Neutralizing Gas you still get OHKO'd by a +1 Bolt, you can't touch Moth either way, and nothing else really runs Booster sets for the boost to the attacking stat except for some niche sets (+Atk Treads 2HKOs you with either ability, +SpA Wake on weatherless is fake but also why is Gweezing staying in on this mon either way, +SpA Val is also fake but admittedly Neutralizing Gas is better there). Being able to status Garg is definitely really valuable, although I will say that Gweezing even with Levitate can still spam Pain Split and just drain Recovers, keep it low, and never die unless the Garg gets a bunch of turns right (or has a Gholdengo, in which case we're back where we started).
I don't contest the value of denying Regen, and while Levitate does sit on utility Gliscor sets forever I definitely do not deny the value of seriously threatening SD Scor instead of just being setup fodder. Those are really useful traits for a hyperspecialist on a team that's running several other mons to be a defensive backbone. Clearly those teams are working too; Gweezing has a 70% winrate in SPL this year, mostly on teams where it's loaded up with things like Mola, Lu, Gliscor/Corv and some wincons, we've all seen those builds for ages (and literally as I am typing this Myjava loaded that exact build in his SPL tiebreak game). My point is more that it fills a very specific niche on those teams, which really value being able to remove on Ghold and which can accommodate for it being incredibly passive and forced out by everything because the rest of the backbone is so strong, and Levitate can be more depended on as an actual part of that backbone because it just covers a wider range of threats, it just doesn't have the good teams right now.
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It’ll get a clean 50% off on bliss which is no joke but after it gets -2 they’ll just switch in their alo or glowking and take 0. Wouldn’t running fiery dance + overheat with booster be better at pressuring stall? Get a boost on blissey and then just ko it with overheat or threaten the switch in with a boosted overheat instead of already being -2
I have decided to give up attempting reqs, that fact that one loss before a 10 win streak is enough to shut down a run is too much especially since its not exactly easy to get a winning streak in gen 9 ou, if I didn’t procrastinate for no reason, I may have been able to vote what I wanted to vote, but I didn’t until it was too late. Maybe I should have put the weather teams I made to work instead of relying on predictable sample teams, but I didn’t. I shouldn’t do things like this and frankly I don’t think I will again.
Enjoy your dnb result guys, I quit the run
Enjoy your dnb result guys, I quit the run
The Calcs are off since they don't take into account the SpA drop
252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Fire Iron Moth Overheat over 2 turns vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey in Sun: 592-698 (90.7 - 107%) -- 40.6% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Fire Iron Moth Overheat over 2 turns vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey in Sun: 592-698 (82.9 - 97.7%) -- not a KO
Also, from all Gweezing's Abilities, I feel Misty Surge is the most underrated. Misty Terrain is a great terrain and allows teams to beat most stall builds that rely on rest Dondozo. It also helps soften blows from powerful Dragon type attacks like Raging Bolt/Wake Dragon Pulse/Draco Meteor
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Tera Fairy Raging Bolt Dragon Pulse vs. -1 0 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk in Misty Terrain: 256-303 (69 - 81.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This allows Great Tusk to come in on Raging Bolt and not Worry about it using defensive Tera to shift the game
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Okidogi chads are playing the long game. Once another user of EQ goes in the form of Roaring Moon that's one less 'check' to its sets. Closer and closer to OU status and overthrowing Zamazenta.
Sini is a mon I have a great deal of respect for, I've used it a ton over my span of time but ppl are definitely too fixated on Pecha to respect the differences between the two. Reliable healing that debuffs the enemy is never not good, and its ability to set up is great. If Ogerpon weren't in the tier we'd likely see a ton more of it (remove Woger)
Semi-related but this is probably why I use a heat corviknight set:
Corviknight (F) @ Covert CloakAbility: Mirror Armor
Tera Type: Fairy/Water/Dark
EVs: 252 Hp / 4 Atk / 252 Spdef
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Power Trip
- Brave Bird
- Roost
Mirror Armor can catch 
sinistcha off guard, and from previous interactions iirc. Can also get the heal off from it so basically a double L for sinistcha using Strength Sap. Although Mirror Armor can be a double-edged sword, as any 
grimm or other Parting Shot users like 
pecharunt can use this to their advantage and phaze out corviknight. This set isn't good in general obviously but under the right conditions, it can prove it's worth! ^^
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correct me if im wrong, i thought mirror armor parting shot still pivots out the user of parting shot, but also drops them first. The interaction that's like that is magic bounce parting shot, and most of the parting shot users (just pecha tbh) would rather just attack hatt and go for poisonSemi-related but this is probably why I use a heat corviknight set:
Ability: Mirror Armor
Tera Type: Fairy/Water/Dark
EVs: 252 Hp / 4 Atk / 252 Spdef
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Power Trip
- Brave Bird
- Roost
Yeah just checked it out, it seems like Generation VII and onward mentions that the user will switch out regardless if the stat debuff gets bounced or not.
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A predicted flamethrower on the switch in, followed by tera fire on the make it rain and stab flamethrower, does in fact kill the Gholdengo. Frequently not worth a tera, but worth considering tera fire for on levitate Weezing.
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