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Metagame USUM Pure Hackmons
- Thread starter NToTheN
- Start date
yes, but every mon can be stopped by sth else and dark types are genuinely easier to pick off by trappers as none of them have insane bulk and also first impression is a good move on rkiller trappers. its a late game sweeper and as mmy can be like 3000 sets if you dont show them you opponent wont know
I agree with most part of these. Bulky NGs are really goofy as once it is revealed wrongly, this thing is basically useless.no guard vr because I highly disagree with the former one.
In this vr I would list their sets and explain a bit why are they good (WIP)
S rank
https://pokepast.es/28ceab88eb190562
S- rank
https://pokepast.es/e0e0b6003a606b86
A+ rank
A rank
(zygarde,slowbro, etc... all those defensive mon that is able to run prankster set)
A- rank
B+ rank
B rank
Solgaleo might actually be similar to kart as a NG, a take that someone finally agrees with. Solgaleo's bulk is real cool as a not too slow NG. NG Kart shouldn't be too high up due to it's inability to rip any competent balance team and it doesn't do much crap against HO teams as well. The meta changed, kart didn't get any better.
No Guard MMY can run 2-3 coverage (Zap, Inferno, LTBTS???) with it's good speed tier and SpA with Fissure/Sheer Cold really makes it a good NG.
Honestly, DeoS can be even lower, any team that is standard should be able to deal with it (let it be pbond mgengar or COB coming back with Scarf BUp)
For kart, I know it’s controversial but MMY is definitely in the spot it deserves.
MLop is finally put in place it deserves.
Fire VR
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Im gonna add the explain later but I want to point out scarf deos at a crazy speed tier of 756 can actually revenge kill a lot of thing at +2 spe which is mainly why its in the same tier as phero
the thing with bulky ngs is that now you have better mu against ho as you can check what you could have check while putting on great offensive pressure thus preventing opposing mons to just setup in front of you. And also surprise factor matters.
man all the vrs have been taken JUST KIDDING TYPE VR TIME
S Tier
Dark- This type is one of the single best special walling types in the format. MGyara has been amazing since Gen 6 because of this.
Grass- This type is immune to Spore. It's also one of the types of Kartana. Do I need to say anything else?
Steel- Another Kartana type. Also, TSpike immunity is nice. STAB on Sunsteel is the real kicker, though.
Ghost- Immune to FakeSpeed, STAB on Moongeist Beam, super effective against the Mewtwos, and is completely immune to MMX's Fighting STAB.
A Tier
Psychic- A great type with STAB on Photon Geyser and a terrain boost. The only thing holding it back is that it has bad type matchups.
Normal- Being immune to Moongeist Beam matters a lot, especially on Ghost-weak spamming HO teams. It's also Chansey and MAud's types.
Fire- This type doesn't really give much defensive merit outside of a Sunsteel resist, but STAB on V-Create and friends along with hitting two S Tier types for super effective damage is great.
Ground- Ground is one of the single best (if not the best) offensive types in all of Pokémon. It also gets STAB on the Thousand moves, which is always welcomed.
Water- I initially forgot about this one but realized after typing Fairy that Water was a great Pure Hackmons type. Resist on Sunsteel is always great, and Water is only hit by Grass and Electric for super effective damage, two scarce types in the format.
B Tier
Fighting- A type with a U-Turn resist is nice, and you can hit a ton of types (Dark, Steel, Normal, Rock, Ice) for super effective.
Flying- Spike and Webs immunity is nice, however the only Ground move you're realistically avoiding is Thousand Waves.
Fairy- I know you guys will hate me for this one, but IMO Fairy is a B-tier type in Pure Hackmons due to its glaring Sunsteel weakness and not many defensive matchups that actually matter. However, I have to credit PixiFakeSpeed for hitting most meta Pokémon for huge damage.
Bug- U-Turn STAB I guess? Not much to say here.
Electric- I personally hate Zap Cannon but I will put it here because people will diss me otherwise.
C Tier
Dragon- For all the amazing Dragon-types, in Pure Hackmons, a Dragon typing is pretty stinky. For starters, you're weak to PixiFakeSpeed, you get 1HKO'd or 2HKO'd by Kartana or MMX's Ice Shard, and finally, Dragon just doesn't have the type matchups to keep up. If you want a dragon on your team, just use PDon. It's close enough.
Poison- Shut up Poison. Nobody likes you.
Ice- Name two good things about the Ice type. Stuck? This is a trick question. Ice types literally only have one thing going for them: a Sheer Cold immunity. Nothing else. Nada.
D Tier
Rock- The only half decent Rock type is Mega Aerodactyl, since Shuckle is easily outclassed by the likes of Zygod and Giratina.
???- It has a teeny niche offensively, but most of that niche got stripped away when USUM introduced Moldy Moves. It has a slightly bigger niche as a Wonder Guard, but still so niche that I don't think anyone has gotten to #1 with a ??? type.
S Tier
Dark- This type is one of the single best special walling types in the format. MGyara has been amazing since Gen 6 because of this.
Grass- This type is immune to Spore. It's also one of the types of Kartana. Do I need to say anything else?
Steel- Another Kartana type. Also, TSpike immunity is nice. STAB on Sunsteel is the real kicker, though.
Ghost- Immune to FakeSpeed, STAB on Moongeist Beam, super effective against the Mewtwos, and is completely immune to MMX's Fighting STAB.
A Tier
Psychic- A great type with STAB on Photon Geyser and a terrain boost. The only thing holding it back is that it has bad type matchups.
Normal- Being immune to Moongeist Beam matters a lot, especially on Ghost-weak spamming HO teams. It's also Chansey and MAud's types.
Fire- This type doesn't really give much defensive merit outside of a Sunsteel resist, but STAB on V-Create and friends along with hitting two S Tier types for super effective damage is great.
Ground- Ground is one of the single best (if not the best) offensive types in all of Pokémon. It also gets STAB on the Thousand moves, which is always welcomed.
Water- I initially forgot about this one but realized after typing Fairy that Water was a great Pure Hackmons type. Resist on Sunsteel is always great, and Water is only hit by Grass and Electric for super effective damage, two scarce types in the format.
B Tier
Fighting- A type with a U-Turn resist is nice, and you can hit a ton of types (Dark, Steel, Normal, Rock, Ice) for super effective.
Flying- Spike and Webs immunity is nice, however the only Ground move you're realistically avoiding is Thousand Waves.
Fairy- I know you guys will hate me for this one, but IMO Fairy is a B-tier type in Pure Hackmons due to its glaring Sunsteel weakness and not many defensive matchups that actually matter. However, I have to credit PixiFakeSpeed for hitting most meta Pokémon for huge damage.
Bug- U-Turn STAB I guess? Not much to say here.
Electric- I personally hate Zap Cannon but I will put it here because people will diss me otherwise.
C Tier
Dragon- For all the amazing Dragon-types, in Pure Hackmons, a Dragon typing is pretty stinky. For starters, you're weak to PixiFakeSpeed, you get 1HKO'd or 2HKO'd by Kartana or MMX's Ice Shard, and finally, Dragon just doesn't have the type matchups to keep up. If you want a dragon on your team, just use PDon. It's close enough.
Poison- Shut up Poison. Nobody likes you.
Ice- Name two good things about the Ice type. Stuck? This is a trick question. Ice types literally only have one thing going for them: a Sheer Cold immunity. Nothing else. Nada.
D Tier
Rock- The only half decent Rock type is Mega Aerodactyl, since Shuckle is easily outclassed by the likes of Zygod and Giratina.
???- It has a teeny niche offensively, but most of that niche got stripped away when USUM introduced Moldy Moves. It has a slightly bigger niche as a Wonder Guard, but still so niche that I don't think anyone has gotten to #1 with a ??? type.
Could I have an explanation why petal blizzard is used over leaf blade? Just curious because last time I checked leaf blade has a heightened chance to crit and petal blizzard has Jack shit.
cries in mega diancie
I ran out of teams to add to posts to stop them from becoming one-liners, so I'm just gonna share a very goofy set which I definitely deserve to be banned from the kitchen for making.
Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Imprison
- Taunt
- U-turn
- Fissure
Absolutely hate WG pivots? Don't believe in the existence of Shed Shell? Love gambling cough Gold0987 ? Well I have the set for you. Scout your opponent's WG's pivot move with Imp, click Imprison or Taunt depending on what it is, then just land a 30% accurate move. You only get one shot, so I would practise gambling by playing Gen 1 PH (2nd best meta of all time btw, only behind Fox Only Final Destination).
I like it but that’s not what I wanted to say. Poison is actually a great type which deserves high B tier and here's why :
- Poison gives 3 useful resistances, Bug so poison resists both UTurn and FImp, Fighting for the weirdos using Fighting STAB MMX (I'm joking I also use CC MMX ok) and finally fairy because FakeSpeedPixie can be dangerous.
These 3 resistances make great defensive synergies with dark giving mons like AMuk despite being weak to psychic AND resisting no MoldyMoves (Poison, not AMuk)
- It absorbs TSpikes and TSpikes SUCKS
- It’s not THAT great on itself but it combines effectively with other types to give top tier mons. We already saw that for AMuk but I'd like to talk about my favourite usum ph pokemon (neither Exca nor MSci) MEGA GENGAR. It’s STAB Moongeist is great but does 0 damage to (potentially) the best WG user (talking 'bout MAud, not Melo). And here's poison to get super effective damage on that [[Double Barrel Shotgun User]].
Poison also makes MGar a really cool user of Choice Scarf. With the Scarf MGar is the FASTEST mon in the game (considering non-boosted mons) so prioritiy moves suck. Here, poison gives FImp resist and FakeSpeedPixie double resist which is great with FakeSpeed (and MachPunch ig) immunities. Thus makes MGar an amazing priorities checker since the only good priorities that hit it are SNeak (super effective so that sucks tbh) and Ice Shard
You're STag, how the hell do you hit opposing WGs ??
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Doesn’t seem that off I just have few questions : why is psychic above Steel and Ghost, why is fairy above grass AND WHY IS POISON THAT LOW ??
Imo Psychic<2 other types because steel resists 2 MoldyMoves and MGeist hits neutral on Steel and super effective on Ghost and Psychic plus both resist FImp which Psychic is weak to and both are either resistant or immune to FakeSpeed
Grass > Fairy because Spore immune and STAB super effective on all WG water is really cool
Lastely, why is there neither D nor E Tier ?
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zap cannon fans gonna hate on you for this one
But in all seriousness, Psychic is generally only the best option on Psychic Terrain, and avoiding webs is a huge deal unless you want your sweeper to have Full Metal Body.
Here's my type VR because the 2 I saw were awful in some ways (I wanted to explain all my choices but I realised it'd take too much time so there's only steel explaination, so feel free to ask why I made such choices) :
This a VR of what types are good to have, nothing about how good are attacks of those types neither about a ranking of typing depending of the ranking of their mons (Zygod is pretty good but still, I don’t think dragon is a good typing on itself)
S Tier
Steel
Ghost
Dark
Psychic
A Tier
Normal
Fire
Grass
Ground
B Tier
Poison
Water
Fairy
Fighting
Flying
C Tier
Ice
Bug
Electric
D Tier
Dragon
Rock
This a VR of what types are good to have, nothing about how good are attacks of those types neither about a ranking of typing depending of the ranking of their mons (Zygod is pretty good but still, I don’t think dragon is a good typing on itself)
S Tier
Steel
Awesome resists : All FakeSpeed except galvanize but it’s not real, FImp and UTurn and BBuzz, Rocks resist and TSpikes immunity, resists 2 MoldyMoves and the 3rd one is neutral. SS has no immunities
Dark
Psychic
A Tier
Normal
Fire
Grass
Ground
B Tier
Poison
Water
Fairy
Fighting
Flying
C Tier
Ice
Bug
Electric
D Tier
Dragon
Rock
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Yes, Mega Gengar is good, sure. AMuk is good, sure. But here's why Poison is objectively a bad type:
1: Poison is weak to Psychic, meaning if you are not also Dark, you will likely get 1HKO'd by Photon Geyser. This makes it a bad Wonder Guard type.
2: The users of a specific type do not define the usefulness of said type. Take Kingambit for example. It's a complete monster in OU. However, does that make Steel/Dark a good type? No. It's hot garbage. Same goes for Kyurem and Weavile.
3: If you really want to go by that (horrible) analogy, though, I have even more evidence. There are only two Poison types on the current VR. Let's look at everything else in B: Fighting: 4 mons. Flying: 4 mons. Fairy: 4 mons. Bug: 3 mons. Electric:
4: Finally, Poison is horrible offensively. It hits two types for super effective damage: Grass, which is usually paired with Steel, and Fairy. Fairy is a decent type to hit, sure. But you know what else hits Fairy? Steel. And you know what moves Steel types spam? Sunsteel Strike.
So there. That's why Poison is bad. Goodbye.
(edit) I forgot one more thing. Poison absorbing TSpike is actually not a big deal, as Steel and Flying types are immune to it anyway, and those are substantially better than Poison.
I never said that because AMuk and MGar were good that poison was good, I meant they are good becausr they are poison. MGar would still be decent without poison but poison helps, and AMuk would be hot garbage without it.
For the rest tho, I agree
psychic have mmx mmy the deos and tons of other mons that can utilitize photon and psysurge
honestly under S tier is sorted by the order of when I remembered them within each tier
Steel and dark type is fuking good asf I have to point that out. steel type as a counter to fairy type which is the biggest concern of sucker punch spammers before zama was out. And back in gen 6 when kingambit wasn't out bisharp is almost in every ho team thanks to its GREAT typing. And I do think we should be ranking types based of mons. bc afterall you cant create a mon and use it and I honesty dont understand about weavile if you are talking about ou and Im even more confused if its about ph.
I was going to rant about Lando-T, Great Tusk, Cinderace, and Zamazenta but this is the Pure Hackmons thread so fine I won't explain how there are >3 meta Pokemon in OU that can absolutely destroy Steel/Dark.
Also this is a type VR you're turning it into a mon VR
Types cant be ranked without the base of the existance of mons.
Like you can say a ghosy type mmy would be great but it doesnt exist
petal blizzard is non contact and everybody else says that's more important then the crit chance so I just copied everybody else's opinion.
Types can be ranked without the base existence of mons. For example, the fact that MMX is good doesn't justify how horrible Psychic's matchups are.
why is grass this high, kartana? if you put grass in a-rank because of kartana then i find this to be pretty weird and inconsistent with the rest of your rankings because you ranked posion and dragon so low despite there being top tier mons with the types (mgar and zygod). defensively grass offers pretty much nothing other then being an alr pair with steel (ferrothorn). offensively you'd only consider it on huge power sets, and without the stab you'd usually want to use other types that hit similar targets such as bug and electric.
dragon and rock being as low as they are feels really weird. yeah ik dragon only hits zygod which already loses to ice so it becomes pointless as coverage on huge power and special attackers and defensively it offers absolutely nothing, but clangsoul exists so i just don't think it can go this low. also if grass is ranked as high as it is because kartana exists and has the type then dragon should be higher because zygod exists and has the type. my issue with putting rocks this low is stealth rock but if u ignore then then yeah this ranking is fine.
another case of if grass is this high because kartana exists and has the type, then posion should be higher up because mgar exists and has the type. ignoring that tho i think posion this high up is pretty wild like defensively it can only accomplish anything with the dark type, and muk is not in the best spot at the minute anyways. offensively you only hit 1 mon super effectively and the only time you would need to consider using a posion move is on mgeist users because photon and sunsteel beat maud.
bug type is not this low, this is probably one of the most outrageous rankings here. defensively i'll admit it doesn't much tho with steel it's atleast usable (scizor). offensively is where the bug type really shines tho being solid coverage on huge power guys, special photon guys, and geist guys. great coverage on huge power to hit mbro and darks in the same slot, and pairs really well with fire. great coverage on special photon because it hits darks and psychics, geist runs it to hit the same mons however it is less off a requirement as you can run fighting and still hit the same offensive mons + already murder pure psychics. also worth noting bug gets first impression too. putting it this low was a crime.
dark is too high. i understand it is immune to photon and resists geist which is very cool, however by itself it is weak to common coverage from both geist and photon. the types you do pair with dark to cover up it's weakness to common coverage bring other issues, like dark poison's fissure weakness (muk) or dark flying's sheer cold and rocks weakness (yveltal).
i could probably nitpick more but i cba so i'll leave it there.
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This a VR of what types are good to have, nothing about how good are attacks of those types neither about a ranking of typing depending of the ranking of their mons (Zygod is pretty good but still, I don’t think dragon is a good typing on itself)
For Rock : no matter what type you are Stealth Rocks will fo the same same both dragon and rocks will keep their places. You can consider dragon as high D+ ig.
I think Grass is cool because of Spore Immune and useful STAB but yeah, I ranked it to high B Tier
For dragon : Outside of soulblaze it kinda does nothing, the only good thing with it is VCreate resist usefull on zygod. Except OHKOing Zyg with SoulBlaze you don’t need Dragon as offensive type. Soulblaze is cool but usable outside of dragon type so being dragon type isn’t really helpful
For Rock : no matter what type you are Stealth Rocks will fo the same same both dragon and rocks will keep their places. You can consider dragon as high D+ ig.
I think poison's place is good, it offers a lot to MGar and AMuk (and other dark poison) but outside of both it doesn't do much, poison doesn’t make MDrill a top tier mon, it only gives it TSpikes absorb. I already explain what I thought about poison and won’t change my mind.
Yeah I should have explain it earlier, just check what I said at the beginning of the post. Bug coverage is great but being a bug doesn't help much
Yup, I see what you mean but a lot of mons with a single type would be grateful to get a second dark type. It has a lot of annoying weaknesses but Prankster immunity is REALLY cool and getting Pursuit STAB to kill Lunala and Bliss on MG is awesome too. I don't see it being a A Tier because of that
MMX is much more consistent and versatile than Kart, you won’t run Imp on HO so imo Bliss is better than chansey as Innards because easier to use as improofUSUM HO VIABILITY RANKINGS
In progress…
S+ RANK
Chansey
View attachment 755896Kartana
S RANK
View attachment 755897Mega mewtwo X
Blissey
A+ RANK
View attachment 755898
View attachment 755900
A RANK
View attachment 755901
You should change S and S+ imo
... As a mmx fanboy this is for sure right! (NOT)
Even though I love this fucker I will not let someone under rank something which is to overwhelming good. I mean Kart is a good mon don't get me wrong, but mmx is just better in most situations and overall. mmx is better at wall breaking in general which is arguably the most important thing on HO, mmx has most versatility with its move sets like when mmx can dip into its special side for some more favorable matchups into physical walls, and mmx can also be used as an arguably better ng then kart which at this point kart Is mostly used for. If anyone want to prove to me Kart is a better ng please prove me wrong. I'm tryna be enlightened by my shitty takes.