Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Yeah if anything it's nice to have a clear purpose for different classes of potions: efficiency-per-currency-spent and efficiency-per-turns-used.
Ethers/Elixers have always been the item class that has stood out to me the most in terms of poor balance/design, and it's been that way from the start. Max Ethers would be very useful for the Squirtle that's leaning on the 25pp Water Gun, while regular Ethers are just fine for the Blastoise's 5pp Hydro Pump, but your increasing access to the stronger class of items over the course of the game has an inverse relationship to the frequency in which you'd benefit from them.
Ethers/Elixers have always been the item class that has stood out to me the most in terms of poor balance/design, and it's been that way from the start. Max Ethers would be very useful for the Squirtle that's leaning on the 25pp Water Gun, while regular Ethers are just fine for the Blastoise's 5pp Hydro Pump, but your increasing access to the stronger class of items over the course of the game has an inverse relationship to the frequency in which you'd benefit from them.
The other issue with Ethers and whatnot is that they're kind of rare and usually not purchasable. You can sometimes grind for them but that's generally not efficient. There's also completion from Leppa Berries, which you can (kind of) grind at a consistent rate. Between that, the inverse usefulness scaling that you mentioned, and the fact that the action economy aspect does not matter since you're usually using PP restoring items outside of battle, Ethers and their ilk are in a really weird spot.
i was looking at gen 2 sets on Smogon and saw that Espeon's set was centered around "growth." Which confused me because I didn't think it got the move in the game. And then I read about how it was an event move. And idk. it's hypocritical because the entire advantage of Showdown is that it's wish fulfillment, you can make your team exactly how you want down to a t. but it feels stupid that a Pokemon's entire point in the metagame revolves around a move that 99 percent of players didn't have access to when the games were popular.
i was looking at gen 2 sets on Smogon and saw that Espeon's set was centered around "growth." Which confused me because I didn't think it got the move in the game. And then I read about how it was an event move. And idk. it's hypocritical because the entire advantage of Showdown is that it's wish fulfillment, you can make your team exactly how you want down to a t. but it feels stupid that a Pokemon's entire point in the metagame revolves around a move that 99 percent of players didn't have access to when the games were popular.
i was looking at gen 2 sets on Smogon and saw that Espeon's set was centered around "growth." Which confused me because I didn't think it got the move in the game. And then I read about how it was an event move. And idk. it's hypocritical because the entire advantage of Showdown is that it's wish fulfillment, you can make your team exactly how you want down to a t. but it feels stupid that a Pokemon's entire point in the metagame revolves around a move that 99 percent of players didn't have access to when the games were popular.
Speaking as a guy that once tried to make an entire holiday centered around this Pokémon apparently the actual Espeon Day is August 21st but that’s beside the point, I just wish this thing was dealt a better hand in general. It’s actually pretty solid in Johto, what with being an alternative to Alakazam for players who can’t trade and having decent stats and Psychic actually not being that bad of a type for those games (even Karen runs two Poison-Types and it would have been three if Umbreon didn’t get reworked), but so much of this thing’s competitive history just isn’t that unique to it or even all that useful.
At first glance, Espeon seems like it should be a solid, if unspectacular Pokemon in most generations. Gen 4 was a bit rough for it and some other Psychic-Types in general, but Magic Bounce was a fun addition in Gen 5, Calm Mind means it didn’t get as hurt by the removal of Growth as many of the other Eeveelutions, and I don’t know if this is still true but for a while it was actually better in the current generation than it was in Sword & Shield if we’re going off of our tiering system. Unfortunately, Espeon struggles with a lot of things other Psychic-Types do, and a lot of its strongest appeal comes from strategies that have either been banned (Baton Pass) in most generations or only see inconsistent matchup-dependent success (Screens, Wish, etc.). Even if Alakazam didn’t give Espeon strict competition, base 130 Special Attack and base 110 Speed just isn’t what it used to be, and historically it hasn’t had much in the way of type coverage, any defensive utility (against attacks, specifically, Magic Bounce helps for status moves) or any sort of preferential treatment besides maybe Morning Sun in Gen 2. As an Eeveelution, its matchups with and against the others aren’t strong either. Not only does Espeon tend to not have very strong synergy with some of them, but it’s actually the only one to not having any winning matchups against any other Eeveelution type-wise.
I fear that even in the best case scenario where this thing receives Glitzy Glow (Eevee’s Psychic-Type move from Let’s Go), generational power creep has gone way too far and that Espeon’s only going to be harder to fit into a wider variety of teams. I actually thing it’s somewhat underrated in Doubles, with Magic Bounce helping against certain utility moves and Dual Screens always being fun to build with, but going back to your original point of your post, I agree that it’s probably not good game design for a Pokémon’s entire niche to be based off of specific generational factors like this (provided Growth specifically was an event move, but still).
Not really? No hands, so no punches, and no Psychic STAB until Level 36. Kadabra is slightly slower and weaker but that doesn't matter when it has a movepool and significantly earlier availability.
Not really? No hands, so no punches, and no Psychic STAB until Level 36. Kadabra is slightly slower and weaker but that doesn't matter when it has a movepool and significantly earlier availability.
Hey, I said it was an alternative, not a particularly good one I still think it’s solid in a Johto playthrough relative to the rest of the roster, but being stronger than most Johto Pokémon isn’t saying as much as I would like for it to given what the competition for such a distinction usually involves…
Water-type distribution in general. It's the unfortunate reality of the type's flavor and various decisions made early on in the series, but for most of the lifespan of the series, you could only get most water-type mons after you had access to Surf or the Good/Super Rod. Surf, of course, means that you almost certainly already have a water-type mon on your team. The Super Rod is generally so late-game as to be irrelevant, and Good Rod ALSO is often post-Surf. Which means that for most playthroughs, while Surf mandates you keep a water-type with you at all times, that water type is almost certainly going to be either the starter or whichever water-types are available early-game. It's murder on replayability, but also not really something we can blame the devs over, all the decisions that led to this point are perfectly logical.
Water-type distribution in general. It's the unfortunate reality of the type's flavor and various decisions made early on in the series, but for most of the lifespan of the series, you could only get most water-type mons after you had access to Surf or the Good/Super Rod. Surf, of course, means that you almost certainly already have a water-type mon on your team. The Super Rod is generally so late-game as to be irrelevant, and Good Rod ALSO is often post-Surf. Which means that for most playthroughs, while Surf mandates you keep a water-type with you at all times, that water type is almost certainly going to be either the starter or whichever water-types are available early-game. It's murder on replayability, but also not really something we can blame the devs over, all the decisions that led to this point are perfectly logical.
This is particularly stark in Hoenn when you literally get the Good Rod on the eastern bank of Route 118, likely after you've just used Surf for the first time.
That said, Hoenn isn't terrible for Water-type distribution since Marill, Wingull, Lotad are available in the tall grass (Surskit also exists if you're a masochist). I think Tentacool is available with the Old Rod in some locations but I've never spent much time looking. Johto is similarly good for Waters pre-fishing; Wooper, Slowpoke, Poliwag, Psyduck, Marill, and Corsola can all be found on land (as can Vaporeon if you're exceedingly resourceful - Qwilfish is also available via the Old Rod if you get a mass outbreak)
This is particularly stark in Hoenn when you literally get the Good Rod on the eastern bank of Route 118, likely after you've just used Surf for the first time.
That said, Hoenn isn't terrible for Water-type distribution since Marill, Wingull, Lotad are available in the tall grass (Surskit also exists if you're a masochist). I think Tentacool is available with the Old Rod in some locations but I've never spent much time looking. Johto is similarly good for Waters pre-fishing; Wooper, Slowpoke, Poliwag, Psyduck, Marill, and Corsola can all be found on land (as can Vaporeon if you're exceedingly resourceful - Qwilfish is also available via the Old Rod if you get a mass outbreak)
I'm putting together a look at this because i was curious and gotta say, the Old Rod is way more flexible in Johto than I remembered
Poliwag, Magikarp, Goldeen, Tentacool, Krabby are all available in locations in & around where you get the Rod.
You still get the Good Rod at approximately the time you get Surf, but it feels less egregious thanks to this change & a few land encounters, and thus feels more like you just got 2 more options around mid-game for water types.
It's a bit offset by the water types that evolve with items, though...but still!
Water-type distribution in general. It's the unfortunate reality of the type's flavor and various decisions made early on in the series, but for most of the lifespan of the series, you could only get most water-type mons after you had access to Surf or the Good/Super Rod. Surf, of course, means that you almost certainly already have a water-type mon on your team. The Super Rod is generally so late-game as to be irrelevant, and Good Rod ALSO is often post-Surf. Which means that for most playthroughs, while Surf mandates you keep a water-type with you at all times, that water type is almost certainly going to be either the starter or whichever water-types are available early-game. It's murder on replayability, but also not really something we can blame the devs over, all the decisions that led to this point are perfectly logical.
I made a post talking about water types in another section of Smogon. To summarize, the type itself originally was such a large umbrella that certain types of designs that were less exciting, such as fish, would fly under the radar. By the same umbrella-esque concepts, there's so much competition amongst water types that "mid" water Pokemon with unremarkable designs will fly under the radar. And to cap it off, many of the designs, especially fish, are relegated to annoying encounter methods such as being spammed when surfing or having to use a specific fishing rod to encounter.
Fishing before you could look up encounter tables must have been very annoying due to the lack of variety, combined with the rarity of exciting encounters. And surfing is the one area you encounter wild pokemon where half of them are underleveled and not worth fighting.
I'm putting together a look at this because i was curious and gotta say, the Old Rod is way more flexible in Johto than I remembered
Poliwag, Magikarp, Goldeen, Tentacool, Krabby are all available in locations in & around where you get the Rod.
You still get the Good Rod at approximately the time you get Surf, but it feels less egregious thanks to this change & a few land encounters, and thus feels more like you just got 2 more options around mid-game for water types.
It's a bit offset by the water types that evolve with items, though...but still!
I think if Chinchou or Mantine came a little bit earlier, they'd be more liked. I used Lanturn in a playthrough of Crystal and loved it, but it's never been given a premiere placement. And Mantine runs into the problem of you getting a Shiny version of another Water/Flying type that will be higher leveled around the same time in-game.
I'm putting together a look at this because i was curious and gotta say, the Old Rod is way more flexible in Johto than I remembered
Poliwag, Magikarp, Goldeen, Tentacool, Krabby are all available in locations in & around where you get the Rod.
You still get the Good Rod at approximately the time you get Surf, but it feels less egregious thanks to this change & a few land encounters, and thus feels more like you just got 2 more options around mid-game for water types.
It's a bit offset by the water types that evolve with items, though...but still!
I've always really appreciated the Old Rod in Johto, and I'm surprised that most of the games after it opted to go the Kanto route and just have it spawn endless Magikarp. It introduces a nice amount of early-game variety in a game that's sorely lacking for variety otherwise, and encourages the player to actually engage with fishing as a mechanic. By contrast, in basically every other game with fishing, you'll fish once or twice, pull up Magikarp, and dismiss the mechanic out of turn unless you're actually invested in completing the Pokedex or are trying to hunt down a specific Water type for your team just because the Old Rod leaves that bad of a first impression.
Alright so I was really curious so I looked through the first 5 gens to see what the distribution was really like and how it changed. I called it there since regional dexes started getting really big & this got really tedious.
I kind of went vibes based on how many I listed off .
I’m lumping all these games together because it’s going to cover a lot of the same ground.
Methods:
Just playing the game walking around
Old Rod: Vermillion City. Not available in Let’s Go
Good Rod: Fuschia City. Not available in Let’s Go.
Super Rod: Route 12, earliest is approximately around midgame after obtaining the PokeFlute (but during which you can also go directly to Fuschia). Not available in Let’s Go.
Surfing (Sea Skim): Fuschia City, must defeat Koga
Squritle line
RB/FRLG: Start of the game, must choose
Yellow: Obtain by Vermillion City
Let’s Go: Can obtain as a Rare Spawn on Routes 24/25 (Cerulean), gifted at Vermillion
Psyduck line
RB: Super Rod encounter
FRLG: Super Rod, Surfing, walking encounters but only in post-Surf locations like Seafoam or the Sevii Islands. Version exclusive to FR.
Yellow: Surfing encounter
Let’s Go: Numerous routes starting at Route 4. Starts as 5% encounter but gets more common by Cerulean’s routes
Poliwag:
RB/FRLG/Yellow: Good & Super Rod encounters
Special Note: Japanese Blue allows you to get one early on the underground path on Route 5 as a trade for a Rattata
Let’s Go: Surfing
Tentacool:
RB/Yellow: Surfing, Super Rod
FRLG/Let’s Go: Exclusively Surfing
Slowpoke:
RB: Walking in Seafoam, Super Rod
FRLG: Surfing, Super Rod and can be found walking around in several post-surf Locations. Version exclusive to LG
Yellow: walking in Seafoam, Surfing
Let’s Go: Walking in Seafoam
Seel:
RB/FRLG/Yellow/Let’s Go: Seafoam. Trade on Cinnabar in RB/FRLG
Shellder:
RB: Seafoam, Super rod
FRLG/Yellow: Super Rod. Version exclusive to FR
Let’s Go: Seafoam (Surfing)
Krabby:
RB: Super Rod, Seafoam but only in Blue for some reason
FRLG: Good Rod, Super Rod, Surfing in Seafoam but only in LG for some reason
Yellow:Super Rod, Seafoam
Let’s Go: Land encounters starting on Route 10 (reasonable encounter rates)
Horsea:
RB: Seafoam, Super Rod
Yellow: Super Rod
FRLG: Good Rod, Super Rod
Let’s Go: Surfing
Goldeen:
RB/FRLG/Yellow: Good Rod, Super Rod
Let’s Go: Surfing (& only on Route 6? Weird.)
Staryu:
RB: Seafoam, Super Rod
Yellow: Surfing, Super Rod
FRLG: Super Rod. Version exclusive to LG.
Let’s Go: Surfing
Magikarp:
RB/FRLG/Yellow: Buy at Mt Moon. Old Rod. (& other rods depending on game)
Let’s Go: buy at Mt Moon. Surfing.
Lapras:
RB/FRLG/Yellow: Silph Co (at minimum requires getting to Celadon first)
Let’s Go: Silph Co, Surfing
Vaporeon:
RB/FRLG/Yellow: Celadon
Let’s Go: Route 17 since that’s the first place to catch an Eevee you can evolve, but effectively Celadon
Omanyte:
RB/FRLG/Yellow/Let’s Go: Cinnabar
Kabuto:
RB/FRLG/Yellow/Let’s Go: Cinnabar
This feels the worst offender. It takes a while to even get the Old Rod, then you're able to get the Good, Super & Surf all in quick succession.
You can see that Let's Go, which got rid of the Rod entirely, actually helped clean this up a bit, have more defined split between pre-surf and post-surf.
Personally I think the ideal Rod placement would've been Old Rod in Cerulean, just as a joke. Like you got "scammed" by 500 dollars and then get the infinite magikarp machine. Then get the Good Rod in Vermillion so you can still get access to a fair number of the rest, then Surf & Super Rod for late game.
Just playing the game walking around
Old Rod: Route 32
Good Rod: Olivine
Super Rod: Route 12 (Post game)
Surfing: Ecruteak, must defeat Morty
Totodile:
GS/Crystal/HGSS: Start of the game, must choose
Wooper:
GS/Crystal/HGSS: Route 32 (some extra near by areas depending on game)
Note: You can get Wooper through the Primo event in Violet City as well in HGSS
Poliwag:*
GS/HGSS: Old Rod
Crystal: Route 30/31 at Night, Old Rod
Magikarp:
GS/Crystal/HGSS: Old Rod
Goldeen:
GS/Crystal/HGSS: Old Rod
Slowpoke:*
GS/Crystal/HGSS: Slowpoke Well
Marill:
GS: Mt Mortar, 1% unless it’s a Swarm encounter
Crystal: Route 42/Mt Mortar, Night or Surfing encounter
HGSS: Mt Mortar (Swarm) or Safari Zone
Qwilfish:
GS/Crystal/HGSS: Swarm on Route 32 (any rod), Super Rod at standard rates otherwsie
Tentacool:
GS/Crystal/HGSS: Old Rod
Krabby:
GS/Crystal/HGSS: Old Rod
Staryu:*
GS/Crystal/HGSS: Good Rod
Shellder:*
GS/Crystal/HGSS: Good Rod
Corsola:
GS/Crystal/HGSS: Good Rod
Remoraid:
GS/Crystal: Route 44 (Swarm or with Super Rod)
HGSS: Route 44(Swarm, or with Good Rod)
Chinchou:
GS/Crystal/HGSS: Good Rod
Seel:
GS/Crystal/HGSS: Whirl Islands
Horsea:
GS/Crystal/HGSS: Whirl Islands (Fishing)
Mantine:
GS/Crystal/HGSS: Surfing (not in Silver)
Lapras:
GS/Crystal/HGSS: Union Cave (friday, with Surf)
Suicune:
GS: As early as Ecruteak
Crystal: The static Tin Tower encounter
HGSS: Post game, after Misty
The Fossils & Squirtle are either post-game or trade exclusive
...however
Poliwrath, Cloyster, Vaporeon, Starmie with the Water Stone:
GS: Post-game (& Mystery Gift) only
Crystal: Random gift from Route 42’s Tully
HGSS: Pokeathlon, Route 42’s Tully
Politoed, Slowking with the King’s Rock
GS/Crystal: Slowpoke Well after getting Surf, 2% held item on Slowpoke technically means as early as your first visit. But. 2%...
HGSS: Pick-Up (requires Meowth or Aipom for earliest acquistion), Pokethlon, Slowpoke Well after getting Surf
Kingdra with the Dragon’s Scale:
GS/Crystal/HGSS: Mt Mortar, held items
As noted before, Johto is actually pretty good! It has more on-land encounters, especially in Crystal, and a really good suite of Old Rod Pokemon available right after Falkner. The bigger issue is evolution items.
Just playing the game walking around
Old Rod: Dewford
Good Rod: Route 118 (after Surf)
Super Rod: Mossdeep
Surfing: Must defeat Norman
Diving: Mossdeep, must defeat Liza & Tate
Mudkip:
RSE/ORAS: Start of the game, must choose
Lotad:*
RSE/ORAS: Route 102 (Not in Ruby/OR)
Wingull:
RSE/ORAS: Route 103
Surskit (loses Water on evolution):
RSE/ORAS: Route 102 (not in Emerald normally)
NOTE: ORAS can get a guaranteed Surskit on 102 with the PokeNav
Goldeen:
RSE/ORAS: Old Rod
Magikarp:
RSE/ORAS: Old Rod
Marill:
RSE/ORAS: Route 117
Tentacool:
RSE/ORAS: Old Rod
Carvanha:
RSE/ORAS: Good Rod
Wailmer:
RSE/ORAS: Good Rod
Barboach:
RSE/ORAS: Good Rod
Corphish:
RSE/ORAS: Good Rod
Feebas:
RSE/ORAS: Route 119 fishing. You know the score on this one
Staryu:*
RSE/ORAS: Lilycove (Super Rod only)
Psyduck:
RSE/ORAS: Safari Zone
Spheal:
RSE/ORAS: Shoal Cave
Clamperl:
RSE/ORAS: Dive
Relicanth:
RSE/ORAS: Dive
Corsola:
RSE/ORAS: Super Rod and the worst trade
Chnchou:
RSE/ORAS: Dive
Luvdisc:
RSE/ORAS: Route 128 with Good Rod
Horsea:
RSE/ORAS: Super Rod
Kyogre:
RS/ORAS: Sootopolis, climax. Not in Ruby, obviously.
Emerald: Post-game
Ludicolo, Starmie with the Water Stone
RSE: Abandoned Ship (shards require after Lilycove and also Dive)
ORAS: Various side content but none of it is super easy or consistent
Kingdra with Dragon’s Scale:
RSE: 5% held by Horsea/Seadra
ORAS: 5% held by Horsea/Seadra, Sky Pillar (post game)
DeepSea items:
RSE: Scanner sidequest
ORAS: Miragle Caves, 5% held by Carvanha/Sharpedo.
Bit of a step back. It's nice the Old Rod can still get you Tentacool & Goldeen, but so much of the water types are held off until after Norman. I think we can fix a lot of this by putting the Good Rod on the other side of Route 118.
Just playing the game walking around
Old Rod: Jubilife
Good Rod: Hearthome, firstish visit
Super Rod: Post-game
Surfing: Celestic Town (needs Fantina (DP)/Wake(Pt))
Piplup line:
DPPt: Start of the game, must choose
Bidoof (Bibarel):
DPPt: man it’s everywhere. Evolves at Level 15, likely between Roark & Gardenia
Magikarp:
DPPt: Old rod
Psyduck:
DPPt: Oreburght Gate
Buizel:
DPPt: Route 205/Valley Windworks
Shellos:
DPPt: Route 205/Valley Windworks
Goldeen:
DPPt: Good Rod
Barboach:
DPPt: Good Rod
Wooper:
DPPt: Route 212/Great Marsh (approx the same time)
BDSP: Route 212/Great Marsh/Underground after Defog
Wingull:
DPPt: Route 213
BDSP: Route 213, Underground after Defog
Marill:
DP/BDSP: Trophy Garden/Great marsh (approx the same time)
Pt: Route 215 (also on 212 but this is earlier iirc)
Remoraid:
DPPt/BDSP: Good Rod (but around Pastoria)
Finneon:
DPPt/BDSP: Good Rod
Tentacool:
DPPt/BDSP: Surfing
Feebas:
DPPt/BDSP: Mt Coronet with Surfing/Fishing you know the score
Mantyke:
DPPt/BDSP: Route 223 Surfing
Palkia:
DP/BDSP: the climax (pearl only)
Pt: Post-game
Manaphy:
DPPt/BDSP: Event
Rotom-Wash:
DP: N/A
Pt: Not a water type (event only otherwise)
BDSP: Post-game
Vaporeon:
Pt: Hearthome. Water stone is Solaceon Ruins (& the underground (but that sucks))
Not that many Water types, huh? But not that bad a divide. Have a nice set of land encounters and the Good Rod isn't too deep into the game.
Ignoring the Dreamworld since it lets you grab most things in relatively recent times, though only some of the Gen 5 Pokemon were available and only in BW2.
Just playing the game walking around
Rod: Post-game
Surfing: Twist Mountain/Route 6 (BW1)
Oshawott:
BW1/2: Start of the game, must choose
Panpour:
BW1: Dream yard gift if you picked Snivy, Pinwheel Forest (shaking) otherwise. Water Stone in Castelia, dust clouds otherwise
BW2: Lostlorn Forest (shaking)
Vaporeon: Castelia (as Eevee, Water Stone is in Clay Tunnel or Route 19)
Buizel: Surfing, earliest backtrack is to Lostlorn Forest
Pelipper: Route 13/22
Mantyke: Surfing (Route 21)
Remoraid: Surfing (Route 21)
Corsola: Surfing (Humilau)
Staryu: Surfing (Route 13/Undella; Water Stone is in Clay Tunnel or Route 19)
Wailmer: Surfing (Undella Bay)
Lapras: Surfing (Village Bridge)
Spheal: Surfing (Undella Bay; WINTER ONLY)
Seel: Surfing (Seaside Cave)
Corphish: Post-Game
BW1 doesnt have that many Water Types and there's no Rod, so I think it handled itself pretty well. So many in BW2 are locked behind Surf though, and all the ocean routes are on the back half of the game.
BTW while the early Dream World levels do have water types, I should mention that the Sparkling Sea in BW1 required 8 gym badges. lmao.
Water-type distribution in general. It's the unfortunate reality of the type's flavor and various decisions made early on in the series, but for most of the lifespan of the series, you could only get most water-type mons after you had access to Surf or the Good/Super Rod. Surf, of course, means that you almost certainly already have a water-type mon on your team. The Super Rod is generally so late-game as to be irrelevant, and Good Rod ALSO is often post-Surf. Which means that for most playthroughs, while Surf mandates you keep a water-type with you at all times, that water type is almost certainly going to be either the starter or whichever water-types are available early-game. It's murder on replayability, but also not really something we can blame the devs over, all the decisions that led to this point are perfectly logical.
One thing that annoyed me was how TMs are supposed to work in the anime and games. Not how to, but like the process of it.
Thing with TMs are that it's a disc, but how are trainers supposed to teach a pokemon with it? It's not like a Pokemon has a visible disc tray that they enter the disc in. I can understand if it was the Porygon family, but it's a virtual pokemon created by programming, so i suppose it would have the ability to accept data such as discs.
One thing that annoyed me was how TMs are supposed to work in the anime and games. Not how to, but like the process of it.
Thing with TMs are that it's a disc, but how are trainers supposed to teach a pokemon with it? It's not like a Pokemon has a visible disc tray that they enter the disc in. I can understand if it was the Porygon family, but it's a virtual pokemon created by programming, so i suppose it would have the ability to accept data such as discs.
My interpretation was that the disc is hooked up to the Pokeball through an unseen port (like hooking up an external hard drive to a computer), which scans the information of the move and imparts it to the Pokemon inside. That's just based on how FRLG depicts it though.
Tentacool can be found with the Old Rod on Routes 103, 115, 106, 107, 109, 110, 118, and in Dewford and Slateport prior to getting Surf.
You can also find Goldeen on Routes 102, 117, 111, 114, and in Petalburg and Meteor Falls.
My interpretation was that the disc is hooked up to the Pokeball through an unseen port (like hooking up an external hard drive to a computer), which scans the information of the move and imparts it to the Pokemon inside. That's just based on how FRLG depicts it though.
I do enjoy that we have to jump through hoops on this because it just cannot be what is literally depicted, which is placing the TM on the forehead and absorbing the knowledge
Which honestly might even be how it's always meant to work? There is one bit of OG TM artwork from GEn 1 and it's presented as a band, but never how you wear it. If it's meant to be like, a head band, then that'd be another instance of it requiring you to just place it on and absorb the knowledge.
Meanwhile The TCG's TMs used to be shown as a box you place a ball into, but then it's just a box without a ball in it. And they were using this weird cube set up through gen 4, even though by that point we'd long shifted over to CDs. And the TCG is closely made with the series...??
...not that electric tale of pikachu is a bastion of canon, but, it's all weird. Someone keep hacking gamefreak until we uncover the TM lore documents.
This has always been the biggest farce in the game.
Pokemon is "Cockfighting, But For Kids." The whole premise is to just capture critters and force them into combat against each other. On the one hand, this is handwaved away and justified during the introductory scene with an explicit statement that "Pokemon love to fight." But on the other hand, Blue is scolded by Oak at the end of the game because he supposedly "doesn't care" about his Pokemon in the same way that the player does... when it's never once established that the two of them have done anything differently in their respective quests, at least when it concerns their Pokemon specifically. We never see Blue "mistreat" any of his Pokemon. It's never even implied. And there's not one single thing that the player has to do throughout the game to prove some kind of meaningful bond with his party. If anything, you're incentivized to shrewdly discard the deadweight on your team and optimize for battle success, much like Blue would do.
If RBY was serious at all about its themes, then it either wouldn't allow you to capture Mewtwo, or it'd punish you for doing so / reward you for declining the opportunity.
Commented here because it's a flimsy basis for a Movepool oddity/want, given they changed the animation to be stationary later.
Why give it this Sprite if it's not allowed to learn Rapid Spin? If the mon's going to be ubiquitous in so many Gens where it appears, let it do some good instead of evil for Singles. Lord knows Gen 9 would benefit from this on defense but I also do NOT want another Spiker without a Hazard removal change.
Commented here because it's a flimsy basis for a Movepool oddity/want, given they changed the animation to be stationary later.
Why give it this Sprite if it's not allowed to learn Rapid Spin? If the mon's going to be ubiquitous in so many Gens where it appears, let it do some good instead of evil for Singles. Lord knows Gen 9 would benefit from this on defense but I also do NOT want another Spiker without a Hazard removal change.
...given the move explicitly mentions a high-speed spin (a rapid one, even), this just further makes me question it.
Looking at level up learnsets, a lot of mons that learn Rapid Spin naturally but not Gyro Ball in some fashion usually have some theme of spinning but not quite in a round body manner (be it orb or Wheel like) for a while, though it feels like around Gen 7 they just sort of gave up and threw the moves to whoever.
- Galarian Mr. Mime (Ballet/Ice Skating spin)
- Excadrill (name says it)
- Cryogonal (Snowflake shaped, probably would break itself on collision vs sweeping)
- Bounsweet line (see G-Mime most likely for Tsareena)
- Komala (got me here. Guess it's tossing and turning?)
- Pheromosa (see kickers, and it's a stick)
- Gossifleur (how does this thing even spin vs getting Defog for this role?)
- Regieleki (barely corporeal, mostly electricity and GO FAST)
- Brambleghast (light weight tumbleweed, almost want to say see Gossifleur)
- Cyclizar (I got nothing, considering Varoom has the opposite interaction. I guess it's not heavy Steel?)
- Great Tusk and Iron Treads (weird exclusions given Donphan has both even in Gen 9 via TM)
But looking at it, up through around Gen 7 or 8, Gyro Ball seemed to have a lot of overlap with natural-Rapid-Spin users that now makes me feel annoyed either at the move flavor denying it wider access to include quite a few GB learners like Electrode, the Jigglypuff line (they're balloons, blunt impact attacking is about as impractical for them as spinning into spikes), or Lickilicky among the rollers. I don't get what this allergy to Spinners is considering it's about as generic an idea as giving Spikes to things (Spin fast vs produce and leave pointy things on demand).
I still think it’s solid in a Johto playthrough relative to the rest of the roster, but being stronger than most Johto Pokémon isn’t saying as much as I would like for it to given what the competition for such a distinction usually involves…
