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Resource SV National Dex UU VR

We've decided to do a VR slate, and here are the shifts!

:Venusaur-Mega:: A -> S
:Ting-Lu:: A -> A+
:Greninja:: A- -> A+
:Scizor:: A- -> A
:Hydrapple:: B+ -> A
:Mienshao:: B+ -> A
:Gardevoir-Mega:: B+ -> A-
:Slowbro:: B+ -> A-
:Aerodactyl-Mega:: B -> A-
:Tyranitar:: B -> A-
:Gallade-Mega:: B -> B+
:Gastrodon:: B -> B+
:Tapu-Fini:: B -> B+
:Serperior:: UR -> B+
:Lokix:: B- -> B
:Okidogi:: B- -> B
:Flygon:: C -> C+
:Dhelmise:: UR -> C+
:Primarina:: UR -> C+
:Krookodile:: UR -> C
:Talonflame:: UR -> C

:Clefable:: S -> A+
:Hippowdon:: A -> A-
:Skarmory:: A -> A-
:Zeraora:: A -> A-
:Alakazam:: A- -> B+
:Amoonguss:: A- -> B+
:Slowking:: A- -> B+
:Victini:: A- -> B+
:Azumarill:: B+ -> B
:Bisharp:: B+ -> B
:Tangrowth:: B+ -> B
:Chansey:: B -> B-
:Pecharunt:: B -> B-
:Skeledirge:: B -> B-
:Thundurus:: B -> B-
:Volcanion:: B -> B-
:Reuniclus:: B- -> C+
:Arcanine-Hisui:: C+ -> C
:Gengar:: C+ -> C
:Sinistcha:: C+ -> C
:Swampert:: C+ -> C
:Grimmsnarl:: A- -> UR
:Latias:: C+ -> UR
:Sableye-Mega:: C+ -> UR
:Conkeldurr:: C -> UR
:Ditto:: C -> UR
:Kleavor:: C -> UR
:Mandibuzz:: C -> UR
:Quagsire:: C -> UR

Notable changes:
:venusaur-mega: :greninja: The frogs If you've seen the recent Radar post, the rises of Greninja and Mega Venusaur shouldn't be that surprising. Greninja is either a deadly win condition with Battle Bond Life Orb, its primary set that has earned it its place in A+, or a very difficult to switch into breaker with Choice Specs Protean, and Mega Venusaur is virtually impossible to take down in one hit due to the lack of good powerful flying or psychic types, while administering heaps of pressure on the opponent with powerful Sludge Bombs, all while checking a number of dangerous threats such as non Extrasensory Greninja, Mienshao, Clefable and Rotom-Wash, all while fitting on everything from Bulky Offense to (the one good) Stall. It is widely regarded to be the best Pokemon in the tier, and this should come to no surprise to anyone who has been actively playing or spectating tours.

:mienshao: Mienshao is a top mon for both its Scarf set and its potent Life Orb set, boasting excellent longevity while it either revenge kills everything or threatens everything, its defensive check really depending on what coverage it's running. Even when there is a good defensive check to it, it can wear its answers down with practically free Life Orb U-turns thanks to Regenerator.

:hydrapple: Hydrapple has had a meteoric rise thanks to its Nasty Plot + Z Move set, which is nigh impossible to check defensively and a chore offensively.

:aerodactyl-mega: While previously overlooked in favour of Zapdos-Galar and often crowded out in favour of other megas, Mega Aerodactyl has more than earned its place in A- as a potent form of speed control and role compression via its Roost+3 Attacks set. With a blistering speed tier, potent dual STABs complimented by Earthquake, and typing that lets it act as a check to Iron Moth, Mega Venusaur and Hydrapple, notably switching into most variants of Iron Moth even in spite of its rocks weakness, besides Booster Speed that gets a Fiery Dance raise as MAero switches into rocks. Roost lets it manage its rocks weakness, but rocks are still annoying for it, keeping it from going higher for now.

:tyranitar: Sand is back in fashion, especially when it makes wearing down Mega Venusaur so much more feasible.

:serperior: When it first dropped, there were calls to ban it. However, given how prepared the meta is to Serperior, it is anything but deserving of one. While on paper Glare sets can cheese past checks, in practice this is rare, and with many teams preparing for it by accident, it's very hard for it to get a Leaf Storm sweep.

:clefable: Mega Venusaur + it's no longer bordering on mandatory for Gapdos. It's still flexible, but the meta is much more hostile towards it right now, with many teams pressuring it with relative ease.

And now let's talk about the Great Tusk in the room: :grimmsnarl:
At some point, Grimmsnarl disappeared from the VR by accident, but last time it was there, it was A-. However, the fact we forgot for so long and nobody thought to mention it is kind of an indicator of why it's going straight to UR. Light Clay is gone, and with it goes screens and the viability of its setters. This just makes it formal. Lmao shadow banned

Voting slate https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ug6KqRsRTy4hChzPKKsfqr2ZgIG8XXQ96VLvKEzcs8c/edit?usp=drivesdk
If there are any questions, feel free to ask.
 
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New VR slate dropped:

:sv/ursaluna: Shifts: :sv/hydrapple:

:clefable: Clefable: A+ -> A
:skarmory: Skarmory: A- -> B+
:zeraora: Zeraora: A- -> B+
:alakazam: Alakazam: B+ -> B-
:gastrodon: Gastrodon: B+ -> B
:hydreigon: Hydreigon: B+ -> B
:slowking: Slowking: B+ -> B
:azumarill: Azumarill: B -> C+
:heracross-mega: Heracross-Mega: B -> C+
:blacephalon: Blacephalon: B- -> C+
:skeledirge: Skeledirge: B- -> C
:thundurus: Thundurus-Incarnate: B- -> C+
:primarina: Primarina: C+ -> C
:slowbro-mega: Slowbro-Mega: C+ -> C
:arcanine-hisui: Arcanine-Hisui: C -> UR
:dracozolt: Dracozolt: C -> UR
:gengar: Gengar: C -> UR
:talonflame: Talonflame: C -> UR
:zarude: Zarude: C -> UR

:celesteela: Celesteela: A -> A+
:hydrapple: Hydrapple: A -> S-
:scizor: Scizor: A -> A+
:aerodactyl-mega: Aerodactyl-Mega: A- -> A+
:slowbro: Slowbro: A- -> A
:tyranitar: Tyranitar: A- -> A
:amoonguss: Amoonguss: B+ -> A-
:gallade-mega: Gallade-Mega: B+ -> A-
:keldeo: Keldeo: B+ -> A-
:serperior: Serperior: B+ -> A-
:jirachi: Jirachi: B- -> B
:hawlucha: Hawlucha: C+ -> B-
:zoroark-hisui: Zoroark-Hisui: C+ -> B-
:sinistcha: Sinistcha: C -> C+
:swampert: Swampert: C -> C+
:arctozolt: Arctozolt: UR -> C

:archaludon: Archaludon: C+
:banette-mega: Banette-Mega: D
:regieleki: Regieleki: D
:shedinja: Shedinja: D
:ursaluna: Ursaluna: A

Notable shifts:
:ursaluna: Ursaluna: A
:clefable: Clefable: A+ -> A
:hydrapple: Hydrapple: A -> S-
:scizor: Scizor: A -> A+
:aerodactyl-mega: Aerodactyl-Mega: A- -> A+
:celesteela: Celesteela: A -> A+
:alakazam: Alakazam: B+ -> B-

Voting slate can be found here

No explanations in this post this time, you'll have to ask in this thread/ask on the Discord if you want to know the reason behind a shift :)
Or you could check the slate comments, and it would probably be faster... but lets revive this thread instead 'kay? :) :)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Niadev said:
New VR slate dropped:

:sv/ursaluna: Shifts: :sv/hydrapple:

:clefable: Clefable: A+ -> A
:skarmory: Skarmory: A- -> B+
:zeraora: Zeraora: A- -> B+
:alakazam: Alakazam: B+ -> B-
:gastrodon: Gastrodon: B+ -> B
:hydreigon: Hydreigon: B+ -> B
:slowking: Slowking: B+ -> B
:azumarill: Azumarill: B -> C+
:heracross-mega: Heracross-Mega: B -> C+
:blacephalon: Blacephalon: B- -> C+
:skeledirge: Skeledirge: B- -> C
:thundurus: Thundurus-Incarnate: B- -> C+
:primarina: Primarina: C+ -> C
:slowbro-mega: Slowbro-Mega: C+ -> C
:arcanine-hisui: Arcanine-Hisui: C -> UR
:dracozolt: Dracozolt: C -> UR
:gengar: Gengar: C -> UR
:talonflame: Talonflame: C -> UR
:zarude: Zarude: C -> UR

:celesteela: Celesteela: A -> A+
:hydrapple: Hydrapple: A -> S-
:scizor: Scizor: A -> A+
:aerodactyl-mega: Aerodactyl-Mega: A- -> A+
:slowbro: Slowbro: A- -> A
:tyranitar: Tyranitar: A- -> A
:amoonguss: Amoonguss: B+ -> A-
:gallade-mega: Gallade-Mega: B+ -> A-
:keldeo: Keldeo: B+ -> A-
:serperior: Serperior: B+ -> A-
:jirachi: Jirachi: B- -> B
:hawlucha: Hawlucha: C+ -> B-
:zoroark-hisui: Zoroark-Hisui: C+ -> B-
:sinistcha: Sinistcha: C -> C+
:swampert: Swampert: C -> C+
:arctozolt: Arctozolt: UR -> C

:archaludon: Archaludon: C+
:banette-mega: Banette-Mega: D
:regieleki: Regieleki: D
:shedinja: Shedinja: D
:ursaluna: Ursaluna: A

Notable shifts:
:ursaluna: Ursaluna: A
:clefable: Clefable: A+ -> A
:hydrapple: Hydrapple: A -> S-
:scizor: Scizor: A -> A+
:aerodactyl-mega: Aerodactyl-Mega: A- -> A+
:celesteela: Celesteela: A -> A+
:alakazam: Alakazam: B+ -> B-

Voting slate can be found here

No explanations in this post this time, you'll have to ask in this thread/ask on the Discord if you want to know the reason behind a shift :)
Or you could check the slate comments, and it would probably be faster... but lets revive this thread instead 'kay? :) :)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse...
I have never played this metagame a single time in my life but I ask what playstyle the meta skews around. Considering Scizor/Alakazam/Mega Aero are great Pokemon I'd assume there's a fair bit of offense, but considering the main meta is Hydrapple/Aegislash/MVenu/Clef I'd also assume the metagame is predominantly balance centric. Is this true? And also, why is Hydrapple so good?
 
RainebowValiant said:
I have never played this metagame a single time in my life but I ask what playstyle the meta skews around. Considering Scizor/Alakazam/Mega Aero are great Pokemon I'd assume there's a fair bit of offense, but considering the main meta is Hydrapple/Aegislash/MVenu/Clef I'd also assume the metagame is predominantly balance centric. Is this true? And also, why is Hydrapple so good?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse...
Its important to note that everyone approaches the metagame differently and sees it differently, even within Council, as can be seen with the different VR rankings on the sheet. Personally, I think there are 3 main pillars to the tier: the Grass-types, Steel-types, and Fighting-types.

The Grasses are Hydrapple, Mega Venusaur, Serperior, and to a lesser extent Amoonguss. These 3 provide a fantastic blend of offensive and defensive utility, able to check Rotom-W and Ting-Lu, two of the most consistent options in the tier. Hydrapple in particular is very powerful due to its absurd bulk, longevity with Regenerator, and breaking power. While counterplay exists for the Grass-types, typically comprised of Celesteela, Scizor, and Aegislash, they are often able to beat these checks long-term, either by overpowering them in the case of Dragonium Z Hydrapple, wearing them down with Knock Off Mega Venusaur, or blasting through them with boosts from Leaf Storm or Paralysis from Serperior.

The Steel-types are the defensive anchors for the tier, checking pretty much any threat. Scizor helps check Iron Boulder and Mega Aerodactyl, but more importantly Mega Venusaur and Hydrapple, while also being an offensive threat. Aegislash is a premier breaker with Ghostium Z and Swords Dance, but plays a defensive role in the tier as well. Celesteela is probably the number 1 defensive Pokemon at the moment, with absurd longevity even with only Leech Seed.

The Fighters are Mienshao, Mega Gallade, and Buzzwole, with Keldeo, Mega Heracross, and Quaquaval a bit further behind. These guys are powerful offensie threats primarily, though Buzzwole serves an important defensive role as well against Swords Dance Aegislash. Every team needs a plan for the Fighting-types, and often they are able to wear down teams long-term.

Currently, the tier is skewed towards Bulky Offense, with Pokemon like Mega Aerodactyl, Mega Venusaur, Mega Gallade, Ting-Lu, Iron Moth, Hydrapple, Aegislash, and Rotom-W at the forefront of the tier. Other playstyles like Sand, Balance, Hyper Offense, and Stall are viable, but personally I think Bulky Offense is the most consistent playstyle available, as it runs just enough defensive utility to handle Hyper Offense teams but packs quite a punch with the ample offensive threats available for use.

Feel free to discuss further or ask anymore questions in the Metagame Discussion Thread.
 
Here's my VR for the metagame from October to now. This is probably the most stable yet centralized iteration of the tier atm, so many of the cheesier picks have generally been phased out. Regardless of what happens in the upcoming tier shifts, I will explain why I put certain stuff there.
my-image (4).png

S Rank
1. :aerodactyl-mega: Mega Aerodactyl - King of the tier. objectively the #1 pokemon as it brings just about everything imaginable in an offensive powerhouse - speed tier, power, recovery and ability to check notable threats such as m-venu / serp / moth in a plum, even being heavily versatile in the sense of being able to mix and match support options for any team, from pursuit for enabling old school combos with other notable threats like keldeo and assisting bulkier teams against major breakers like SD aegi / zam, to stealth rock for its role compression as one of the few good non-ground options (thus freeing up that slot maiojrly, see later), to taunt to mess with its few long-term physically defensive checks.
2. :ting-lu:Ting-Lu - Its just too fucking good. Have ting as my other S rank due to being very similar to m-aero in that its general profile is so widespread and encompassing that it can be tailored to fit on just about anything and still be one of the most important mons in any given battle, from all matter of offense to stall. also worth mentioning is I just about never stick to running max hp max spd sets, as having fast ruin + taunt, spikes, resttalk, some pdef, and coverage sets at your disposal goes a long way in maximizing its desired contributions.

S- Rank
3. :celesteela:Celesteela - The best defensive glue, if not more warping than ting as helped by magnezone teams being down due to being very MU fishy based on the slot, most teams can barely afford >than one switch and is always actively good into the opposing team due to the sheer no of threats it forces out.
4. :hydrapple: Hydrapple - Another tier staple despite me personally thinking it brings more good to the tier than bad, regen + bulk makes this as essential failsafe on a lot of offense teams and its stat distribution can also make it deceptively annoying to prepare for in a vacuum.
5. :rotom-wash: Rotom-Wash
6. :scizor: Scizor


A+ Rank
7. :aegislash: Aegislash
8. :serperior: Serperior - The winratio says it all, I mostly have serp here due to its combination of immediate threat potential (with normal z), speed tier, and ability to soak up pressure from meta threats / defensive cores. the dynamics around glare are also especially defining for a lot of offense teams considering the lack of safe absorbers in the tier and the ease at which its teammates can be built around it.
9. :excadrill: Excadrill

A Rank
10. :Slowbro: Slowbro - And finally to round off the top 10. I find slowbro to be if not the most reliable piece for the role of pdef wall, checking all matter of threats from mienshao (lo u-turn of which only does 10-20% on average given regen) to boulder to celesteela without being as passive as something like defensive m-lati. most teams anchored by slowbro can get a ton of offensive mileage in return as the 50/50s it faces against its few threats like tyranitar barely pop up in practice and even less when options like z moves / resist berries get used.
11. :mienshao: Mienshao
12. :clefable: Clefable - Has fallen off a bit from gallade meta but its sheer longevity is still very much appreciated, especially with knock off sets becoming significantly easier to use. cm in particular is also a major threat in the tier given how few steels/poisons actually want to contest it
13. :venusaur-mega: Mega Venusaur
14. :tyranitar: Tyranitar
15. :keldeo: Keldeo - Another pokemon I find to be especially great to use in the modern meta. Its strong, fast, can easily mix and match boosting items to overwhelm its few dedicated checks, and also has superb natural bulk and resists for clutching in offense v offense faceoffs.
16. :iron moth: Iron Moth - not broken, but actually very scary for a lot of slower teams to face down due to how easily it can setup and find entry into these teams when forgotten, mostly due to booster sets. however, expecting any of tyranitar/aero/ting requires some very creative setups in the builder.
17. :hippowdon: Hippowdon - A notable rise from the low ranks due to how effective pdef focused sets are holding slower squads together, from being a devourer of boosted z moves from exca / aegi to being astonishingly resilient long-term to being incredibly irritating for a lot of generic ting/rotom-w comps.
18. :buzzwole: Buzzwole

A- Rank
19. :latias-mega: Mega Latias - Not the same high ranking pokemon it was previously despite the incredible utility movepool, often struggles with not being able to compensate for either being too frail or passive and also very pursuit and status weak from things its supposed to check a lot of the time.
20. :iron boulder: Iron Boulder - I often find that its way too easy to defensively check by accident --> z-move sets are super picky and aren't even guaranteed to eliminate given targets without excessive hp management, and band struggles compared to other non-choice breakers
21. :tapu fini: Tapu Fini - Misty terrain is hugely underrated as an offensive field condition rn for stopping serp/apple shenanigans and fini's toolkit helps take advantage of this to the fullest.
22. :enamorus: Enamorus
23. :okidogi: Okidogi - A rank gatekeeper. Has the most instances where it flops despite pretty monstrous set variety (band, scarf, av, sub bu, sub 3a) but can also be the most horrifying thing to face long-term, especially for clef/tyranitar/ting based teams.


B+ Rank
24. :amoonguss: Amoonguss
25. :ursaluna: Ursaluna - Guts is always one aggressive double from setting up on tearing through anything that doesn't ohko it in return and bu lefties with a bit spdef investment is surprisingly grotesque as a wincon vs things you'd expect to beat it with. however, I often find that people overestimate its defensive integrity, as luna teams will always compound existing issues into things like wincon aegi and scizor, so its not justifiable enough to run to the extent i'd place it in the A ranks.
26. :victini: Victini
27. :skarmory: Skarmory - suprisingly enough, not the best spiker for the job anymore despite the playstyle's rise. given, it can still very good at doing so into certain offensive comps as one of the few safe scizor and aero answer as dedicated skarm teams can generally overcome its few shoddy MUs into sd aegi / lo mien more easily than others.
28. :alakazam: Alakazam
29. :bisharp: Bisharp - very threatening to opposing offense with sd z-move sets right now and also helps keep a handful of other threats in check with tier's strongest priority + pursuit.
30. :tangrowth: Tangrowth

B Rank
31. :zeraora: Zeraora - you need a very good reason to justify this thing right now, mostly finds itself being caught in an awkward midground when it comes to all its unique traits being taken up by other staple pokemon, from exerting pressure to revenging opposing speedsters.
32. :magnezone: Magnezone
33. :lokix: Lokix
34. :sableye-mega: Mega Sableye - Remember when people thought this was shit? stall teams are very popular right now to the point of its highest level of tournament consistency and m-sab is a big reason why, being huge in maintaining a hazard advantage against most of if not all of the common team structures in the meta as helped by clef being less rocks and more cm. this in turn makes it far easier to stretch the stall comp to accommodate for other troublesome MUs, as seen with the rise of new splashable secondary sponges like av amoong / hoodra / hippo being far easier to fit --> profit. I won't elaborate too much besides this as there's already a handful of replays featuring the standard foundational core + a few more variations to show being highly successful, but right now this mon is hard slept on.
35. :chansey: Chansey
36. :blissey: Blissey - Better than chansey when running toxic/wish sets as lefties is just slurp. bulky offensive comps can also run standard tp sets but not effectively to the extent it outranks the stall niche
37. :mew: Mew - best ho lead right now due to the sheer amount of MUs mew can compensate for by itself
38. :gardevoir-mega: Mega Gardevoir
39. :hydreigon: Hydreigon - has motion with bulky plot / taunt sets on anything fat. garbage mon that's often not worth supporting more than it is outside.
40. :moltres-galar: Moltres-Galar
41. :zoroark-hisui: Zoroark-Hisui - similar to molt-galar in that its hard to fit outside certain 'spam' teams
42. :thundurus: Thundurus - actually pretty easy to get sniped by this thing, just unexplored at this time. lots of teams don't prep for its speed tier + typing so it can be quite easy to lose with good positioning and one turn for plot, rocks be dammed due to these sets always being fight Z.
43. :sinistcha: Sinistcha
44. :pecharunt: Pecharunt - foul play sets should be used more for patching up weak sd aegi / scizor MUs
45. :swampert: Swampert

B- Rank
46. :tapu bulu: Tapu Bulu
47. :archaludon: Archaludon - unexplored but also compresses some valuable things for offense in its handful of approaches
48. :hawlucha: Hawlucha
49. :jirachi: Jirachi - very hard to build a consistent team around as the steel but will hand it to riceman, his jirachi cteams always scare me.
50. :blacephalon: Blacephalon
51. :slowking: Slowking - not a fan of this due to how exploitable it is on the spdef end, but sure is the best type of enabler arcto could've asked for!
52. :arctozolt: Arctozolt
53. :azumarill: Azumarill
54. :gastrodon: Gastrodon
55. :quagsire: Quagsire
56. :volcanion: Volcanion - see: jirachi. however, I will also point out that its a strong pick for dismantling mono aids right now since its hard to touch for those teams
57. :goodra-hisui: Goodra-Hisui - checking celesteela / serp / clef in one slot is very nice and knock is a godsend of an offensive tool with 4a and rest/protect all using it to great effects, just can't make a habit of bringing it due to how polarizing its MU spread is outside of dedicated tier staples.
58. :reuniclus: Reuniclus

Don't have the energy to explain the C ranks at this time and hour (hmu on cord or otherwise for anything here), but will say s/o to Danbear02 for making testing most of these mons/sets a lot of fun!
 
It's been a while, so we've gotten another VR slate out.

New:
:garganacl: Garganacl: NEW -> B+
:iron-crown: Iron-Crown: NEW -> A
:rillaboom: Rillaboom: NEW -> A
:araquanid: Araquanid: UR -> C
:goodra-hisui: Goodra-Hisui: UR -> B-
:quagsire: Quagsire: UR -> C+
:sableye-mega: Sableye-Mega: UR -> B-
:salamence: Salamence: UR -> C+
:glimmora: Glimmora: NEW -> C+

:aegislash: Aegislash: S- -> S
:aerodactyl-mega: Aerodactyl-Mega: A+ -> S-
:excadrill: Excadrill: A -> A+
:slowbro: Slowbro: A -> A+
:hippowdon: Hippowdon: A- -> A
:enamorus: Enamorus: B+ -> A-
:victini: Victini: B+ -> A-
:bisharp: Bisharp: B -> B+
:hydreigon: Hydreigon: B -> B+
:chansey: Chansey: B- -> B
:hawlucha: Hawlucha: B- -> A-
:pecharunt: Pecharunt: B- -> B+
:blacephalon: Blacephalon: C+ -> B
:mew: Mew: C+ -> B-
:swampert: Swampert: C+ -> B
:thundurus: Thundurus: C+ -> B

:venusaur-mega: Venusaur-Mega: S -> A+
:hydrapple: Hydrapple: S- -> A+
:iron-boulder: Iron-Boulder: A+ -> A-
:iron-moth: Iron-Moth: A+ -> A
:latias-mega: Latias-Mega: A -> A-
:ursaluna: Ursaluna: A -> A-
:amoonguss: Amoonguss: A- -> B
:buzzwole: Buzzwole: A- -> B+
:gardevoir-mega: Gardevoir-Mega: A- -> B+
:zeraora: Zeraora: B+ -> B-
:blissey: Blissey: B -> B-
:gastrodon: Gastrodon: B -> C+
:tangrowth: Tangrowth: B -> C+
:tapu-bulu: Tapu-Bulu: B -> C
:alakazam: Alakazam: B- -> C+
:archaludon: Archaludon: C+ -> UR
:azumarill: Azumarill: C+ -> C
:dhelmise: Dhelmise: C+ -> UR
:flygon: Flygon: C+ -> C
:heracross-mega: Heracross-Mega: C+ -> C
:ribombee: Ribombee: C+ -> C
:sinistcha: Sinistcha: C+ -> C
:iron-leaves: Iron-Leaves: C -> UR
:primarina: Primarina: C -> UR
:pelipper: Pelipper: NEW -> UR

:sv/aegislash: :sv/aerodactyl-mega:
Aegislash: S- -> S
Aerodactyl-Mega: A+ -> S-

It shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone who has been playing the meta for any amount of time that these two are deserving of their positions at the top of the VR. Aegislash is a versatile and threatening Pokemon with defensive presence, while Mega Aerodactyl is some of the best speed control in the tier while being threatening in its own right, while offering notable defensive utility in checking Mega Venusaur, Iron Moth.

:sv/venusaur-mega:
Venusaur-Mega: S -> A+

Mega Venusaur has experienced something of a fall off, albeit still one of the best Pokemon in the tier. Mega Aerodactyl not only checks it but offers tremendous competition for the mega slot, as it too fits on many of the same playstyles as Mega Venusaur.

:sv/hydrapple:
Hydrapple: S- -> A+

Offense is on the rise, and Hydrapple isn't as great into that as it is into fat. It also faces competition from new grass Rillaboom on BO, who is a capable breaker in its own right while also offering pivoting and priority. Still incredibly threatening, but not quite S- anymore.

:sv/iron-boulder:
Iron-Boulder: A+ -> A-

Iron Boulder has experienced something of a fall from grace in the wake of Ting Lu's rise. No longer can it reliably Close Combat the most common Ground type, and the massive uptick in things like sand, Aegislash, and the newly dropped Rillaboom are very much not good for it.

:sv/iron-moth:
Iron-Moth: A+ -> A

As it was, it only hung on to A+ by the skin of its nonexistent teeth last slate, and that was before shifts. With the rise of Mega Aerodactyl, sand + the corresponding Tyranitar, and Garganacl being unbanned, it's still threatening, but the tier is much more prepared for it these days.

:sv/excadrill:
Excadrill: A -> A+
Offense is up, so sand is in. Not only that, but bulky sets offer its team a wealth of utility and role compression, especially valuable in the wake of Ting Lu going to check Gholdengos and Raging Bolts in the great tier above, and teams needing a new splashable ground replacement.

:sv/zeraora:
Zeraora: B+ -> B-

Zeraora has struggled for a while, but at least it could threaten the most common ground in the tier with Close Combat. Now? Not so much. It wants to run Grass Knot, but if it does, it becomes incapable of touching Excadrill. Run CC? Have fun doing anything to the ground type. It becomes even worse once you consider that sand is on the rise and Mega Aero is usually just much better as speed control. Knock is annoying, but we have other speed control Knock users that don't just eat it into at least one mon on their team.

:sv/garganacl:
Garganacl: NEW -> B+

Our newest unban has not been making that much of a splash so far. It faces competition from Mega Aerodactyl and Tyranitar as rock types, who both offer more to the team than Garganacl. However, it's still new, so we'll see how things develop as people continue to experiment with and develop it more.

:sv/iron-crown:
Iron-Crown: NEW -> A

A versatile steel type for sure, with a threatening, if matchup fishy, sweeping set, it's no surprise that Iron Crown is a very much viable Pokemon.

:sv/rillaboom:
Rillaboom: NEW -> A

After being absent from the tier since it got Grassy Surge last gen, Rillaboom finally returns and predictably makes a big splash. Knock Off, U-turn, priority in Grassy Glide, Grassy Terrain and a threatening breaker in the form of Choice Band, Rillaboom has cemented itself as a relevant threat in the short time it has been here already.

:sv/hawlucha:
Hawlucha: B- -> A-

Now that it finally has a terrain setter that synergises with it well outside of just setting terrain, and one that offers a wealth of boons to its teams making it less of a burden to build around, Hawlucha has taken off as a controversial threat in the metagame, being a large part of the reason for the uptick in Slowbro usage lately.

Voting slate can be found by clicking this link.

Want to know why a Pokemon shifted the way it did? Just ask here in the thread!

Note: R1C3M4N is still on VR Council, but took a break for this VR Slate due to them feeling not up-to-date with the metagame enough to vote.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Niadev said:
It's been a while, so we've gotten another VR slate out.

New:
:garganacl: Garganacl: NEW -> B+
:iron-crown: Iron-Crown: NEW -> A
:rillaboom: Rillaboom: NEW -> A
:araquanid: Araquanid: UR -> C
:goodra-hisui: Goodra-Hisui: UR -> B-
:quagsire: Quagsire: UR -> C+
:sableye-mega: Sableye-Mega: UR -> B-
:salamence: Salamence: UR -> C+
:glimmora: Glimmora: NEW -> C+

:aegislash: Aegislash: S- -> S
:aerodactyl-mega: Aerodactyl-Mega: A+ -> S-
:excadrill: Excadrill: A -> A+
:slowbro: Slowbro: A -> A+
:hippowdon: Hippowdon: A- -> A
:enamorus: Enamorus: B+ -> A-
:victini: Victini: B+ -> A-
:bisharp: Bisharp: B -> B+
:hydreigon: Hydreigon: B -> B+
:chansey: Chansey: B- -> B
:hawlucha: Hawlucha: B- -> A-
:pecharunt: Pecharunt: B- -> B+
:blacephalon: Blacephalon: C+ -> B
:mew: Mew: C+ -> B-
:swampert: Swampert: C+ -> B
:thundurus: Thundurus: C+ -> B

:venusaur-mega: Venusaur-Mega: S -> A+
:hydrapple: Hydrapple: S- -> A+
:iron-boulder: Iron-Boulder: A+ -> A-
:iron-moth: Iron-Moth: A+ -> A
:latias-mega: Latias-Mega: A -> A-
:ursaluna: Ursaluna: A -> A-
:amoonguss: Amoonguss: A- -> B
:buzzwole: Buzzwole: A- -> B+
:gardevoir-mega: Gardevoir-Mega: A- -> B+
:zeraora: Zeraora: B+ -> B-
:blissey: Blissey: B -> B-
:gastrodon: Gastrodon: B -> C+
:tangrowth: Tangrowth: B -> C+
:tapu-bulu: Tapu-Bulu: B -> C
:alakazam: Alakazam: B- -> C+
:archaludon: Archaludon: C+ -> UR
:azumarill: Azumarill: C+ -> C
:dhelmise: Dhelmise: C+ -> UR
:flygon: Flygon: C+ -> C
:heracross-mega: Heracross-Mega: C+ -> C
:ribombee: Ribombee: C+ -> C
:sinistcha: Sinistcha: C+ -> C
:iron-leaves: Iron-Leaves: C -> UR
:primarina: Primarina: C -> UR
:pelipper: Pelipper: NEW -> UR

:sv/aegislash: :sv/aerodactyl-mega:
Aegislash: S- -> S
Aerodactyl-Mega: A+ -> S-

It shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone who has been playing the meta for any amount of time that these two are deserving of their positions at the top of the VR. Aegislash is a versatile and threatening Pokemon with defensive presence, while Mega Aerodactyl is some of the best speed control in the tier while being threatening in its own right, while offering notable defensive utility in checking Mega Venusaur, Iron Moth.

:sv/venusaur-mega:
Venusaur-Mega: S -> A+

Mega Venusaur has experienced something of a fall off, albeit still one of the best Pokemon in the tier. Mega Aerodactyl not only checks it but offers tremendous competition for the mega slot, as it too fits on many of the same playstyles as Mega Venusaur.

:sv/hydrapple:
Hydrapple: S- -> A+

Offense is on the rise, and Hydrapple isn't as great into that as it is into fat. It also faces competition from new grass Rillaboom on BO, who is a capable breaker in its own right while also offering pivoting and priority. Still incredibly threatening, but not quite S- anymore.

:sv/iron-boulder:
Iron-Boulder: A+ -> A-

Iron Boulder has experienced something of a fall from grace in the wake of Ting Lu's rise. No longer can it reliably Close Combat the most common Ground type, and the massive uptick in things like sand, Aegislash, and the newly dropped Rillaboom are very much not good for it.

:sv/iron-moth:
Iron-Moth: A+ -> A

As it was, it only hung on to A+ by the skin of its nonexistent teeth last slate, and that was before shifts. With the rise of Mega Aerodactyl, sand + the corresponding Tyranitar, and Garganacl being unbanned, it's still threatening, but the tier is much more prepared for it these days.

:sv/excadrill:
Excadrill: A -> A+
Offense is up, so sand is in. Not only that, but bulky sets offer its team a wealth of utility and role compression, especially valuable in the wake of Ting Lu going to check Gholdengos and Raging Bolts in the great tier above, and teams needing a new splashable ground replacement.

:sv/zeraora:
Zeraora: B+ -> B-

Zeraora has struggled for a while, but at least it could threaten the most common ground in the tier with Close Combat. Now? Not so much. It wants to run Grass Knot, but if it does, it becomes incapable of touching Excadrill. Run CC? Have fun doing anything to the ground type. It becomes even worse once you consider that sand is on the rise and Mega Aero is usually just much better as speed control. Knock is annoying, but we have other speed control Knock users that don't just eat it into at least one mon on their team.

:sv/garganacl:
Garganacl: NEW -> B+

Our newest unban has not been making that much of a splash so far. It faces competition from Mega Aerodactyl and Tyranitar as rock types, who both offer more to the team than Garganacl. However, it's still new, so we'll see how things develop as people continue to experiment with and develop it more.

:sv/iron-crown:
Iron-Crown: NEW -> A

A versatile steel type for sure, with a threatening, if matchup fishy, sweeping set, it's no surprise that Iron Crown is a very much viable Pokemon.

:sv/rillaboom:
Rillaboom: NEW -> A

After being absent from the tier since it got Grassy Surge last gen, Rillaboom finally returns and predictably makes a big splash. Knock Off, U-turn, priority in Grassy Glide, Grassy Terrain and a threatening breaker in the form of Choice Band, Rillaboom has cemented itself as a relevant threat in the short time it has been here already.

:sv/hawlucha:
Hawlucha: B- -> A-

Now that it finally has a terrain setter that synergises with it well outside of just setting terrain, and one that offers a wealth of boons to its teams making it less of a burden to build around, Hawlucha has taken off as a controversial threat in the metagame, being a large part of the reason for the uptick in Slowbro usage lately.

Voting slate can be found by clicking this link.

Want to know why a Pokemon shifted the way it did? Just ask here!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse...
Is Sableye stall ok now?
 
Drag0n said:
Is Sableye stall ok now?
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Click to collapse...
Not a stall builder so take this with a grain of salt, but my understanding is that Garganacl has helped it a lot. Secondary status sponge + Salt Cure + wincon with IPress is nice to make progress more quickly and help vs opposing status. Since it's also a moth check, and one that isn't easily worn down by U-turn, stall can use something other than the Flygon it's been stuck with for however long it's been since someone figured out that Flygon stall was solid to answer pivot moth farming blobs for boosts (someone might have tried other stuff but it's generally accepted that set of six mons was the optimal stall comp before). The extra space means it can run other stuff than The Stall Six, and that other stuff includes MSab. MSab not having a Ting to get worn down to oblivion by Ruination, as well as the rise of Fini who just turned off status conditions, one of stall's main tools for progress, and could potentially stallbreak, also probably helps.

tl;dr Garganacl being unbanned and Ting+Fini rising means stall has enough breathing room for MSab+others again
 
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My VR for this season, I only will be explaining the differences my rankings have compared to the current VR

1753230002422.png

* I forgot Garganacl but it's A-/B+ I cba to explain, very borderline ranking.

------ S ------
NEW :Tyranitar-Mega: Sand went from great to literally more than half of the teams ever since this dropped. Knock Off with that raw power is an insane tool to force progression in ways that base Tyranitar could only accomplish with a Choice Band or surprise Z-Move set. Dragon Dance sets are also very strong but like its DD on a mon who main way of ending games is Stone Edge so idk about that just yet #consistency.

------ S- ------
Nothing feels cut above my A+ guys in terms of consistency and if they did they would be so cut above that they might as well be hard S

------ A+ ------
- :Aerodactyl-Mega: I downgraded because every time Mega Tyranitar is in the tier hazards get uber annoying to remove and sand on the forefront once more is very frustrating. A lot more Iron Moths are dropping Morning Sun to trade against Mega Aerodactyl with Discharge as well.

------ A ------
+ :Buzzwole: Mega Tyranitar and Sand being broken in addition to Bisharp centric HOs being popular makes this really valuable because it just refuses to die to any physical attack and unlike a lot of these fat physdef guys it hits REALLY hard and can tech a lot of offensive sets without a huge reduction to its bulk in regards to checking things like Excadrill and Mega Tyranitar.

+ :Latias-Mega: 3 attacks roost seems to have given this a bit more life. Thunder Wave variants are also not bad in a metagame where you might not have all the coverage you need and Thunder Wave makes those shit matchups less shit in the long run.

+ :Magnezone: Trapping is broken when the options for Steel-types are Scizor, Skarmory, or Celesteela, or Excadrill for the most part. "Oh but you can't even trap those Steel-types consistently, its not a consistent trapper" well read it and weep Zonephobes. A lot of mons benefit signifcantly from Zone just removing 75% of the steels such as Mega Latias, Excadrill, and Hydrapple.

+ :Skarmory: Ok so what if we just accepted that A) Spikes are broken and B) Defog Skarmory beats every hazard setter. Going Dual Body Press + Brave Bird also makes this a lot more favorable against a lot more matchups as well such as Mega Venusaur and Buzzwole.

- :Venusaur-Mega: This guy is super fraud, I almost never like using this because Sand and Mega Aerodactyl and Celesteela HO are just such insufferable matchups. Still a fat tank so like not terrible but like I don't get the need to rank this highly at all. Arguably a A-/B+ dropper.

+ :Victini: We don't have any real Z-Celebrate checks that sit on Victini outside of Mega Latias. Coincidentally Mega Latias is one of the few mons that doesn't hate switching into Pivot Victini. Everything else just prays it doesn't click the right coverage or utility move. Insanely strong progress forcer.

------ A- ------
+ :Amoonguss: Mega Venusaur is not great but I still need its typing and sleep is still kinda stupid so.

+ :Bisharp: sealoo and PRC opened my eyes on how deadly Z-Bisharp is when you put it on HO teams and they have been fairly strong sightings in this rendition of NDUU Open. Choice Band Bisharp is also really really nice when stuff like Slowbro and Aegislash are so strong right now.

+ :Gardevoir-Mega: I always consider this in the builder because no switchin to it on your team= Tapu Lele 2.0

+ :Hydreigon: Choice Sets feel really nice when Clefable and Ting-Lu aren't breathing down your neck constantly. Nasty Plot is also still fairly strong when balance and stall still get consistent matchups in this tier.

- :Iron Moth: I only feel threatened by this when it's on HO. That's only because of the fear that if I trade against Moth then I would just lose to something in the back like Galarian Moltres. Makes the interaction unfun to play. Iron Crown being banned should soothe that fear significantly however.

- :Mienshao: Never kills anything its supposed to because no team is weak enough to willingly trade vs a Mienshao. Usually a strong hard check to it on any given team.

+ :Pecharunt: Parting Shot sets are cracked, I have 1v1'd Mega Tyranitars with this fucker just has ungodly physical bulk.

- :Scizor: Scizor get a kill challenge? Scizor click anything but U-Turn challenge? Scizor do something challenge?????

------ B+ ------
+ :Blacephalon: Z sets dislike Mega Tyranitar existing again but nothing Mew Spikes don't solve. Obnoxious into everything else.

+ :Chansey: Chansey balance and stall is just way more consistent than Blissey. the superior bulk is way more valuable especially with Mega Tyanitar back in the metagame. Galarian Moltres and Z-Celebrate Victini and Latias being more obnoxious give me reason to run this on balance more too.

- :Iron Boulder: Phd in Fishing.

+ :Jirachi: This checks Mega Gardevoir so I think it is worth ranking in B+ on that alone. Z-Happy Hour is also the Albert Enstein of toxic matchup fishing.

+ :Lokix: Super linear in terms of why you want it on a team but it gets the job done in practice.

+ :Mew: Wisp Mew Lead HO is very busted. Also I think putting significantly more emphasis on using Will-o-Wisp gives Mew a real spot on Balance and Stall teams regardless of if its Defog or Spikes

+ :Okidogi: Infuriating to prep against without something like Non-Future Sight / Psychium Slowbro

+ :Swampert: Mega Aerodactyl + This saves Offense teams.

+ :Thundurus: Yet another frustrating sweeper that makes prepping for HO a chore. Nasty Plot + Thunder Wave is another new spin on Thundurus in which instead of banking on having the correct coverage you just cripple it permanantly for more consistent progress. Also a great cop out into opposing HO teams.

- :Ursaluna: Rarer than before because Buzzwole, Slowbro, Skarm usage is heightened.

------ B ------
+ :Sableye-Mega: You can actually make a lot more interesting stall teams than I thought with this doesn't just have to be Goodra-Hisui slop even with Iron Moth in the tier.

+ :Salamence: I have sucessfully confirmed that this fits on every playstyle in the tier and therefore give NatDex UU its latest potential man. Defensive sets are solid, Dragon Dance sets are solid. Just needs relevant support but the rewards are worth it (running away with the game after spamming boosted Outrages unopposed for example or soft checking a bunch of annoying grass and fighting types).

+ :Volcanion: Yet another Sealoo banger, Sub Leftovers Volcanion is really annoying to deal with while standard boots fit great on this tier since forcing out Mega Tyranitar in a metagame where switchins to Volcanion are not easy to come by is great at forcing momentum to your side.

------ B- ------
+ :Alakazam: It hits hard, you don't need to click Nasty Plot with this really just click buttons immediately nobody cares about thudding into Celesteela, Magnezone is calling for that mon's head anyways.

+ :Quagsire: Blocking Rotom-W on stall is a lot more impactful than it sounds.

+:Rotom-Heat: Very very big difference here vs Rotom-Wash is that it trades type neutralities and resists for the ability to check more common threats such as Celesteela and Aegislash far better than Washtom ever could. Things that would force it out either hate Wisp or its Electric Stab anyways.

+ :Tangrowth: Good on stall. I don't really care about it outside of that.

------ C+ ------
+ :Araquanid: Webs fishing is kinda broken and Araquanid makes Webs a lot more frustrating to tackle.

+ :Azumarill: Mega Venusaur not being all that = Belly Drum goes crazier than usual.

+ :Heracross-Mega: What if Buzzwole gave up on trying to defensively check things and instead just checked things via superior firepower?

- :Zeraora: Might as well be unviable outside of the very rare instance that it can safely get into Mega Aerodactyl and you didn't have a mon that defensively checked it to begin with.

- :Zoroark-Hisui: Woefully unesseary but still threatening. Very Gengar coded, but we also unranked Gengar at this point so...

------ C ------
+ :Archaludon: Mega Tyanitar check that doesn't fumble into Mega Tyranitar partners.

- :Glimmora: Lead Glimmora actually sucks I have had better results with SubToxic.

+ :Mandibuzz: I think I really like checking SD Aegislash easily to be honest. Good SD Rillaboom and Scizor matchup as well. Fares fine against Excadrill. Toxics other stuff like Buzzwole and Mega Latias. It's just decent.

+ :Quaquaval: Not a huge reason to run defensive sets just go all in on the HO fishing because what are the odds you load into Rillaboom?

- :Reuniclus: Not bad in theory but keeps flopping in practice.

+ :Sharpedo-Mega: Fantastic on Mew Spikes and Webs HO because its checks also are tasked with dealing with actually threatening shit so this just comes out of nowhere to clean up worn out teams.

+ :Shuckle: Just in case you disliked the Excadrill, Tyranitar, Aerodatyl matchups on webs.

------ Maybe Rank / C- ------
:Altaria-Mega: Will-o-Wisp is broken with this defensive profile

:Beedrill-Mega: Unironically I think just take a good month finding the optimal 6 with BeedrillZone and it becomes a legitimate mon. There are times where it's gotten close but no cigar.

:Cobalion: Mega Tyranitar exists

:Conkeldurr: Mega Tyranitar exists

:Dracozolt: Mega Tyranitar exists

:Froslass: Burns a lot more than Mew technically and spin blocks Excadrill, not conceptually bad.

:Mamoswine: It just hits hard okay???

:Nidoking: Usage isn't up there yet so in the mean time Nidoking has no real switch ins

:Rhyperior:So basically I want to use Mega Tyranitar but I don't want to run Sand for whatever reason.

------ UR ------
:Skeledirge: Zero results and at this point it lacks a niche in the tier. Has a defensive profile but then instantly flops because the stuff it wants to check has coverage or pivoting or just a way to punish it in general.

:Tapu Bulu: Might be OD but it's just gone from the usage stats ever since Rillaboom entered.

:Arctozolt: I see it only when Riceman loads it. Not a terrible mon but I think seeing it on that team only is kinda not enough to justify ranking it.

:Gastrodon: It sucessfully checks a whole one mon in this tier consistently.

:Krookodile: Had a chance but Pursuit is not this stupid to afford running an otherwise garbage mon, cannot even truly deal with Iron Moth or Mega Latias or any dark weak mon anyways.

:Ribombee: Worst webs user ever.
 
Niadev said:
:quaquaval: Quaquaval
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A lot needs to change about the VR, but I am going to harp on this guy. I think this should have been ranked 6 months ago. Really potent offensive threat that a lot of people underrate. With Mega Ttar in the tier, you're also an okay-ish offensive check on super offensive builds. Even with Mega Gallade in the tier, this thing was fine as a side-grade that snowballed if you played around it passively.

I also think Mega Beedrill has the best shot at being ranked right now given the metagame trends. Zone + Bee has always been experimented with but with the Rillaboom drop and the Maero downturn, I think this is prime time for someone to build the one team that shatters the glass ceiling so that we can enjoy Mega Beedrill's glorious 1000 Year Mandate. I won't be the one to rank it since my builds still don't appreciate exca sand but I will support anyone who makes a solid reasoning for it.

And with this, we arrive under unique circumstances. I can scarcely remember an era of NDUU without an obligatory D-ranked Pokemon. I'm sure the veterans and the historians could point to a few moment where there were no D rankers - in the SS NDUU Isle of Armor or Home DLC when NDUU was played by 6 people of which only Niadev persists and barely at that. I can ask Runo, Danbear and Iride to release every VR slate from when beta ended till now and there still would be D-ranked mons in almost every iteration. I very clearly remember Swellow being ranked UU after alpha ended, and ever since then at least 1 Pokemon has held the "honor". When Mega Beedrill is slotted in the C-rank, I would ask you, kind reader, to recognise the historic significance of this moment.
 
:xy/banette-mega: UR to C

In a tier lacking in normal types and fast darks, this mon becomes a very big problem if it got a dance, it's damage output is insane that sd aegi can't even dream of doing half of what this thing does, for the cost of aegi's defensive utility, you get a terrifying sweeper and stallbreaker on HO, the only things faster than mban that resist shadow sneak are drei and golt, and it threatens them back with skitter smack so they can't setup on it making them foder for mban's teammates, the other resists are more niche like horo, lokix, krook and pz, against slower targets, mban can actually outspeed and kill ttar with +2 skitter smack, it could also do a lot of damage to luna with +2 skitter smack and could even win the 1v1 against garg or chip it considerably, softening them all for its teammates or making them setup fodder, bisharp is the only mon in the tier that hard counters it without mban being able to punish it like the aforementioned others, everything else succumbs to it as shown in the calcs below.

in conclusion, this mon being very good into defense and a pinch less good into offense, plus its flexibility ingame as it can act as a late-game cleaner after its teammates punch holes (sometimes without needing setup) or punch holes itslef so its teammates could clean makes it a great competitor for the mega slot on HO, other options like dbond, traliblaze, wisp, or using it outside of HO are possible, but i didn't explore with them and i think everybody can see why those won't work, now into the calcs and replays:

+2 252+ Atk Banette-Mega Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 259-306 (71.7 - 84.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252+ Atk Banette-Mega Skitter Smack vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 370-436 (91.5 - 107.9%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Banette-Mega Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Moth: 259-306 (86 - 101.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Banette-Mega: 162-192 (60.2 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252+ Atk Banette-Mega Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Aerodactyl-Mega: 196-232 (65.1 - 77%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252+ Atk Banette-Mega Poltergeist vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 268-316 (80.4 - 94.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252+ Atk Banette-Mega Poltergeist vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Hippowdon: 409-483 (97.6 - 115.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252+ Atk Banette-Mega Poltergeist vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 303-357 (72.3 - 85.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ Atk Banette-Mega Poltergeist vs. 68 HP / 0 Def Buzzwole: 355-418 (95.4 - 112.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252+ Atk Banette-Mega Poltergeist vs. 244 HP / 224+ Def Buzzwole: 273-322 (65.6 - 77.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Buzzwole Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Banette-Mega: 159-188 (59.1 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Banette-Mega Poltergeist vs. 248 HP / 204+ Def Rotom-Wash: 169-199 (55.7 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Banette-Mega Poltergeist vs. 252 HP / 152+ Def Venusaur-Mega: 159-187 (43.6 - 51.3%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

152+ SpA Venusaur-Mega Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Banette-Mega: 139-165 (51.6 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

112+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Banette-Mega: 124-147 (37.3 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

0 Atk Tangrowth Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Banette-Mega: 120-142 (36.1 - 42.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Also you could go the chineese route and make it barely creep mvenu and washtom and put the rest in bulk, it can give you some nice clutches With those 100 evs in hp, altho you miss out on jolly ttar, zone and pecha
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexuu-2429969370?p2

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexuu-2429950147?p2

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexuu-2429941698-n7lv2aemxpyb92ehhy0a6pyfvxy5t0rpw?p2

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexuu-2427898636?p2
 
Velcroc said:
I also think Mega Beedrill has the best shot at being ranked right now given the metagame trends.
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This is a few months late, but I respectfully disagree. Bee usually feels like a Lokix that needs better hazard control and trades priority for speed, all at the cost of taking your mega slot. Both end up having to be u-turn bots for a large chunk of every match. It still could be a sidegrade to it, of course, but I don't think I would pick it over Lokix if I was trying to build a serious team, if only because of the opportunity cost of not being able to run another mega. Let me propose, instead, an alternate mon that I think deserves more to rise in the VR to the ever-prestigious C-rank:


sharpedo-mega.gif


Mega Sharpedo.

I don't have good replays, but this thing actually does pull its weight, and does something unique in the process. I'm not the first to point out it is a legit good cleaner for Mew Spikes HO: if you can get rocks and a layer of spikes to stay up, the number of offensive mons it straight ohkoes is nothing to sneeze at. Speed Boost is an amazing ability, and you often can maneuver your way into getting multiple boosts by saving its entry to be against something it can ko without mega evolving. Strong Jaw and Dark/Fighting/Psychic coverage makes it able to threaten most mons in the tier if they've been chipped a bit - the only mon that comes to mind which doesn't take 50% from any of its moves is physdef Hippowdon. It also is surprisingly sturdy against priority, with Rilla Grassy Glide being the only one that actually threatens you - unless people are actually running vacuum wave Keldeo, I guess. Thus, it's not hard to find a late-game entry-point that then lets you set up and threaten the entire opposing team.

Whilst I did say I don't have good replays, I did not mean I have no replays. Here's a couple of roomtour finals, whatever that's worth:

https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/battle-gen9nationaldexuu-2483795422 MSharpedo didn't do that much here, this was more an example of Iron Moth being a certified problem, but it still shows how the shark can often rack up several speed boosts and become only revenge-killable by priority.

https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/battle-gen9nationaldexuu-2484322018 MSharpedo completely takes over the game after my opponent makes the mistake of trying to set up autosteela. This shows how it is a menace vs offense mons, especially if the rocks+spikes from Mew sticks around: Serperior is quite bulky for an offensive mon, and Sharpedo doesn't carry coverage for it (I don't think it can afford Ice Fang). Yet, even the subglare set, which has bulk investment, falls to this calc:
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo-Mega Crunch vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 237-280 (77.7 - 91.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes

Because of its very unique traits (notably being the only speed boost user that merits any consideration, even if it does lose the ability once it mega evolves) and its ability to turn them into clean-ups in HO, I think it very well deserves a C rank.

EDIT: I do realize the irony of saying MSharp is a good cleaner and then sharing two replays in which it's the first mon I send in after the lead, but in my defense, roomtours tend to be wack, and hey, it worked!
 
Last edited:
New VR slate for all of the players joining NDUU for NDCL! Good luck to all, and we hope everyone appreciates the updated resources. As always, feel free to ping us on Discord or ask questions here about any notable tier changes!

Rises:
:sv/aerodactyl-mega:
:Aerodactyl-Mega: Aerodactyl-Mega: S- -> S

Following its rise to S- last VR update, Mega Aerodactyl has cemented itself as the premier speed control and offensive threat in the metagame. The fact that it outspeeds the entire unboosted metagame and is only handled by a few defensive pieces often allows it to very effectively force progress, especially alongside reliable recovery in Roost to offset entry hazard damage and niche options like Pursuit and Dragon Dance on certain teams.

:sv/Bisharp: :sv/Buzzwole:
:bisharp: Bisharp: B+ -> A-
:buzzwole: Buzzwole: B+ -> A

Paired together because they are somewhat related, both Bisharp and Buzzwole are joining the A ranks as powerful physical attacking threats. Jolly Bisharp specifically has been something of a controversial Pokemon, but a fantastic aid for offensive teams to beat all forms of Aegislash, with Buzzwole also rising to handle Swords Dance Aegislash as well as Bisharp itself, though Buzzwole is primarily seen as an offensive threat capable of checking these two while also exerting significant pressure.

:sv/Gardevoir-Mega:
:gardevoir-mega: Gardevoir-Mega: B+ -> A-

With HO on the decline with the ban of Iron Moth, Mega Gardevoir has emerged as essentially a special attacking counterpart to Bisharp and Buzzwole. Its ability to break essentially any defensive core is unrivaled, though its lackluster bulk/longevity means that it requires quite a bit of support to help it function, though it is quite capable of leaving dents with just a little bit of that support.

:sv/Pecharunt:
:pecharunt: Pecharunt: B+ -> A+

Maybe the second most notable rise, Pecharunt has shot up in viability, specifically to check the first most notable rise in Okidogi. Its impressive bulk and defensive profile are bolstered by its deceivingly powerful offensive capabilities, using its typing and often Ghostium-Z to break past typically solid special walls. It has become the best tool in the tier to handle almost all physical attackers.

:sv/Blacephalon:
:blacephalon: Blacephalon: B -> B+

Blacephalon has been finding quite a bit of use on teams with Knock Off, Will-O-Wisp, and Heavy Duty Boots to break down defensive teams reliant on non-Tyranitar answers for Blacephalon, which there are shockingly few of. It has shaken off its identity as a matchup fish and now helps support teammates that appreciate Blacephalon wearing down or crippling Tyranitar, Garganacl, and Blissey.

:sv/Okidogi:
:okidogi: Okidogi: B -> A+

THE MOST meteoric rise and the most notable rise in this VR, Okidogi shoots to the top of the VR since being "discovered" in early NDPL. It has since become an incredibly controversial threat, being able to mix and match its fantastic coverage alongside Z-Crystals to crush would-be counters like Slowbro and Pecharunt, leaving only revenge killers as a viable strategy to handle Okidogi.

:sv/Swampert:
:swampert: Swampert: B -> A-
With not many viable Grounds remaining, its no wonder that Swampert has risen to fill that hole in the metagame. Essentially compressing Slowbro and Excadrill into one team slot by providing hazards and pivotting, Swampert is an excellent temporary check to threats like Zeraora and Mega-Aerodactyl to allow its offensive team to generate enough momentum to end the game.

:sv/Goodra-Hisui:
:goodra-hisui: Goodra-Hisui: B- -> A

The last notable rise, Goodra Hisui has (finally) gotten the respect it deserves. In my opinion it is pretty much impossible to wall long-term given the offensive nature of the metagame and the lack of special walls that are able to stomach Knock Off, but its mostly appreciated thanks to its specific ability to destroy one of the premier defensive pieces in the tier, Celesteela, with Sap Sipper to block Leech Seed. With this, it is able to support all manner of special threats while not being as defensively inept as something such as Magnezone.

Drops:
:sv/Aegislash:
:aegislash: Aegislash: S -> S-
Aegislash suffers significantly from the rise in Okidogi, Buzzwole, and Bisharp as offensive options that are able to check its devastating Swords Dance set, with Okidogi and Bisharp also being able to check its special attacking sets.

:excadrill: Excadrill: A+ -> A
:hydrapple: Hydrapple: A+ -> A
:rotom-wash: Rotom-Wash: A+ -> A
:venusaur-mega: Venusaur-Mega: A+ -> A-
:clefable: Clefable: A -> B+
:mienshao: Mienshao: A -> A-
:rillaboom: Rillaboom: A -> A-
:iron-boulder: Iron-Boulder: A- -> B
:skarmory: Skarmory: B+ -> B

There are a LOT of shifts here, but essentially all of these can be explained by the rise of three mons: Mega-Aerodactyl, Pecharunt, or Okidogi. Mega Aero forces pieces like Swampert or Slowbro on teams which displaces quite a few of these other defensive options, while also checking quite a bit defensively thanks to its typing, like Mega Venusaur. Pecharunt similarly displaces many defensive options by just being better, but notable uses mons like Mienshao, Skarmory, and Clefable as opportunities to set up a Nasty Plot. And Okidogi shreds pretty much all of these options both defensively and offensively, which makes it harder to justify them on teams.

The full visual shifts are found below!

New:

:Altaria-Mega:Altaria-Mega: UR -> C+
:Mamoswine:Mamoswine: UR -> C
:Tapu Fini:Tapu Fini: NEW -> B

Rises:
:aerodactyl-mega: Aerodactyl-Mega: S- -> S
:keldeo: Keldeo: A- -> A
:bisharp: Bisharp: B+ -> A-
:buzzwole: Buzzwole: B+ -> A
:gardevoir-mega: Gardevoir-Mega: B+ -> A-
:pecharunt: Pecharunt: B+ -> A+
:blacephalon: Blacephalon: B -> B+
:okidogi: Okidogi: B -> A+
:swampert: Swampert: B -> A-
:thundurus: Thundurus: B -> B+
:blissey: Blissey: B- -> B
:goodra-hisui: Goodra-Hisui: B- -> A
:zeraora: Zeraora: B- -> B+
:salamence: Salamence: C+ -> B-
:azumarill: Azumarill: C -> C+
:quaquaval: Quaquaval: D -> C

Drops:
:aegislash: Aegislash: S -> S-
:excadrill: Excadrill: A+ -> A
:hydrapple: Hydrapple: A+ -> A
:rotom-wash: Rotom-Wash: A+ -> A
:scizor: Scizor: A+ -> A
:venusaur-mega: Venusaur-Mega: A+ -> A-
:clefable: Clefable: A -> B+
:hippowdon: Hippowdon: A -> A-
:iron-moth: Iron-Moth: A -> Banned
:mienshao: Mienshao: A -> A-
:rillaboom: Rillaboom: A -> A-
:enamorus: Enamorus: A- -> B+
:iron-boulder: Iron-Boulder: A- -> B
:skarmory: Skarmory: B+ -> B
:chansey: Chansey: B -> B-
:jirachi: Jirachi: B -> B-
:zoroark-hisui: Zoroark-Hisui: B- -> UR
:gastrodon: Gastrodon: C+ -> C
:quagsire: Quagsire: C+ -> C
:reuniclus: Reuniclus: C+ -> UR
:tangrowth: Tangrowth: C+ -> UR
:arctozolt: Arctozolt: C -> UR
:flygon: Flygon: C -> UR
:heracross-mega: Heracross-Mega: C -> UR
:krookodile: Krookodile: C -> UR
:ribombee: Ribombee: C -> UR
:skeledirge: Skeledirge: C -> UR
:slowbro-mega: Slowbro-Mega: C -> UR
:tapu-bulu: Tapu-Bulu: C -> UR
:zygarde-10: Zygarde-10: C -> UR

Voting slate can be found by clicking this link.

Want to know why a Pokemon shifted the way it did? Just ask here in the thread!
 
Danbear02 said:
New VR slate for all of the players joining NDUU for NDCL! Good luck to all, and we hope everyone appreciates the updated resources. As always, feel free to ping us on Discord or ask questions here about any notable tier changes!

Rises:
:sv/aerodactyl-mega:
:Aerodactyl-Mega: Aerodactyl-Mega: S- -> S

Following its rise to S- last VR update, Mega Aerodactyl has cemented itself as the premier speed control and offensive threat in the metagame. The fact that it outspeeds the entire unboosted metagame and is only handled by a few defensive pieces often allows it to very effectively force progress, especially alongside reliable recovery in Roost to offset entry hazard damage and niche options like Pursuit and Dragon Dance on certain teams.

:sv/Bisharp: :sv/Buzzwole:
:bisharp: Bisharp: B+ -> A-
:buzzwole: Buzzwole: B+ -> A

Paired together because they are somewhat related, both Bisharp and Buzzwole are joining the A ranks as powerful physical attacking threats. Jolly Bisharp specifically has been something of a controversial Pokemon, but a fantastic aid for offensive teams to beat all forms of Aegislash, with Buzzwole also rising to handle Swords Dance Aegislash as well as Bisharp itself, though Buzzwole is primarily seen as an offensive threat capable of checking these two while also exerting significant pressure.

:sv/Gardevoir-Mega:
:gardevoir-mega: Gardevoir-Mega: B+ -> A-

With HO on the decline with the ban of Iron Moth, Mega Gardevoir has emerged as essentially a special attacking counterpart to Bisharp and Buzzwole. Its ability to break essentially any defensive core is unrivaled, though its lackluster bulk/longevity means that it requires quite a bit of support to help it function, though it is quite capable of leaving dents with just a little bit of that support.

:sv/Pecharunt:
:pecharunt: Pecharunt: B+ -> A+

Maybe the second most notable rise, Pecharunt has shot up in viability, specifically to check the first most notable rise in Okidogi. Its impressive bulk and defensive profile are bolstered by its deceivingly powerful offensive capabilities, using its typing and often Ghostium-Z to break past typically solid special walls. It has become the best tool in the tier to handle almost all physical attackers.

:sv/Blacephalon:
:blacephalon: Blacephalon: B -> B+

Blacephalon has been finding quite a bit of use on teams with Knock Off, Will-O-Wisp, and Heavy Duty Boots to break down defensive teams reliant on non-Tyranitar answers for Blacephalon, which there are shockingly few of. It has shaken off its identity as a matchup fish and now helps support teammates that appreciate Blacephalon wearing down or crippling Tyranitar, Garganacl, and Blissey.

:sv/Okidogi:
:okidogi: Okidogi: B -> A+

THE MOST meteoric rise and the most notable rise in this VR, Okidogi shoots to the top of the VR since being "discovered" in early NDPL. It has since become an incredibly controversial threat, being able to mix and match its fantastic coverage alongside Z-Crystals to crush would-be counters like Slowbro and Pecharunt, leaving only revenge killers as a viable strategy to handle Okidogi.

:sv/Swampert:
:swampert: Swampert: B -> A-
With not many viable Grounds remaining, its no wonder that Swampert has risen to fill that hole in the metagame. Essentially compressing Slowbro and Excadrill into one team slot by providing hazards and pivotting, Swampert is an excellent temporary check to threats like Zeraora and Mega-Aerodactyl to allow its offensive team to generate enough momentum to end the game.

:sv/Goodra-Hisui:
:goodra-hisui: Goodra-Hisui: B- -> A

The last notable rise, Goodra Hisui has (finally) gotten the respect it deserves. In my opinion it is pretty much impossible to wall long-term given the offensive nature of the metagame and the lack of special walls that are able to stomach Knock Off, but its mostly appreciated thanks to its specific ability to destroy one of the premier defensive pieces in the tier, Celesteela, with Sap Sipper to block Leech Seed. With this, it is able to support all manner of special threats while not being as defensively inept as something such as Magnezone.

Drops:
:sv/Aegislash:
:aegislash: Aegislash: S -> S-
Aegislash suffers significantly from the rise in Okidogi, Buzzwole, and Bisharp as offensive options that are able to check its devastating Swords Dance set, with Okidogi and Bisharp also being able to check its special attacking sets.

:excadrill: Excadrill: A+ -> A
:hydrapple: Hydrapple: A+ -> A
:rotom-wash: Rotom-Wash: A+ -> A
:venusaur-mega: Venusaur-Mega: A+ -> A-
:clefable: Clefable: A -> B+
:mienshao: Mienshao: A -> A-
:rillaboom: Rillaboom: A -> A-
:iron-boulder: Iron-Boulder: A- -> B
:skarmory: Skarmory: B+ -> B

There are a LOT of shifts here, but essentially all of these can be explained by the rise of three mons: Mega-Aerodactyl, Pecharunt, or Okidogi. Mega Aero forces pieces like Swampert or Slowbro on teams which displaces quite a few of these other defensive options, while also checking quite a bit defensively thanks to its typing, like Mega Venusaur. Pecharunt similarly displaces many defensive options by just being better, but notable uses mons like Mienshao, Skarmory, and Clefable as opportunities to set up a Nasty Plot. And Okidogi shreds pretty much all of these options both defensively and offensively, which makes it harder to justify them on teams.

The full visual shifts are found below!

New:

:Altaria-Mega:Altaria-Mega: UR -> C+
:Mamoswine:Mamoswine: UR -> C
:Tapu Fini:Tapu Fini: NEW -> B

Rises:
:aerodactyl-mega: Aerodactyl-Mega: S- -> S
:keldeo: Keldeo: A- -> A
:bisharp: Bisharp: B+ -> A-
:buzzwole: Buzzwole: B+ -> A
:gardevoir-mega: Gardevoir-Mega: B+ -> A-
:pecharunt: Pecharunt: B+ -> A+
:blacephalon: Blacephalon: B -> B+
:okidogi: Okidogi: B -> A+
:swampert: Swampert: B -> A-
:thundurus: Thundurus: B -> B+
:blissey: Blissey: B- -> B
:goodra-hisui: Goodra-Hisui: B- -> A
:zeraora: Zeraora: B- -> B+
:salamence: Salamence: C+ -> B-
:azumarill: Azumarill: C -> C+
:quaquaval: Quaquaval: D -> C

Drops:
:aegislash: Aegislash: S -> S-
:excadrill: Excadrill: A+ -> A
:hydrapple: Hydrapple: A+ -> A
:rotom-wash: Rotom-Wash: A+ -> A
:scizor: Scizor: A+ -> A
:venusaur-mega: Venusaur-Mega: A+ -> A-
:clefable: Clefable: A -> B+
:hippowdon: Hippowdon: A -> A-
:iron-moth: Iron-Moth: A -> Banned
:mienshao: Mienshao: A -> A-
:rillaboom: Rillaboom: A -> A-
:enamorus: Enamorus: A- -> B+
:iron-boulder: Iron-Boulder: A- -> B
:skarmory: Skarmory: B+ -> B
:chansey: Chansey: B -> B-
:jirachi: Jirachi: B -> B-
:zoroark-hisui: Zoroark-Hisui: B- -> UR
:gastrodon: Gastrodon: C+ -> C
:quagsire: Quagsire: C+ -> C
:reuniclus: Reuniclus: C+ -> UR
:tangrowth: Tangrowth: C+ -> UR
:arctozolt: Arctozolt: C -> UR
:flygon: Flygon: C -> UR
:heracross-mega: Heracross-Mega: C -> UR
:krookodile: Krookodile: C -> UR
:ribombee: Ribombee: C -> UR
:skeledirge: Skeledirge: C -> UR
:slowbro-mega: Slowbro-Mega: C -> UR
:tapu-bulu: Tapu-Bulu: C -> UR
:zygarde-10: Zygarde-10: C -> UR

Voting slate can be found by clicking this link.

Want to know why a Pokemon shifted the way it did? Just ask here in the thread!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse...
My goat Zydog unranked
:psycry:
 
Danbear02 said:
New VR slate for all of the players joining NDUU for NDCL! Good luck to all, and we hope everyone appreciates the updated resources. As always, feel free to ping us on Discord or ask questions here about any notable tier changes!

Rises:
:sv/aerodactyl-mega:
:Aerodactyl-Mega: Aerodactyl-Mega: S- -> S

Following its rise to S- last VR update, Mega Aerodactyl has cemented itself as the premier speed control and offensive threat in the metagame. The fact that it outspeeds the entire unboosted metagame and is only handled by a few defensive pieces often allows it to very effectively force progress, especially alongside reliable recovery in Roost to offset entry hazard damage and niche options like Pursuit and Dragon Dance on certain teams.

:sv/Bisharp: :sv/Buzzwole:
:bisharp: Bisharp: B+ -> A-
:buzzwole: Buzzwole: B+ -> A

Paired together because they are somewhat related, both Bisharp and Buzzwole are joining the A ranks as powerful physical attacking threats. Jolly Bisharp specifically has been something of a controversial Pokemon, but a fantastic aid for offensive teams to beat all forms of Aegislash, with Buzzwole also rising to handle Swords Dance Aegislash as well as Bisharp itself, though Buzzwole is primarily seen as an offensive threat capable of checking these two while also exerting significant pressure.

:sv/Gardevoir-Mega:
:gardevoir-mega: Gardevoir-Mega: B+ -> A-

With HO on the decline with the ban of Iron Moth, Mega Gardevoir has emerged as essentially a special attacking counterpart to Bisharp and Buzzwole. Its ability to break essentially any defensive core is unrivaled, though its lackluster bulk/longevity means that it requires quite a bit of support to help it function, though it is quite capable of leaving dents with just a little bit of that support.

:sv/Pecharunt:
:pecharunt: Pecharunt: B+ -> A+

Maybe the second most notable rise, Pecharunt has shot up in viability, specifically to check the first most notable rise in Okidogi. Its impressive bulk and defensive profile are bolstered by its deceivingly powerful offensive capabilities, using its typing and often Ghostium-Z to break past typically solid special walls. It has become the best tool in the tier to handle almost all physical attackers.

:sv/Blacephalon:
:blacephalon: Blacephalon: B -> B+

Blacephalon has been finding quite a bit of use on teams with Knock Off, Will-O-Wisp, and Heavy Duty Boots to break down defensive teams reliant on non-Tyranitar answers for Blacephalon, which there are shockingly few of. It has shaken off its identity as a matchup fish and now helps support teammates that appreciate Blacephalon wearing down or crippling Tyranitar, Garganacl, and Blissey.

:sv/Okidogi:
:okidogi: Okidogi: B -> A+

THE MOST meteoric rise and the most notable rise in this VR, Okidogi shoots to the top of the VR since being "discovered" in early NDPL. It has since become an incredibly controversial threat, being able to mix and match its fantastic coverage alongside Z-Crystals to crush would-be counters like Slowbro and Pecharunt, leaving only revenge killers as a viable strategy to handle Okidogi.

:sv/Swampert:
:swampert: Swampert: B -> A-
With not many viable Grounds remaining, its no wonder that Swampert has risen to fill that hole in the metagame. Essentially compressing Slowbro and Excadrill into one team slot by providing hazards and pivotting, Swampert is an excellent temporary check to threats like Zeraora and Mega-Aerodactyl to allow its offensive team to generate enough momentum to end the game.

:sv/Goodra-Hisui:
:goodra-hisui: Goodra-Hisui: B- -> A

The last notable rise, Goodra Hisui has (finally) gotten the respect it deserves. In my opinion it is pretty much impossible to wall long-term given the offensive nature of the metagame and the lack of special walls that are able to stomach Knock Off, but its mostly appreciated thanks to its specific ability to destroy one of the premier defensive pieces in the tier, Celesteela, with Sap Sipper to block Leech Seed. With this, it is able to support all manner of special threats while not being as defensively inept as something such as Magnezone.

Drops:
:sv/Aegislash:
:aegislash: Aegislash: S -> S-
Aegislash suffers significantly from the rise in Okidogi, Buzzwole, and Bisharp as offensive options that are able to check its devastating Swords Dance set, with Okidogi and Bisharp also being able to check its special attacking sets.

:excadrill: Excadrill: A+ -> A
:hydrapple: Hydrapple: A+ -> A
:rotom-wash: Rotom-Wash: A+ -> A
:venusaur-mega: Venusaur-Mega: A+ -> A-
:clefable: Clefable: A -> B+
:mienshao: Mienshao: A -> A-
:rillaboom: Rillaboom: A -> A-
:iron-boulder: Iron-Boulder: A- -> B
:skarmory: Skarmory: B+ -> B

There are a LOT of shifts here, but essentially all of these can be explained by the rise of three mons: Mega-Aerodactyl, Pecharunt, or Okidogi. Mega Aero forces pieces like Swampert or Slowbro on teams which displaces quite a few of these other defensive options, while also checking quite a bit defensively thanks to its typing, like Mega Venusaur. Pecharunt similarly displaces many defensive options by just being better, but notable uses mons like Mienshao, Skarmory, and Clefable as opportunities to set up a Nasty Plot. And Okidogi shreds pretty much all of these options both defensively and offensively, which makes it harder to justify them on teams.

The full visual shifts are found below!

New:

:Altaria-Mega:Altaria-Mega: UR -> C+
:Mamoswine:Mamoswine: UR -> C
:Tapu Fini:Tapu Fini: NEW -> B

Rises:
:aerodactyl-mega: Aerodactyl-Mega: S- -> S
:keldeo: Keldeo: A- -> A
:bisharp: Bisharp: B+ -> A-
:buzzwole: Buzzwole: B+ -> A
:gardevoir-mega: Gardevoir-Mega: B+ -> A-
:pecharunt: Pecharunt: B+ -> A+
:blacephalon: Blacephalon: B -> B+
:okidogi: Okidogi: B -> A+
:swampert: Swampert: B -> A-
:thundurus: Thundurus: B -> B+
:blissey: Blissey: B- -> B
:goodra-hisui: Goodra-Hisui: B- -> A
:zeraora: Zeraora: B- -> B+
:salamence: Salamence: C+ -> B-
:azumarill: Azumarill: C -> C+
:quaquaval: Quaquaval: D -> C

Drops:
:aegislash: Aegislash: S -> S-
:excadrill: Excadrill: A+ -> A
:hydrapple: Hydrapple: A+ -> A
:rotom-wash: Rotom-Wash: A+ -> A
:scizor: Scizor: A+ -> A
:venusaur-mega: Venusaur-Mega: A+ -> A-
:clefable: Clefable: A -> B+
:hippowdon: Hippowdon: A -> A-
:iron-moth: Iron-Moth: A -> Banned
:mienshao: Mienshao: A -> A-
:rillaboom: Rillaboom: A -> A-
:enamorus: Enamorus: A- -> B+
:iron-boulder: Iron-Boulder: A- -> B
:skarmory: Skarmory: B+ -> B
:chansey: Chansey: B -> B-
:jirachi: Jirachi: B -> B-
:zoroark-hisui: Zoroark-Hisui: B- -> UR
:gastrodon: Gastrodon: C+ -> C
:quagsire: Quagsire: C+ -> C
:reuniclus: Reuniclus: C+ -> UR
:tangrowth: Tangrowth: C+ -> UR
:arctozolt: Arctozolt: C -> UR
:flygon: Flygon: C -> UR
:heracross-mega: Heracross-Mega: C -> UR
:krookodile: Krookodile: C -> UR
:ribombee: Ribombee: C -> UR
:skeledirge: Skeledirge: C -> UR
:slowbro-mega: Slowbro-Mega: C -> UR
:tapu-bulu: Tapu-Bulu: C -> UR
:zygarde-10: Zygarde-10: C -> UR

Voting slate can be found by clicking this link.

Want to know why a Pokemon shifted the way it did? Just ask here in the thread!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse...
Anyways what would the UR water types be tiered after some time in u thought
 
:slowking:: B -> B+

With Slowbro stolen, this is obligated to fill its shoes, it's still quite worse at that as the stat spread leans for a special wall when it'd prefer being a physical one, but in a nutshell it has less competition for a fat Water-type Regen pivot.

:gardevoir-mega:: A- -> S

Pecharunt, Okidogi and Iron Moth are gone, add to that the capability to punish the few checks it has left like Bisharp, Aegislash, and Celesteela with an evil Will-O-Wisp on the switch and you end up with a meta defining threat with no hard answers that will always leave a mark in a match.
 
Some VR shifts I think could happen with Slowbro and Rillaboom gone (mainly Slowbro)

:Victini: A- -> A

With Slowbro being gone CB sets and physical sets in general become a lot more powerful and will probably become the norm. Very few mons in the tier can comfortably take a CB V-create.

:Iron Boulder: B -> B+

While still a very mid mon, it no longer has to deal with Slowbro as a wall or Rilla revenge killing it. SD Z sets can punch holes through teams with rockium for Celesteela and Scizor and psychium for grounds.

:Tapu-Bulu: UR -> C or B-

With Rilla no longer completely outclassing it Tapu Bulu can have it's niche spot in the meta back as a grass type breaker and grassy terrain setter.

:Mamoswine: C -> C+ or B-

Mamoswine is a cool mon with a lot of potential and Slowbro being gone opens up its CB and Icium Z sets to be very powerful.

:Aerodactyl-Mega: S -> Potential Broken

The rich get richer with Aero not having to worry about a bulky water in Slowbro and a strong priority user that could revenge kill it in Rillaboom.

:Quaquaval::Azumarill::Volcanion:

I could see multiple of these lower ranked waters being more viable with both Slowbro and Rilla gone, although they will still have a problem with Slowking, other bulky waters and grasses holding them back.

:Zygarde-10%:

Lastly some Zygarde cope give my boy C- at least
:psycry:
 
Last edited:
I promised Niadev months ago that I would make a VR post, and although I've waited until playing another half a tour before actually starting it I'm keeping my word. The bans + rises have made a huge difference in this tier. I'm not all that familiar with the current VR so I just made my own tier list before looking, and now I'll go over the differences between them that I care about. I've got a lot of rises because the current VR has 1 mon in A+ and I think that's stupid (I know it's partially because of recent bans).

:SV/Aegislash: S- -> A+
I think it's very wrong to put Aegislash over the rest of the top threats in the tier right now. It's still very much impossible to deal with reliably in the builder, but it hasn't been dominating any of the recent tournaments and it's somewhat hard to fit things that aren't the mixed bulky KS + Shadow Sneak/Toxic set. SD Z is the set that is pretty broken on paper, but it's actually Air Balloon that is far more common on HO, which is needed to improve the Excadrill matchup and allow it setup opportunities. Still a pain to deal with but it's really not deserving of being a step above the rest of the elite.

:SV/Swampert: A- -> A+
In NDCL we sort of realized that Swampert is the most effective option for a Ground-type on most offensive teams. Excadrill used to be king but its relative frailty and tendency to sap momentum makes it a tough sell on some structures. Slowbro rising also makes Swampert the tier's best PhysDef Water-type. I imagine the decision for this mon's placement is between A and A+ right now, but I think it would be quite silly to put it any lower than A+.

:SV/Latias-Mega::SV/Gardevoir-Mega: A- -> A+
I'm grouping these together purely because they are both Psychic-type megas that were in the same rank. They're both really nice special breakers right now, pairing well with stuff like Goodra-Hisui to wear down Celesteela. Latias offers some nice defensive utility, and I find is more likely to go nuclear and win a game on its own, while Gardevoir's speed tier/lack of bulk limits it to being a (nearly unstoppable) early game breaker. Both are key threats right now and should unquestionably rise, with the only question being how far.

:SV/Blacephalon: B+ -> A
Honestly, this mon was probably just underexplored as of late. The only ways to switch into its STABs are Tyranitar, Hydreigon, and Garganacl. Garg is mid af, but the other 2 are quite good. Tyranitar is the mon that stops it from being super broken, but it drops to +1 Grassium Z and can even die to Specs Overheat/Fire Blast after a couple doubles with hazards up. Hydreigon works great but has to run recovery to work more than once, and can be straight up 2HKO'd by specs. Speed boosting CM 6-0s a lot of teams on the spot once it gets in, since it's faster than all non Sand Rush Excadrill revenge killers. Definitely my least favourite mon to deal with these days.

:SV/Hydreigon: B+ -> A-
This mon exploded in popularity in Last Chance + Circuit + NDCL. It was partially because it was needed to revenge kill Pecharunt, but now that Blacephalon has risen Hydreigon is needed in a similar way. In my books Hydreigon was clearly an A tier pokemon a couple months ago, but Fairies like the next 2 noms have become much more prominent as of late so I've shifted it down to A- for now. It could very convincingly be argued to still be A, but it's not as easy to make progress with anymore.

:SV/Clefable: B+ -> A
I've been excited since before the Okidogi ban to use Clefable, and Pecharunt ban was the removal of the other biggest threat to it. Slowbro gone means we have more of a need for Fighting resists. Knock Off ruins all 3 of the Steels I have in A+, making it extremely awkward to switch into Moonblast safely. Here's one of my replays where Clefable's weirdly positive matchup into Celesteela comes into play. Similar to Hydreigon, this nom is late enough that the meta has had time to shift to account for the change already, which has come in the form of Buzzwole running Poison Jab a ton more than it used to.

:SV/Tapu-Fini: NEW -> A
Maybe this is ambitious? but Tapu Fini has been a great addition to the tier. Taunt + Nature's Madness is super free progress as always, and you can fit some nice utility like Defog and Choice Scarf on the mon. It's useful for a lot of the same reasons as Clefable, but adds a cheeky Water typing and some very effective move options. I'm still looking forward to seeing experimentation with CM Tapu Fini, but the sets we've seen so far have been quite cool. I'll attach this replay because I remember it as Fini showing its worth.

:SV/Slowking: B -> A-
This is obviously a freebie nom with Slowbro rising, but I'm quite a big fan of what Slowking brings atm. I don't think it's best to go PhysDef and attempt to replicate Slowking's spot on teams, you still take too much from stuff like Mega Aerodactyl for it to work out. I run mostly SpDef, which allows it to take hits from stuff like Mega Latias, Mega Gardevoir, Goodra-Hisui, and Enamorus. Big fan of that defensive profile, I'm enjoying using Slowking a lot right now. It also fills the Slowbro role of stuffing Celesteela forever, and does it even better vs Air Slash variants. The only thing holding it back from being even higher than A- in my eyes is time, I'd like to see more examples of it being successful before putting it too high.

I've got a ton of smaller differences in my VR that went unmentioned here, since I tried to focus on the bigger gaps. I'm always happy to discuss them on disc or whatever but I'm too lazy to go over everything in this post. This is more of a post about general meta shifts than specific pokemon I have thoughts on, so there's a lot more to discuss about the details of the VR. Here's the important part of my personal VR (I really don't care about the bottom of the VR these mons all suck anyway).

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VR Update time! Now with friends for Celesteela in A+!

:goodra-hisui: A -> A+
:gardevoir-mega: A- -> A
:hippowdon: A- -> A
:serperior: A- -> A - While Hoodra ruins offensive sets day, it is still one of the best utillity mons in the tier right now, boasting Defog, Glare support and potentially Knock Off while checking everything a grass needs to check.
:swampert: A- -> A+
:venusaur-mega: A- -> A
:victini: A- -> A - A solid MGarde stopgap and a threatening enough attacker and pivot. Special sets can catch teams expecting physical Victini off guard.
:blacephalon: B+ -> A-
:clefable: B+ -> A- - Good Util mon, solid CM wincon and one of the better fighting checks in the tier.
:hydreigon: B+ -> A - Scarf is one of the tier's best speed control options and breaker sets (NP Z, Specs and Life Orb) are threatening in their own right. It also crucially checks Blacephalon.
:slowking: B -> B+
:tapu fini: B -> A- - Great at forcing progress via Taunt + Nature's Madness while providing a lot of role compression Clefable can't (e.g Defog, checking Keldeo and not getting blasted by Hydreigon Flash Cannon) at the cost of not having rocks and reliable recovery.
:mew: B- -> B - Dragon Dance sets (usually Flare Blitz / Power Whip / Triple Axel with either Expert Belt or a Z crystal) have been proven to be scary wincons.
:glimmora: C+ -> B- -> Power Beam sets have had good results in tournaments, able to threaten most traditional rock checks with coverage.
:mamoswine: C -> C+
:quaquaval: C -> C+
:sinistcha: C -> B - Scary sweeper, ghost z sets can also punch holes.

:aegislash: S- -> A+ - While still a fearsome breaker, the meta has generally adapted to SD sets to the point where it will rarely be sweeping anymore, and that was its flagship set that got it into S- before.
:hydrapple: A -> A-
:rotom-wash: A -> A- - There are better waters and MAero checks now.
:bisharp: A- -> B+
:ursaluna: A- -> B+
:garganacl: B+ -> B-
:thundurus: B+ -> B
:iron boulder: B -> B- - Iron Fraud. The trend of every subsequent meta shift somehow making this worse continues.
:jirachi: B- -> C+
:salamence: B- -> C

:empoleon: UR -> C - Checks MGarde and has Flip Turn and Roost with some other util stuff it can do.
:primarina: UR -> C+ - Specs Keldeo but in exchange for being slower it nukes most of Keldeo's conventional switchins with STABs alone and can coverage the ones that it doesn't.
:zarude: UR -> C+ - CB sets are strong and SD sets can be scary thanks to its good speed tier and solid STABs. There's still probably room for further experimentation here.

OP will be updated soon. EDIT: It has now been updated.

Link to spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XeloKuOP5k6vv6I0ENdD7J-C0tPFHWkmvc28dOetfWc/edit?usp=sharing
 
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We have decided to do a VR update following NDPL!

:slowbro:: New -> A+
:manectric-mega:: UR -> B-
:tapu-bulu:: UR -> B
:suicune:: UR -> B
:archaludon:: UR -> B-
:weezing-galar:: UR -> C+
:arcanine-hisui:: UR -> C+
:iron-leaves:: UR -> C+
:sandy-shocks:: UR -> C+
:slither-wing:: UR -> C
:mandibuzz:: UR -> C
:gengar:: UR -> C
:arctozolt:: UR -> C

:aegislash:: A+ -> S-
:buzzwole:: A -> A+
:serperior:: A -> A+
:victini:: A -> A+
:latias-mega:: A- -> A
:tapu-fini:: A- -> A
:enamorus:: B+ -> A
:zeraora:: B+ -> A-
:amoonguss:: B -> B+
:mew:: B -> B+
:thundurus:: B -> B+
:altaria-mega:: C+ -> B
:salamence:: C -> B-
:quagsire:: C -> B-

:keldeo:: A -> A-
:mienshao:: A- -> B+
:rotom-wash:: A- -> B+
:moltres-galar:: B+ -> B
:slowking:: B+ -> B
:ursaluna:: B+ -> B
:blissey:: B -> B-
:lokix:: B -> B-
:sinistcha:: B -> B-
:alakazam:: C+ -> UR
:azumarill:: C+ -> UR
:jirachi:: C+ -> UR
:mamoswine:: C+ -> C
:primarina:: C+ -> C
:quaquaval:: C+ -> UR
:zarude:: C+ -> UR
:empoleon:: C -> UR
:gastrodon:: C -> UR

The OP will be updated soon after this post goes up. EDIT: The OP has now been updated

Spreadsheet link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HxxJURO_uStJveSCNxHGsi6jVoU2Igl0kw3bPmSECrk/edit?usp=sharing
 
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