Research Scarlet & Violet Battle Mechanics Research

I thought of another question after posting; is Ting-Lu then affected by its own Vessel of Ruin after losing it to Mold Breaker?

Mud Shot from same Ting-Lu into Skeledirge
Code: 
normally
364-272  92
186-82   104

Mold Breaker Entrainment'd away
364-262  102
170-24   crit
364-262  102
Seems the answer is no, the Vessel of Ruin effect checks which Pokemon the effect is attached to, and not for instances of "Vessel of Ruin" the Ability.
 
Hi. Interesting discussion. Links go to footage with timestamps.

Marty said:
Activate Vessel of Ruin, then remove the Ability with Mold Breaker Entrainment.
Is the Vessel of Ruin effect still active?
Click to expand...
As you've already tested, yes, the Vessel of Ruin effect remains active after Ting-Lu is hit by Mold Breaker Entrainment.

Marty said:
Yes? If Ting-Lu (or whatever) is then switched out, does the effect end?
Click to expand...
When the Ting-Lu hit by Mold Breaker Entrainment leaves the field, Vessel of Ruin's effect seems to fade as normal. Shown in this footage, with stats on-screen. Glimmora switching into the affected Ting-Lu's place took regular damage (370-315 55) from opposing Glimmora's Hyper Voice, an impossible damage roll if Vessel of Ruin were active.

Marty said:
Yes? Please also try this with any other Ruin Ability.
Click to expand...
Tested with Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Ember vs. Mold Breaker Hawlucha

Code: 
normally:
360-251   109
251-127   124

after Mold Breaker Entrainment removes Beads of Ruin:
307-181   126
360-249   111

Similarly to Vessel of Ruin, the effects of Beads of Ruin appeared to fade after Chi-Yu left the field despite it being hit by Mold Breaker Entrainment - Glimmora dealt 133 (354-221) Hyper Voice damage to Hawlucha before the above sequence and 123 (333-210) Hyper Voice damage to Hawlucha after the above sequence, both times being in normal damage range.

If no one else gets around to it first, I'll try to check Tablets of Ruin while I test some of the other requests soon. I sometimes have trouble with damage rolls historically due to absentmindedness, so anyone inclined is encouraged to double check the linked footage. Hope this helps.
 
DarkFE said:
When the Ting-Lu hit by Mold Breaker Entrainment leaves the field, Vessel of Ruin's effect seems to fade as normal.
Click to expand...
Before you spend your whole day testing all my questions, I think this sentence clarifies everything. :blobthinking:

I guess I just have one question: If a Ting-Lu switches into the field first, and then a second Ting-Lu switches in and has its ability "Entrained", is the second Ting-Lu affected by the first one's ability?
Marty said:
Seems the answer is no, the Vessel of Ruin effect checks which Pokemon the effect is attached to, and not for instances of "Vessel of Ruin" the Ability.
Click to expand...
Basically, I'd like to check whether Ting-Lu is still immune to Vessel of Ruin because it has Vessel of Ruin as an ability (even if suppressed), or if it's because the effect was set by itself.

I guess another test would be to have a second Ting-Lu enter the field after the first one was "Entrained".

Edit: What if Ting-Lu was not "Entrained" and is dragged out by a Mold Breaker Pokémon. Does the effect fade?
 
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Another cool related interaction: usually, Cherrim-Sunshine reverts to its regular form if its ability is changed or suppressed (this isn't currently implemented, but I just submitted a fix). However, if Cherrim-Sunshine is hit by Mold Breaker Entrainment, it stays in its Sunshine form. This doesn’t affect Castform, because Forecast doesn’t have the breakable flag.
 
Unlike Fling, where both the attacker and the target activate Cud Chew, with Bug Bite neither the attacker nor the target activate it.
I don't have footage because I'd have to record it on my cellphone and upload it, and I'm too lazy because I spent too much time testing Cud Chew mechanics to have been recording the whole process.

Edit: another mechanic I discovered in SS (don’t kill me Marty, I was testing Neutralizing Gas interactions :psycry:) if Gorilla Tactics is suppressed, the locked move gets reset. So after Neutralizing Gas leaves the field, Darmanitan is no longer locked into the move it chose before Neutralizing Gas entered the field.
From what I tested, all ability End events trigger when Neutralizing Gas enters the field, except for abilities that have specific conditions attached, such as Cud Chew, Flash Fire, Protosynthesis, Quark Drive and Unburden. In these cases, Neutralizing Gas simply suspends the conditions instead of removing them. The only exception is Slow Start.

Edit2: Also regarding Cud Chew: it activates its effect exactly on the second residual. So, if Neutralizing Gas enters the field X residuals after Cud Chew eats an item, then when Neutralizing Gas leaves the field, the Cud Chew Pokémon will re-activate the berry on the (2 – X)th residual.
 
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Marty said:
I was discussing the Ruin Abilities several months ago with some other people, and found that Flash Fire was implemented similarly enough to investigate. I did the following tests in Gen 5, but Flash Fire has not changed and the exact same thing should happen in SV if anyone feels like checking.
Code: 
-- Test 1 --
not activated
73, 68

activated
100, 103

after being Mold Breaker Skill Swapped away
65, 67, 66

after being Skill Swapped back while this Pokemon is still active
108, 100, 112


-- Test 2 --
Flash Fire activated, Skill Swapped away, Skill Swapped back
68
The only difference between these tests is how Flash Fire was removed. With Mold Breaker, the effect doesn't end when the Ability is lost as long as the Pokemon stays active; the effect doesn't actually do anything without having Flash Fire, but it starts working again without being activated once Flash Fire is returned.
Click to expand...
I just tested, and this happens when Mold Breaker removes Flash Fire or when Flash Fire is Skill Swapped while Neutralizing Gas is active. This behavior is currently incorrect on PS, as all End events during Neutralizing Gas are allowed.
 
Hydrametr0nice said:
I guess I just have one question: If a Ting-Lu switches into the field first, and then a second Ting-Lu switches in and has its ability "Entrained", is the second Ting-Lu affected by the first one's ability?

I guess another test would be to have a second Ting-Lu enter the field after the first one was "Entrained".
Click to expand...
Hi. I tested both cases, the first one in this footage (ignore the pointless attacks into Ting Lu for a few turns. I was distracted) and the second one in this footage. In both cases, it seems that the Mold Breaker Entrained Ting-Lu remained unaffected by the other unmodified Ting-Lu's Vessel of Ruin.

Hydrametr0nice said:
Edit: What if Ting-Lu was not "Entrained" and is dragged out by a Mold Breaker Pokémon. Does the effect fade?
Click to expand...
The Vessel of Ruin effect appears to fade as normal when forcing an activated Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu to switch out by using Mold Breaker Roar.

Hydrametr0nice said:
I just tested this: when my Chien-Pao was dragged in by a Mold Breaker Pokémon, its attack dealt non–Sword of Ruin damage. This means that the field effect created by Sword of Ruin was never activated. This raises more questions, but it’s difficult to control the battle state with just one Switch.
Click to expand...
While working on the "dragged out" case above, I also captured footage of this base "dragged in" discovery in case reference is needed for any changes in the future. For good measure, I replicated it with Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu this time.

DarkFE said:
I'll try to check Tablets of Ruin while I test some of the other requests soon.
Click to expand...
Perhaps unsurprisingly, Tablets of Ruin behaves in the same way with Mold Breaker Entrainment as the other Ruin Abilities have been shown to. The Ruin effect persists after Wo-Chien is hit by Mold Breaker Entrainment.

Again, feel free to double check the footage; I could have overlooked something. Let me know if I misunderstood or missed anything. Hope this helps.
 
DarkFE said:
Hi. I tested both cases, the first one in this footage (ignore the pointless attacks into Ting Lu for a few turns. I was distracted) and the second one in this footage. In both cases, it seems that the Mold Breaker Entrained Ting-Lu remained unaffected by the other unmodified Ting-Lu's Vessel of Ruin.


The Vessel of Ruin effect appears to fade as normal when forcing an activated Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu to switch out by using Mold Breaker Roar.


While working on the "dragged out" case above, I also captured footage of this base "dragged in" discovery in case reference is needed for any changes in the future. For good measure, I replicated it with Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu this time.


Perhaps unsurprisingly, Tablets of Ruin behaves in the same way with Mold Breaker Entrainment as the other Ruin Abilities have been shown to. The Ruin effect persists after Wo-Chien is hit by Mold Breaker Entrainment.

Again, feel free to double check the footage; I could have overlooked something. Let me know if I misunderstood or missed anything. Hope this helps.
Click to expand...
I reviewed the footage and everything checks out. Thanks a lot! :psyglad:
 
Hydrametr0nice said:
I just tested, and this happens when Mold Breaker removes Flash Fire or when Flash Fire is Skill Swapped while Neutralizing Gas is active. This behavior is currently incorrect on PS, as all End events during Neutralizing Gas are allowed.
Click to expand...
I tested something similar by using Transform instead of Skill Swap. The Flash Fire condition ended when Transform was used under Neutralizing Gas. This suggests that Transform forces abilities to end regardless of suppression, unlike Skill Swap.

I have another related question about Cud Chew. I can't test it because I can't hack a Mold Breaker Pokémon with Skill Swap. If a Pokémon with Cud Chew eats a berry and is then Skill Swapped by a Mold Breaker Pokémon, and later gets Skill Swapped back, does the berry effect activate again?

If it doesn't activate the berry, then Cud Chew's condition is definitely different from Flash Fire's.

Edit: I tested it (I’m dumb, I could have just used Skill Swap against a Mold Breaker Pokémon), and the berry didn’t activate.
 
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