Announcement UMPL V - Format Discussion Thread

[sleid]

artwork by Clem​

Hello everyone! This thread is expected to be open until manager signups. The intent of this thread is to determine the format of UMPL IV. Confirmed hosts for this tournament are goldmason, July and Dead by Daylight. Manager signups will go up August 31st with player signups being September 7th. Some useful links you may want to look over before or while reading this thread include the manager signups, player signups, and administrative decisions threads from last year.

The first thing we want to discuss is retains. Should we allow them for this year? Do we wait and allow them the following year now that people know about them being a thing? Rewarding managers who have a good draft would encourage end up leading to more competitive teams. The downside of retains are if the format of the tour changes in the future and/or rewards luck for non-returning managers, or in cases that players don't return the following year, etc.

Related to retains is the idea of franchises. This would be similar to how SPL operates with team names basically being set in stone to return year after year. What do you think of this idea?

Unofficial Metagames Farming League (UMFL) is an idea that was tossed around for this year with multiple reactions. Some believe it would be a fun way for those left out of the tournament to play while also letting drafted players play other metagames in a team tournament format. Others believe it won't be very competitive and doesn't fit well within the scope of all of the UMs. It would likely be a smaller tour with 6 starting slots and 6 teams. Do you think this is something we should try this year?

Last year we expanded to 8 teams with 10 starting slots. 10 starting slots lead to NFE and 2v2 only having 1 starter per team. Both had successful PLs and have solid followings, leading to us opening the discussion of having 12 slots with both of these metagames gaining an additional starting slot. Does this seem like a viable option to everyone? Would there be trouble filling these slots and keeping the tournament competitive?

Self-buys last year were a flat 15K rating. Should this continue to stay the same? Should they be raised? Should double self-buys cost even more money (some tournaments do 15K for 1st self-buy then 20K for second self-buy). Should they be based on difference in last tournaments record (i.e. 15K flat rate + 1K per winning difference amount, so, player went 5-2 would be 18K)?

3rd managers have been seen in a few tournaments this year after being added to SPL. Would this be something you'd like to see in this iteration?

These are discussion topics that can go in a number of different directions, even beyond what was covered in the OP - if you think you have a good idea to put forward towards a discussion started here, or even a good idea not brought up here, do bring it up!

Our overall goal is for this to be a successful tournament, and that starts by figuring out what format works the best for the community. Please be kind and courteous to leadership, hosts when they are announced, other members in the thread, and other UM tiers. Tier bashing will not be tolerated and can lead to infractions. The quickest way to get your suggestion or argument discarded is by tearing down or trashing another tier.

 

[Itchy]

3rd managers have been seen in a few tournaments this year after being added to SPL. Would this be something you'd like to see in this iteration?

I think this as an option, not a requirement, could help given the variety of metagames in this tour

idrc much about any of the other topics so

e: I lied, I care about one more. Not so sure that 2v2 can support 2 slots. It was hard to fill a single 2v2 slot in past editions and 2v2 forum activity has been absurdly low. community and most of this thread seems convinced that they can do it but I'm not. prove me wrong ig

 

[Fragments]

Pretty much just gonna regurgitate all the points I've already made in um cord

Retains - I am usually a fan of retains I think they add a cool element to tours that rewards strategic drafting the year prior, but for a tour like this I would not like to see retains personally. The um playerbase has evolved drastically over the past year and there would frankly just be too many broken retains. I know AGPL opted out of doing retains because they believed it would make teams unbalanced, for the same reason I do not think UMPL can do retains without compromising the competitive integrity of the tour.

3rd Managers - Would be in favor of this, I think it is a very low risk high reward move. There are simply too many UMs, most of which greatly differ from each other, for 2 managers to cover alone. I think tours are better the more support every manager pair can give their team. Obviously you will still likely need to supplement your team with outside support as well but again that's hard to completely cover given how many UMs there are.

Self-buys - I am personally of the opinion that whether we do 2 or 3 person manager pairs, we should only allow 1 self-buy. Most tours nowadays only allow 1 self-buy cause it's just hella scuffed to have 2 op managers sign up and get to draft themselves for much less than they're worth. I think it automatically creates an uneven playing field from the onset that is pretty hard to overcome even with good drafting. At the very least, if we were to allow 2 managers to self-buy we should do as sleid mentioned and make the second self-buy cost more (15k for the first, 18-20k for the second)

# of Starting Slots - Just make it 2 starting slots for everything. I know that concerns were thrown around about how metas like 2v2 or NFE may not be able to produce 16 "viable" players, but idt it is necessarily a bad thing for lesser known faces to get a shot. UUbers last year didn't have 16 mains but we got to see a few new people pick up the meta and they honestly did well. Also, if these communities want to grow, it makes sense to allow for more playing opportunities rather than restrict it to the same few mains everytime.

 

[Celeste]

UMFL
Provided that it looks doable based on the number of signups UMPL gets I would be very much in favour of this, an extra chance to get new players into the tour scene is always beneficial in my opinion, especially when NFE has no ladder and UUbers has incredibly low levels of ladder activity, meaning that tour opportunities are incredibly valuable to make available for players who don't get picked up. Its largely dependent on signup numbers however (especially if the number of slots does expand) but if there are enough to make it feasible I am all for it, and would be interested in managing a team, or even assisting with running it.

Self Buys
I think the suggested record based self buy pricing makes a lot of sense, if self buy prices are to be adjusted from a flat 15k that is the direction I think would be pretty effective.

Editing to agree that all 3 managers should not be able to self buy if thats the direction taken

Fully agree with Itchy on the third manager thing though, leaving it as an option but not a requirement sounds great, and if we go from 10-12 slots I think 3 manager options is a must, and I don't see any negatives for it if the slots stay at 10 asw

overall I think the things I'd most like to see is a UMFL, I think the growth that UMs has recently seen despite some rough spots across tiers recently shows that if there is enough signups it would be a hugely positive addition!

 

[crow crumbs]

Slots - I think the format last year was good and that 12 slots will deepen the siloing issue that um tours have. 3 managers would sort of alleviate this but it also might create an even more bloated and disjointed experience. It's probably worth at least experimenting and the playerbases should be able to support it but I struggle to see better reason for 12 slots than "because we can." Maybe thats good enough?

Retains/Franchises - not a fan of retroactive retains at all. okay with purchases this year being retainable next year. Strongly against locked team names due to the fact that we do not have 8 iconic umpl team names.

Self-buys - 15k flat is kinda broken. 15+20 or record-based pricing both sounds fine for 10 slots (numbers should probably be adjusted for 12).

I don't think restricting to 1 self-buy is necessary. Compared to other multiformat tours like OMPL or roa generation teamtours, very few people can consider slotting into multiple of these metas and even less should consider doing so. If almost every starting manager is just gonna plant themselves in one tier unless theres a serious critical failure, then the roster depth benefit just isn't as high as it is when self-buying might act as a toxic element.

Manager Count - Allowing 3 sounds like a positive change. Possibly don't allow all 3 managers to self-buy? Honestly just depends on the numbers. 60k for 3 self-buys in 10 slot doesn't sound like the end of the world.

 

[maybca]

Retains : I've never liked retains, I find that it brings something that would favor one team more than another from the start of the round, which I find a shame. A retain can completely change the tournament knowing that most of the time in my experience the pools to which we give retains are very badly distributed and will necessarily favor the team that reached the finals last year, however I am not 100% against it.

Self-buys : I don't think we should change personal purchases, nor add money based on records or a second, more expensive personal purchase. This has always worked well, and in any case, two $15,000 bids can quickly hamper the start of an auction. I'm also talking about this for the next topic: I think that with a third manager, all three can't self-buy. On the other hand, I'm against limiting personal purchases to a single manager.

3 managers : I was against it at first, but I think a third manager is a good thing: a better environment for the team, a scooter built with time and hours of testing for each level, and more knowledge to impart for a good tournament. It's not surprising that he's being added to the SPL; it can only be beneficial. For example last year Entro was kinda busy the whole tournament so I did the scoot alone it was ok but after week5 I had family problems so after that I was more busy and I could have give more but I didn’t want to think about this website . So a third manager would be really really great.

12 Slots ? : 12 slots is perhaps the best possible addition. I never really understood why we discriminate against all this because the ladder is inactive, the 2v2 community is for a second slot and 16 good players + support are findable I think. I say 2v2 because a tournament with 11 slots is impossible. Except that the sv nfe is experiencing a peak of activity that I have never seen before, there are more than 25 good players + builder available and a stable and easy tier for others to learn, as a former council, I greatly support this action mainly thanks to an NFEPL which revealed huge nuggets and talents.


Edit : I forgot to mention for the second self buy you can put it higher but 20k for the second self buy would be too much at 17.5 or 18 is enough, records don’t show anything maybe you had the perfect support for your last year and be thrash this year we can’t fix a price due to a player’s record

Second edit : i’m pretty sure there will not be enough player for umfl, Execpt if we do something like player who played umpl have to change their tier played to fill the lack of players but it’s a terrible idea for a farmer league

 

[FishyRoads]

Not going to dive much in as i'd juet be repeating other people's points, although i am in massive favour of 3 managers and 12 slot.

I am a little skeptical of UMFL, it would be awesome if pulled off although most players who i'd expect to see playing in UMFL are most likely going to be in UMPL doing other tiers, especially the 2v2/1v1 dynamics of pool shallowing make me a little worried.

 

[Shadow079]

Retains + Franchises
Feel like these are quite connected so imma put the together. For retains I think they would be a fine edition in future, just not for this iteration of UMPL. I don't ant super solid reasoning behind this, mostly just vibes, but I do think that for this type of multi-iteration stuff that their is notice before it comes into effect, and considering that retains being added this iteration would link to the previous iteration such a notice doesn't exist. For franchises pretty similar, but I do think that the argument is less wishy-washy. I feel that if franchises are to be added it should be when there is already a large pool of multi-iteration UMPL franchises (could argue that this pool of franchises should only be sucessful ones asw but i dont rly mind) which can be made permanent, which is a criteria I don't think is currently fufilled.

Unofficial Metagames Farming League (UMFL)
I don't mind the idea of a farm league, but I do disagree with the proposed 6 slot 6 team format currently proposed. A farm league should be about giving as much oppurtunity possible for newer or lesser known players to spotlight themselves as prospects, and such a small league runs opposite to this objective. This is further compounded by it being a near guarentee that many slots will be taken by UMPL players in other formats, further limiting oppurtunity of newer and lesser-known players. If UMFL was to become a reality I'd hope that it would have an equal number of slots to UMPL at a minimum. While NUFL isn't a perfect comparison to a potential UMFL, as the slots differ by gen rather than tier, I think it can otherwise be a great blueprint as another new FL tour which was highly sucessful, and notably featured even more slots than the PL.

12 slots
I think this is a move with only upside in nearly all realities. NFE as a community has seen large growth in recent times, making them deserving of a second slot, and when every other UM has a second slot it feels fair for 2v2 to gain a second slot in addition rather than either depriving NFE or axing another UM's second slot. While I'm not personally aware of 2v2 as a pool a number of people in the community have made reassurances that it can sustain a second slot and I don't see reason to doubt them.

Self-buys
I think the 15k 20k system (exact numbers can be fiddled with, espec in the case of 12 slots, but the idea of a more expensive cost for the second self-buy is good) is the best path here, while I reckon a self-buy forumla could potentially work it can be backfire due to fluke peformances in the previous season and its also just generally contentious making it not a super attractive option.

3rd managers
I think this is a great idea. 3 managers gives more oppurtunity for people to manage, helps teams cover the vast range of UMs and their communities more easily, and makes the burden lighter on those actually managing. I think it goes without saying that a 3rd should by no means be compulsory, but the option for manager pairs to add a third or for manager trios to form is great change, and one that has been seen plenty across team tours in recent times, in which its just been a positive for those who wish to do so.

 

[Miyoko]

Hi! Miyoko here. I would like to express my thoughts on the current formatting and new ideas that are going to be implemented. From my managership experience of UMBD and playing last year's UMPL, I would like to make this event even more fun and more approachable for newcomers who are rising stars of the event. Here are my thoughts :-

Retains :-
Honestly I am not a big fan of the idea of creating retains. Mainly because then the players who have had the beginning of their journey last year but by now, are legends of the tier would be retained at prices much lower than what they deserve, and also partially because it only benefits a few teams while others suffer a loss. However, I do suggest that if there are retains, then that should be 3 retains maximum, with manager self buy and Retains combined. What is mean is that it should be -
1. 3 managers self buys + 0 retains
2. 2 manager self buys + 1 retains
3. 1 manager self buy + 2 retains
4. 0 manager self buys + 3 retains
Maximum limit being 3 and minimum limit being 0
And the price format of retains should be just simply 3k + the last year's price, instead of making it based on their UMPL records from last year. It makes calculating prices easier and comfortable to pre-plan stuff once manger are revealed.

Self Buys :-
Basically the same thing I mentioned above. And I am 100% in favour of this idea. Manager self buys should be a thing in this tour. I would say that having 3 manager self buys would be best however many might suggest to make it 2 manager self buys out of 3. I am in favour of both the ideas but I prefer having 3 manager self buys with the format I mentioned already -
1. 3 managers self buys + 0 retains
2. 2 manager self buys + 1 retains
3. 1 manager self buy + 2 retains
4. 0 manager self buys + 3 retains
Self buys should also be 15k each managers. Not like 15k first 20k second. I have never been a fan of that format tbh. If all managers want to self buy (all 3), then make it 50k instead of 45k, should be fine.

Franchises :-
I am against the idea of creating franchises. It blocks the creativity of naming a team in a tournament. And rebranding of franchise is even a worse idea because the glory of the old franchise would not longer exist then. Instead let's keep it how it is, where the managers can keep the team names they prefer in accordance with the Smogon rules and regulations so that he name doesn't turn out to be offensive. Having franchise might help in the retention process but I don't think other than that it would be of any use. So let's keep the old formatting for this, makes the tournament more fun and attention-catchy with newer and fun team names

UMFL :-
UMFL would be a really fun event for those who don't get selected in UMPL, in this way we create a place where people can show their skills and prove themselves which they were not able to do in PL. This would also help in future umpl where the people who perform good in FL can get a chance. I also want to add a few things abt UMFL here. These are just some suggestions that I would like to share to make this even more fun -

1. To add a free slot for the best performer(s) of UMFL. I suggest UMFL player signups to be started as soon as UMPL draft end, on the same day. In this way we don't delay in starting FL and in middle we should host a midseason draft, where good performers of UMFL should be given a chance to get in PL to prove the same in PL
2. To give the UMFL winning team free chance in next UMPL. This idea night seem a bit vague but its like the football clubs basically. The winning team of FL should be guaranteed in PL as managers and retains (if added, tho I don't suggest adding so)
3. To host a rising stars event every year. In this event, where the top performers would be given a shoutouts and advertised before PL. Rest on the managers if they want them or not.
4. To add UM tryouts. This was already done for oraspl and bwpl by the ORAS cord and BW cord so shoutouts to those communities. Here, there will be room events hosted and the winners of the events would be advertised by the tour hosts.

12 Slots :-
Of course yes. 12 Slots would be much more fun than 10 slots. Increasing the credits to 150k with 3 subs and 12 players sounds like a really good idea to me. This makes the UM tiers more expressible. I also sugest the last 2 tiers just being Flex Slots like it was in UMBD. Not much to say but yea, for the motion

3rd managers :-
Generally I think this is a really good idea because 3 managers makes it much more approachable, in all ways. It helps during auctions because 1 of the 3 managers being online during the draft solves all the issues. It also makes line-up submission easier every week since when one is busy other can do it. So yea I am in favour of the idea.

Final conclusion:-
In favour of - 3 managers, Manager Self buys, UMFL, 12 slots
Not a fan of - Retains, Franchises
With that being said, I would end this with a final conclusion. I think the current discussion being up is going to help the tour improve a lot with new approaches and formats. I really want to see new players performing to their level best. Looking forward to enjoying this tour. Thank you!

 

[PandaDoux]

Franchises
I hate the idea, let people create their own franchises and let teams become big names naturally, not being able to choose my team name would honestly make me not want to manage, i also don't get the point if the team is gonna be completely different from one year to another anyway, just let it be a different team.

12 Slots
I support this. We have 6 UMs it would make sense to have 2 of each if they can support it, and idk about 2v2, but NFE will be able to get 16 good players for sure. I'm very close to the NFE Community, i'm very invested in it, yet i never once said that NFE was deserving a 2nd slot in UMPL in the past, in fact it actually was the opposite, i knew when NFE wouldn't be able to fill 2 slots successfully and i was not afraid to admit it (last year's post).
However now i can confidently say that NFE will be able to get more than 16 good players/builders. NFE's community has massively grown since last year, especially in the recent months, and we would heavily benefit from getting a 2nd slot in UMPL so new faces could have an opportunity to play in the most competitive UM tournament of the year. NFE's meta has also massively changed since last year and we have what seems to be a balanced and stable meta, which arguably was not the case since DLC came out.
I'm heavily against flex slots as the last 2 slots, iirc it received a lot of backlash during and after UMBD in UM Discord and i would be disappointed to see 3 ZU/AG/UUbers/1v1 a week but only 1 NFE when we deserve a shot for a 2nd slot this year.

I encourage people invested in 2v2 to speak up about a 2nd 2v2 slot (whether you'd support it or not), i think everyone is interested in knowing if 2v2 will be able to have a competitive 2nd pool or if 2v2 will struggle to fill it.

 

[Celeste]

Unofficial Metagames Farming League (UMFL)
I don't mind the idea of a farm league, but I do disagree with the proposed 6 slot 6 team format currently proposed. A farm league should be about giving as much oppurtunity possible for newer or lesser known players to spotlight themselves as prospects, and such a small league runs opposite to this objective. This is further compounded by it being a near guarentee that many slots will be taken by UMPL players in other formats, further limiting oppurtunity of newer and lesser-known players. If UMFL was to become a reality I'd hope that it would have an equal number of slots to UMPL at a minimum. While NUFL isn't a perfect comparison to a potential UMFL, as the slots differ by gen rather than tier, I think it can otherwise be a great blueprint as another new FL tour which was highly sucessful, and notably featured even more slots than the PL.

Just want to touch on this, because I think the reason a 6 slot format was suggested was due to potential sign up numbers limiting how big a UMFL could actually be. The last UMPL had iirc just over 200 signups, which is not enough to field enough players for an equal sized UMFL. When Draft started its farm league, it was after almost 400 sign ups for DCL where DFL had a 6 team 6 slot system, expanding to 8 teams with 10 slots the next year after it was proven to be a success. While I would love for a UMFL to be as big as possible, I also don't see a harm in basically an adaptive system. If we get enough signups to make a bigger tournament happen then we should do it, but as long as there are enough players for a 6 team 6 slot tour I believe it should absolutely be done.

 

[a fairy]

speaking as myself with low effort

lets start with the standalone things

franchises - i like franchises. i intend to sign up again as manager and retain the same team name i had before. i think that an ubers-style "if you win the tour your name sticks around" type of thing could work well, but it's one of those "why plant a tree now with no benefit to me" questions - sure it'd be great 4-5 years from now when we have notable team names with investment and history, but on year one there's a bit of like, why do this. i'd like to see this but frankly what it adds to a tournament is not a huge deal in benefit and if folks are not on board for whatever reason, we realistically don't lose a ton not having it

umfl - i want to reserve judgment on this one. with each passing day thinking on it i grow unconvinced we have the size for a umfl this year, though perhaps i will be proven wrong. in my head, umfl is a "if you are in umpl you cant play" 6x6 tour, but it seems like some folks want a "you cant play your main" 6x12 or even 8x12 which if i am totally honest i for sure do not think works. i would want a umfl to focus on the ~20th best player of any given tier (accounting for 12 starters and one sub per team, ish) rather than "okay let's see baddy and shadow and entro and rasche play their backup tier" - but that's personal preference. what's lovely is that we can see how signups go before deciding whether or not to do a UMFL - sorry miyoko i really do not agree with the idea of running them exactly concurrently.

and now let's move to the group of things that i personally believe will all impact one another like dominoes, starting with

12 slots - can we do this? i'd quite like to do this, personally. my biggest concern is whether 2v2 can successfully meet the challenge, i know there are a folk or few from 2v2 doubles who have serious and legitimate concerns about it, but to be honest, we'll never know unless we try, right? i think that it is supremely unfair that while we still exist with only 6 UMs that some are given advance preference for other slots and some are flatly kept at 1. i recognize that say, 1v1 has a larger active playerbase than 2v2 doubles, but like, nfe last year nearly had the same number of signups as ubers uu/zu to my recollection. a little peak beyond the curtain for folks - UMs are changing, we will not be static like this forever, i see no reason to help 2v2 doubles out with an additional slot and expand their community. same with nfe, though they're further along on that pathway.

3rd manager - i'm hesitant about this. i think that it can work, though i do worry about pulling more names out of the auction potentially. i guess plenty of folks wouldnt be starter-level, i know i'm not and i intend to throw my hat in the ring. i do think that there are others like me. i think that 3rd manager has worked in a number of other places, and i think talk about um reach and knowledge is very valid, a third manager to help with logistics, auction scheduling, but just flatly "i can help you test your teams" is super helpful. like i have a 1v1 builder dump, can do ubers uu stuff, and have nfe teams to test with, but i'm not super knowledgeable and not even a good test partner in some of these formats. i can only imagine what, say, (to use a umbd example) a flampoke+bern duo could help their AG player with, yknow?

retains - im a retains fan. no, it's not because 11k kaif, you can see my draft convos advocating for retains even when i had no skin in the game. i think they add to legacy, provide managers assistance with their draft planning, make the player signups phase more exciting, etc. however, i certainly do not think it is mandatory, and i think that if we don't go with it, that'd be fine too. i know retains are controversial, some communities hate em others can't live without em. i do think there is value in "retains should come with a one year warning", so maybe we just go, assuming UMPL doesnt look drastically different somehow next year, expect retains then?

self-buys - this should only really need to change if either we lock in 3rd manager or retains. if neither are accepted, then we don't need to do anything here. if we do have 3rd manager or retains, it should be a max of 3 pre-auction purchases (combined retains and self-buys). i can see arguments for increasing the costs of the second purchase in a world where we expand slots or whatever - something like 15k first purchase 20k second purchase makes more sense than me than a flat 17.5k or whatever, but frankly i think the only way you can go wrong is by instituting a formula. i hate manager self-buy formulas, don't recommend them at all.

in short:
franchises - i like it, i dont intend to push for it
umfpl: not enough info yet, i'm leaving it up to the community whether i back it
12 slots: - i'm only advocating it if the 2v2 doubles community feels able to meet the need but that has been my understanding so far
3rd manager - i have concerns but i really do not care
self-buys - dependant on the above for the most part but if folks want changes i support it

 

[a fairy]

ok now i want to ping some folks, sorry if you don't care i just want more folks who do care giving thoughts on the topics brought up! i am pinging umbd and umpl managers who have yet to post, as well as 2v2 and nfe leadership (specifically for the slot increase stuff) who have yet to post (their own thoughts not just the op :P hi sleid)

managers: Baddy bern BloodAce Cam Concept Despacito87 emoxu9 entrocefalo FlamPoke Frito Hugo Imperial IoSonoNeon Jeza.p MirrorSaMa ojr Plague Poosh_i Rasche Skyiew temp zastra

2v2 council: Kry yuki Morgan Kaif Blanched
nfe council: 5Dots Dragonillis Mirbro sleid Stareal

 

[Hugo]

Note: I haven't proof read any of this and I just came back after a long day so im sure its full of grammer and writing mistakes

Retains & Franchises: I am all for retains. I feel that retains overall reward trying to find hidden gems and giving new but promising players a shot, which I think is important and adds another insentive to help your players since you might want to retain them for the next time you manage. In terms of franchises, im for the idea of having more focus on the team name and identity of a team, I think its a fun aspect of team tours and might also make watching and supporting your favourite UMPL team more fun, im however against the idea that those teams/names are set in stone for several reasons. First of all, I don't like the idea that people can't create their own team, their own logo and own team identity, give people that freedom, its half the fun of managing anyways. Second, I don't like the idea of people taking some elses their team. For example the DDJs does to both Despacito and me really feel like our own thing, when we want to manage together for another tour we always sign up as the DDJs, I really wouldn't like it if someone else all of a sudden would run of with our name and logo, maybe its a bit childish but still, to me its my team. Id say the way to combine retains and no set in stone teams would be to just do it by slot, for example, the DDJs are in slot 3 and next year we don't participate, then the new team in slot 3 can retain our players from last year, so they take over the players but not the team.

UMFL: I assume that would be the farm league just like the OMs have, incase thats it im hugely in favour. I have thought about this concept a lot in the past few months and I think it would be great. I think it would not only make tournaments more accessible to newer players but also give managers a pool to scout from for the next year, I personally really like the idea of smaller and bigger tournaments where you as the player can work your way up. I also think because it would expend the tournament crowd and player base it would bring some more attention to UMPL which would be really cool.

12 slots: I don't have a strong opinion on this nor do I know if its possible or not. I would say if the player base is up to it in terms of both quantity and quality then yeah for sure but if not then ofcourse not, you could also perhaps make the final decision somewhere half way or 3/4 way through the sign up time and then see if its possible or not, idk really.

3rd manager: I also don't have a very strong opinion on this but for what its worth, I think it should be an option, not a requirement. I can imagne that for something like UMPL its appriciated though, lots of tiers and not all managers know those tiers very well (me for example), so it could be nice to get an extra pair of eyes on board to help patch those knowledge gaps up.

self-buys: I assume this has mostly to do with the 3rd manager idea, again I don't have a strong opinion on this but id say that you could either limit the self buys to 2 per team and call it a day or otherwise make a selfbuy more expensive but I am more in favour to limit them instead.

Hope this was of some value :) thanks for @ me btw a fairy

 

[Dragonillis]

Good evening,
Here's my opinion on these few ideas before the UMPL :

3rd managers : I also highly favorite about this idea, as Fragments said, we have 6 very different formats during this teamtour, and having a 3rd manager about a good draftplan and helping this team will be great. Also having another manager with a different timezone [America/European/Asia] will be great to avoid some conflict about a (mis)schedule.
I just want to have only 2 maximum of selfbuy, not 3.

12 slots : I'm also highly favorite to increase the number of player with 2 NFE and 2 2v2 slots (and i guess having at least 18 players in your team), specially if we will have a 3rd manager.
I can't talk about the 2v2 community, but the current edition of NFEPL bring a lot of players and some news players, this tournament was the occasion to discover some player, and i'm sure they can also shine for the next UMPL.

Also, if we need to have more players, auction's budget and the selfbuy need to be higher (180k as a budget and 20k for a selfbuy ?)

Self-buys : It's depending on the number of managers and slots. If we keep 2 managers and 10 slots, I don't think we need to change anything, however, if we change to 3 managers + 12 slots, as I said above, I prefer to have :
- 2 selfbuy as a manager, not 3
- Increase the auction budget from 150k to 180k.
- Increase the cost of selfbuy to 15k to 20k.

Retains : I'm not a big fan of this concept, and my opinion hasn't changed for this UMPL, but maybe this Miyoko's idea can be a good compromise ?

1. 3 managers self buys + 0 retains
2. 2 manager self buys + 1 retains
3. 1 manager self buy + 2 retains
4. 0 manager self buys + 3 retains

Even though I have my opinion, I don't have a concise idea of the best decision on this subject.
Anyway, I'm not hosting this UMPL, I will just enjoy as a player.

Franchises : Idk how it works and if it was a success, but having a franchise when you have a lot of different format and with a lot of different communities doesn't look like a great idea to me.

Unofficial Metagames Farming League (UMFL) : It depends on the number of registrations for this UMPL. But overall I'm a big fan of Farming league, with only 6 slots (or 8, with 1 flex slot per team ?), if we have a lot of players, I would love to follow this first edition of UMFL !

 

[lost heros]

didnt read thread. Didn't participate in UMPL last year. Played in UMBD this year.

3rd managers: obvious yes from me. Teams should definitely be allowed to have 3 managers, especially considering the variety and uniqueness of each tier involved

Retains and Franchises: I'm neutral on this. I don't love retains, but I can definitely see the appeal of it. Franchises only really make sense if there's some continuous community year after year. I really dislike random people picking up a franchise they have no association with. I'd much rather they be allowed and encouraged to make their own team with their own identity.

12 slots: In favor. NFE and 2v2 had successful PLs. I see no reason their slots should be limited to 1. Plus only 1 slot on the team can be very isolating if no one else really knows the tier. I think even if some teams buy 1 2v2 player and 1 clicker who played a little bit of VGC in the past that's more valuable to the 2v2 player than not.

Self-buys: I would advise against a formula. It's just absurdly difficult to do right and likely just won't work. I would probably recommend doing something more so where each manager you buy gets a little more expensive with a baseline of around 12-15k. ie: 12k for 1, 30k for 2, 52k for all 3. (random numbers please put more thought in to the exacts)

 

[entrocefalo]

I think main idea have been covered so my summary is:
ok for 3rd manager
no retains
ok self-buys max 2
10 slots (findin 2x player for 2v2 and NFE might not be as easy as it seems)

 

[MirrorSaMa]

Thank you for your message and trust! Let me share my thoughts. Please forgive any offense or errors!
Retention/Franchise.
I disagree with both points. Obviously, this year's UMPL will likely be different than last year's. Therefore, coaches' plans should adjust accordingly. Locking certain players into specific teams based on last year's rules would be unfair to this year's coaches and could potentially widen the gap between teams.
Unofficial Metagame Farming League (UMFL)
I imagine organizing a team tour requires a lot of effort. I'll leave that aside for now, and discuss the successful UMFL tour.
With another team touring after the UMPL and UMBD, the UMFL clearly provides more opportunities for more players. This will greatly increase activity at all levels of the UM and help discover new players. Sometimes, new players lack opportunity, not skill, or simply lack competition experience. However, the limited number of slots in the UMPL makes the UMFL a good option.
12 Slots
The increase in the number of slots gives players more opportunities. Driven by the desire to win, more players will participate and learn about these new slots, thereby promoting the development of corresponding tiers.
Self-buy
If the number of roster spots remains the same as last year, I don't think it's necessary to raise prices. However, if the new rules mandate a 12-slot roster, prices will need to increase to accommodate the additional funding. Furthermore, if a team has three managers, setting a maximum number of players is also reasonable. Otherwise, experienced managers will be offered lower prices, which will naturally lead to an imbalance in team strength.
Third Manager
12 slots require managers to invest more energy and time, so adding a manager is a good option. Some tournaments on the forum have adopted this approach and achieved good results. However, will this draw away some excellent players to adapt to the increase in managers and prevent them from participating in specific games (due to self-purchase restrictions), thereby affecting the quality of games in certain tiers? Or will it attract players who are not familiar with UM but have management experience? I am on the sidelines. Perhaps it depends on the collective situation of players in the specific UM community.

 

[FlamPoke]

I think last UMPL was great in terms of the format;

Retains in a setting like this is probably bad, but I do like franchises overall and you can't really have one without the other in my opinion so I am indifferent
Farm league? I really doubt enough players would sign up but idk people like to play tiers they normally wouldn't so couldn't hurt to maybe do like 4x10 or 6x10 or something
I don't see a reason to extend beyond the 8x10 unless signups go through the roof for NFE and 2v2 but I think 10 slots is great for tours like this
A third manager is whatever, but definitely limit to two self-buys otherwise you're getting weird super teams

 

[Stareal]

I have no opinion on retains and umfl
I like 3 managers, just make it optional with only 2 managers allowed to self buy.

In my view, if there are to be franchises set in stone, firstly it needs to be optional if you want to use that franchise and there should be reasons for why there are there are franchises set. The only 2 reasons on how there can be reason for a franchise is how spl and scl have custom avatars for everyone in the tour and the merch that anyone is able to buy. These are both based around the franchises of the tournament, wbviously umpl is not going to be a tour where where every player in the tour gets a custom avatar, since its not an official tour, or anywhere close to the notoriety that SPL / SCL has around it. The merch on the other hand could realistcally come to fruition with enough support and people wanting to actually buy the said merch.

I do not follow UM's outside of NFE so I can't really have an opinion on for the other tiers regarding 2 slots each, but NFE having 2 slots is a good idea. I have seen growth in the NFE playerbase so I see no reason to not have 2 slots for NFE.

Regarding self buys, in my opinion, this would only need to be changed if 3 managers are to be allowed to manage 1 team. 3 managers being able to selfbuy worries me how this can cause a team to have a much easier time than others during the draft phase, since having 3 players already locked into you're draft can give an unfair advantage towards those who only have 2 managers that are able to selfbuy. This could be prevented through only allowing 1 or 2 managers being able to self buy.

 

[Mirbro]

Hi,

Retention/Franchise.
I generally like retentions because of the idea of building up franchises. But this is kind of personal, I can understand the point of generating teams from scratch, which showcases the skill of drafting properly.

Unofficial Metagame Farming League (UMFL)
I have a lemma: the more, the better. However, this only applies if we have enough players and interest. I am not updated and not following how is that, but, from my perspective and bias, I believe there should be enough for ZU, not sure for NFE.

12 Slots
I love it, with so many different tiers. However, this needs to be balanced with UMFL: the more players here, the less number of players available for UMFL. Just balance it.

Self-buy
Yes, but balancing with the number of players, the total budget, and the retains. I would say that a total number of 3 between retains and self-buys if 12 slots, 2 if the total number is 10.

Third Manager
I believe that has been a success in most of the tours that have already implemented it. If the idea is expanding the tour with 12 slots and UMFL, the more managers, the better. Imo, we want as much people as we can to participate, improving in that way the overall experience. However, with only 2 self-buys at max and only if there are enough players for all the slots, i.e., without comprimising the quality of the tournament.

I apologize for being short, but I am busy and I did not want to miss the chance to say my opinion

 

[Despacito87]

My highly anticipated thoughts:
Retains: i think retains are interesting and may lead to more competitive teams, but i just dont think they are a good fit for umpl. Managers and players often vary a lot from year to year so it just doesnt make much sense. Franchises however i would like to see, i think there are already a few good options (DDJs) and it would also make retains a more viable option.

UMFL: I think farm league has always been a good thing and it coming to UMs would be great.

12 slots: pleaaaaseeeeee add a second 2v2 slot

Self buy: 15k first/20k second seems balanced

Third manager: 2 wheels are stable, but 3 are even more stable. Do it

 

[Morgan]

1. Retains are the most garbage concept in team tour history. Full locking players out of the pool (even if the player wants to get retained) for no reason other than people want to play with whoever they drafted last year is so silly dog. It's weird in SPL it's weird here. You gotta make the draft competitive it's half the tour.

2. UMFL is a fantastic idea but prob just run it with 1 of each tier

3. Second 2v2 slot is good because 2v2 is a unique meta with interesting and compelling game flow and more people should learn/play it and also I think people need to be forced off of Iron Hands slop in CG. You may say that 2v2 will "struggle to get enough players" but like just learn the tier it's like actually fun at its core, and it's not that hard to build rn. And surely if you're a good manager, you can pickup 2 players who have participated in a double battle before.

4. Self Buys should not be locked price but should be forced to a small range of like 12-18k based on experience/prior performance

5. 3rd managers are a bad idea because the combined pool of every um player is still smaller than OU by a factor of like 10 and even SPL is barely doing them. The community just does not have enough people who SHOULD be managers, and in addition, more managers in a smaller pool is unfair because thats giving a team good builders for free regardless of if they self buy or not

 

[Blanched]

I have no strong opinions on any topic other than
12 Slots
2v2 is more than capable of fielding 16 players, even considering the playerbase overlap with 1v1. I like the symmetry and I think we should strive for equal representation of all ums whenever we can, and frankly I am a bit tired of playing the same 7 people every umpl.